Ousting Thaksin

[Bryan in Isaan]

Amarka and Plus, the two most sensible posts i've read all year.

I've rarely seen a government as active as this one in trying to make Thailand better. Not all of their policies are sound (in fact many are not fully thought through), but most of them are consistent with a desire to move the country forward. To me, any government that tries this hard deserves credit.

People on this board find every excuse to ridicule and put them down and accuse them of corruption. People don't see that this government has played a good hand in economic management, paying down the IMF loans 2 years ahead of schedule, which led to sovereign rating upgrades, allowing the finance sector to free up liquidity to reinvest, proactively clamping down on consumer credit growth, promoting growth of FDIs in key industries such as Autos and electronics, actively managing the property growth cycle, sustaining GDP growth despite the many hard hits last year, record employment rates presently, raising minimum wage levels, making inroads with China, championing regional trade and Asean growth, corporatisation of large and inefficient state agencies, finally getting the airport built, expanding urban infrastructure while managing public debt to below 2% of GDP, etc etc.

Most people here are just parroting what they hear and read in the media, and the Thai media is one of the most childish and unprofessional i have ever come across. They talk about corruption and oppression and abuse of power because scandal sells papers, not because they really have the public interests at heart.

Thaksin may be filthy rich, he may be politically shrewd, he may be autocratic, a few of his cronies may even be on the take, but i personally do not believe him to be an evil person. I'm sure that he didn't acquire his wealth by being a thug, in his business environment, he would have had to please many more people for each toe he stepped on in order to get to where he did. The truth is the Thai people want a strong leader, i would even say that due to their very forgiving/tolerant culture, they need a strong leader. But the Thai people value their freedom even more, and the threat of losing it is what the media is preying on.

The media has cooked up such a fervour of distrust and hatred that i see people ridiculing him for innocent things such as encouraging children to read. And whats wrong with announcing that you want everything to be a hub? A statement of intent is a powerful message even if it does nothing more than motivate people into thinking that they can be bigger and better than before. All i seem to hear from the mob here is cynicism and negativity. I'm glad there are still a few lonely voices here who are able to see things with reason and objectivity.

Great Post. Also, I have been wondering what it was that Thaksin is supposed to have said against or disrespectful of HM the King or royal family or whatever. I heard that charge a couple of times, but never with any examples or instances. It looks to me like Thaksin and the King have a close relationship, more so than previous PMs. In the King's speeches he sometimes gives gentle rebukes or guidance, but always seems to speak of the PM fondly. Someone tell me if I am missing something.

Bryan

[LaoPo]

Amarka and Plus, the two most sensible posts i've read all year.

I've rarely seen a government as active as this one in trying to make Thailand better. Not all of their policies are sound (in fact many are not fully thought through), but most of them are consistent with a desire to move the country forward. To me, any government that tries this hard deserves credit.

People on this board find every excuse to ridicule and put them down and accuse them of corruption. People don't see that this government has played a good hand in economic management, paying down the IMF loans 2 years ahead of schedule, which led to sovereign rating upgrades, allowing the finance sector to free up liquidity to reinvest, proactively clamping down on consumer credit growth, promoting growth of FDIs in key industries such as Autos and electronics, actively managing the property growth cycle, sustaining GDP growth despite the many hard hits last year, record employment rates presently, raising minimum wage levels, making inroads with China, championing regional trade and Asean growth, corporatisation of large and inefficient state agencies, finally getting the airport built, expanding urban infrastructure while managing public debt to below 2% of GDP, etc etc.

Most people here are just parroting what they hear and read in the media, and the Thai media is one of the most childish and unprofessional i have ever come across. They talk about corruption and oppression and abuse of power because scandal sells papers, not because they really have the public interests at heart.

Thaksin may be filthy rich, he may be politically shrewd, he may be autocratic, a few of his cronies may even be on the take, but i personally do not believe him to be an evil person. I'm sure that he didn't acquire his wealth by being a thug, in his business environment, he would have had to please many more people for each toe he stepped on in order to get to where he did. The truth is the Thai people want a strong leader, i would even say that due to their very forgiving/tolerant culture, they need a strong leader. But the Thai people value their freedom even more, and the threat of losing it is what the media is preying on.

The media has cooked up such a fervour of distrust and hatred that i see people ridiculing him for innocent things such as encouraging children to read. And whats wrong with announcing that you want everything to be a hub? A statement of intent is a powerful message even if it does nothing more than motivate people into thinking that they can be bigger and better than before. All i seem to hear from the mob here is cynicism and negativity. I'm glad there are still a few lonely voices here who are able to see things with reason and objectivity.

Great Post. Also, I have been wondering what it was that Thaksin is supposed to have said against or disrespectful of HM the King or royal family or whatever. I heard that charge a couple of times, but never with any examples or instances. It looks to me like Thaksin and the King have a close relationship, more so than previous PMs. In the King's speeches he sometimes gives gentle rebukes or guidance, but always seems to speak of the PM fondly. Someone tell me if I am missing something.

Bryan

I might be wrong but I recall that HM The King 'slapped his fingers' once and I'm not sure if that happened before, but again I might be wrong here.

But, a close relationship?

LaoPo

[Phil Conners]

Close relationship? Where on earth did you get that idea? Toxin was slapped badly in last speech, when was he ever spoken of fondly? Never, to my knowledge.

[Plus]

I didn't mean to say that Taksin is in any way a good Prime Minister. In fact I think he's crap, but that's all Thailand has got to offer.

All the "achievements" Thedude mentioned are just a spin. Some of them even went contrary to Taksin's own policies.

Somehow there's this thought of thinking that the economy grows thanks to the PM. Nonsense, the economy would grow anyway simply if people keep on going to work everyday. Did Taksin's efforts speed up the growth? He spent a lot of time and energy on non-starters like Village fund and Otop. Otop sales were only 660 mil last year. Nothing.

The economy grew on the strength of exports which Taksin mostly neglected. There's FTA with China and Australia, but also there is a trade deficit. Thailand, a country that lives on making cheap stuff and selling it all over the world, has a trade deficit?!? How did he manage that?

Privatisation is also something not to be taken as a great achievement. It gave lots of one off money to the government but more long term benefits to a group of cronies who bought state assets on the cheap.

Usually people accuse the government of selling the country, but in Taksin's case it was buying the country.

Have you noticed how everything in Thailand is about Taksin now? He singlehandedly destroyed all the institutions and replaced all the rules with "trust me, I'm a good guy". No one can fill his shoes, and the system has stopped functioning. What will happen if Taksin's not here anymore?The parlament, the judiciary, the burocrats, the people - no one can think for himself.

[sriracha john]

firefighters have been deployed around Bangkok City Hall for 24-hours security provision, in order to prevent any sabotage of important documents

while a firetruck is now stationed within the premise. The initiative arose from fears of sabotage on documents related to the construction projects. So far no incidents have occured.

firemen providing security??

firetruck standing by??

are they expecting a bonfire outside City Hall?

Edited January 24, 2006 by sriracha john

[bulmercke]

Amarka and Plus, the two most sensible posts i've read all year.

"I've rarely seen a government as active as this one in trying to make Thailand better. Not all of their policies are sound (in fact many are not fully thought through), but most of them are consistent with a desire to move the country forward. To me, any government that tries this hard deserves credit."

Right!!!!!!!

Sorry my friend, but you appear to be looking at things through rose-coloured glasses.

Thaksin, is a shrewd businessman who almost invariably doesn't miss a trick....and he doesn't give an iota about Thailand or it's people...only self enrichment of himself, his family and close associates will do.....

Edited January 24, 2006 by bulmercke

[sriracha john]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...ic=56839&st=60#

ratcatcher Today, 2006-01-24 20:21:30 Post #63

Well, now that it's finally a done deed,and the main man is as rich as Croesus, maybe we can all get on with our lives and try and ignore the Shinawatra soap opera. He says his kids decided to sell so that he can dedicate himself to the people of Thailand without being accused of conflict of interest. Bit late for that I'd say.

His daughter said she knew nothing about it a few days ago and " We should ask the big guys", the old man says the kids did it.

Just how much buffalo manure does he think the Thai people can swallow?

Can anyone tell me one good thing that this man has done for the Thai people out of the goodness of his heart and not for personal or financial gain for himself or his cronies, in the five years he has been running this country. Has any other leader of a democracy been so totallyand absolutely in control with everyone completely subservient to him and his demands and wishes.

He is lampooned in the press every day,even the Bangkok Post has few good words to say. The man is incapable of saying sorry or I apologise for.................lest he be considered weak.

His pathetic joking about the fatal plane crash at Nakhon Pathom while he was having lunch at At Samat, was in the worst possible taste yet his reaction was that it was a private comment not meant for publication. "Don't follow me into the toilet" he was reported to have said. Well that's where he would seem to belong with his attitude. Since he has lost the respect or at least support of the middle classes in Bangkok he must play Santa to the peasants who have supported the TRT.

Not much longer. The writing is on the toilet wall.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57875&hl=#

Thailand's police regularly resort to extra-judicial killings, human rights watchdogs have long been saying.

Just a couple of examples showing what's wrong with Thaksin's way of running things.

[penzman]

I'm afraid Amarka is right - there's no one better suited than Taksin to be the PM. There aren't any honest, capable people left ready to serve the country with integrity - they just don't filter through the system where only greedy ass-kissers and opportunists survive. Some people do, of course, progress on merit, but not very far - the greedy ones always beat them to the top.

Abhisit won't survive a year in the office - they'll eat him alive after they warm up appetites on Apirak as a snack first.

Chuan personally had a good image but not enough supporters to fill the cabinet posts.

Prem, Anand - they are too old to return to active politics.

He said he'd run the country like a business. Well, the store manager and the employees are constantly helping themselves to the cash drawer and doing business with your goods behind your back . You're headed for a sure disaster. Fire them all and start over again with new staff, even if you have to do this many times over. No company owner would tolerate this behaviour from it's employees.

[amarka]

hello John,

thank you for your comments again...

i guess we are just at opposite ends of the pole.

amarka

Hello John,

Hi

some interesting points...

Thank you

my comments follow yours...

I appreciate that. Mine follow yours.

amarka

hi guys...

i also dont know of any other reliable leader in thailand at this moment in time... sure Thaksin has got rich.. or should i say richer whilst he has been in power, but lets not forget the man is in his prime and would had got richer anyway... thailand needs a leader... a capitalist leader, nothing is ever perfect but in my own humble opinion he is by far the best thailand has available right now.

I didn't think Thaksin got richer, only his 20-something kids. They were the ones that got the windfall from governmental policies that benefited their, not his, business.

so when you die... will you just leave your money in the bank.. or let your kids have it ?

His kids already have the money, right? He divested all his stock assests in 1994 when he entered politics, so there is no need to leave it to them.

and this other guy sontee should be prosecuted for inciting violence. there is a democratic procedure he can follow in thailand.

I thought constitutionally-guranteed public protests and petitioning WERE democratic procedures.

i said.... and this other guy sontee should be prosecuted for inciting violence

When did he incite violence? What did he say?

i can understand why a lot of expats dont like Thaksin... and those are mostly the types the Thai government ... or any government for that matter dont want on their soil....

You're probably right about that. Can't have individuals from abroad encouraging accountability and questioning the corrupt policies of a host country. Other countries' leaders in the past didn't like them either, such as Marcos, Amin, and Noreiga. Better to have the docile, unknowing, and uncaring types.

are you now comparing Thaksin to Marcos? Amin and the likes.. come on be serious..!

Marcos declared martial law in the Philippines. Thaksin has declared martial law in Thailand. Amin attacked his detractors, Thaksin has attacked his detractors. Similar, yes?

so perhaps its time to go home or show some loyalty to the country you are a guest in.... and if you must interfere in thai politics make sure you support only the democratic avenue.

I think the best way to show loyalty to this country is precisely by getting involved in it, not running away. Thailand is a wonderful country that deserves better that what it has currently. I fully and solely support the democratic avenue to effect change. I don't recall anyone advocating un-democratic principals.

no one sadi you should run away. just use some logic. can you provide a better alternative to Thaksin? you may not advocate violence.. but this guy sontee seems to. so if you care for Thailand like you indicate you do, then you should only encourage the diplomatic avenue. i am actually of the opinion the thais dont need us ex pats to get involved.

Sonthi "seems" to advocate violence? Where? When?

I DO encourage democratic means.

amarka

[sriracha john]

hello John,

thank you for your comments again...

i guess we are just at opposite ends of the pole.

amarka

Hi Amarka,

You're very welcome.

It would certainly seem that way, but that's ok. It's what democracy is all about...

John

[Ricardo]

Hi Amarka,

Second that comment from Sriracha John.

Something would be very wrong - if we didn't have a range of varying opinions - and the freedom to express them.

One point that worries me slightly, several posters seem to feel that Thaksin is the best PM available, and therefore to be supported regardless ?

I would be worried to believe (which I don't) that a country of 60+ million people could only produce 1 person capable of filling the job. I believe in Thailand, and that there have to be many others who have the necessary education and skills, to be CEO. Although I agree that the current opposition in parliament don't seem able to capitalise on the major corruption scandals recently seen. We suffered from something similar in the UK in recent years.

A good CEO would concern himself with succession-planning, within his own party at least, and ensure a short-list of potential successors, in case something should happen to him. After all, Taksin is only human, and strokes or heart-attacks can happen to anyone, especially in a high-stress job.

The cult of the leader has, in other asian countries such as the Phillipines or Indonesia or Singapore, led away from democracy and towards dictatorship. Would there have been similar doubts expressed, five years into their rule, in the cases of those countries ? I believe YES ! So I think it IS valid to at least compare those situations , with what's happening here, in Thailand.

Only a personal opinion.

[sriracha john]

A change of venue seems to be needed:

Sanam Luang not for protests: BMA

Published on January 25, 2006

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) would not allow Sanam Luang to be used for protests, its Environment Office director Theerachai Thiansanchai said yesterday.

Instead, it would be used to inaugurate the reproduction of the sacred Buddha image Phra Phutthasothon during a nine-day event starting on Friday to mark the 60th anniversary of HM the King’s accession to the throne.

Sondhi Limthongkul said last week that he would organise a mass rally at Sanam Luang on Saturday as part of his campaign to oust the premier. But Theerachai said he had not received any such request – and if he had, he would not allow it.

“It is against the regulations. We allow only royal ceremonies or events involving tradition, culture and religion,’’ he said.

However, he admitted that if a large number of people turned up for Sondhi’s rally, the BMA would be unable to stop them.

“It will depend entirely on the police to keep security,’’ he said.

The prime minister has criticised the BMA for allocating areas of Lumpini Park to let Sondhi stage his Friday shows but claimed that the “government cannot get involved” in the latest rally.

[sriracha john]

CENSORSHIP: Sondhi TV show broadcast signal cut off

CAT Telecom yesterday cut the signal of the ASTV satellite-based TV network's live broadcast of Sondhi Limthongkul's political talk show in Hat Yai. Mr Sondhi and co-host Sarocha Porn-udomsak were explaining their plans to rescue the country during their show at the Prince of Songkhla University's conference hall when the signal was cut off, disrupting the live transmission of the programme from Hat Yai to Bangkok.

The station director, Pramen Thuk-diwatee, said they were forced to continue the broadcast via the internet.

Thaiday.Com, a firm belonging to Mr Sondhi's family, would sue those involved in cutting the transmission. The shut-down was politically motivated, he said.

State-run CAT Telecom, citing security problem, had ordered the signal cut.

PM's Office Minister Suranand Vejjajiva, who oversees the Public Relations Department, said he asked CAT Telecom to suspend the ASTV signal because the network was operating without permission. He said it was policy to strictly enforce the law in a straight forward manner.

CAT Telecom had been asked to terminate the signals of community radio stations and all cable televisions which violated the broadcasting regulations.

ASTV had also violated the law by operating without permission, he said, insisting there was no ill motive involved.

Mr Pramen argued his station had rented the signal from CAT Telecom for two years. The network was legal. He had documents to prove he paid the rental he could not understand why the signal suddenly went off the air when Mr Sondhi's talk show was being broadcast.

Mr Sondhi said CAT Telecom had followed the government's orders.

[Plus]

Taksin changed the way the country is run so that no one can do his job but he himself. That's how Thais see it, and that's how it is - try putting anyone in that position now. Who will keep TRT together? It's a one man party, they'll be at each other throats in no time. Put Democrats in the government? What about nearly 400 MPs that Democrats don't control? Are they going to retire peacefully? Senate is going to be filled with government people by June. Are they going to let democrats run the country freely?

If Taksin is gone there will be a big fight for power for many years and a big mess before the next generation establishes itself.

Like it or not TRT is also a political institution appealing to masses, much like a communist party, and it will have lots of followers forever, just like communists in Eastern Europe and Russia.

There's no easy way out - everyone will have to pay for letting Taksin get the tight grip on the country. Can't live with him, can't live without him.

[thedude]

I didn't mean to say that Taksin is in any way a good Prime Minister. In fact I think he's crap, but that's all Thailand has got to offer.

All the "achievements" Thedude mentioned are just a spin. Some of them even went contrary to Taksin's own policies.

I was recounting factual occurences and actual policies. I did not render any personal opinion in stating the economic actions taken by this government. How is that a spin?

Somehow there's this thought of thinking that the economy grows thanks to the PM. Nonsense, the economy would grow anyway simply if people keep on going to work everyday. Did Taksin's efforts speed up the growth? He spent a lot of time and energy on non-starters like Village fund and Otop. Otop sales were only 660 mil last year. Nothing.

If what you say is true, then there is no need for any economic management in the world and everything will be okay. Yeah right. I actually think OTOP is a very good idea, and consistent with HM's advice on building a self-sufficient nation. In this age of globalisation, Thailand needs to grow its indiginous industries. I agree that the management of the OTOP program can be better improved, but like i said, the very idea of it demonstrates the governments' desire to diversify industry, reduce reliance on FDIs and build up self sufficiency. How is that a bad thing?

The economy grew on the strength of exports which Taksin mostly neglected. There's FTA with China and Australia, but also there is a trade deficit. Thailand, a country that lives on making cheap stuff and selling it all over the world, has a trade deficit?!? How did he manage that?

If you read BOT's economic reports, you will instantly realise that despite a healthy growth of exports last year (15%), import growth exceeded export growth primarily due to oil prices, unless you have been living in a hole this past year, its oil prices thats been highly inflationary and causing the trade deficit. Thaksin by the way, is not the cause of high oil prices. This is also not spin, as BOT operates independently like any federal bank and its data is reliable.

Privatisation is also something not to be taken as a great achievement. It gave lots of one off money to the government but more long term benefits to a group of cronies who bought state assets on the cheap.

I said "corporatisation", not every agency that's been corporatised will be privatised. I hope you understand the difference.

Usually people accuse the government of selling the country, but in Taksin's case it was buying the country.

Have you noticed how everything in Thailand is about Taksin now? He singlehandedly destroyed all the institutions and replaced all the rules with "trust me, I'm a good guy". No one can fill his shoes, and the system has stopped functioning. What will happen if Taksin's not here anymore?The parlament, the judiciary, the burocrats, the people - no one can think for himself.

I would really like to see some data on that.

[Phil Conners]

CENSORSHIP: Sondhi TV show broadcast signal cut off

CAT Telecom yesterday cut the signal of the ASTV satellite-based TV network's live broadcast of Sondhi Limthongkul's political talk show in Hat Yai. Mr Sondhi and co-host Sarocha Porn-udomsak were explaining their plans to rescue the country during their show at the Prince of Songkhla University's conference hall when the signal was cut off, disrupting the live transmission of the programme from Hat Yai to Bangkok.

The station director, Pramen Thuk-diwatee, said they were forced to continue the broadcast via the internet.

Thaiday.Com, a firm belonging to Mr Sondhi's family, would sue those involved in cutting the transmission. The shut-down was politically motivated, he said.

State-run CAT Telecom, citing security problem, had ordered the signal cut.

PM's Office Minister Suranand Vejjajiva, who oversees the Public Relations Department, said he asked CAT Telecom to suspend the ASTV signal because the network was operating without permission. He said it was policy to strictly enforce the law in a straight forward manner.

CAT Telecom had been asked to terminate the signals of community radio stations and all cable televisions which violated the broadcasting regulations.

ASTV had also violated the law by operating without permission, he said, insisting there was no ill motive involved.

Mr Pramen argued his station had rented the signal from CAT Telecom for two years. The network was legal. He had documents to prove he paid the rental he could not understand why the signal suddenly went off the air when Mr Sondhi's talk show was being broadcast.

Mr Sondhi said CAT Telecom had followed the government's orders.

Wow, how low can you go!?!

[sriracha john]

CENSORSHIP: Sondhi TV show broadcast signal cut off

CAT Telecom yesterday cut the signal of the ASTV satellite-based TV network's live broadcast of Sondhi Limthongkul's political talk show in Hat Yai. Mr Sondhi and co-host Sarocha Porn-udomsak were explaining their plans to rescue the country during their show at the Prince of Songkhla University's conference hall when the signal was cut off, disrupting the live transmission of the programme from Hat Yai to Bangkok.

The station director, Pramen Thuk-diwatee, said they were forced to continue the broadcast via the internet.

Thaiday.Com, a firm belonging to Mr Sondhi's family, would sue those involved in cutting the transmission. The shut-down was politically motivated, he said.

State-run CAT Telecom, citing security problem, had ordered the signal cut.

PM's Office Minister Suranand Vejjajiva, who oversees the Public Relations Department, said he asked CAT Telecom to suspend the ASTV signal because the network was operating without permission. He said it was policy to strictly enforce the law in a straight forward manner.

CAT Telecom had been asked to terminate the signals of community radio stations and all cable televisions which violated the broadcasting regulations.

ASTV had also violated the law by operating without permission, he said, insisting there was no ill motive involved.

Mr Pramen argued his station had rented the signal from CAT Telecom for two years. The network was legal. He had documents to prove he paid the rental he could not understand why the signal suddenly went off the air when Mr Sondhi's talk show was being broadcast.

Mr Sondhi said CAT Telecom had followed the government's orders.

Wow, how low can you go!?!

In a project linked to the search for missing Muslim human rights lawyer Somchai Neelaphaijit, Dr Porntip will soon start taking DNA samples from 300 bodies in one Chinese cemetery in Pattani.

Somchai was abducted in March 2004 and has never been found. One police officer accused of involvement in his abduction was sentenced to four years in prison this month, with three other officers acquitted.

In the absence of evidence that Somchai had been killed, the charges were minor, leading analysts to decry the probe as half-hearted.

But shortly after the trial, Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said publicly that government officials had abducted the lawyer, and that he had been killed.

I think if you asked Somchai's widow, she'd say they can go a LOT lower...

[Butterfly]

I don't understand all this Toxin bashing. He is a crook, yes, but what other choice do we have ? they are all crooks. At least he is business and farangs friendly. If Thailand wanted a true democrat, Chuan Lee Pai would be the PM today. Unfortunately, he didn't make it and retired before he could get a chance.

How is he different from the like of Bush and Cheney who are looting American taxpayers with their full support and consent. Don't need to be an Isaan paysant to be that stupid.

[sriracha john]

Seems a fair amount of Thai die-hard belief in the PM is faltering:

Faith in PM plunges: poll

Published on January 26, 2006

More than half of the people surveyed for a poll in and around the capital believe the Shinawatra family’s sale of Shin Corp shares was not handled transparently, while more than four in five respondents said the sale would not improve Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s image with relation to conflict-of-interest suspicions. The Research Institute of Bangkok University polled 1,368 respondents across Bangkok and adjacent provinces on Tuesday regarding their feelings about the sale of Shin Corp shares.

More than 80 per cent of the respondents said they did not believe Thaksin’s assertion that it was his children as major shareholders who had decided to sell their shares so their father would no longer have to face conflict-of-interest allegations as prime minister. Only 16 per cent of respondents said they believed the premier.

Almost two-thirds of respondents (63 per cent) said a recent amendment to the telecommunications law, which almost doubles the proportion of shares foreigners can own in a business (from a maximum of 25 per cent to 49 per cent), was passed specifically to benefit Shin Corp.

Around the same number of people said they were most interested in why members of the Shinawatra family had been granted a special tax exemption on proceeds from the sale of the flagship family business. Two thirds of the respondents said they wanted to see members of the family pay taxes after the sale of Shin Corp.

Half of the respondents said they had deep reservations about the prime minister as an honest broker, while some 11 per cent said they trusted Thaksin’s integrity and decisiveness.

[Jai Dee]

SONDHI'S LED PROTESTORS HAVE BEEN URGED TO HAVE A CLEAR STANDPOINT

Thai Rak Thai Party Deputy Secretary-General PHUMTHAM VEJJAYACHAI (ภูมิธรรม เวชชยชัย) has indicated that the demonstration, which will be led by media mogul SONDHI LIMTHONGKUL (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) at the King Rama V Equestrian Statue on February 4th, should have a clear standpoint.

He said that every party should work together in solving the national problems. However, he said the stance of the protestors is still unclear, and they should know what they really want from the government.

Mr. PHUMTHAM said that this gathering has to be abided by the rule of law, and the protestors could be prosecuted if they infringe the laws.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 January 2006

[Jai Dee]

POL GEN THAMMARAK EXPRESS CONCERN OVER SONDHI'S PROTEST

Defence Minister THAMMARAK ISARANGURA NA AYUTTHAYA (ธรรมรักษ์ อิสรางกูร ณ อยุธยา) expressed his concern over the protest led by Mr. SONDHI LIMTHONGKUL (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) at the King Rama V Equestrian Statue on February 4th. He is worried that fatalities may take place during this demonstration.

He said that the risk is high because more than a hundred million people who support the government will come over Bangkok to cheer up Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to fight against the protestors. He added that the government would not like to see such disorder. He also said that any protest should be abided by the democratic regime.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 January 2006

[Plus]

I don't understand all this Toxin bashing. He is a crook, yes, but what other choice do we have ? they are all crooks. At least he is business and farangs friendly. If Thailand wanted a true democrat, Chuan Lee Pai would be the PM today. Unfortunately, he didn't make it and retired before he could get a chance.

How is he different from the like of Bush and Cheney who are looting American taxpayers with their full support and consent. Don't need to be an Isaan paysant to be that stupid.

That answers quite a few questions - is there anyone to replace Taksin, for example. If Thais don't mind being ruled by crooks, it's their business.

As for achievements - yes, the examples mentioned are facts - Otop, village fund, 30 baht scheme, yet if you look at them - Otop is a flop, its sales numbers are mostly made up from well established SMEs in the export business who qualified for Otop benefits. Actual village products developed for the this scheme sell very little.

Village fund - what's so great about it - it just a handout. You don't even hear about it anymore. 30 baht scheme is a disaster waiting to happen. Public healthcare system is on a verge of collapse with doctors running away like rats from sinking ship.

Of course countries need economic management but very often the results are "in spite of", rather than "due to". In Taksin's case he dedicated too much time and money to non-issues like the ones above.

Trade deficit - yes, oil prices were responisble, but only in part. Oil prices account only for very little in final products costs, and in overall economy.Thailand imported more than it consumes. Where did this oil go? It took half a year for the government to interevene in oil hoarding, and it was too late. Imports run away.

[Phil Conners]

I don't understand all this Toxin bashing. He is a crook, yes, but what other choice do we have ? they are all crooks. At least he is business and farangs friendly. If Thailand wanted a true democrat, Chuan Lee Pai would be the PM today. Unfortunately, he didn't make it and retired before he could get a chance.

How is he different from the like of Bush and Cheney who are looting American taxpayers with their full support and consent. Don't need to be an Isaan paysant to be that stupid.

There IS another choice, a good one even: Apisin. Seems to be a rare honest Thai politician. Yes he may be young but everybody were at some point.

Toxin is perhaps slightly worse than Bush and Cheney as the latters are sharing the spoils with all their buddies while it seems Toxin only share with his family

Edited January 26, 2006 by madsere

[bulmercke]

Taksin changed the way the country is run so that no one can do his job but he himself. That's how Thais see it, and that's how it is - try putting anyone in that position now. Who will keep TRT together? It's a one man party, they'll be at each other throats in no time. Put Democrats in the government? What about nearly 400 MPs that Democrats don't control? Are they going to retire peacefully? Senate is going to be filled with government people by June. Are they going to let democrats run the country freely?

If Taksin is gone there will be a big fight for power for many years and a big mess before the next generation establishes itself.

Like it or not TRT is also a political institution appealing to masses, much like a communist party, and it will have lots of followers forever, just like communists in Eastern Europe and Russia.

There's no easy way out - everyone will have to pay for letting Taksin get the tight grip on the country. Can't live with him, can't live without him.

"Can't live with him, can't live without him.".......well from a personal perspective, I need this guy like I need a hole in the head!

I think an issue that has been over-looked here, to an extent, is the personality and nature of Thaksin. If bullying, arrogance, hypocrisy, aggression, deceit, contempt, selfishness, lack of compassion, lack of sympathy, vitriolic attacks, lingering enmity and animosity aimed at anyone who dares to question or criticise his policies.... are what you're looking for in a leader, then obviously Thaksin's the man for you.

Aside from his actions and policies and those of the government that he has moulded to fashion himself, everytime I see the guy's photo in the paper or on television, which, nowadays, seems to be almost every time I switch on the television or open a newspaper, I have a feeling of revolsion.....I never had this feeling about other Thai prime ministers......Chuan Leekpai, Choawalit or Banharm, for despite their failings and in some cases ineptitude and incompetence, they were to an extent "fairly" decent and civil human beings....

BUT this guy, Thaksin, is something else....the phrase " a nasty piece of work" springs to mind!

Ordinary, hard-working, decent, Thais deserve a whole lot better than Thaksin and what he stands for. Which is unabashed self enrichment of himself, family and close associates.... and the ruthless repression of criticism of him and his government's policies and the systematic dismantling of freedom of speech in Thaksin's Thailand.

And I'm sure my strong sentiments are shared by many other outraged foreigners and Thais alike, if truth be told!

[thedude]

That answers quite a few questions - is there anyone to replace Taksin, for example. If Thais don't mind being ruled by crooks, it's their business.

As for achievements - yes, the examples mentioned are facts - Otop, village fund, 30 baht scheme, yet if you look at them - Otop is a flop, its sales numbers are mostly made up from well established SMEs in the export business who qualified for Otop benefits. Actual village products developed for the this scheme sell very little.

Otop is a flop? By whose standard, yours? I think Otop is a good start. I think Thailand is better for having started an Otop program than not having one at all. I think the Otop program can be better promoted and more focussed in execution, but i still think that its a good thing. As a long-term government initiative, the Otop program cannot be narrowly measured by profitability, but by the spread of commercial adoption of Thai indeginous products and industry, and by the sustainability of broad based rural employment and skill development. In fact, i think 650 million baht is not a bad start. Well-established SMEs are a good thing because they provide a launching pad for many Otop products, and they provide established export channels that promote further growth. You should not look at things so negatively.

I agree with you that the village fund and 30 baht scheme are bad economic programs, but everybody knows they are really political programs devised to win over the voting base. A sly political move by the TRT to win the elections. Having said that, these programs did provide enough liquidity (albeit short-lived) to regenerate consumption spending in 2001 and 2002, after years of crisis, and in fact helped to kick-start economic recovery.

Thaksin was hailed as brilliant, but i think it was really a stroke of timely good fortune that it worked out well. Thaksinomics was good for its time, but times have changed. If you read my other posts, you will know that i am strongly against these schemes now that the economic recovery phase is over. I strongly believe that this government is neglecting Education spending and has not placed enough resolve in restructuring the education program to better leverage Thailand for the future. I think this is the biggest problem with this government, not corruption and nepotism, which has been around forever.

Village fund - what's so great about it - it just a handout. You don't even hear about it anymore. 30 baht scheme is a disaster waiting to happen. Public healthcare system is on a verge of collapse with doctors running away like rats from sinking ship.

Of course countries need economic management but very often the results are "in spite of", rather than "due to". In Taksin's case he dedicated too much time and money to non-issues like the ones above.

Trade deficit - yes, oil prices were responisble, but only in part. Oil prices account only for very little in final products costs, and in overall economy.Thailand imported more than it consumes. Where did this oil go? It took half a year for the government to interevene in oil hoarding, and it was too late. Imports run away.

Let me get this right, you think that government management of ecomonics has little or nothing to do with economic results, and yet the government is somehow to blame for the trade deficit? I think you have it the wrong way around. Without jumping into Economics 101, i'd just like to point out that short of manipulating the currency (which the BOT explicitly avoids doing), it is very hard to influence the trading account. The best the government can do is encourage growth and productivity in export sectors, which are more long-term programs. The impact of oil prices on an economy like Thailand's is far more profound than you imagine. Because of bad logistics infrastructre, Thailand has among the highest dependence on oil (as a % of GDP) in the world. Oil prices affect transportation costs of just about every movable product. Transportation costs are the major component of logistics costs. Prices of everything from vegetables to electronics increase because of oil prices. Oil subsidies were finally removed by this government at the risk of a civil uprising, a move that was widely lauded and a credit to this government, which had to otherwise absorb it into public debt. This helped to curb demand and lower inflation growth toward the end of 2005, not many people give the government credit for swallowing this bitter pill.

I'd like to point out that I am not a Republican/Conservative by any stretch of the imagination (just look at my avatar!), but i appreciate action and pragmatism when i see it. No government is perfect, and even a good government makes mistakes. What i am really against is the unprofessional press and media in this country, who prey on mass emotion and give unfair and biased coverage against the government. The press is afriad of being gagged (perhaps rightly so), but they over-react by making vindictive, accusatory statements while choosing not to give plain and objective reports on government policies and programs. You see it everyday in the news, just read the headlines. The voice of democracy can be wise and reasoned, but in the case of Thailand, it is the voice of a maddened, bullying lout.

[sriracha john]

He said that the risk is high because more than a hundred million people who support the government will come over Bangkok to cheer up Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to fight against the protestors.

The risk for problems is indeed strong when they bring in 30 million Burmese, plus every man, woman, and child in Thailand to Bangkok all at once.

[sriracha john]

What i am really against is the unprofessional press and media in this country, who prey on mass emotion and give unfair and biased coverage against the government. The press is afriad of being gagged (perhaps rightly so), but they over-react by making vindictive, accusatory statements while choosing not to give plain and objective reports on government policies and programs. You see it everyday in the news, just read the headlines. The voice of democracy can be wise and reasoned, but in the case of Thailand, it is the voice of a maddened, bullying lout.

Realizing, of course, that by "media," you don't mean television news, which of course is merely a mouthpiece of the government protraying an ever-rosy picture of Thailand. Getting their so-called "news" from government-issued press releases.

Does the chaos and lawsuits over at ITV and it's independent-minded employees getting fired ring any bells?

Any vindictiveness expressed by the press media can certainly be out of fear, but that fear is very real. Whether it's filing billion baht lawsuits against newspapers and NGO's or shutting down public radio stations or pulling the plug on websites it deems anti-government, Thaksin has throttled the voice of freedom. It's not just rhetoric when it comes to muzzling the independence of media or even the public at large; it's resulted in jailings, civil proceedings, and murder.

[Plus]

It's precisely because of Oil Subsidy that oil companies started hoarding oil and later sold it, allegedly for a hefty profit. It's strange that you say Taksin was widely credited for removing Oil subsidy - he should have had done it a lot earlier, before it had run up 80 bil in debts, and before oil companies got the wind and stocked up on oil, with soaring imports for the country.

Export promotion is a long term strategy and that's where Taksin failed. Yes, there always has been a lot of talk about moving up the value chain but very little action. I can't think of any major, strategical change in Thai export sector.

I think we will disagree on the value of Otop. It was doomed from the beginning - luring simple villages into business world and giving them false hopes. They can't survive there, most of them. The first Otop show was euphoric, but then it ran out steam. They are pushing the products they have instead of what people need. There's a reason companies hire executives with strong education and experience - Otop pitches villagers competing against multinationals? If not for the government subsidies and heavy promotion it will collapse in less than a year.

Only Taksin got lots of political capital out Otop. Perhaps a few lucky ones will stay in business.

And the SMEs I mentioned don't sell Otop products, they just keep shipping they tuna fish or shrimp, but with Otop labels now. They do nothing for the rest of Otop gang.

[ratcatcher]

POL GEN THAMMARAK EXPRESS CONCERN OVER SONDHI'S PROTEST

Defence Minister THAMMARAK ISARANGURA NA AYUTTHAYA (ธรรมรักษ์ อิสรางกูร ณ อยุธยา) expressed his concern over the protest led by Mr. SONDHI LIMTHONGKUL (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) at the King Rama V Equestrian Statue on February 4th. He is worried that fatalities may take place during this demonstration.

He said that the risk is high because more than a hundred million people who support the government will come over Bangkok to cheer up Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to fight against the protestors. He added that the government would not like to see such disorder. He also said that any protest should be abided by the democratic regime.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 January 2006

One has to wonder where the 67 year old general gets his information.

I mean to get more than 100 million people we would need to ask every Burmese citizen to come over to Thailand. (Myanmar pop.over 42 million) . THEN everybody in Thailand,including the entire population of Burma would have to "come over Bangkok" (whatever that means?) Then of those 100 million plus people we would need to find those that love Toxin.

I doubt very many Burmese admire him and of the Thais,I imagine his base of support has been seriously eroded after this weeks Shin anegans, even though according to Toxin "19 million people voted him in". I cannot imagine there are many Thais interested in "cheering up" the Prime Monster" after his massive windfall.

The general goes on to say "he would not like to see such disorder". What disorder? How does he know there will be "disorder" until after the fact.

Being in charge of the armed forces, I expect he has his itchy finger on a trigger at least metaphorically. I believe the Thai people especially the citizens of Bangkok are sick and tired of seeing,reading and hearing about Thaksin, his family and all the bottom feeders that hang on his every word.

Now that he has all that money why doesn't he get on a plane with all his family and go live in Pyinmana with all his Burmese buddies and let the Thai people repair the damage that has been done over the last five years by his government.

Perhaps if the man stopped taking himself so seriously it would help.

Edited January 26, 2006 by ratcatcher

[thedude]

It's precisely because of Oil Subsidy that oil companies started hoarding oil and later sold it, allegedly for a hefty profit. It's strange that you say Taksin was widely credited for removing Oil subsidy - he should have had done it a lot earlier, before it had run up 80 bil in debts, and before oil companies got the wind and stocked up on oil, with soaring imports for the country.

We are not on the same page. I'm referring to policy changes, and you talk about the short term market maneouvres that occured before policy change. The government has to announce a forward date for the change in order to manage the change process. I think oil hoarding was an unavoidable and temporary effect. Oil subsidies had been in place long before this government. Any heavily subsidised economy knows that its removal will be unpopular, the government may even be overthrown. This government not only showed that it understood the long term ramifications but it was able to do something about it. Compare this with the Indonesian government that has been trying to cut its oil subsidy for years.

Export promotion is a long term strategy and that's where Taksin failed. Yes, there always has been a lot of talk about moving up the value chain but very little action. I can't think of any major, strategical change in Thai export sector.

I think we will disagree on the value of Otop. It was doomed from the beginning - luring simple villages into business world and giving them false hopes. They can't survive there, most of them. The first Otop show was euphoric, but then it ran out steam. They are pushing the products they have instead of what people need. There's a reason companies hire executives with strong education and experience - Otop pitches villagers competing against multinationals? If not for the government subsidies and heavy promotion it will collapse in less than a year.

Only Taksin got lots of political capital out Otop. Perhaps a few lucky ones will stay in business.

And the SMEs I mentioned don't sell Otop products, they just keep shipping they tuna fish or shrimp, but with Otop labels now. They do nothing for the rest of Otop gang.