Prayuth Files Complaint Against Thaksin Lawyer Robert Amsterdam For Defamation

[MikeOboe57]

And yet, all that Mr. Amsterdam stated has been demonstrated with the recent jail sentence of the women in Pussy Riot. It is quite obvious that the Russian system is corrupt and that it is impossible to receive a fair trial in Russia. The distancing from Mr. Amsterdam was part of the defence strategy. Standard good guy/bad guy m.o. One sees the same strategy with the defense of Mr. Thaksin. Mr. Amsterdam takes on the tough aspect of the case, confronting those that wish to squash basic human rights. It is far easier for Mr. Amsterdam to defend against the complaint of a Thai army general than it would be for a Thai. I respect Mr. Amsterdam as he is fearless in his fight against the fanged faciasts who seek to intimidate and sow fear in the populace.

Oh dear. Part of the defence strategy was to get Mr Khodorkovsky the minimum possible sentence. And this part was successfully sabotaged by the self acclaimed "global super duper human rights lawyer" Robert Amsterdam. By trumpeting into every microphone how evil the Russian government was, instead of studying the files presented by the prosecution he managed to tear down with his buttocks in one swift motion what Mr Khodorkovsky's accredited lawyers managed to build up with their hands in days of meticulous work. But this had always been Mr Amsterdam's trademark and was one reason he quit his original job a corporate lawyer - in that profession you don't get away with BS like praising Mr Khodorkovsky as a shining beacon of freedom and democracy.

Pussy Riot were lucky that Mr Amsterdam didn't raise his voice for them - they would have spent the next 25 years in an infamous labour camp.

That the "human rights lawyer" Robert Amsterdam sold his service to a Dr. (GK) Thaksin Shinawatra shows that he either puts money before moral standards or that he has no clue about what is going on outside his hillbilly horizon. IMHO it is a combination of both.

[Bagwan]

It is commonly held that a lawyer is somebody that you hire to tell lies on your behalf. Amsterdam is a lawyer. Like most here, I take his utterings with a pinch of salt and consider him as not much more than a gun for hire.

[Thaddeus]

And yet, all that Mr. Amsterdam stated has been demonstrated with the recent jail sentence of the women in Pussy Riot. It is quite obvious that the Russian system is corrupt and that it is impossible to receive a fair trial in Russia. The distancing from Mr. Amsterdam was part of the defence strategy. Standard good guy/bad guy m.o. One sees the same strategy with the defense of Mr. Thaksin. Mr. Amsterdam takes on the tough aspect of the case, confronting those that wish to squash basic human rights. It is far easier for Mr. Amsterdam to defend against the complaint of a Thai army general than it would be for a Thai. I respect Mr. Amsterdam as he is fearless in his fight against the fanged faciasts who seek to intimidate and sow fear in the populace.

Oh. please GK, you've made some good posts recently, astute and thoughtful and well articulated, which I have appreciated some parts of, however, there's always a however with me.

This mouthpiece, as that is all he is, is just a bought and paid for sycophant, he bowed out of any representation of Khun T in the USA as he knew it was going to go badly, but will quite happily bang his gums where he thinks he can't be prosecuted as long as the invoices are paid.

If the tide turns completely against Khun T, this piece of self aggrandising filth will disappear like the morning mist, and quicker than the slice of gurkin off a McD's quarter pounder.

[scotbeve]

Moryua,

You wrote:

"So here we have a daengophilic government, a daengophilic police force, the red shirts themselves, Thaksin, Amsterdam and God knows who else and there are missing red shirts from 2010 that none of these people cares about? No photos in the papers, no "missing" posters at the rallies, nothing?"

Me

There have been plenty of missing people announcements (in local Or-bor-tors, community boards, blogs, and even amphur offices). At rallies, there are also announcements. IMHO, I think that these announcements have been cut back or curtailed to respect the families' grief. I believe there were also news articles printed but we all know those would not last long, don't we???Sorry, please explain your following >>> "a daengophilic police force" Police force in love of the reds? Hmmmmm......

[rubl]

Moryua,

You wrote:

"So here we have a daengophilic government, a daengophilic police force, the red shirts themselves, Thaksin, Amsterdam and God knows who else and there are missing red shirts from 2010 that none of these people cares about? No photos in the papers, no "missing" posters at the rallies, nothing?"

Me

There have been plenty of missing people announcements (in local Or-bor-tors, community boards, blogs, and even amphur offices). At rallies, there are also announcements. IMHO, I think that these announcements have been cut back or curtailed to respect the families' grief. I believe there were also news articles printed but we all know those would not last long, don't we???Sorry, please explain your following >>> "a daengophilic police force" Police force in love of the reds? Hmmmmm......

There have been plenty of 'missing persons' announcements for sure. IMHO these announcements have been cut back because most returned, some popped-up using different names, etc., etc. From the 2010 peaceful events some 51 might still be missing, but even this new government seems unable (or should that be unwilling) to provide details. For sure, to claim THB 7.5 million a few papers are required.

With news items like 'accident, driver fled' it does seem to indicate that if a Thai wants (s)he can easily disappear, even without the need for a conspiracy

[scotbeve]

Moryua,

You wrote:

"So here we have a daengophilic government, a daengophilic police force, the red shirts themselves, Thaksin, Amsterdam and God knows who else and there are missing red shirts from 2010 that none of these people cares about? No photos in the papers, no "missing" posters at the rallies, nothing?"

Me

There have been plenty of missing people announcements (in local Or-bor-tors, community boards, blogs, and even amphur offices). At rallies, there are also announcements. IMHO, I think that these announcements have been cut back or curtailed to respect the families' grief. I believe there were also news articles printed but we all know those would not last long, don't we???Sorry, please explain your following >>> "a daengophilic police force" Police force in love of the reds? Hmmmmm......

There have been plenty of 'missing persons' announcements for sure. IMHO these announcements have been cut back because most returned, some popped-up using different names, etc., etc. From the 2010 peaceful events some 51 might still be missing, but even this new government seems unable (or should that be unwilling) to provide details. For sure, to claim THB 7.5 million a few papers are required.

With news items like 'accident, driver fled' it does seem to indicate that if a Thai wants (s)he can easily disappear, even without the need for a conspiracy

Yes, yes Rubl... we all know these "things happen" and are not unusual in the LOS. I happen to know of one of these families and there was "no need" for this person to disappear. He had land, 2 farms and was building a house. He was a straight-shooter and also DID NOT have a "mia noi". He also used his own cash to travel to BKK for the rallies.

[Buchholz]

Moryua,

You wrote:

"So here we have a daengophilic government, a daengophilic police force, the red shirts themselves, Thaksin, Amsterdam and God knows who else and there are missing red shirts from 2010 that none of these people cares about? No photos in the papers, no "missing" posters at the rallies, nothing?"

Me

There have been plenty of missing people announcements (in local Or-bor-tors, community boards, blogs, and even amphur offices). At rallies, there are also announcements. IMHO, I think that these announcements have been cut back or curtailed to respect the families' grief. I believe there were also news articles printed but we all know those would not last long, don't we???Sorry, please explain your following >>> "a daengophilic police force" Police force in love of the reds? Hmmmmm......

There have been plenty of 'missing persons' announcements for sure. IMHO these announcements have been cut back because most returned, some popped-up using different names, etc., etc. From the 2010 peaceful events some 51 might still be missing, but even this new government seems unable (or should that be unwilling) to provide details. For sure, to claim THB 7.5 million a few papers are required.

With news items like 'accident, driver fled' it does seem to indicate that if a Thai wants (s)he can easily disappear, even without the need for a conspiracy

Mustn't deprive the Red Shirts of the extra quarter of a million baht that they richly "earned"...

BANGKOK, Jan. 12 (Xinhua) -- The government's 2-billion-baht compensation package which is aimed at appeasing political victims failed to satisfy all political camps and raised doubts if it could really lead to reconciliation as expected, some analysts here noted.

The weekly cabinet meeting on Tuesday gave the nod to the compensation measure worth 2 billion baht . Under the plan, 7.75 million baht will be given to the family of each victim.

[rubl]

Moryua,

You wrote:

"So here we have a daengophilic government, a daengophilic police force, the red shirts themselves, Thaksin, Amsterdam and God knows who else and there are missing red shirts from 2010 that none of these people cares about? No photos in the papers, no "missing" posters at the rallies, nothing?"

Me

There have been plenty of missing people announcements (in local Or-bor-tors, community boards, blogs, and even amphur offices). At rallies, there are also announcements. IMHO, I think that these announcements have been cut back or curtailed to respect the families' grief. I believe there were also news articles printed but we all know those would not last long, don't we???Sorry, please explain your following >>> "a daengophilic police force" Police force in love of the reds? Hmmmmm......

There have been plenty of 'missing persons' announcements for sure. IMHO these announcements have been cut back because most returned, some popped-up using different names, etc., etc. From the 2010 peaceful events some 51 might still be missing, but even this new government seems unable (or should that be unwilling) to provide details. For sure, to claim THB 7.5 million a few papers are required.

With news items like 'accident, driver fled' it does seem to indicate that if a Thai wants (s)he can easily disappear, even without the need for a conspiracy

Yes, yes Rubl... we all know these "things happen" and are not unusual in the LOS. I happen to know of one of these families and there was "no need" for this person to disappear. He had land, 2 farms and was building a house. He was a straight-shooter and also DID NOT have a "mia noi". He also used his own cash to travel to BKK for the rallies.

So I assume he's on the official list of 'at least' 50 or so people still missing after the peaceful protests concluded on the 20th of May, 2010?

[Moruya]

Moryua,

You wrote:

"So here we have a daengophilic government, a daengophilic police force, the red shirts themselves, Thaksin, Amsterdam and God knows who else and there are missing red shirts from 2010 that none of these people cares about? No photos in the papers, no "missing" posters at the rallies, nothing?"

Me

There have been plenty of missing people announcements (in local Or-bor-tors, community boards, blogs, and even amphur offices). At rallies, there are also announcements. IMHO, I think that these announcements have been cut back or curtailed to respect the families' grief. I believe there were also news articles printed but we all know those would not last long, don't we???Sorry, please explain your following >>> "a daengophilic police force" Police force in love of the reds? Hmmmmm......

Personally I find it difficult to believe that the red shirts would not be seeking to make as much political gain from any missing persons. From Thaksin to Amsterdam to Jatuporn and the rest.

The police force, headed by Thaksin's brother in law (such a gifted family, don't you think?) Is very widely viewed as pro-red and their actions over the years back this up....

[scotbeve]

Moryua,

You wrote:

"So here we have a daengophilic government, a daengophilic police force, the red shirts themselves, Thaksin, Amsterdam and God knows who else and there are missing red shirts from 2010 that none of these people cares about? No photos in the papers, no "missing" posters at the rallies, nothing?"

Me

There have been plenty of missing people announcements (in local Or-bor-tors, community boards, blogs, and even amphur offices). At rallies, there are also announcements. IMHO, I think that these announcements have been cut back or curtailed to respect the families' grief. I believe there were also news articles printed but we all know those would not last long, don't we???Sorry, please explain your following >>> "a daengophilic police force" Police force in love of the reds? Hmmmmm......

There have been plenty of 'missing persons' announcements for sure. IMHO these announcements have been cut back because most returned, some popped-up using different names, etc., etc. From the 2010 peaceful events some 51 might still be missing, but even this new government seems unable (or should that be unwilling) to provide details. For sure, to claim THB 7.5 million a few papers are required.

With news items like 'accident, driver fled' it does seem to indicate that if a Thai wants (s)he can easily disappear, even without the need for a conspiracy

Yes, yes Rubl... we all know these "things happen" and are not unusual in the LOS. I happen to know of one of these families and there was "no need" for this person to disappear. He had land, 2 farms and was building a house. He was a straight-shooter and also DID NOT have a "mia noi". He also used his own cash to travel to BKK for the rallies.

So I assume he's on the official list of 'at least' 50 or so people still missing after the peaceful protests concluded on the 20th of May, 2010?

Yes, apparently so....

[jayjayjayjay]

It is interesting that so many westerners in Thailand have such hatred for everything Thaksin that they can't see the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Are we to believe Sia Dang fell over dead through a mysterious bullet from nowhere..... Wake up and smell the roses The Nation editorial staff!!!

Sae Daeng (aka Little Big Mouth) made himself unpopular with many factions. If, as you suggest, the RTA killed him it would only be because they no how to get a job done quickly and beat the other contenders to it. More to the point, no proof or claims to the deed exist.

So my question is, what would happen in your country if the military killed one of it's citizens? Simple answer please.

[jayjayjayjay]

It is interesting that so many westerners in Thailand have such hatred for everything Thaksin that they can't see the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Are we to believe Sia Dang fell over dead through a mysterious bullet from nowhere..... Wake up and smell the roses The Nation editorial staff!!!

Sae Daeng (aka Little Big Mouth) made himself unpopular with many factions. If, as you suggest, the RTA killed him it would only be because they no how to get a job done quickly and beat the other contenders to it. More to the point, no proof or claims to the deed exist.

The list of those who would benefit form Sae Daeng's death is too long to list,

but the RTA, as a unit from top down, is not to far up on that ling list.

Individuals with-in that may be another story, but no higher than many others on the probabilities list.

He was deeply unpopular, but also madly beloved in some sectors, and thus was more useful to some as a dead martyred icon than as a commander of the resistance.

So it's not just who wanted him dead for rivalries or revenge,

but also strategic profit and reduction of risk. And the best way to do that,

is with a accurate sniper taking him out in the clear,

not the heat of battle, but great kick off a battle.

Same question...

So my question is, what would happen in your country if the military killed one of it's citizens? Simple answer please.

[Moruya]

It is interesting that so many westerners in Thailand have such hatred for everything Thaksin that they can't see the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Are we to believe Sia Dang fell over dead through a mysterious bullet from nowhere..... Wake up and smell the roses The Nation editorial staff!!!

Sae Daeng (aka Little Big Mouth) made himself unpopular with many factions. If, as you suggest, the RTA killed him it would only be because they no how to get a job done quickly and beat the other contenders to it. More to the point, no proof or claims to the deed exist.

The list of those who would benefit form Sae Daeng's death is too long to list,

but the RTA, as a unit from top down, is not to far up on that ling list.

Individuals with-in that may be another story, but no higher than many others on the probabilities list.

He was deeply unpopular, but also madly beloved in some sectors, and thus was more useful to some as a dead martyred icon than as a commander of the resistance.

So it's not just who wanted him dead for rivalries or revenge,

but also strategic profit and reduction of risk. And the best way to do that,

is with a accurate sniper taking him out in the clear,

not the heat of battle, but great kick off a battle.

Same question...

So my question is, what would happen in your country if the military killed one of it's citizens? Simple answer please.

In any country, it would depend on myriad factors

[jayjayjayjay]

The list of those who would benefit form Sae Daeng's death is too long to list,

but the RTA, as a unit from top down, is not to far up on that ling list.

Individuals with-in that may be another story, but no higher than many others on the probabilities list.

He was deeply unpopular, but also madly beloved in some sectors, and thus was more useful to some as a dead martyred icon than as a commander of the resistance.

So it's not just who wanted him dead for rivalries or revenge,

but also strategic profit and reduction of risk. And the best way to do that,

is with a accurate sniper taking him out in the clear,

not the heat of battle, but great kick off a battle.

Same question...

So my question is, what would happen in your country if the military killed one of it's citizens? Simple answer please.

In any country, it would depend on myriad factors

You might want to check your Constitution!

[MikeOboe57]

The list of those who would benefit form Sae Daeng's death is too long to list,

but the RTA, as a unit from top down, is not to far up on that ling list.

Individuals with-in that may be another story, but no higher than many others on the probabilities list.

He was deeply unpopular, but also madly beloved in some sectors, and thus was more useful to some as a dead martyred icon than as a commander of the resistance.

So it's not just who wanted him dead for rivalries or revenge,

but also strategic profit and reduction of risk. And the best way to do that,

is with a accurate sniper taking him out in the clear,

not the heat of battle, but great kick off a battle.

Same question...

So my question is, what would happen in your country if the military killed one of it's citizens? Simple answer please.

In any country, it would depend on myriad factors

You might want to check your Constitution!

Dear JJJ,

in my country any officer who publicly "declares war" on the government, takes actively part in an increasingly violent demonstration in full combat uniform and claim to be the "fortress commander", would swiftly be arrested on site by military police, subject to disciplinary action, prohibited to wear uniform and, if he was holding a General's rank, kicked out of the forces the very same day. This would be followed by criminal investigation do determine whether his actions justified a dishonorable discharge with loss of pension.

[Moruya]

The list of those who would benefit form Sae Daeng's death is too long to list,

but the RTA, as a unit from top down, is not to far up on that ling list.

Individuals with-in that may be another story, but no higher than many others on the probabilities list.

He was deeply unpopular, but also madly beloved in some sectors, and thus was more useful to some as a dead martyred icon than as a commander of the resistance.

So it's not just who wanted him dead for rivalries or revenge,

but also strategic profit and reduction of risk. And the best way to do that,

is with a accurate sniper taking him out in the clear,

not the heat of battle, but great kick off a battle.

Same question...

So my question is, what would happen in your country if the military killed one of it's citizens? Simple answer please.

In any country, it would depend on myriad factors

You might want to check your Constitution!

My doctor says its fine.

[jayjayjayjay]

You might want to check your Constitution!

My doctor says its fine.

:-)

[OzMick]

It is interesting that so many westerners in Thailand have such hatred for everything Thaksin that they can't see the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Are we to believe Sia Dang fell over dead through a mysterious bullet from nowhere..... Wake up and smell the roses The Nation editorial staff!!!

Sae Daeng (aka Little Big Mouth) made himself unpopular with many factions. If, as you suggest, the RTA killed him it would only be because they no how to get a job done quickly and beat the other contenders to it. More to the point, no proof or claims to the deed exist.

The list of those who would benefit form Sae Daeng's death is too long to list,

but the RTA, as a unit from top down, is not to far up on that ling list.

Individuals with-in that may be another story, but no higher than many others on the probabilities list.

He was deeply unpopular, but also madly beloved in some sectors, and thus was more useful to some as a dead martyred icon than as a commander of the resistance.

So it's not just who wanted him dead for rivalries or revenge,

but also strategic profit and reduction of risk. And the best way to do that,

is with a accurate sniper taking him out in the clear,

not the heat of battle, but great kick off a battle.

Same question...

So my question is, what would happen in your country if the military killed one of it's citizens? Simple answer please.

If the citizen was a rebel officer leading an armed insurrection, there would possibly be a promotion offered. But your question pre-supposes that the military killed Seh Daeng, which is a very shaky basis for an other than hypothetical question.

If you were not referring to Seh Daeng, in a situation where police are unable/unwilling to control armed protesters committing criminal acts, and the military was deployed, there would be very few reasonable people complaining. Armed criminality involves serious risk of injury and/or death of and by law enforcement officers in either blue or green uniforms.

Edited August 22, 2012 by OzMick

[koosdeboer]

Interesting interview with Robert Amsterdam

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Thaivisa Connect App

[jayboy]

Human Rights Watch officially reports on the appalling behaviour of General Prayuth

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/08/23/thailand-army-chief-interfering-investigations

[rixalex]

Human Rights Watch officially reports on the appalling behaviour of General Prayuth

http://www.hrw.org/n...-investigations

Behaviour which they say the current government, including Chalerm and Yingluck, appears to be fully supporting... which goes back to my belief about the current government only being interested in pursuing justice for the deaths in nothing more than a superficial manner, and on the basis that it may offer leverage against those who are obstructing the Thaksin whitewashing program (otherwise misleadingly known as the reconciliation bill).

Families of UDD members killed during the violence told Human Rights Watch that they had little hope for obtaining justice for their loss. To receive financial reparations from the government, the families had to sign a settlement forfeiting their rights to file a court case against the army for civil damage.

“Prime Minister Yingluck came to power promising justice to the victims of political violence,” Adams said. “By siding with the army chief in his attempts to shut down investigations into army abuses, she is breaking her promise to the victims and the Thai people.”

And as well as identifying the culpability of the army in some of the deaths, it also identifies the black shirts, who are often speculated as being a group quite separate from the protesters, as being a heavily armed element of the UDD; an element that was responsible for the deaths of soldiers, police and civilians.

From March to May 2010, the UDD, known as the “Red Shirts,” held mass protests against the government of then-Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. A Human Rights Watch report in May 2011, “Descent into Chaos: Thailand’s 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown,” concluded that the high death toll and injuries resulted from excessive and unnecessary lethal force by the Thai army and other security forces. The high number of civilian casualties – including unarmed demonstrators, volunteer medics, reporters, photographers, and bystanders – resulted in part from the government’s designation of “live fire zones” around the UDD protest sites in Bangkok.

Armed elements of the UDD, including heavily armed “Black Shirt” militants, were responsible for deadly attacks on soldiers, police, and civilians. Some UDD leaders incited violence with inflammatory speeches to demonstrators, including urging their supporters to carry out riots, arson attacks, and looting. Arson attacks in and outside Bangkok caused billions of dollars in damage.

Personally i think if a fair and balanced investigation is to be under-taken, (which i don't for a minute think will happen for my reasons given above), then the spotlight should not just be on alleged atrocities committed by the army, as it seems to be, but also on the alleged atrocities commited by the UDD. They were the ones provoking the situation. They were the ones we can say without a doubt were breaking the law. Amsterdam, as the human rights lawyer he calls himself, should be all over it like a rash, shouting from the rooftops for these men in black to be identified by name and brought to justice. That he never mentions it, reveals the real depth of his interest in human rights, not of course that it has ever really been a secret. I can understand why his two-faced sanctimonious nonsense has got under the skin of Prayuth, and led him to rashly hitting out in the only way he feels he easily can, but he would have been much better keeping his own counsel. Once you get in a spat with a man like Amsterdam, you will find it all too easy to end up descending to his level.

[jayboy]

Human Rights Watch officially reports on the appalling behaviour of General Prayuth

http://www.hrw.org/n...-investigations

Behaviour which they say the current government, including Chalerm and Yingluck, appears to be fully supporting... which goes back to my belief about the current government only being interested in pursuing justice for the deaths in nothing more than a superficial manner, and on the basis that it may offer leverage against those who are obstructing the Thaksin whitewashing program (otherwise misleadingly known as the reconciliation bill).

Families of UDD members killed during the violence told Human Rights Watch that they had little hope for obtaining justice for their loss. To receive financial reparations from the government, the families had to sign a settlement forfeiting their rights to file a court case against the army for civil damage.

“Prime Minister Yingluck came to power promising justice to the victims of political violence,” Adams said. “By siding with the army chief in his attempts to shut down investigations into army abuses, she is breaking her promise to the victims and the Thai people.”

And as well as identifying the culpability of the army in some of the deaths, it also identifies the black shirts, who are often speculated as being a group quite separate from the protesters, as being a heavily armed element of the UDD; an element that was responsible for the deaths of soldiers, police and civilians.

From March to May 2010, the UDD, known as the “Red Shirts,” held mass protests against the government of then-Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. A Human Rights Watch report in May 2011, “Descent into Chaos: Thailand’s 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown,” concluded that the high death toll and injuries resulted from excessive and unnecessary lethal force by the Thai army and other security forces. The high number of civilian casualties – including unarmed demonstrators, volunteer medics, reporters, photographers, and bystanders – resulted in part from the government’s designation of “live fire zones” around the UDD protest sites in Bangkok.

Armed elements of the UDD, including heavily armed “Black Shirt” militants, were responsible for deadly attacks on soldiers, police, and civilians. Some UDD leaders incited violence with inflammatory speeches to demonstrators, including urging their supporters to carry out riots, arson attacks, and looting. Arson attacks in and outside Bangkok caused billions of dollars in damage.

Personally i think if a fair and balanced investigation is to be under-taken, (which i don't for a minute think will happen for my reasons given above), then the spotlight should not just be on alleged atrocities committed by the army, as it seems to be, but also on the alleged atrocities commited by the UDD. They were the ones provoking the situation. They were the ones we can say without a doubt were breaking the law. Amsterdam, as the human rights lawyer he calls himself, should be all over it like a rash, shouting from the rooftops for these men in black to be identified by name and brought to justice. That he never mentions it, reveals the real depth of his interest in human rights, not of course that it has ever really been a secret. I can understand why his two-faced sanctimonious nonsense has got under the skin of Prayuth, and led him to rashly hitting out in the only way he feels he easily can, but he would have been much better keeping his own counsel. Once you get in a spat with a man like Amsterdam, you will find it all too easy to end up descending to his level.

I don't have any significant issues with this, nor would any sane person given the evenhandedness of the HRW report..However it is slightly weird that you conclude with an attack on Amsterdam and some conciliatory remarks about Prayuth.Whatever one thinks about Robert Amsterdam he is not the villain of the piece here, nor even a major player.Prayuth is clearly concerned that the chickens may be coming home to roost (though of course they never will) for his alleged criminal brutality but your reaction is to show sympathy and understanding.Hmmm...a strange take on the morality of the episode.

As a postscript I think David Araanovitch of the London Times makes a very relevant point.

"Now my point is not that Mr X or Mr Y are liars or frauds. I think they believe what they say. It is rather that they inhabit an extreme end of the confirmation bias spectrum — a spectrum that we all appear on. We all have the tendency to look at evidence and then try to interpret it to suit our original views. But some people do this more than others.

The American psychologist Philip Tetlock spent 20 years looking at predictions. He found that those who had one strong hypothesis performed consistently worse when making predictions than those who harboured multiple hypotheses. Simply, they had much greater confirmation bias.

Most of us, at some point, are prepared to change our minds or to try to accommodate contrary information when it becomes very strong. "

In the Thai political crisis it's clear that too many of us are operating at the extreme end of the confirmation bias spectrum.

Edited August 23, 2012 by jayboy

[rixalex]

I don't have any significant issues with this, nor would any sane person given the evenhandedness of the HRW report..However it is slightly weird that you conclude with an attack on Amsterdam and some conciliatory remarks about Prayuth.Whatever one thinks about Robert Amsterdam he is not the villain of the piece here, nor even a major player.Prayuth is clearly concerned that the chickens may be coming home to roost (though of course they never will) for his alleged criminal brutality but your reaction is to show sympathy and understanding.Hmmm...a strange take on the morality of the episode.

I will admit i did wander a bit in my conclusion away from the main point i was making - that whatever appalling behaviour we believe Prayuth guilty of, don't for a second believe that the current government won't jump straight into bed with him (i suspect they already have), if it means being able to use this issue for Thaksin's benefit. And these people we are talking about, who are alleged to have suffered, are potentially being denied justice, are effectively their own people! This is how they treat their friends... can you imagine how they treat their enemies?! Actually, scratch that, you don't need your imagination for that!

As for my sympathy with Prayuth, well my position is this. I think the army made mistakes that led to lives being lost, and for that, justice needs to be sought. And whilst there may have been some individual cases, I don't think in the main that the army acted intentionally maliciously, nor that it went out trying to kill those people not involved in attacking them. Now this is usually the point where red sympathisers scoff in derision and point to all the other times in history when the military has acted horrifically. Well, i wasn't around to witness any of those times. I have read about them of course, and they sound brutal. I don't attempt to deny they happened. I just don't happen to believe, that is what happened on this occasion.

As for Amsterdam, you say you don't think he is the villain of the piece, well i disagree - i think he is one of them. He works for Thaksin does he not, and we seem to have established without much protest from you, that Thaksin is now, via his proxy government, working towards a way in which the lives that were lost can be effectively used as a bargaining chip in exchange for his freedom. Amsterdam may well argue he is simply an employee doing his job, but he calls himself a human rights lawyer, does he not? Perhaps i am being totally naive here, but i thought that meant something - i though at the very least, that meant caring about human rights.

[Moruya]

Interesting interview with Robert Amsterdam

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Thaivisa Connect App

The usual one-eyed claptrap from the supposed lawyer.

Was it my imagination or did I hear him refer to Chairman Thaksin?

Democrats "neo-fascists"? Must be all the Dem Boot Camps and villages set up around the country

[Moruya]

Human Rights Watch officially reports on the appalling behaviour of General Prayuth

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/08/23/thailand-army-chief-interfering-investigations

In some respects they are right but in the correct context you can understand Prayuth's position.

Would you expect an investigative body to openly point the finger before a conclusion has been reached? I wouldn't. All parties should be silent as it could prejudice the case for a fair trial.

Would you expect the head of the army to take these missives lying down? I wouldn't

The PTP did the right thing telling the DSI to shut up. The DSI has been both sycophantic and naive and has tainted its case by these premature proclamations to the degree that the army could call it as a predetermined case. That would leave an even bigger mess.