Canadian Sisters Died In Thailand From Drinking Cocktail That Contained Insect Repellent

[masaomi]

Thanks for adding my video Webfact

DEET (N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide). Chemical Technical Summary for Public Health and Public Safety Professionals. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

http://www.atsdr.cdc...th-effects.html

Also i can understand the Thai media / Gov have tired to cover this up also Thai hotels have a habbit of spraying all rooms with this stuff and can make problems with breathing ..

I was being poisoned with the same stuff by the cook in Zen Restaurant. I was almost half dead by I arrived in hospital! Very evil individuals!

[dcutman]

Thanks for adding my video Webfact

DEET (N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide). Chemical Technical Summary for Public Health and Public Safety Professionals. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

http://www.atsdr.cdc...th-effects.html

Also i can understand the Thai media / Gov have tired to cover this up also Thai hotels have a habbit of spraying all rooms with this stuff and can make problems with breathing ..

I was being poisoned with the same stuff by the cook in Zen Restaurant. I was almost half dead by I arrived in hospital! Very evil individuals!

I highly doubt you where poisoned by DEET. It is so mildly toxic you have to drink the stuff strait and a lot of it to do much harm. The six people that tried suicide by DEET in 20 years, only 3 died, and they where trying hard. 50ml Deet and poured alcohol on top of that.

Any chance you read the link about DEET?

[Chopperboy]

Thanks for some common sense and a bit of scientific logic guys!

My money is still on a plant based poison like Abrin which causes toxicity by inhibiting the formation (synthesis) of proteins in the cells. Resulting in vomiting, vomiting blood, diarrhea, gastroenteritis, bleeding of the membrane in the rear of the eye (retinal hemorrhage), bluish skin, collapse of the blood vessels (vascular collapse), shock, and death.

[luckyman]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

OK, but how much have they had to ingest for it to be lethal and the article talks about an overdose of DEET ?...surely that would be a very large amount

My idea exactly....I am having quite some trouble digesting this outcome as well!

[sysardman]

After doing a little research on DEET it is not likely this caused these deaths.

Health Effects in Humans

DEET (N,N-Diethyl-meta-toluamide)

Chemical Technical Summary for Public Health

and Public Safety Professionals

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

Atlanta, Georgia

December 6, 2004

On this Page

• Intentional Ingestion of DEET
  
• Fatalities Due to Dermal Exposures to DEET
  
• Psychological Effects in Adults
  
• Exposures of Military Personnel-Dermal Effects
  
• Multiple-Case Studies
  
• Case Reports of Children's Exposures
  
• Reproductive / Developmental Effects
  

The U.S. EPA estimates that 30% of the U.S. population applies DEET every year. In the more than 45 years that DEET has been used in the U.S., reports of adverse effects in humans associated with the dermal application of DEET have been relatively rare, given the billions of applications of the repellent. Case reports of toxicity from DEET exposure have been documented in the medical literature, and range in severity from mild skin irritation to death.

Intentional Ingestion of DEET

Rarely, people have ingested DEET intentionally to commit suicide, or because of psychological problems (Tenenbein 1987; Fraser et al. 1995). The effects resulting from intentional ingestion are variable, due to the different scenarios in which they occurred. Of the six reported cases of deliberate DEET ingestion, three led to death. In these cases, the amount ingested was 15-50 mL of 47.5% to 95% DEET in bottles. In two cases, bottles of DEET were drunk along with unspecified amounts of alcohol. Health effects included coma, unresponsiveness to pain and other stimuli, and death (Tenenbein 1987). In another case, a woman with a history of unipolar-depressive illness ingested a number of pills along with 50 mL of 95% DEET. She arrived at the hospital comatose and pulseless. She had a generalized seizure and died from a generalized bowel infarction (Tenenbein 1987). In another case, a woman with a history of psychological disorders ingested 15-25 mL of 95% DEET. She had a right and left atrial enlargement and diffuse ST-T abnormalities, but returned to normal within 24 hours with no further cardiac abnormalities (Fraser et al. 1995).

Well I ingested a whole bottle of DEET and when I farted it cleared the room of people and mosquitos

[Soutpeel]

Well I ingested a whole bottle of DEET and when I farted it cleared the room of people and mosquitos

I guess the most important questions is....have you ever had mozzies bites on your bottom since ?

Edited September 4, 2012 by Soutpeel

[sysardman]

Well I ingested a whole bottle of DEET and when I farted it cleared the room of people and mosquitos

I guess the most important questions is....have you ever had mozzies bites on your bottom since ?

Well it's not the mozzies that are the problem now

[Briggsy]

Do you think that the Thai authorities, knowing the Canadians are about to come out with something soon that they would rather not be made public, have attempted to spike the story by releasing a bogus and contradictory report attributed to no particular official source?

[Thai at Heart]

Do you think that the Thai authorities, knowing the Canadians are about to come out with something soon that they would rather not be made public, have attempted to spike the story by releasing a bogus and contradictory report attributed to no particular official source?

Well as it stands they appear to have admitted the girls were poisoned, and intentionally or accidentally.

What could be worse? Am amazed they even admitted this much?

[sysardman]

Do you think that the Thai authorities, knowing the Canadians are about to come out with something soon that they would rather not be made public, have attempted to spike the story by releasing a bogus and contradictory report attributed to no particular official source?

Well as it stands they appear to have admitted the girls were poisoned, and intentionally or accidentally.

What could be worse? Am amazed they even admitted this much?

Well they have to admit something, I don't think cot death would sit right do you????

Edited September 4, 2012 by sysardman

[Thai at Heart]

Do you think that the Thai authorities, knowing the Canadians are about to come out with something soon that they would rather not be made public, have attempted to spike the story by releasing a bogus and contradictory report attributed to no particular official source?

Well as it stands they appear to have admitted the girls were poisoned, and intentionally or accidentally.

What could be worse? Am amazed they even admitted this much?

Well they have to admit something, I don't think cot death would sit right do you????

Normally, inconclusive and not worthy of attention is the standard answer.

[alfalfa19]

Do you think that the Thai authorities, knowing the Canadians are about to come out with something soon that they would rather not be made public, have attempted to spike the story by releasing a bogus and contradictory report attributed to no particular official source?

Yes.

[Briggsy]

Someone asked what could be worse?

1. Hotel caused the deaths through spraying.

2. Phi Phi gangs drugging female tourists for sexual assault.

3. Incompetence, criminal behaviour or abetting a murder by the Phi Phi "police".

4. Allegations of poisoning by Phi Phi bars with the complicity of the Thai authorities.

5. Complete incompetence and lack of professional standards by the Thai forensic authorities.

6. Specific and direct criticism of the way tourism is handled on Phi Phi.

I could go on but you see by leaking a story, rather than officially coming out with a statement, the Thai authorities provide a counterbalancing obfuscation to any negative publicity they know is about to come from Canada thus providing the less knowledgeable reader, and potential tourist, with two contradictory stories and they do not need to back it up with evidence because it is leaked.

[Thai at Heart]

Someone asked what could be worse?

1. Hotel caused the deaths through spraying.

2. Phi Phi gangs drugging female tourists for sexual assault.

3. Incompetence, criminal behaviour or abetting a murder by the Phi Phi "police".

4. Allegations of poisoning by Phi Phi bars with the complicity of the Thai authorities.

5. Complete incompetence and lack of professional standards by the Thai forensic authorities.

6. Specific and direct criticism of the way tourism is handled on Phi Phi.

I could go on but you see by leaking a story, rather than officially coming out with a statement, the Thai authorities provide a counterbalancing obfuscation to any negative publicity they know is about to come from Canada thus providing the less knowledgeable reader, and potential tourist, with two contradictory stories and they do not need to back it up with evidence because it is leaked.

All of the above are implied by them admitting anything.

[bendejo]

Do you think that the Thai authorities, knowing the Canadians are about to come out with something soon that they would rather not be made public, have attempted to spike the story by releasing a bogus and contradictory report attributed to no particular official source?

Well as it stands they appear to have admitted the girls were poisoned, and intentionally or accidentally.

What could be worse? Am amazed they even admitted this much?

The usual conclusion when a farang dies in Thailand: suicide.

[meatballs]

Why on earth would somebody do that to themselves?? Drink DEET?!?

[sysardman]

Why on earth would somebody do that to themselves?? Drink DEET?!?

Please read through all 359 posts - might give you a few ideas

[NomadJoe]

Thai Visa proclaimed yesterday that we should expect "flash floods" this weekend. Well, we have them - flash floods of wild unfounded speculation'

"Thai Visa" doesn't proclaim anything. They post news reports from other sources and we comment on them.

[Nisa]

Unless you know the volume by weight of DEET, I am not sure how you can say it is a lot. A pound of lead is going to be significantly less in size than a pound aluminum.

Then you have to take into effect the other drugs and alcohol in their systems too.

http://www.inchem.or...emical/deet.htm

Main risks are: CNS depression, generalized seizures,hypertonia with opisthotonic spells and hypotension. Symptomsare more severe if ingestion is associated with alcohol orsedative drugs.

If the median lethal dose in rats (2 g/kg) is applicable to humans, 50 ml of 100% DEET may is potentially lethal for an 8-year-old child.

DEET-induced CNSdepression may be potentiated by ethyl alcohol or psychotropicdrugs

You correct in some respects, but the point is, it appears you would need quite large quantites of DEET for it to become fatal, now if one assumes the source of the deet is ground up mosquito coils as has been suggested, how many coils would you have to grind up to get a lethal dose of deet, considering the fact the average mosquito coil is not even close to 100% deet content...

Even the quantity of 50ml of 100% deet to kill an 8 year old is still a significant quantity to put in a drink...

50ml is equal to 2/10th of a cup (not very much). You also need to consider the effects are going to be greatly magnified due to alcohol and other opiates and/or depressants as well as consider the girl's weight and the possibility over the counter medicine such as ibuprofen could have played a role in increasing the effects.

As for coils not being 100% DEET, they are 0% DEET. DEET comes in spray and lotions and is made to be applied to the skin. Here is a 120ml bottle of 100% DEET ..

Edited September 6, 2012 by Nisa

[mommysboy]

Unless you know the volume by weight of DEET, I am not sure how you can say it is a lot. A pound of lead is going to be significantly less in size than a pound aluminum.

Then you have to take into effect the other drugs and alcohol in their systems too.

http://www.inchem.or...emical/deet.htm

Main risks are: CNS depression, generalized seizures,hypertonia with opisthotonic spells and hypotension. Symptomsare more severe if ingestion is associated with alcohol orsedative drugs.

If the median lethal dose in rats (2 g/kg) is applicable to humans, 50 ml of 100% DEET may is potentially lethal for an 8-year-old child.

DEET-induced CNSdepression may be potentiated by ethyl alcohol or psychotropicdrugs

You correct in some respects, but the point is, it appears you would need quite large quantites of DEET for it to become fatal, now if one assumes the source of the deet is ground up mosquito coils as has been suggested, how many coils would you have to grind up to get a lethal dose of deet, considering the fact the average mosquito coil is not even close to 100% deet content...

Even the quantity of 50ml of 100% deet to kill an 8 year old is still a significant quantity to put in a drink...

50ml is equal to 2/10th of a cup (not very much). You also need to consider the effects are going to be greatly magnified due to alcohol and other opiates and/or depressants as well as consider the girl's weight and the possibility over the counter medicine such as ibuprofen could have played a role in increasing the effects.

As for coils not being 100% DEET, they are 0% DEET. DEET comes in spray and lotions and is made to be applied to the skin. Here is a 120ml bottle of 100% DEET ..

What are we to infer from your posting?

[Nisa]

Unless you know the volume by weight of DEET, I am not sure how you can say it is a lot. A pound of lead is going to be significantly less in size than a pound aluminum.

Then you have to take into effect the other drugs and alcohol in their systems too.

http://www.inchem.or...emical/deet.htm

Main risks are: CNS depression, generalized seizures,hypertonia with opisthotonic spells and hypotension. Symptomsare more severe if ingestion is associated with alcohol orsedative drugs.

If the median lethal dose in rats (2 g/kg) is applicable to humans, 50 ml of 100% DEET may is potentially lethal for an 8-year-old child.

DEET-induced CNSdepression may be potentiated by ethyl alcohol or psychotropicdrugs

You correct in some respects, but the point is, it appears you would need quite large quantites of DEET for it to become fatal, now if one assumes the source of the deet is ground up mosquito coils as has been suggested, how many coils would you have to grind up to get a lethal dose of deet, considering the fact the average mosquito coil is not even close to 100% deet content...

Even the quantity of 50ml of 100% deet to kill an 8 year old is still a significant quantity to put in a drink...

50ml is equal to 2/10th of a cup (not very much). You also need to consider the effects are going to be greatly magnified due to alcohol and other opiates and/or depressants as well as consider the girl's weight and the possibility over the counter medicine such as ibuprofen could have played a role in increasing the effects.

As for coils not being 100% DEET, they are 0% DEET. DEET comes in spray and lotions and is made to be applied to the skin. Here is a 120ml bottle of 100% DEET ..

What are we to infer from your posting?

I have no control over that ... was just pointing out some facts and sharing information.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Someone asked what could be worse?

1. Hotel caused the deaths through spraying.

2. Phi Phi gangs drugging female tourists for sexual assault.

3. Incompetence, criminal behaviour or abetting a murder by the Phi Phi "police".

4. Allegations of poisoning by Phi Phi bars with the complicity of the Thai authorities.

5. Complete incompetence and lack of professional standards by the Thai forensic authorities.

6. Specific and direct criticism of the way tourism is handled on Phi Phi.

I could go on but you see by leaking a story, rather than officially coming out with a statement, the Thai authorities provide a counterbalancing obfuscation to any negative publicity they know is about to come from Canada thus providing the less knowledgeable reader, and potential tourist, with two contradictory stories and they do not need to back it up with evidence because it is leaked.

Or their could be no conspiracy at all and the girls died (like so many people do daily across the world) from taking illicit drugs and the details are not being released out of both respect and privacy issues.

Col Boontavee declined to reveal any further details of the case, saying that the

Canadian embassy in Bangkok had requested that police be “discrete” in their work and to report their findings directly to embassy officials.

Barbara Harvey, Spokesperson for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, in Ottawa, told the Phuket Gazette, “Canadian consular officials in Bangkok and in Canada have provided consular assistance to the family, and our officials are in contact with authorities both in Thailand and Canada and will continue to liaise closely with them.

“Out of respect for the family and to protect the privacy of the individuals concerned, further details on this case cannot be released.”

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2012/DEET-in-lethal-party-cocktail-killed-Canadian-sisters-Autopsy-16811.html

Edited September 7, 2012 by Nisa

[ttelise]

Someone asked what could be worse?

1. Hotel caused the deaths through spraying.

2. Phi Phi gangs drugging female tourists for sexual assault.

3. Incompetence, criminal behaviour or abetting a murder by the Phi Phi "police".

4. Allegations of poisoning by Phi Phi bars with the complicity of the Thai authorities.

5. Complete incompetence and lack of professional standards by the Thai forensic authorities.

6. Specific and direct criticism of the way tourism is handled on Phi Phi.

I could go on but you see by leaking a story, rather than officially coming out with a statement, the Thai authorities provide a counterbalancing obfuscation to any negative publicity they know is about to come from Canada thus providing the less knowledgeable reader, and potential tourist, with two contradictory stories and they do not need to back it up with evidence because it is leaked.

Or their could be no conspiracy at all and the girls died (like so many people do daily across the world) from taking illicit drugs and the details are not being released out of both respect and privacy issues.

Col Boontavee declined to reveal any further details of the case, saying that the

Canadian embassy in Bangkok had requested that police be “discrete” in their work and to report their findings directly to embassy officials.

Barbara Harvey, Spokesperson for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, in Ottawa, told the Phuket Gazette, “Canadian consular officials in Bangkok and in Canada have provided consular assistance to the family, and our officials are in contact with authorities both in Thailand and Canada and will continue to liaise closely with them.

“Out of respect for the family and to protect the privacy of the individuals concerned, further details on this case cannot be released.”

http://www.phuketgaz...opsy-16811.html

This is the type of attitutde that allows murder to go unpunished in Thailand. Deaths classified as natural, accidentla, unknown, suicide and etc. Like the Korean girls that bound their own wrist, bashed their own heads on rocks and then drowned themselves.

Toxicology is a very complex subject. If tissues are not properly taken and properly preserved at the very early outset, some toxins and chmeicals may not appear.

I have little doubt they consumed something poisonous. We will apparently never know whether its DEET or something that had a very short half life or is nearly impossible to detect if certain stringent protocals are not followed.

If Deet, this is still manslaughter. Any DA in the US would prosecute as such. Know this for a fact as I ran hypo by a DA I had lunch with.

Mansluaghter is applicable under each of the below scenarios:

(1) I doubt the these girls would have knowingly ingested DEET if they were told that is what they were consuming. Unknowingly ingesting is easy to resolve - mansalughter or second degree murder.

(2) Deet was added to get them wasted so they could be taken advantage of . . . Second Degree Murder or first degree/felony murder would be charge and likely conviction.

(3) The girls were told DEET was in there, but it was safe. The person serving would still get manslaughter for serving a dangerous substance that caused death even if they had absolutely no intention of causing death.

(4) The girls were told DEET was in there and it might not be safe. STILL unequivocally, without question, mansalughter for person serving or spiking the drink with a dnageorus or poisonous substance. Does not matter if the girls knew what was in there.

(5) The girls put the DEET in the drinks themselves. This is a close call if someone else purchased it for the express purpose of putting it in their drinks. Same reasoning as assisted suicide and a form accessory liability. Very difficult to get conviction on this, but may still get charged in US depending upon the circumstances.

The only way no criminal culpability would attach is if the girls bought the DEET themselves and put it in the drink themselves.

Caveat, if owner of store selling DEET knew or should have known that kids were purchasing it and drinking it and it could cause death, the owner could be charged with mansalughter. Same would be applied to vendors selling buckets with DEET (or anything else not safe for human consumption) for people to mix themselves. They should be charged with criminally negligent homocide or worse depending upon the facts.

[Nisa]

Someone asked what could be worse?

1. Hotel caused the deaths through spraying.

2. Phi Phi gangs drugging female tourists for sexual assault.

3. Incompetence, criminal behaviour or abetting a murder by the Phi Phi "police".

4. Allegations of poisoning by Phi Phi bars with the complicity of the Thai authorities.

5. Complete incompetence and lack of professional standards by the Thai forensic authorities.

6. Specific and direct criticism of the way tourism is handled on Phi Phi.

I could go on but you see by leaking a story, rather than officially coming out with a statement, the Thai authorities provide a counterbalancing obfuscation to any negative publicity they know is about to come from Canada thus providing the less knowledgeable reader, and potential tourist, with two contradictory stories and they do not need to back it up with evidence because it is leaked.

Or their could be no conspiracy at all and the girls died (like so many people do daily across the world) from taking illicit drugs and the details are not being released out of both respect and privacy issues.

Col Boontavee declined to reveal any further details of the case, saying that the

Canadian embassy in Bangkok had requested that police be “discrete” in their work and to report their findings directly to embassy officials.

Barbara Harvey, Spokesperson for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, in Ottawa, told the Phuket Gazette, “Canadian consular officials in Bangkok and in Canada have provided consular assistance to the family, and our officials are in contact with authorities both in Thailand and Canada and will continue to liaise closely with them.

“Out of respect for the family and to protect the privacy of the individuals concerned, further details on this case cannot be released.”

http://www.phuketgaz...opsy-16811.html

This is the type of attitutde that allows murder to go unpunished in Thailand. Deaths classified as natural, accidentla, unknown, suicide and etc. Like the Korean girls that bound their own wrist, bashed their own heads on rocks and then drowned themselves.

Toxicology is a very complex subject. If tissues are not properly taken and properly preserved at the very early outset, some toxins and chmeicals may not appear.

I have little doubt they consumed something poisonous. We will apparently never know whether its DEET or something that had a very short half life or is nearly impossible to detect if certain stringent protocals are not followed.

If Deet, this is still manslaughter. Any DA in the US would prosecute as such. Know this for a fact as I ran hypo by a DA I had lunch with.

Mansluaghter is applicable under each of the below scenarios:

(1) I doubt the these girls would have knowingly ingested DEET if they were told that is what they were consuming. Unknowingly ingesting is easy to resolve - mansalughter or second degree murder.

(2) Deet was added to get them wasted so they could be taken advantage of . . . Second Degree Murder or first degree/felony murder would be charge and likely conviction.

(3) The girls were told DEET was in there, but it was safe. The person serving would still get manslaughter for serving a dangerous substance that caused death even if they had absolutely no intention of causing death.

(4) The girls were told DEET was in there and it might not be safe. STILL unequivocally, without question, mansalughter for person serving or spiking the drink with a dnageorus or poisonous substance. Does not matter if the girls knew what was in there.

(5) The girls put the DEET in the drinks themselves. This is a close call if someone else purchased it for the express purpose of putting it in their drinks. Same reasoning as assisted suicide and a form accessory liability. Very difficult to get conviction on this, but may still get charged in US depending upon the circumstances.

The only way no criminal culpability would attach is if the girls bought the DEET themselves and put it in the drink themselves.

Caveat, if owner of store selling DEET knew or should have known that kids were purchasing it and drinking it and it could cause death, the owner could be charged with mansalughter. Same would be applied to vendors selling buckets with DEET (or anything else not safe for human consumption) for people to mix themselves. They should be charged with criminally negligent homocide or worse depending upon the facts.

Do you have any idea the things used to make and process illegal drugs from acetone and/or kerosene in cocaine to drain cleaner in speed. People OD on drugs all the time and people who take drugs don't ask for a run down of what is in them. These girls as had been reported earlier were adventurous types and described as a bit wild at times (forget the exact word used in their local paper) and were out partying. There is little doubt they took this drug concoction themselves knowing it was a drug and illegal and likely why they didn't seek help for their initial symptoms. People die all the time taking drugs in the west such as heroin because it was a bad batch or too strong and police rarely ever go after a dealer for murder or manslaughter or anything else beyond being a dealer. Do you really expect Dealers to have customers sign waivers or print the full ingredients of their drug on the package as well as proper dosing instructions to avoid murder charges.

The girls didn't deserve to die by any means but by all indications, given the most recent reports, is they died of their own doing and nobody forced them to experiment with this drug concoction. There is also a good chance others they were with took the same concoction but given the girls size, the amount the took, their genetic makeup or other drugs (legal or otherwise) likely played a part in why they died. Bottom line is some people take drugs such as cocaine for decades with no issues while other healthy individuals snort one line and die.

Unless fact come out to point in a different direction, there is nothing to support and no known motive to show they were purposely murdered or didn't voluntarily ingest drugs that appear at this point to have led to their deaths.

Edit:

In England & Wales there were 2,652 drug poisoning deaths registered in 2011. Approx. 600 were from heroine/morphine. Yet, there were only 564 homicides (includes manslaughter) reported in 2011 (220 by knife). So, I guess your theory and DA friend's opinion don't hold much water in terms of wanting to hold a less developed country to standards higher than a first world country.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Nisa

[ttelise]

Someone asked what could be worse?

1. Hotel caused the deaths through spraying.

2. Phi Phi gangs drugging female tourists for sexual assault.

3. Incompetence, criminal behaviour or abetting a murder by the Phi Phi "police".

4. Allegations of poisoning by Phi Phi bars with the complicity of the Thai authorities.

5. Complete incompetence and lack of professional standards by the Thai forensic authorities.

6. Specific and direct criticism of the way tourism is handled on Phi Phi.

I could go on but you see by leaking a story, rather than officially coming out with a statement, the Thai authorities provide a counterbalancing obfuscation to any negative publicity they know is about to come from Canada thus providing the less knowledgeable reader, and potential tourist, with two contradictory stories and they do not need to back it up with evidence because it is leaked.

Or their could be no conspiracy at all and the girls died (like so many people do daily across the world) from taking illicit drugs and the details are not being released out of both respect and privacy issues.

Col Boontavee declined to reveal any further details of the case, saying that the

Canadian embassy in Bangkok had requested that police be “discrete” in their work and to report their findings directly to embassy officials.

Barbara Harvey, Spokesperson for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, in Ottawa, told the Phuket Gazette, “Canadian consular officials in Bangkok and in Canada have provided consular assistance to the family, and our officials are in contact with authorities both in Thailand and Canada and will continue to liaise closely with them.

“Out of respect for the family and to protect the privacy of the individuals concerned, further details on this case cannot be released.”

http://www.phuketgaz...opsy-16811.html

This is the type of attitutde that allows murder to go unpunished in Thailand. Deaths classified as natural, accidentla, unknown, suicide and etc. Like the Korean girls that bound their own wrist, bashed their own heads on rocks and then drowned themselves.

Toxicology is a very complex subject. If tissues are not properly taken and properly preserved at the very early outset, some toxins and chmeicals may not appear.

I have little doubt they consumed something poisonous. We will apparently never know whether its DEET or something that had a very short half life or is nearly impossible to detect if certain stringent protocals are not followed.

If Deet, this is still manslaughter. Any DA in the US would prosecute as such. Know this for a fact as I ran hypo by a DA I had lunch with.

Mansluaghter is applicable under each of the below scenarios:

(1) I doubt the these girls would have knowingly ingested DEET if they were told that is what they were consuming. Unknowingly ingesting is easy to resolve - mansalughter or second degree murder.

(2) Deet was added to get them wasted so they could be taken advantage of . . . Second Degree Murder or first degree/felony murder would be charge and likely conviction.

(3) The girls were told DEET was in there, but it was safe. The person serving would still get manslaughter for serving a dangerous substance that caused death even if they had absolutely no intention of causing death.

(4) The girls were told DEET was in there and it might not be safe. STILL unequivocally, without question, mansalughter for person serving or spiking the drink with a dnageorus or poisonous substance. Does not matter if the girls knew what was in there.

(5) The girls put the DEET in the drinks themselves. This is a close call if someone else purchased it for the express purpose of putting it in their drinks. Same reasoning as assisted suicide and a form accessory liability. Very difficult to get conviction on this, but may still get charged in US depending upon the circumstances.

The only way no criminal culpability would attach is if the girls bought the DEET themselves and put it in the drink themselves.

Caveat, if owner of store selling DEET knew or should have known that kids were purchasing it and drinking it and it could cause death, the owner could be charged with mansalughter. Same would be applied to vendors selling buckets with DEET (or anything else not safe for human consumption) for people to mix themselves. They should be charged with criminally negligent homocide or worse depending upon the facts.

Do you have any idea the things used to make and process illegal drugs from acetone and/or kerosene in cocaine to drain cleaner in speed. People OD on drugs all the time and people who take drugs don't ask for a run down of what is in them. These girls as had been reported earlier were adventurous types and described as a bit wild at times (forget the exact word used in their local paper) and were out partying. There is little doubt they took this drug concoction themselves knowing it was a drug and illegal and likely why they didn't seek help for their initial symptoms. People die all the time taking drugs in the west such as heroin because it was a bad batch or too strong and police rarely ever go after a dealer for murder or manslaughter or anything else beyond being a dealer. Do you really expect Dealers to have customers sign waivers or print the full ingredients of their drug on the package as well as proper dosing instructions to avoid murder charges.

The girls didn't deserve to die by any means but by all indications, given the most recent reports, is they died of their own doing and nobody forced them to experiment with this drug concoction. There is also a good chance others they were with took the same concoction but given the girls size, the amount the took, their genetic makeup or other drugs (legal or otherwise) likely played a part in why they died. Bottom line is some people take drugs such as cocaine for decades with no issues while other healthy individuals snort one line and die.

Unless fact come out to point in a different direction, there is nothing to support and no known motive to show they were purposely murdered or didn't voluntarily ingest drugs that appear at this point to have led to their deaths.

Edit:

In England & Wales there were 2,652 drug poisoning deaths registered in 2011. Approx. 600 were from heroine/morphine. Yet, there were only 564 homicides (includes manslaughter) reported in 2011 (220 by knife). So, I guess your theory and DA friend's opinion don't hold much water in terms of wanting to hold a less developed country to standards higher than a first world country.

Haha, drug poisoning death means over dose . . .

Cannot help if your IQ is too low to comprehend difference between someone shooting too much heroine in their arm and someone serving a drink laced with insecticide causing death. The latter will get you indicted every single time in the US.

[Nisa]

Or their could be no conspiracy at all and the girls died (like so many people do daily across the world) from taking illicit drugs and the details are not being released out of both respect and privacy issues.

Col Boontavee declined to reveal any further details of the case, saying that the

Canadian embassy in Bangkok had requested that police be “discrete” in their work and to report their findings directly to embassy officials.

Barbara Harvey, Spokesperson for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, in Ottawa, told the Phuket Gazette, “Canadian consular officials in Bangkok and in Canada have provided consular assistance to the family, and our officials are in contact with authorities both in Thailand and Canada and will continue to liaise closely with them.

“Out of respect for the family and to protect the privacy of the individuals concerned, further details on this case cannot be released.”

http://www.phuketgaz...opsy-16811.html

This is the type of attitutde that allows murder to go unpunished in Thailand. Deaths classified as natural, accidentla, unknown, suicide and etc. Like the Korean girls that bound their own wrist, bashed their own heads on rocks and then drowned themselves.

Toxicology is a very complex subject. If tissues are not properly taken and properly preserved at the very early outset, some toxins and chmeicals may not appear.

I have little doubt they consumed something poisonous. We will apparently never know whether its DEET or something that had a very short half life or is nearly impossible to detect if certain stringent protocals are not followed.

If Deet, this is still manslaughter. Any DA in the US would prosecute as such. Know this for a fact as I ran hypo by a DA I had lunch with.

Mansluaghter is applicable under each of the below scenarios:

(1) I doubt the these girls would have knowingly ingested DEET if they were told that is what they were consuming. Unknowingly ingesting is easy to resolve - mansalughter or second degree murder.

(2) Deet was added to get them wasted so they could be taken advantage of . . . Second Degree Murder or first degree/felony murder would be charge and likely conviction.

(3) The girls were told DEET was in there, but it was safe. The person serving would still get manslaughter for serving a dangerous substance that caused death even if they had absolutely no intention of causing death.

(4) The girls were told DEET was in there and it might not be safe. STILL unequivocally, without question, mansalughter for person serving or spiking the drink with a dnageorus or poisonous substance. Does not matter if the girls knew what was in there.

(5) The girls put the DEET in the drinks themselves. This is a close call if someone else purchased it for the express purpose of putting it in their drinks. Same reasoning as assisted suicide and a form accessory liability. Very difficult to get conviction on this, but may still get charged in US depending upon the circumstances.

The only way no criminal culpability would attach is if the girls bought the DEET themselves and put it in the drink themselves.

Caveat, if owner of store selling DEET knew or should have known that kids were purchasing it and drinking it and it could cause death, the owner could be charged with mansalughter. Same would be applied to vendors selling buckets with DEET (or anything else not safe for human consumption) for people to mix themselves. They should be charged with criminally negligent homocide or worse depending upon the facts.

Do you have any idea the things used to make and process illegal drugs from acetone and/or kerosene in cocaine to drain cleaner in speed. People OD on drugs all the time and people who take drugs don't ask for a run down of what is in them. These girls as had been reported earlier were adventurous types and described as a bit wild at times (forget the exact word used in their local paper) and were out partying. There is little doubt they took this drug concoction themselves knowing it was a drug and illegal and likely why they didn't seek help for their initial symptoms. People die all the time taking drugs in the west such as heroin because it was a bad batch or too strong and police rarely ever go after a dealer for murder or manslaughter or anything else beyond being a dealer. Do you really expect Dealers to have customers sign waivers or print the full ingredients of their drug on the package as well as proper dosing instructions to avoid murder charges.

The girls didn't deserve to die by any means but by all indications, given the most recent reports, is they died of their own doing and nobody forced them to experiment with this drug concoction. There is also a good chance others they were with took the same concoction but given the girls size, the amount the took, their genetic makeup or other drugs (legal or otherwise) likely played a part in why they died. Bottom line is some people take drugs such as cocaine for decades with no issues while other healthy individuals snort one line and die.

Unless fact come out to point in a different direction, there is nothing to support and no known motive to show they were purposely murdered or didn't voluntarily ingest drugs that appear at this point to have led to their deaths.

Edit:

In England & Wales there were 2,652 drug poisoning deaths registered in 2011. Approx. 600 were from heroine/morphine. Yet, there were only 564 homicides (includes manslaughter) reported in 2011 (220 by knife). So, I guess your theory and DA friend's opinion don't hold much water in terms of wanting to hold a less developed country to standards higher than a first world country.

Haha, drug poisoning death means over dose . . .

Cannot help if your IQ is too low to comprehend difference between someone shooting too much heroine in their arm and someone serving a drink laced with insecticide causing death. The latter will get you indicted every single time in the US.

While you may be from and live in the US, the girls were neither and they didn't die in the US but the bottom line is poisons are part of many drugs and it is common knowledge they are not FDA approved and contain dangerous unlisted ingredients. Too much can kill you be it nicotine, alcohol in drinks, drain cleaner in Meth or DEET in 8x100 (4x100 w/DEET & Yaba). People OD on deadly poisons (drugs) everyday and the overwhelming vast majority don't prompt any further criminal investigation let alone ones related to homicide ... the death are ruled either accidental or suicide with the exception sometimes being if a person injects (administers) another person causing their death.

Again you and your DA friend seem to be off the mark a bit for a number of reasons as it has not only NOT been stated the girls died from DEET but it is common knowledge in the criminal and police world that deadly chemicals are in many street drugs and these range from thinks like brake fluid, battery acid, freon to Acetone,

While criminal charges may be possible and may be pursued because of the high profileness of this case there has yet to be anything shown to prove a crime was committed ... let alone some form of homicide charges.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

From April 2007 --- http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/detail.asp?id=7225

PHUKET: A new recreational drug cocktail known as “8 x 100”, a direct descendant of the “4 x 100” that came to prominence in 2006, is now sweeping the Deep South, security officials say.

The original “4 x 100” used the indigenous

krathom

leaves (a prohibited stimulant) as one of the major ingredients.

Since security forces have cracked down on the trade in

krathom

, youths have moved on to a complex new formula comprising longkong leaves, cola,

ya bah

(

methamphetamines

), cough medicine, mosquito repellent, florescent chemicals from tube lights, tobacco and yoghurt, Lt Thanu explained.

[canuckamuck]

From April 2007 --- http://www.phuketgaz...ail.asp?id=7225

PHUKET: A new recreational drug cocktail known as “8 x 100”, a direct descendant of the “4 x 100” that came to prominence in 2006, is now sweeping the Deep South, security officials say.

The original “4 x 100” used the indigenous

krathom

leaves (a prohibited stimulant) as one of the major ingredients.

Since security forces have cracked down on the trade in

krathom

, youths have moved on to a complex new formula comprising longkong leaves, cola,

ya bah

(

methamphetamines

), cough medicine, mosquito repellent, florescent chemicals from tube lights, tobacco and yoghurt, Lt Thanu explained.

Based on the above recipe it is confirmed that there is no limit to stupid.

[Nisa]

From April 2007 --- http://www.phuketgaz...ail.asp?id=7225

PHUKET: A new recreational drug cocktail known as “8 x 100”, a direct descendant of the “4 x 100” that came to prominence in 2006, is now sweeping the Deep South, security officials say.

The original “4 x 100” used the indigenous

krathom

leaves (a prohibited stimulant) as one of the major ingredients.

Since security forces have cracked down on the trade in

krathom

, youths have moved on to a complex new formula comprising longkong leaves, cola,

ya bah

(

methamphetamines

), cough medicine, mosquito repellent, florescent chemicals from tube lights, tobacco and yoghurt, Lt Thanu explained.

Based on the above recipe it is confirmed that there is no limit to stupid.

With so many people determined to get a buzz, things like should help advocate controlled legalization because the harder and more expensive cleaner drugs get the more people turn to these cheap homemade drugs or glue, paint, aerosols, bath salts and a host of other more dangerous crap. People wanting to escape reality or alter their senses has been around for a heck of a long time and just about as long as people have been trying to eliminate their doing so.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

If Deet, this is still manslaughter. Any DA in the US would prosecute as such. Know this for a fact as I ran hypo by a DA I had lunch with.

Mansluaghter is applicable under each of the below scenarios:

(1) I doubt the these girls would have knowingly ingested DEET if they were told that is what they were consuming. Unknowingly ingesting is easy to resolve - mansalughter or second degree murder.

(2) Deet was added to get them wasted so they could be taken advantage of . . . Second Degree Murder or first degree/felony murder would be charge and likely conviction.

(3) The girls were told DEET was in there, but it was safe. The person serving would still get manslaughter for serving a dangerous substance that caused death even if they had absolutely no intention of causing death.

(4) The girls were told DEET was in there and it might not be safe. STILL unequivocally, without question, mansalughter for person serving or spiking the drink with a dnageorus or poisonous substance. Does not matter if the girls knew what was in there.

(5) The girls put the DEET in the drinks themselves. This is a close call if someone else purchased it for the express purpose of putting it in their drinks. Same reasoning as assisted suicide and a form accessory liability. Very difficult to get conviction on this, but may still get charged in US depending upon the circumstances.

The only way no criminal culpability would attach is if the girls bought the DEET themselves and put it in the drink themselves.

Caveat, if owner of store selling DEET knew or should have known that kids were purchasing it and drinking it and it could cause death, the owner could be charged with mansalughter. Same would be applied to vendors selling buckets with DEET (or anything else not safe for human consumption) for people to mix themselves. They should be charged with criminally negligent homocide or worse depending upon the facts.

Only one little problem with your hypo Perry Mason...the last time I checked, the case concerned happened in Thailand not the US, so what a US DA thinks is somewhat irrelevant as dont believe person concerned is licensed to pratice law in Thailand...

Haha, totally agree. Didn't mean to give impression way it is done in Thailand, although it perhaps should be.

Getting real strict in US. Doctors are getting First Degree murder charges for patients ODing and drug dealers are getting prosecuted for drugs being uncut and causing death due to OD.

http://m.yahoo.com/w...=US&.lang=en-US

http://www.connectmi...30#.UEqp-v15mc0

19 kid got popped for manslaughter for giving methadone to another friend.

http://thecyn.com/bl...-murder-charge/

I am not sure I agree with murder here, but that certainly the trend now.

http://www2.tbo.com/...-use-ar-450683/

My only point was and still is, putting Deet in someones drink would get charged as I mentioned above in US.

Google all the cases where kids putting vusine in someone's drink are getting charged.

Your first link starts out .... LOS ANGELES, Calif. - The prosecutor who took the rare step of charging a doctor with murder in the prescription drug overdose deaths of three patients...

Your second link ... is about a heroin dealer being "charged" for the death of someone he gave (administered?) heroin but clearly indicates it was step to scare other dealers.

Your third link states ... Rather than ruling the death an ‘accidental overdose’ or ‘suicide’ as it may have been called in past years, deaths like these are being associated with the provider of the drugs and called ‘homicide.’

Your fourth link ... again is somebody charged with murder for selling prescription who also happened to be a a convicted drug dealer being monitored by GPS.

Point is with all the drug deaths in the US and the population ... you have found a few instances were most all say the step is not at all common in terms of charging murder.

Give it up .. anything can happen and people can be charged with a homicide for leaving their keys in their car too but your claims of homicide charges being anything but very uncommon in taking illegal drug leading to death. Bottom line is even in the police state of the US who has more of its population behind bars than any other nation, it still is not common.

And again, who really cares what would happen in the US unless somebody is trying to put some superior spin on these deaths and not able to grasp this is not a first world nation.