Daily Minimum Wage Increase To Bt300 Falls Behind Living Costs: Thai Study

[tlansford]

Heaven help the majority of workers, who didn't even get the (9 months !) late-delivered only-a-pre-election-promise minimum-wage of 300B/day, because they don't live in the handful of provinces which did receive it !

One can argue about the theoretical economic rights/wrongs of this headline-policy of PTP, meanwhile the poor continue to suffer under this government, time perhaps for the Big Boss overseas to put his thinking-cap on again !

you know that all the other provinces received an average 40% increase in the minimum wage in April and will have the 300 B in January, .... don't you?

Increasing the minimum wage does not solve the problem.

The problem here is the shocking disparity in incomes. In Thailand, unlike the U.S or other developed countries, if you are born in to poverty you are stuck there and it is almost impossible to break free.

This is a society where cronyism is everything and ability means nothing. I think Europe and the U.S. also have huge issues, but hard work and being smart as f*$k means more than anything else.

99% of the Thai population exist in what can only be compared to as serfdom. Increase the minimum wage by 100%. In fact, increase it by 500% and it's still a shit level of living.

The population is brainwashed as a result of the media propaganda machine and the Great Internet Firewall.

Sheer lack of financial education is also a huge problem. Give a Thai on minimum wage 1 million baht and they will go out and buy a car with all of it. Forget the fact that they live in a shack and are 2 million baht in debt.

Any increase in wages will be offset by interest payments on a new motorbike or iPhone (yes, Thai's buy their iPhone's on credit. That's why everyone has one).

We can talk about their woes all we want. Nothing will ever change here.

I agree that raising the minimum does not solve the problem that you point to - wealth inequality. Thailand does not do well on that score (but it should be noted that the USA and UK do not do well on that score either). But that is not the issue. Min wage is a floor, a means of protecting the lowest wage earners from exploitation.

Financial intelligence among the population is a different problem. And it afflicts people regardless of their income and nationality.

I would not be so pessimistic about the ability of things to change, but I would agree that it will take time and effort.

[metisdead]

Empty posts (posts in which a member posts a quoted post but does not add any text) have been removed. Reconsider this method and make your reply when you post the quoted post.

[kennedy]

I blame the dead weight on poor management.I had to play manager one day at Homepro, and got good results from the employees. I will never go back, not because of the employees, but the management= EMPLOYER!

[philw]

I blame the dead weight on poor management.I had to play manager one day at Homepro, and got good results from the employees. I will never go back, not because of the employees, but the management= EMPLOYER!

One cannot argue with experience like this..

I always ( nearly) get good results from the employees and agree that the problem is the management.

Problem is in my company, I'm the management............

Maybe I need to be re-employed., or something.

[nietzche]

<deleted> is wrong with people getting a slight increase in pay and a small improvement in their living conditions ??

How can people here object to this ??

You would all fight tooth and claw for a 3% increase in your pensions...................

Did anyone say they had a problem with an increase in minimum wage?

Maybe your confusing threads?

The general consensus here is that it is a meaningless gesture. If there was real interest in increasing the quaility of life of the poorest Thai's, then there are bigger issues that must be tackled here.

Do you really think that a government mandated minimum wage increase will have an impact on the most vulnerable in society?

I lived in the south previously. The workers on the palm/rubber plantations earned 200 baht per day.

Do you think they're going to see a minimum wage increase?

Implementation and enforcement are two completely different animals. the latter is 100 times more difficult.

I suggest next time you storm onto a thread blurting out nonsense like a lunatic, you do your research first.

Edited August 17, 2012 by nietzche

[rubl]

begin removed

...

I suspect that the Thai minimum wage workers who voted PTP because of this promise are less pleased by the compliance of employers than they are bother by some imaginary broken promise of the government on the minimum wage issue.

So, Pheu Thai promises and the employers are to be blamed for not implementing what a political party promised with even the political party having said 'well, campaign only promises'.

Makes sense, to some that is

tell me Rubl, what do you think is more important to a Thai worker, that his employer doesn't try to screw him out of his raise or that the PTP raised the minimum wage to 300B/day nationwide on August 9th 2011?

This is as ridiculous as every thread here regarding the minimum wage ... as Bugs would say, "what a bunch of maroons... "

11.30PM, no rain, no reason to watch the grass grow, so let me try to understand tlansford 101 again, ignoring party political rhetoric and insinuations.

Pheu Thai party had 'campaign only' promises, the new government (88% PT) has a 'first year implementation policy' of "enable 300B/d" as read out by PM Yingluck August 2011. September 2011 sees 'deal' aka "mission accomplished, next'.

Now voters who believed Pheu Thai 'campaign only' promises may be pissed off by employers who were confronted by a promise they weren't part of. Obviously if they cannot pay 300B/d they should just go bust as they have no reason to exist anyway. No info on the spread of company - number of employees - salary spread.

Question:

-1: what type of companies profit from reduces Corporae Tax rates (size-wise, %% wise)

-2: what number of companies had below 300B/d salary levels (%% wise)

-3: what %% of possible wage increase is 'eaten' away by price rises due to percieved salary increases

-4: when is the 'mission accomplished' party?

[hellodolly]

Well once again we get results head line news in the Nation.

Of course they are based on a poll which has no safe guards to keep it honest.

Not saying cost of living hasn't gone up just challenging the source.

By the way I read none of the replies. It was a no brain article

Thailand becoming the hub of what do you want to believe poll's we will find you positive results to show that you are right.

[BirdsandBooze]

300 Baht perday is 300 baht too much to pay lazy Thai sitting there all day.

Food is only 20 baht per meal and help yourself to the FREE refreshing cool drinking water.

Did you perchance forget the cost of renting somewhere to live, electricity bills, transport costs, clothes, footwear, soap, toothpaste, laundry and the many other ESSENTIAL things that everbody needs to live on?

What about how much it costs to feed the wife, children, aged parents as well or do they eat the same 20 baht per meal plus of course feee cool refreshing drinking water in the home as well?

Perhaps you get all that for free and only pay 20 baht for a meal though for 20 baht you won't eat that well.

Please don't feed the troll.

So many similarities to the late Sparebox 2, it`s uncanny.

[rubl]

Well once again we get results head line news in the Nation.

Of course they are based on a poll which has no safe guards to keep it honest.

Not saying cost of living hasn't gone up just challenging the source.

By the way I read none of the replies. It was a no brain article

Thailand becoming the hub of what do you want to believe poll's we will find you positive results to show that you are right.

You didn't read the posts? I'm somewhat offended, apart from the fact that you missed out on some very interesting lessons on Economical Relevance of Campaign Only promises and what normal workers who didn't get an increase think of their employers

[Ricardo]

<deleted> is wrong with people getting a slight increase in pay and a small improvement in their living conditions ??

How can people here object to this ??

You would all fight tooth and claw for a 3% increase in your pensions...................

Did anyone say they had a problem with an increase in minimum wage?

Maybe your confusing threads?

The general consensus here is that it is a meaningless gesture. If there was real interest in increasing the quaility of life of the poorest Thai's, then there are bigger issues that must be tackled here.

Do you really think that a government mandated minimum wage increase will have an impact on the most vulnerable in society?

I lived in the south previously. The workers on the palm/rubber plantations earned 200 baht per day.

Do you think they're going to see a minimum wage increase?

Implementation and enforcement are two completely different animals. the latter is 100 times more difficult.

I suggest next time you storm onto a thread blurting out nonsense like a lunatic, you do your research first.

Agreed.

Posters here don't object to improving living-standards, we'd mostly be very pleased to see some real improvement.

But apart from those now on 300B/day, and those on less (in my own area it ranges from 222B-251B/day) , there are then millions more who are still affected by the rising cost-of-living, but who will never be helped by this sort of collective-bargaining minimum-wage set-up, because they work in family-owned businesses like small-shops/food-stalls/farms.

They can only hope to benefit as their customers earn more, and have more to spend with them, a trickle-down effect.

And the OP suggests that the bureaucrats feel a further wage-settlement system is needed, to set minimum-rates for skilled workers, they seem to want to central-plan their way to Utopia and that doesn't work ! Been shown in dozens of other countries in the last century.

This system of collective-bargaining between big-employers/government/unions can at-best try to set a safety-net level or guideline.

[rixalex]

You started that post with five words that were complete and utter BS: I don't defend the PTP. That's akin to me trying to claim i don't attack PTP. If you can't be honest about something as elementary and as screamingly obvious as that, little point in continuing i think. Happy to discuss with people of a different political persuasion, but people who are disingenuous... well, it just seems a little too much like a waste of one's time.

"seems a little too much like a waste of one's time"

well, we agree there.

You pick an irrelevant part of the reply and run with that - just typical for the people here to attack the poster.

I don't attack you for defending the PTP, i attack you for disingenuously pretending you aren't, when the opposite is so blatantly obvious. And your position on the PTP is not irrelevant. It is a large and fundamental part of this discussion, and if you can't be honest about that, it doesn't exactly bode well for any of your other points.

I happen to believe in a living wage and have been very consistent in my position about this policy.

I believe in it too. Where we differ is i don't believe the promise that was made to voters was done with any consideration as to how they would implement it, or even if they would be able to implement it, it was scribbled down on the back of a fag packet by some campaign advisor, and off they ran with it..... which is fine if all you care about is winning votes and getting in power.

The PTP promised a 300B minimum wage and are delivering it. Anyone who wants to deny that is ... well, in denial

Truly staggering that you can made that statement and then follow it up at the end with an accusation about others being in denial.

[tlansford]

Heaven help the majority of workers, who didn't even get the (9 months !) late-delivered only-a-pre-election-promise minimum-wage of 300B/day, because they don't live in the handful of provinces which did receive it !

One can argue about the theoretical economic rights/wrongs of this headline-policy of PTP, meanwhile the poor continue to suffer under this government, time perhaps for the Big Boss overseas to put his thinking-cap on again !

you know that all the other provinces received an average 40% increase in the minimum wage in April and will have the 300 B in January, .... don't you?

No they didn't, and no they won't. Take that as first hand information from somebody sat in Thailand rather than the states.

who's in the states?

So you have non-compliance to report?

[tlansford]

The survey, conducted on 2,516 workers in eight provinces including Bangkok, found that 76 per cent saw their wage increase after April, while 18 per cent got the raise with conditions; 5.1 per cent received no wage hike, despite the law.

How many of these were already above minimum wage?

0, or is that too hard to figure out, Whybother?

Actually the way it's written there's no way to be sure as far as I can tell. Of course it will have been translated so as usual it's very difficult to be certain about the finer details. Even the question is ambiguous as it isn't totally clear if it's asking about the current 300baht minimum or the previous minimum (I think there was one). Assuming it's referring to the 300 baht then I would think having a guess that you're right that these are workers who were getting less than 300 baht a day prior to April.

It is true that the writing from The Nation is unclear.

But as the survey is from the TLSC regarding the question whether or not the workers are receiving the minimum wage increase mandated by the law, it would be illogical to assume that the survey includes people earning more than the current minimum wage.

I wish the Nation would provide references to the surveys they use in their reporting.

[slapout]

The mentioned 40 percent increase average, in min. wage in april for those areas not raised to 300 baht per day. may require a second time thru on your math.

There may be a few laborers who would disagree as would their employors if pressed.

[tlansford]

- deleted

"seems a little too much like a waste of one's time"

well, we agree there.

You pick an irrelevant part of the reply and run with that - just typical for the people here to attack the poster.

I don't attack you for defending the PTP, i attack you for disingenuously pretending you aren't, when the opposite is so blatantly obvious. And your position on the PTP is not irrelevant. It is a large and fundamental part of this discussion, and if you can't be honest about that, it doesn't exactly bode well for any of your other points.

I happen to believe in a living wage and have been very consistent in my position about this policy.

I believe in it too. Where we differ is i don't believe the promise that was made to voters was done with any consideration as to how they would implement it, or even if they would be able to implement it, it was scribbled down on the back of a fag packet by some campaign advisor, and off they ran with it..... which is fine if all you care about is winning votes and getting in power.

The PTP promised a 300B minimum wage and are delivering it. Anyone who wants to deny that is ... well, in denial

Truly staggering that you can made that statement and then follow it up at the end with an accusation about others being in denial.

So you are off on attacking the poster and not the content again. I defend this policy because I think it is a good one. You want to call the defending the PTP - I don't care what you think about that - it is not relevant to the discussion if you think I am defending the PTP or not. And I usnderstand that it certainly looks like that anyway since the posters against the policy are so obviously attacking the PTP...

Your simple formulate is flawed, but looks like this :

poster attacks policy = attacks PTP

poster defends policy = defends PTP

The fact that posters disparage the policy through tangents like "the PTP break another promise, it was a stupid idea anyway" is countered with an argument to say that this position is crap becomes in your position defending the PTP which in turn is then somehow relevant to the reality that the policy is already being implemented.

you state "I believe in it too. Where we differ is i don't believe the promise that was made to voters was done with any consideration as to how they would implement it, or even if they would be able to implement it, it was scribbled down on the back of a fag packet by some campaign advisor, and off they ran with it..... which is fine if all you care about is winning votes and getting in power."

This basically assumes a complete ignorance on the part of all the Thai people involved regarding their own system of managing minimum wage increases - a system which is a long-standing process. I don't assume that to be the case.

And there is this gem related to my comment "The PTP promised a 300B minimum wage and are delivering it. Anyone who wants to deny that is ... well, in denial"

you state

"Truly staggering that you can made that statement and then follow it up at the end with an accusation about others being in denial."

The policy was formulated and is being implemented. The first phase of increases has been in place since April 1 and the final increase on January 1 - your statement above would have to also explain how that is not delivering the campaign promise... but of course you don't, because the government is delivering on the campaign promise...

[tlansford]

The mentioned 40 percent increase average, in min. wage in april for those areas not raised to 300 baht per day. may require a second time thru on your math.

There may be a few laborers who would disagree as would their employors if pressed.

one of many reports.

http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=6223&a=2

I have also read that it was an average of 39.5 % in the other provinces.

[473geo]

To summarise the thread

The government appear to be delivering the 300 baht minimun wage, this negates and removes any accusation that the election promise was 'vote buying hyperbole'.........which pisses off the anti government posters

Their only creditable repost.........it is being delivered 'Thai time'

As this is occuring in Thailand....... .

[rixalex]

A more accurate summary would be that the part-time government spokespeople here know full well that what was promised on those posters has not transpired in anything like the manner that was implied and suggested, but they deny that, (just as they frequently disingenuously deny their own political allegiances) and try to worm out of the failure to implement this policy by making an argument much akin to, if one person in all of Thailand got the 300 baht minumum wage, that would be sufficient to declare that the policy was being implemented as promised. Sort of nonsense argument that only a politician could try to make.

[tlansford]

A more accurate summary would be that the part-time government spokespeople here know full well that what was promised on those posters has not transpired in anything like the manner that was implied and suggested, but they deny that, (just as they frequently disingenuously deny their own political allegiances) and try to worm out of the failure to implement this policy by making an argument much akin to, if one person in all of Thailand got the 300 baht minumum wage, that would be sufficient to declare that the policy was being implemented as promised. Sort of nonsense argument that only a politician could try to make.

deny deny deny...

[Thait Spot]

What percentage of Thai workers have had their wages increased to the new minimum salary? Isn't this something the government should be using for self-agrandissement and yelling from the rooftops at all the infidels?

[Reasonableman]

What percentage of Thai workers have had their wages increased to the new minimum salary? Isn't this something the government should be using for self-agrandissement and yelling from the rooftops at all the infidels?

Absolutely. As Joe Friday was wont to say, "All I want's da facts, ma'am."

[Thait Spot]

What percentage of Thai workers have had their wages increased to the new minimum salary? Isn't this something the government should be using for self-agrandissement and yelling from the rooftops at all the infidels?

Absolutely. As Joe Friday was wont to say, "All I want's da facts, ma'am."

I believe LAPD has been preoccupied with other events this week.

[OzMick]

Inflation seems to be "phased in" at a faster rate. Already there are calls to raise the minimum further, continuing the spiral.

Round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows. I suppose the next thing will be an increase in the rice pledging price.

[rixalex]

The 300 baht minimum wage is happening, and being 'phased in' is exactly what business, and the original detractors demanded

Pleased to announce that PTP is also "phasing in" an end to Bangkok traffic jams, elimination of poverty, removal of the drug trade, no more dirty toilets, tablets for all school kids, no more corruption, no more flooding. They apologise for any delays which they hasten to add are none of their own causing, and would like to assure everyone that at some time between now and the end of civilisation, these projects will be completed.

[473geo]

The 300 baht minimum wage is happening, and being 'phased in' is exactly what business, and the original detractors demanded

Pleased to announce that PTP is also "phasing in" an end to Bangkok traffic jams, elimination of poverty, removal of the drug trade, no more dirty toilets, tablets for all school kids, no more corruption, no more flooding. They apologise for any delays which they hasten to add are none of their own causing, and would like to assure everyone that at some time between now and the end of civilisation, these projects will be completed.

Rather a bold prediction PTP will govern " between now and the end of civilisation" but not inconceivable I guess

[OzMick]

The 300 baht minimum wage is happening, and being 'phased in' is exactly what business, and the original detractors demanded

Pleased to announce that PTP is also "phasing in" an end to Bangkok traffic jams, elimination of poverty, removal of the drug trade, no more dirty toilets, tablets for all school kids, no more corruption, no more flooding. They apologise for any delays which they hasten to add are none of their own causing, and would like to assure everyone that at some time between now and the end of civilisation, these projects will be completed.

Rather a bold prediction PTP will govern " between now and the end of civilisation" but not inconceivable I guess

"The end of civilisation" - that would be when the red shirts take over?

[rixalex]

Rather a bold prediction PTP will govern " between now and the end of civilisation" but not inconceivable I guess

Given you something to dream about.

[Reasonableman]

It was predicted civilization would end this year, so no great surprise here.

[rixalex]

It was predicted civilization would end this year, so no great surprise here.

Another broken promise no doubt.

[Noistar]

To summarise the thread

The government appear to be delivering the 300 baht minimun wage, this negates and removes any accusation that the election promise was 'vote buying hyperbole'.........which pisses off the anti government posters

Their only creditable repost.........it is being delivered 'Thai time'

As this is occuring in Thailand....... .

1-the Government 'appear' to be delivering

2- as your post doesn't say 'is', that rather negates your assertion about accusations re the Government.

Your defence is it isn't happening as promised because it's part of the way things happen in Thai culture.

A rather confusing set of contradictory 'facts' allowing the jibe "which pisses off the anti government posters".