Child Abandonment..........a Tragic Tale

geriatrickid · August 31, 2012

The Canadian "family" would not have a legal right to remove the debilitated patient without consent of the spouse. You just cannot remove someone because you say there is a relationship. This then gives rise to 2 questions;

1. Did the "wife" agree to the removal? and,

2. Was she even the wife?

One does not know if the man left his former Canadian family in comfortable circumstances and provided for them after his departure. Thailand is full of men that have buggered off on their families and started new ones in Thailand. It is therefore understandable why the family would have no concern about the new Thai family arrangement. If my father had left my mother and young family for some dame in Thailand, I wouldn't have even bothered to claim his corpse. This is how children think and it is their right to feel this way. The assumption that they have acted to protect their inheritance is just that. There cannot be much of an inheritance if the man could not afford nursing care in Thailand. The family would also be unaware if the man had made a will taking care of his Thai family. (I doubt this guy even has a will though.)

In respect to making claims under the Canadian benefit system for this child, the Canadian taxpayers have no desire to fund the foreign families of destitute nationals. I doubt there will be much assistance forthcoming. The onus was on the elderly gentleman to plan for his family's care, something which he apparently did not do. That speaks more to his mentality than anything else. It is unfortunate for the child, but Thailand has orphanages and the foreigners who are moved, can act accordingly. There's more to the story that has not been shared. I think it is unfair to come down on the Canadian family. At least they came to collect the man and dump him on the taxpayers of Canada, who can then pay for the care of someone that probably didn't pay enough taxes over the years to cover what he benefited from in a few years.

barefoot1988 · August 31, 2012

maybe the family wanted the child to be with her mother. i dont know, way too many possibilities. maybe the family felt it was best for the child to remain with the mother. maybe the family was feeling bitter about the thai spouse. since you did mention you know a fair bit of both story, i would assume you had spoken to both the family and the spouse, so what gives their decision?

theblether · August 31, 2012

A lot of good points......thanks very much.

To bring some clarity to the situation........I was privy as an onlooker to a conversation where the Canadian sons turned up out of the blue to see their father. The first question by the wife was " why did you not let me know you were coming ". Answer there came none. I reckon it's a fair assumption to suggest that the sons thought it would be a good idea to turn up out of the blue to see how their father was being ordinarily treated. Once again I can see a logic in that so no comment there.

They found their father in his normal state, clean, properly fed, watching TV. I make a point of mentioning that he was clean as keeping and adult clean who is suffering from a stroke is a lot of work for anyone, never mind a relatively slight Thai lady. ( adult pampers were one of her main expenses ).

Money was ordinarily tight within the family, to my recollection the monthly pension income was circa 30,000 baht a month. That figure looks achievable but when you take into account some of the extra medical related expenses in this situation you can understand why there would be crisis moments. The family lived in a large single room ( modern, air condition etc ) as the mother had negotiated a special deal with the landlord which aided affordability. However as the daughter was getting older she knew that she would have to move to a larger home, so she had secured a two bedroom house costing around 8,000 baht a month.

When the family turned up they organized a nurse to assist with looking after their father, and organized some other aid essentials to be purchased. During the period of this visit the house move took place and I was quite delighted at the idea of the gentleman in question having access to a garden and his daughter getting her own room. Things were looking up. After the Canadian family went home I heard word that the funding wasn't coming through for the nurse. Apparently the sons had run out of money themselves and were trying to get more money together. Okay, let's accept that, however you can imagine the stress level that visited upon the Thai family.

Let's not get too wrapped in a ya boo situation here........I know that this gentleman is dearly loved by both families, and I know that everyone has worked hard to act in his interests. I do know that the Thai wife did say to the Canadian family that they should consider taking their father home if they did not trust her to look after him. At that point the offer was refused. You can imagine emotions running high on both sides.

So to that extent, GK is correct, I believe in the end the decision was taken to remove Dad from Thailand and return him to Canada, and I believe that decision was agreed to by the Thai wife who was finding herself in a well nigh impossible and exhausting situation.

Right, I'm as certain as I can be that the little girl has been properly registered with the Canadian authorities, I'm certain that the Canadian Consulate have knowledge of this gentleman, I can remember suggesting that course of action a couple of years ago and I was told that it had been done already. I'm on the case already, I'm getting my girlfriend to verify all the documentation and have it copied and forwarded to me.

I have decided to provide crisis funding to the child on the quiet for the next few months, I will funnel it through my girlfriend. Crisis funding is different from long term funding. I have a very large Canadian family and I have visited the country many times. I have two cousins of substance in the country, it was only overnight that the penny dropped with me that my cousins both know of this child as they have seen her photo on Facebook and were intrigued by the story of the Canadian gentleman being looked after in Thailand in the circumstances I described.

Once I have the documentation to hand I can forward it to my cousins, one of whom worked for 35 years in child care before recently retiring and ask for her to assist. I know that won't be a problem......the other cousin is talking about flying into Thailand this winter to meet me and if she does she will meet this little girl. As soon as she does I know that the little girl with have two strong advocates in Canada. I believe with a combination of the information supplied by TV members here ( and thanks very much for what you are telling me ) along with my Canadian family it should be relatively straightforward to sort this situation out.

I accept that the topic title may not sit well with some of you, the abandonment was not on the part of the father, the abandonment was on the part of the Canadian family, who at this point are their fathers advocates and custodians. As such they have responsibility to ensure that his paternal responsibilities are taken care of, at this point they are body swerving that responsibility. That doesn't sit well with me.

In the meantime, as I said, I have decided to provide crisis funding to the little girl and I will funnel it quietly through my girlfriend. I believe that at the end of this process some funding will be forthcoming from Canada, and that is the realistic and fair long term answer.

This is a tragic tale and I have a lot of sympathy and empathy with all of the actors in this matter, including the Canadian family. Sometimes it takes an outsider to point people in the right direction at times of emotional crisis, and maybe that will be the case here.

As mentioned earlier though.......if there is one lesson to be learned here, it is incumbent upon everyone bringing up children in Thailand to have arrangements put in place to ensure that their wishes are known if anything goes wrong.

Addendum.....I will see if their is proof of a legally registered marriage. I assume that if there is then if ( when ) the gentleman passes away the wife will have a claim on his pension?

.

Edited August 31, 2012 by theblether

evadgib · August 31, 2012

Your last point is critical, particularly for Brits. If anyone is sitting on the fence re getting married they should understand that their state pension dies with them if they're not married & live in Thailand.

Edited August 31, 2012 by evadgib

TommoPhysicist · August 31, 2012

Your last point is critical, particularly for Brits. If anyone is sitting on the fence re getting married they should understand that their state pension dies with them if they're not married & live in Thailand.

UK state pension dies with you, even if you are married.

theblether · August 31, 2012

Can we get clarity on that? Yes or no re Brits? Canadians? Americans? Australians?

This is not a pension thread however as GuestHouse pointed out this type of situation is likely to become more common.......so it's relevant.

I know that the Thai wife doesn't think or expect there to be a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow, I think she would be shocked if she ever came into a lump sum, however she is rightly concerned that there is no monthly income allocated for the child.

Mario2008 · August 31, 2012

Don't forget there are two parties:

- the wife

and

- the child

Both have their own rights. People often overlook the rights of the child, but they might be stronger then that of the mother.

evadgib · August 31, 2012

Your last point is critical, particularly for Brits. If anyone is sitting on the fence re getting married they should understand that their state pension dies with them if they're not married & live in Thailand.

UK state pension dies with you, even if you are married.

My answer is correct & was posted because of the relevance to this thread.

Edited August 31, 2012 by evadgib

Trembly · August 31, 2012

Don't forget there are two parties:

- the wife

and

- the child

Both have their own rights. People often overlook the rights of the child, but they might be stronger then that of the mother.

Quite.

I have a feeling that if blether is right about the little girl's Canadian citizenship then she will probably be getting financial aid from the Canadian welfare system in whichever form / category entirely on the strength of her status as a Canadian minor.

I don't mean to bicker but I just want to add that I consider it strange for some people to think that the Canadian welfare system should be unconcerned with the child when she is the biological child of a Canadian man who, by the very fact that he is a pensioner, is a man who has paid his dues to the welfare pot. HE was a taxpayer too and it was HIS money that he earned in the first place.

theblether · August 31, 2012

then she will probably be getting financial aid from the Canadian welfare system in whichever form / category entirely on the strength of her status as a Canadian minor.

At the moment there is no funding coming through for the child from any source.....I'm hoping for one of our fellow Canadian members to shine a light on what, if anything, she may be entitled to from the Canadian State.

The child is born of a Canadian father.....he has been tragically struck down, I would find it hard to believe that a progressive country such as Canada would turn their back on a citizen child living overseas in these circumstances. .

Edited August 31, 2012 by theblether

billd766 · September 1, 2012

The Canadian "family" would not have a legal right to remove the debilitated patient without consent of the spouse. You just cannot remove someone because you say there is a relationship. This then gives rise to 2 questions;

1. Did the "wife" agree to the removal? and,

2. Was she even the wife?

One does not know if the man left his former Canadian family in comfortable circumstances and provided for them after his departure. Thailand is full of men that have buggered off on their families and started new ones in Thailand. It is therefore understandable why the family would have no concern about the new Thai family arrangement. If my father had left my mother and young family for some dame in Thailand, I wouldn't have even bothered to claim his corpse. This is how children think and it is their right to feel this way. The assumption that they have acted to protect their inheritance is just that. There cannot be much of an inheritance if the man could not afford nursing care in Thailand. The family would also be unaware if the man had made a will taking care of his Thai family. (I doubt this guy even has a will though.)

In respect to making claims under the Canadian benefit system for this child, the Canadian taxpayers have no desire to fund the foreign families of destitute nationals. I doubt there will be much assistance forthcoming. The onus was on the elderly gentleman to plan for his family's care, something which he apparently did not do. That speaks more to his mentality than anything else. It is unfortunate for the child, but Thailand has orphanages and the foreigners who are moved, can act accordingly. There's more to the story that has not been shared. I think it is unfair to come down on the Canadian family. At least they came to collect the man and dump him on the taxpayers of Canada, who can then pay for the care of someone that probably didn't pay enough taxes over the years to cover what he benefited from in a few years.

I am one of the men you so scathingly sneer at who left his wife and son in the UK and then divorced and remarried a Thai lady.

Of course the fact that my son was 19 and working and my wife got the house, car etc and alimony is irrelevant to you.

I still have a good relationship with my son and he understood some of the reasons I left.

In fact one of the only reasons I stayed married in the UK was for my son.

Before you blunered off into a diatribe it may have been a good idea to read the thread and try to understand what few facts there are.

The Blether has decided off his own volition to try to help a Thai friend and her daughter from a situation not of their making or choice.

Nobody on this thread ahs any idea of the full facts, though the Blether has as much as he can from the Thai side and hopefully he, or or someone else maybe will be able to get at least the Canadian officials knowledge and can proceed from there.

IF the gentleman concerned HAS made a will then his Thai wife may know where it is and the contents.

If she is legally married (and she probably is) AND the gentleman has got a Canadian birth certificate for his daughter then they are in a much stronger legal position the the children in Canada.

I suspect but don't know that perhaps the children in Canada may try to become the legal guardians of their father but any court would want to know about his current wife and family and their wishes also.

Finally I would like to give my personal thanks to the Blether for all the help he has given his friends in Thailand and the gratitude that someone has actually DONE something other than talking.

mike123ca · September 1, 2012

Don't forget there are two parties:

- the wife

and

- the child

Both have their own rights. People often overlook the rights of the child, but they might be stronger then that of the mother.

Quite.

I have a feeling that if blether is right about the little girl's Canadian citizenship then she will probably be getting financial aid from the Canadian welfare system in whichever form / category entirely on the strength of her status as a Canadian minor.

I don't mean to bicker but I just want to add that I consider it strange for some people to think that the Canadian welfare system should be unconcerned with the child when she is the biological child of a Canadian man who, by the very fact that he is a pensioner, is a man who has paid his dues to the welfare pot. HE was a taxpayer too and it was HIS money that he earned in the first place.

Welfare is a provincial jurisdiction. The federal government doesn't get involved with welfare.

mike123ca · September 1, 2012

I'm Canadian, married to a Thai with children.

I looked into child allowance where they give money to families

with young children. Turns out almost all entitlement programs

require residency in Canada. Being Canadian outside Canada means nothing.

Reading the story I can understand the family bring their father back home. But I don't think they would have the right

to take the child to Canada. That sounds like kidnapping. If the child is not Canadian then you will have an extra layer of problems

by trying to bring the child to the country.

If the child is Canadian and is in Canada, then she could get welfare, but if she is in Thailand and with Thai citizenship, then I suspect the

Canadian government would say it is a Thai problem.

theblether · September 1, 2012

@Bild....Thanks for your kind words......

@mike123ca.......Thanks for your input, I can see the logic in the Canadian government saying that it's a Thai problem.

For the purpose of clarity, there is no suggestion that the Canadian family intends to take the child to Canada.

It would appear from what mike says effectively the little girl is on her own........there is no guaranteed funding from the Canadian state. Mike, do you know if the pension will be transferred if the husband passes away?

.

Edited September 1, 2012 by theblether

mike123ca · September 1, 2012

@Bild....Thanks for your kind words......

@mike123ca.......Thanks for your input, I can see the logic in the Canadian government saying that it's a Thai problem.

For the purpose of clarity, there is no suggestion that the Canadian family intends to take the child to Canada.

It would appear from what mike says effectively the little girl is on her own........there is no guaranteed funding from the Canadian state. Mike, do you know if the pension will be transferred if the husband passes away?

.

There is OAS and CPP (excluding Quebec) and maybe a private pension and or RRSP's.

Off hand I don't know which ones he has, nor does it matter. The monies that are owed to him

should always go to him. Should he pass away I believe his wife may be entitled to make

a claim if she is 60 years or older ( you can get information of the federal government at www.canada.ca ).

I don't think a child can claim for pension, but maybe for child maintenance from the person collecting the pension.

Trembly · September 1, 2012

I'm Canadian, married to a Thai with children.

I looked into child allowance where they give money to families

with young children. Turns out almost all entitlement programs

require residency in Canada. Being Canadian outside Canada means nothing.

Reading the story I can understand the family bring their father back home. But I don't think they would have the right

to take the child to Canada. That sounds like kidnapping. If the child is not Canadian then you will have an extra layer of problems

by trying to bring the child to the country.

If the child is Canadian and is in Canada, then she could get welfare, but if she is in Thailand and with Thai citizenship, then I suspect the

Canadian government would say it is a Thai problem.

Not disputing because I simply don't know.

All I've got to say about that is

I don't and have never depended on Canadian welfare but I just think it is rotten that the little girl should be withheld from her father's tax contributions just because she doesn't happen to be a resident of Canada.

It seems to me that a very blunt object is and has been applied to a rather delicate task in general.

mike123ca · September 2, 2012

I'm Canadian, married to a Thai with children.

I looked into child allowance where they give money to families

with young children. Turns out almost all entitlement programs

require residency in Canada. Being Canadian outside Canada means nothing.

Reading the story I can understand the family bring their father back home. But I don't think they would have the right

to take the child to Canada. That sounds like kidnapping. If the child is not Canadian then you will have an extra layer of problems

by trying to bring the child to the country.

If the child is Canadian and is in Canada, then she could get welfare, but if she is in Thailand and with Thai citizenship, then I suspect the

Canadian government would say it is a Thai problem.

Not disputing because I simply don't know.

All I've got to say about that is

I don't and have never depended on Canadian welfare but I just think it is rotten that the little girl should be withheld from her father's tax contributions just because she doesn't happen to be a resident of Canada.

It seems to me that a very blunt object is and has been applied to a rather delicate task in general.

Maybe the young girl can make a claim for child maintenance or inheritance from her father.

If the mother is legally married to the father, I believe she cam make a claim for his government pension.

TommoPhysicist · September 2, 2012

British law .... claims for child maintenance cannot be made against pensions or savings, only earnings.

Canadian Law ....... usually derived from British Law.

soi41 · September 2, 2012

What a sweet story! There are millions of children like this little girl in Thailand, IMO it is up to the mother to support her daughter, why should Canadian taxpayers pay for offsprings of expats in Asia?

Blether mentioned that the father was living on a pension of 30k baht, to me that is a indication that he has contributed very little (if at all) to the pensionsystem, so no it is not HIS money being used for the welfare of the child, but the taxpayers.

@blether. Why start this thread? If you want to help the family, do it, end of story! Or was it because it gave you the opportunity to mention 3 or 4 times that you were going to help her with crisis funding, "will funnel it quitly through my GF". Points in the karmabank??

And yes I had a bad hairday

mike123ca · September 2, 2012

What a sweet story! There are millions of children like this little girl in Thailand, IMO it is up to the mother to support her daughter, why should Canadian taxpayers pay for offsprings of expats in Asia?

Blether mentioned that the father was living on a pension of 30k baht, to me that is a indication that he has contributed very little (if at all) to the pensionsystem, so no it is not HIS money being used for the welfare of the child, but the taxpayers.

@blether. Why start this thread? If you want to help the family, do it, end of story! Or was it because it gave you the opportunity to mention 3 or 4 times that you were going to help her with crisis funding, "will funnel it quitly through my GF". Points in the karmabank??

And yes I had a bad hairday

I've paid taxes in Canada for many years and trust me they are very high compared to the Americans. I must admit I was

bit disappointed when I couldn't collect child support because of my residency. As I said before the mother is entitled to his pension if she is legally married to him.

billd766 · September 2, 2012

I'm Canadian, married to a Thai with children.

I looked into child allowance where they give money to families

with young children. Turns out almost all entitlement programs

require residency in Canada. Being Canadian outside Canada means nothing.

Reading the story I can understand the family bring their father back home. But I don't think they would have the right

to take the child to Canada. That sounds like kidnapping. If the child is not Canadian then you will have an extra layer of problems

by trying to bring the child to the country.

If the child is Canadian and is in Canada, then she could get welfare, but if she is in Thailand and with Thai citizenship, then I suspect the

Canadian government would say it is a Thai problem.

Not disputing because I simply don't know.

All I've got to say about that is

I don't and have never depended on Canadian welfare but I just think it is rotten that the little girl should be withheld from her father's tax contributions just because she doesn't happen to be a resident of Canada.

It seems to me that a very blunt object is and has been applied to a rather delicate task in general.

Maybe the young girl can make a claim for child maintenance or inheritance from her father.

If the mother is legally married to the father, I believe she cam make a claim for his government pension.

I do know 100% under the UK law that when I die my Thai wife is entitled to a £2,000 death benefit for me and a monthly education allowance until he is 18 for my son who is also a UK citizen. When my wife reaches pensionable age she will also receive a state pension for herself based on my contributions. This will cease on her death as will the reduced benefits from my other pensions.

I have no idea unfortunately of the Canadian rules and regulations though they are probably available on the internet.

billd766 · September 2, 2012

What a sweet story! There are millions of children like this little girl in Thailand, IMO it is up to the mother to support her daughter, why should Canadian taxpayers pay for offsprings of expats in Asia?

Blether mentioned that the father was living on a pension of 30k baht, to me that is a indication that he has contributed very little (if at all) to the pensionsystem, so no it is not HIS money being used for the welfare of the child, but the taxpayers.

@blether. Why start this thread? If you want to help the family, do it, end of story! Or was it because it gave you the opportunity to mention 3 or 4 times that you were going to help her with crisis funding, "will funnel it quitly through my GF". Points in the karmabank??

And yes I had a bad hairday

You do realise of course that many countries freeze your pension if you live some other countries.

There are many pensioners living on the pension that was frozen perhaps 10,20 or more years ago even though they paid up in full to their countries benefit plans.

Why shouldn't the Canadien government pay for the offspring just because she lives in Thailand. They would if she lived in Canada so the only difference is that she is not in his country.

I very much doubt if there are "millions" of expat children in Thailand and in my personal opinion BOTH parents are equally responsible for bringing up their children which it seems that the father was here in Thailand. It doesn't look as though he is able to now as his Canadian children have moved him to Canada thus directly cutting off his income to his wife and daughter. Again IMHO they are the persons who should take on the financial responsibity.

This to me is an out of the box case where by staying inside the box the bureaucrats will have fulfilled their job and have a clean conscience and don't have to worry about the consequences.

theblether · September 2, 2012

@soi41 I'm disappointed at your contribution, it's below you. This is the family and children forum, not general.

It's quite obvious why I have asked the questions that I have......I am trying to work out what this mother and child are entitled to. I have also pointed out that I will fund the child quietly so that the Canadian family do not get the idea that there is another farang on the scene, with the potential confusions ( malicious and otherwise ) that could bring.

Okay........I am once removed from this problem, this issue has been live for months however the removal of the husband has been relatively recent and the financial implications have bitten deep in the past few weeks. It did not occur to my girlfriend or anyone else to tell me what had happened, and it certainly didn't occur to them to ask me for funding. The OP arose as I had enquired as to the status of the family as I knew that things were highly fluid and difficult, only after enquiring did the story start to pour out.

I asked my girlfriend to get a hold of the mother so that I could get copies of the documentation, I was surprised to hear that the mother did not answer the call, and yesterday after the third day ( to my knowledge ) of trying to get a hold of the mother I was told that the chances were she wasn't answering as she borrowed 6,000 baht from my gf's mother. The gf's mother had borrowed the money from another friend as she was not in a position to provide the loan.

So now we join the magic roundabout of debt, ducking and diving. My girlfriend pointed out to me that the 6,000 baht was " not important, we must know that the child is okay ". I'm very proud of her for having that attitude. My girlfriend has already stated that her family will take the child in until the mother get's back on her feet.........I'm very proud to hear this too. It's an option, maybe not the perfect solution, but an option nonetheless.

Okay......I will pay the 6,000 baht debt this week, it's the best part of a months wages for my gf's mother and I want to remove that stress from the equation. I will supply additional funding this week too........I'll probably stick in around 15,000 baht additional for my gf to hold and use at her discretion. That should get them over the immediate crisis phase.......I'm starting to believe that there will be no funding coming through from Canada so my question is how much would you allocate as a reasonable amount to support the child on a monthly basis?

TommoPhysicist · September 2, 2012

Okay........I am once removed from this problem, this issue has been live for months however the removal of the husband has been relatively recent and the financial implications have bitten deep in the past few weeks. It did not occur to my girlfriend or anyone else to tell me what had happened, and it certainly didn't occur to them to ask me for funding. The OP arose as I had enquired as to the status of the family as I knew that things were highly fluid and difficult, only after enquiring did the story start to pour out.

What she is entitled to ........ nothing.

Entitlement comes from living in a country with a welfare system, not from having a father who once lived in such a country.

Now let's consider

If you were the father of the child and maintenance were to be awarded against you, the award would be 100bht/day (approx 3k a month). Now ask yourself how much you want to donate, and should you be donating any more for the upkeep of this child than a Thai court would award. (the 6k loan you are about to pay off should easily cover two months expenses for the child)

Now next consider

If you want to donate 6k a month, wouldn't it be better to find another child and give 3k each ........... etc., etc.

PS

I know several hard working mothers with two children living happily in CM on a total family income of 6-8k a month.

PPS

Beware of intermediaries taking a commission from the money you donate. Give directly to the mother, not through any intermediary (no matter how trusted)

PPPS

My child care costs ...... teenager about 2.5k a month (biggest expenses school bus + lunch money), baby 1.5k a month (biggest expense nappies). And to be fair I could reduce those costs a bit if I were short of cash.

No really TB, great to be in a position to be generous, (and well done to you) but money spent wisely goes a lot further than good intentions managed poorly.

Edited September 2, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

geriatrickid · September 2, 2012

I'm Canadian, married to a Thai with children.

I looked into child allowance where they give money to families

with young children. Turns out almost all entitlement programs

require residency in Canada. Being Canadian outside Canada means nothing.

Reading the story I can understand the family bring their father back home. But I don't think they would have the right

to take the child to Canada. That sounds like kidnapping. If the child is not Canadian then you will have an extra layer of problems

by trying to bring the child to the country.

If the child is Canadian and is in Canada, then she could get welfare, but if she is in Thailand and with Thai citizenship, then I suspect the

Canadian government would say it is a Thai problem.

Sorry, but the litmus test is where the domicile for the purposes of paying taxes is declared. If a foreigner living in Thailand chooses to declare non residency and avoid paying Canadian provincial and federal taxes, then the person cannot then claim benefits from the system supported by the taxes he would have paid. It is no different than if he tried to claim unemployment insurance from the federal government if he lost his job in Thailand.

Child maintenance and supplementary assistance programs are the responsibility of each province, not the federal government. The appropriate provincial authorities have to be contacted. The Canadian government cannot get involved as it has no legal jurisdiction. A claimant would be referred to the respective provincial agency.

Even if the child is Canadian, she cannot leave Thailand without the mother's consent and a family court judge is going to most likely with-hold consent to the separation of a mother and child, even if the mother signs a document to that effect. Children should not be separated from their mothers unless the mother is unfit, which is not the case here. Instead, the provincial agency will recommend that if the Canadian relatives are concerned, they should contribute to the child's upkeep.

theblether · September 2, 2012

Thanks Tommo.....good input.....I'm aware that there will be a period during which the mother must downsize her home and get full time employment.....that's the time frame during which I'll provide higher funding.

After that I'll be reducing the support to more realistic Thai levels......

Mike45 · September 2, 2012

Ive researched this for myself as a US citizen. To be honest dying and leaving my family in need in Thailand has been a concern of mine since before we decided to have a baby. It's complicated very complicated. Each persons situation is slightly different and that can change things.

Reading about this situation makes me realize that I need to document for my wife what she should do and what she can expect to receive and from whom after my death or disability.

I suggest if you have a child in Thailand you should do the same.

Look up the relevant web sites, email them or call them and find out where your family stands.

Mike

BabyJebus · September 2, 2012

It was probably too hard for the family to get a canadian passport.

I mean it takes a lot of work. Like

1) Thai birth certificate translated into english, a big 2hour commitment

2) A plane ticket for the child. Again 30mins and a bit of money

3) A lawyer that signs a paper that stipulates that the kid is really himself

4) A 2week wait period to get the passport.

5) A letter from the mom that the child can travel to canada.

its 2012, if there's no APP for it it cant be done

Mario2008 · September 3, 2012

The child has a mother who takes care of it. The question is not how the child can go to Canada and be taken care of by the Canadian family. The question is how the child can get support (money) for her living expenses, school etc.

billd766 · September 3, 2012

I'm Canadian, married to a Thai with children.

I looked into child allowance where they give money to families

with young children. Turns out almost all entitlement programs

require residency in Canada. Being Canadian outside Canada means nothing.

Reading the story I can understand the family bring their father back home. But I don't think they would have the right

to take the child to Canada. That sounds like kidnapping. If the child is not Canadian then you will have an extra layer of problems

by trying to bring the child to the country.

If the child is Canadian and is in Canada, then she could get welfare, but if she is in Thailand and with Thai citizenship, then I suspect the

Canadian government would say it is a Thai problem.

Sorry, but the litmus test is where the domicile for the purposes of paying taxes is declared. If a foreigner living in Thailand chooses to declare non residency and avoid paying Canadian provincial and federal taxes, then the person cannot then claim benefits from the system supported by the taxes he would have paid. It is no different than if he tried to claim unemployment insurance from the federal government if he lost his job in Thailand.

Child maintenance and supplementary assistance programs are the responsibility of each province, not the federal government. The appropriate provincial authorities have to be contacted. The Canadian government cannot get involved as it has no legal jurisdiction. A claimant would be referred to the respective provincial agency.

Even if the child is Canadian, she cannot leave Thailand without the mother's consent and a family court judge is going to most likely with-hold consent to the separation of a mother and child, even if the mother signs a document to that effect. Children should not be separated from their mothers unless the mother is unfit, which is not the case here. Instead, the provincial agency will recommend that if the Canadian relatives are concerned, they should contribute to the child's upkeep.

GK

I am a UK citizen living in Thailand and I have no choice where I pay taxes on my pensions. It is the UK as my pensions are deemed to have derived from there.

I also get only my state pension frozen at the rate I received it in 2009 and I receive NO other allowances which I would be entitled to do IF I live in the UK.

I understand and accept that as does my wife since I took the time and patience to explain it to her.

As I wrote earlier I have no knowledge of the Canadian system but I do of the UK system for comparison purposes.

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Child Abandonment..........a Tragic Tale

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