Extradition With Uk & Thailand

[IMA_FARANG]

he has income for ever if the authorities cant take his properties in the UK.

-------------

Not sure about the U.K. but it was the U.S. he would be:

* charged with suspecion of growing those 100 plants for sale.

* as he canot prove (at least without appearing in court) he did not obtain his asserts through the sale of drugs his assets could be fozen and he could not sell or remove them...especially out of the country.

* as he admits to not paying (regarded as unlawfully evading) taxes all his assets could be frozen anyhow until his tax obligation was settled.

* Failure to appear before a court is an offense...so he is now a fugitive fleeing the law.

* He admittedly has or had a condo in Thailand....and that could also be considered as possible assets derived from his dugs income.

All that in the U.S. is enough to get a warrent for his dentention...at least for questioning...and would be enough for an extradition request to be made to Thailand.

So, if he was a U.S. citizen he would be in deep, deep Do-Dah now...and most likely on his involuntary enforced return to the U.S.....where the police would be waiting for his arrival.

But I admit, I don't know the situation under U.K. law.

[sydneyjed]

Australian Federal police have now ramped up their presence in Thailand and have a number of operatives now working out of Bangkok...they do also help in the location of our Commonwealth allies in the UK on the odd occasion from time to time...Applying for a new passport regardless of where it is issued would be likened to putting a neon light on your relatives head and walking down sukhumvit road...Living a hermit budhist monk existence here might as well be compared to doing 4 years in jail(two n' half with good behaviour)..Just tell him to go back and face up to this..do the time then he can just come back and play out the rest of his life without looking over his shoulder all the time...believe me it's not worth it!!

[Baerboxer]

Thanks for the info guys, yes I agree about couch thing, not a chance, I got a work permit and a life of my own.

2 final questions:

Can you renew from Thailand if it has only 2 years on it?

It's confirmed, if you got money and you have been living illegally in Thailand, you won't go to jail if you can afford a ticket, fine and or bribes?

Thanks guys, feel like have all the info we need now.

You can renew a British passport at anytime. If the current passport has not expired extra time will be added onto the new passport expiry date up to a maximum. My old passport had 6 years left, but all the pages were full. I received a new passport 2 weeks after applying to HK.

HK complete the checks, take the payment, and then send off to London where the passport is produced and sent back to Thailand. I suspect that somewhere in this process there will be a flag that your relative is bailed to appear in court on a certain date. Applying for a new passport with 2 years left on the old one may raise warning bells. Also, bear in mind that the existing passport will be cancelled as soon as the application for a new passport is received, regardless of whether a new passport is issued or not.

Jumping bail will just cause bigger problems, and I think an extradtiton request will be made and acted upon. Always better to go back and show remorse.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

The reason the sentence is so big is due to a heavy previous (cannabis selling again) and not paid any tax in 20 years.

They are claiming he makes 500,000 a year, which is crap of course.

A tax for illegal activities? Are they trying to tax his "income" from selling drugs?

Illegally gained wealth and assets can be siezed. If he proves he got them legally then he is liable for unpaid tax, plus interest, plus fines and/or imprisonment. He's in deep deep brown stuff if HRMC are after him. They won't forget or go away.

[NBD]

There is no statute of limitations for this offence in the UK so he would be liable to prosecution even if he returned in 15 years for life saving surgery.

I would like to point out two faults in your reasoning.

He is now age 60, the CPS would very reluctant to jail someone aged 75.

If he were to return due to illness at age 75, at least as a criminal he would still be entitled to NHS care.

My advice would be for him to stay free as long as he can, then use his advanced age as a 'get out of jail free' card, should he ever have to return. Even 5 years in Thailand would be worthwhile and significantly reduce his chance of jail time on return to the UK. It's considered bad form to jail a pensioner.

Have a look here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/447081.stm people do indeed get sent to prison in later life. Although age and medical considerations might come into it, I'd have thought hiding out in Thailand for the intervening 15 years would count pretty strongly against him.

Then again, it might well all just have been closed off and forgotten about in that time.

Still not someone I'd want hanging around me.

[bwalker1973]

All solicitors in the UK give you a what you might get approach from the sentencing guidelines.

If a solictor says 3-4 years this is the maximum amount if you went on trial.

Don't forget if he pleaded guilty for the offence you get a third of.

100 plants is not that bad people sentences have been ranging from community service to 12 months in prison. Plus you only do half and then home detention curfew after four months if accepted on the program.

As for asset recovery, if you have already been sentenced and in default of the sentence, and because it forms part of the same package is in fact a breach of european rights, you should not me imprisoned for a debt.

Also if you have already been convicted of an offence, and another sentence was imposed for the same offence which is known as double jeopardy thailand will not extradite you under their article 5 of the extradition act.

Passports can be updated and renewed at any length, but the arresting officer will be notified of any updates changes etc.

If your looking to go back to uk without being lifted, change name in your passport, and fly as soon as you get the passport. No checks are made when leaving the airport, only arrivals.

[Soutpeel]

As for asset recovery, if you have already been sentenced and in default of the sentence, and because it forms part of the same package is in fact a breach of european rights, you should not me imprisoned for a debt.

Also if you have already been convicted of an offence, and another sentence was imposed for the same offence which is known as double jeopardy thailand will not extradite you under their article 5 of the extradition act.

Passports can be updated and renewed at any length, but the arresting officer will be notified of any updates changes etc.

If your looking to go back to uk without being lifted, change name in your passport, and fly as soon as you get the passport. No checks are made when leaving the airport, only arrivals.

On your first point you are misinterpreting this rule....you are correct you cannot be imprisoned for debt, but It wouldnt apply to this case...

On your second point...where is the double jeopardy in this case...being convicted of drugs and then doing a bunk is not double jeopardy..he would be charged as seperate offense

change your name in your new PP....how ?....deed poll ?....and you think they wouldnt know in the UK

As i have mentioned, the UK doesnt even have to ask for extradition from Thailand, all they have to do is tell Thailand he is wanted in the UK on drugs charges and has skipped out and Thailand will deport him once they catch up with him.....which they will eventually

[TommoPhysicist]

As i have mentioned, the UK doesnt even have to ask for extradition from Thailand, all they have to do is tell Thailand he is wanted in the UK on drugs charges and has skipped out and Thailand will deport him once they catch up with him.....which they will eventually

I wish you would stop posting this rubbish, it's just not true.

[Soutpeel]

As i have mentioned, the UK doesnt even have to ask for extradition from Thailand, all they have to do is tell Thailand he is wanted in the UK on drugs charges and has skipped out and Thailand will deport him once they catch up with him.....which they will eventually

I wish you would stop posting this rubbish, it's just not true.

Why is it rubbish ?....are you saying they will not or can't deport him ?

[RAZZELL]

Can't believe the Mods are letting this thread run but hey ho...

My input..

Tell him to come to Thailand and throw his passport away, hide and stay off the radar...

With regards to the UK...

He will be found guilty in his absence and a confiscation order granted...It is up to him TO PROVE how he earnt his money legitimately and "acquired" his "assets"...probably not easy to do if he hasn't had a job/paid tax in 20 years!

He is royally f****d and the HMRC and CPS using the Proceeds of Crime Act will take as much they can. He will also get extra "bird" if he doesn't pay. NOTE - the Police/CPS can use the Proceeds of Crime Act even if he is not convicted of any crime!

And to the OP by posting you are aiding and abetting or "conspiring" to help your cousin evade arrest/sentence (obstructing/perverting the course of justice).

I'd change your IP address!

RAZZ

Edited August 28, 2012 by RAZZELL

[TommoPhysicist]

As i have mentioned, the UK doesnt even have to ask for extradition from Thailand, all they have to do is tell Thailand he is wanted in the UK on drugs charges and has skipped out and Thailand will deport him once they catch up with him.....which they will eventually

I wish you would stop posting this rubbish, it's just not true.

Why is it rubbish ?....are you saying they will not or can't deport him ?

Nobody can be deported to their home country from any other country merely at the request of their home countries police.

(If it could be done, Thaksin would have been returned to Thailand a long time ago, Ronnie Biggs etc.)

Edited August 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[RAZZELL]

Errr... Assange?

Yet to be charged or face trial in Sweden? Merely wanted for questioning as a "person of interest"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority

http://en.wikipedia...._Arrest_Warrant

RAZZ

Edited August 28, 2012 by RAZZELL

[TommoPhysicist]

Errr... Assange?

Yet to be charged or face trial in Sweden? Merely wanted for questioning as a "person of interest"?

http://en.wikipedia....ution_Authority

http://en.wikipedia...._Arrest_Warrant

RAZZ

I believe several countries are trying extradition, and he has decided to voluntarily surrender himself to a country of his choice (Sweden) to avoid extradition to the worst of the bunch (USA). I believe he is an Australian citizen.

Nothing to do with him being deported anywhere at the request of a local police force.

Edited August 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[endure]

There is no statute of limitations for this offence in the UK so he would be liable to prosecution even if he returned in 15 years for life saving surgery.

I would like to point out two faults in your reasoning.

He is now age 60, the CPS would very reluctant to jail someone aged 75.

As of 2010 there were more than 2,000 pensioners in gaol in the UK so I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

[TommoPhysicist]

There is no statute of limitations for this offence in the UK so he would be liable to prosecution even if he returned in 15 years for life saving surgery.

I would like to point out two faults in your reasoning.

He is now age 60, the CPS would very reluctant to jail someone aged 75.

As of 2010 there were more than 2,000 pensioners in gaol in the UK so I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

People reaching pensionable age while serving life sentences is a bit different, but usually most of them are released early.

Very few actual pensioners being newly sentenced for anything except the most serious crimes.

[RAZZELL]

Errr... Assange?

Yet to be charged or face trial in Sweden? Merely wanted for questioning as a "person of interest"?

http://en.wikipedia....ution_Authority

http://en.wikipedia...._Arrest_Warrant

RAZZ

I believe several countries are trying extradition, and he has decided to voluntarily surrender himself to a country of his choice (Sweden) to avoid extradition to the worst of the bunch (USA). I believe he is an Australian citizen.

Nothing to do with him being deported anywhere at the request of a local police force.

Err...have you read the links?

The only arrest warrant which has been issued is by Sweden on sex charges. He is not voluntarily surrendering himself which is why he's been fighting extradition from the UK to Sweden for the last year and is now holed up in the Ecuadorean Embassy!

There may or may not be a "sealed" extradition warrant to the USA.

All of which is a bit off topic.

RAZZ

Edited August 28, 2012 by RAZZELL

[Soutpeel]

As i have mentioned, the UK doesnt even have to ask for extradition from Thailand, all they have to do is tell Thailand he is wanted in the UK on drugs charges and has skipped out and Thailand will deport him once they catch up with him.....which they will eventually

I wish you would stop posting this rubbish, it's just not true.

Why is it rubbish ?....are you saying they will not or can't deport him ?

Nobody can be deported to their home country from any other country merely at the request of their home countries police.

(If it could be done, Thaksin would have been returned to Thailand a long time ago, Ronnie Biggs etc.)

Who said anything about deporting him to his own country, all Thailand would do is thrown him out or not let him back into Thailand as being an "undesirable"....

you are getting mixed up between deportation and extradition.

Think for a minute about what happened to Gary Glitter, he did his time in Vietnam was deported, he didnt want to go back to the UK, but in the end had to because no regional country would let him in, ie Cambodia, HK etc, do you think those countries were following the case that closely to know his planned movements, of course not, all the British goverment had to do was let the other countries know he was an "undesireable" and they wouldnt let him in any of those countries, and he wasnt even on the lam, he had done his time in Vietnam.

The key his not how clever the person is being avoiding authorities but how badly they want him back in the UK

[TommoPhysicist]

The key his not how clever the person is being avoiding authorities but how badly they want him back in the UK

So now we all agree.

Do we also all agree that someone who jumped bail for growing 20k of pot is not going to be considered a serious criminal by anyone, and therefore not really sought after.

[Soutpeel]

The key his not how clever the person is being avoiding authorities but how badly they want him back in the UK

So now we all agree.

Do we also all agree that someone who jumped bail for growing 20k of pot is not going to be considered a serious criminal by anyone, and therefore not really sought after.

Maybe so, but there is also the small matter of tax evasion as well and I quote:

"Yes, he made about 40,000 a year tax free, they are saying he made 500,000 illegally, deposited x amount into banks and own property in Thailand. 20 years of not paying tax"

Therefore in addtion to Britain's finest being after him, HMRC will want to "talk" to him as well....so there is more to this than 20k worth of weed involved....if they are saying 500k quid is involved, plenty of motivation for them to get him back in the UK

[NancyL]

As i have mentioned, the UK doesnt even have to ask for extradition from Thailand, all they have to do is tell Thailand he is wanted in the UK on drugs charges and has skipped out and Thailand will deport him once they catch up with him.....which they will eventually

I wish you would stop posting this rubbish, it's just not true.

Why is it rubbish ?....are you saying they will not or can't deport him ?

Nobody can be deported to their home country from any other country merely at the request of their home countries police.

(If it could be done, Thaksin would have been returned to Thailand a long time ago, Ronnie Biggs etc.)

As I understand, the major reason why Thaksin continues to roam around the globe at will is because Thailand hasn't actually requested extradition of him. This could happen with the OP's cousin, also.

Edited August 28, 2012 by NancyL

[MrRed]

There is no statute of limitations for this offence in the UK so he would be liable to prosecution even if he returned in 15 years for life saving surgery.

I would like to point out two faults in your reasoning.

He is now age 60, the CPS would very reluctant to jail someone aged 75.

As of 2010 there were more than 2,000 pensioners in gaol in the UK so I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

People reaching pensionable age while serving life sentences is a bit different, but usually most of them are released early.

Very few actual pensioners being newly sentenced for anything except the most serious crimes.

They are all sent on rehabilitation courses to Thailand now

[lopburi3]

There seems to be nothing unclear with below and involving drugs would only make it much more likely to be taken seriously.

11. According to the Immigration Act of Thailand B.E. 2522 (1979), foreigners who fall into any of the following categories are prohibited to enter Thailand: .....

(7) Having behaviour which could cause possible danger to the public; or having the likelihood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace, safety and security of the public or to the security of the nation; or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

[Badbanker]

Remember for the past more than 1 year Thai Immigration has had a fixed policy of deportation to the country of origin only. Before this, it was deportation to a country of no refusal like Hong Kong for Brits.

If this person is arrested and goes to the IDC he will be deported to the UK!

If the Thai Police arrest you and find you have an outstanding charge involving drugs in your home country, rest assured you will be black listed from Thailand. Go home voluntarily to somewhere else in Europe and handle your affairs from there, but resolve the issue and then come back to Thailand.

[Bingo66]

I believe hes waiting for the answer of bail (aiding and abetting) for his wife (farang) Thursday to find out whats going on. If he will get a 50,000 - 100,000 charge instead of complete asset seizure he me return and serve the time. However he's in a house under a thai name away from the capital, he only goes to the gym and shops, and has a international driving license under a different name. So the changes of him ever being caught before he dies is slim.

I'm also not worried about any bs aiding and abetting charges, my GF's dad is very very high up in BKK police ... It's not like driving a family member to a house and asking public's opinion / advice is harboring a fugitive.

It's also very hard to take very serious, when I smoked myself through university just a few years ago ....

Thanks for replies guys, it's a very interesting / informative thread and very helpful for most people I imagine.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Bingo66

[rixalex]

I'm also not worried about any bs aiding and abetting charges, my GF's dad is very very high up in BKK police ... It's not like driving a family member to a house and asking public's opinion / advice is harboring a fugitive.

As far as the aiding and abetting charge is concerned, i don't think the danger of that comes from the Thai side of things.UK authorities would be more interested in that, and you can be sure, if they track him down, they'll become aware that the suspect had a relative living in the same area of the world, and from there start drawing conclusions about your possible role.

Anyway, you seem very confident that neither you or your cousin will be troubled by the law... probably as confident i would guess as your cousin was prior to being caught.

[Soutpeel]

has a international driving license under a different name.

so he must have a forged British drivers license then as well ?

[Soutpeel]

I'm also not worried about any bs aiding and abetting charges, my GF's dad is very very high up in BKK police ... It's not like driving a family member to a house and asking public's opinion / advice is harboring a fugitive.

It's also very hard to take very serious, when I smoked myself through university just a few years ago ....

Thanks for replies guys, it's a very interesting / informative thread and very helpful for most people I imagine.

So what part of Pattaya is he living in ?...

Also on aiding and abetting....the BiB here would have not input, its the British who would be charging you not the Thai police !

[RAZZELL]

OP - simple really.

By asking these questions you are breaking the law in the UK...

RAZZ

Edited August 29, 2012 by RAZZELL

[geriatrickid]

The key his not how clever the person is being avoiding authorities but how badly they want him back in the UK

So now we all agree.

Do we also all agree that someone who jumped bail for growing 20k of pot is not going to be considered a serious criminal by anyone, and therefore not really sought after.

You may not consider him an undesirable, but the offense is sufficient to bar entry into Thailand. Yes, someone can fly under the radar for years, but sooner or later he will get caught.

[geriatrickid]

BTW, failure to show when charged doesn't grant protection. One can be convicted in absentia and the judge will not be understanding if the accused has intentionally absconded. If this wasn't the case, accused felons would simply go on holidays and not show up in court.