Thailand Grapples With Killer Student Gangs

[AnkertilBrewer]

I was interested in the fact that they take pride in their respective schools. This leads me to think the schools may also be able to play more of a role (if they aren't already doing so). First, students who use violence should be expelled. Of course this should be evaluated on a case by case basis, with appropriate warnings where needed. But being ostracized from the school might undermine their need for group/pack bonding.

If this is about pride in one's school, and students have a surplus of physical energy, can't this be channeled into sport competitions and, for the brainier and less physically volatile, other sorts of competitions (I can't think of anything other than spelling Bs and speech competitions at the moment)? Oh, perhaps some multi-school activities such as art exhibitions? For the violent ones, how about kick-boxing matches? Just have an onsite kick-boxing coach (who's tough enough), and the kid's that think they are bad-asses get recruited onto the kickboxing team. Then there are competitions between schools. OK, maybe that's not a good idea, because it could too easily get turned into physical punishment. But a completely voluntary kick-boxing team with competitions between schools might be a good idea (anyone has a fight outside of the ring is penalized from fighting in the ring for a period of time).

I'm guessing the school is probably just a convenient way of the kids to self-segment themselves into various competing gangs. So, there needs to be a more meaningful way for them to gain respect among their peers.

The boot camp seems like a pretty good idea to teach students some no bullshit discipline, and force cooperation on them. At least the Thai govt. is taking some initiating in addressing the problem. I think they may do more to teach the students skills that will give them something of a future. If given a choice of doing something constructive that will get the respect of one's peers or whoever else AND help fortify one's future, I think kids will take that route rather than just do something nasty to look cool for a few minutes before accepting one's dim future as a subservient laborer.

I also agree with the people that said that 200 baht is NOT a penalty. Hell, those kids would probably pay 200 baht up front for the chance to stab another student in the head. The penalty should be some form of meaningful community service. I'm thinking something connected to a skill. Could be something like painting homes or landscaping. Just punishment won't work because it doesn't give kids something they can use to have a successful life.

[catweazle]

The problem can just be rooted out if you start at the root which are THE PARENTS. Biggest problem here in Thailand is that most Thai parents give a toss about their children and on top of that the midle class wannabe Hi-So parents are too busy shopping and blind dating. How can the kids have self respect and self esteem if the parents can't express to them that they are loved and being cared for?

Also tradition and traditional beliefs play a big negative role here: There are Thai parents out there who never have hugged their children since they were toddlers, letting alone giving them a kiss or receiving one. It all comes together and leaves empty-shelled teenagers behind who have no respect for themselves and others and who can't feel true affection or sympathy for others. Believe me - the root of the problems are parents and how most Thai kids are brought up here! Many also are raised by uncles, aunts and grandparents who mostly are too old, too ignorant or too deep into gambling and booze to give a tart about their grandchildrens' or nephews' future... It's sad but true. Have seen enough in my 21+ years here.

Really makes me sad when I have to read that a teenager boasts about having someone stabbed in the head, getting away with murder and that this makes him proud. What a shitty world we live in...

Edited September 4, 2012 by catweazle

[Frederickxx]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

They may be the same species but I suspect not the same species as us farangs

[teatree]

I was interested in the fact that they take pride in their respective schools. This leads me to think the schools may also be able to play more of a role (if they aren't already doing so). First, students who use violence should be expelled. Of course this should be evaluated on a case by case basis, with appropriate warnings where needed. But being ostracized from the school might undermine their need for group/pack bonding.

If this is about pride in one's school, and students have a surplus of physical energy, can't this be channeled into sport competitions and, for the brainier and less physically volatile, other sorts of competitions (I can't think of anything other than spelling Bs and speech competitions at the moment)? Oh, perhaps some multi-school activities such as art exhibitions? For the violent ones, how about kick-boxing matches? Just have an onsite kick-boxing coach (who's tough enough), and the kid's that think they are bad-asses get recruited onto the kickboxing team. Then there are competitions between schools. OK, maybe that's not a good idea, because it could too easily get turned into physical punishment. But a completely voluntary kick-boxing team with competitions between schools might be a good idea (anyone has a fight outside of the ring is penalized from fighting in the ring for a period of time).

I'm guessing the school is probably just a convenient way of the kids to self-segment themselves into various competing gangs. So, there needs to be a more meaningful way for them to gain respect among their peers.

The boot camp seems like a pretty good idea to teach students some no bullshit discipline, and force cooperation on them. At least the Thai govt. is taking some initiating in addressing the problem. I think they may do more to teach the students skills that will give them something of a future. If given a choice of doing something constructive that will get the respect of one's peers or whoever else AND help fortify one's future, I think kids will take that route rather than just do something nasty to look cool for a few minutes before accepting one's dim future as a subservient laborer.

I also agree with the people that said that 200 baht is NOT a penalty. Hell, those kids would probably pay 200 baht up front for the chance to stab another student in the head. The penalty should be some form of meaningful community service. I'm thinking something connected to a skill. Could be something like painting homes or landscaping. Just punishment won't work because it doesn't give kids something they can use to have a successful life.

I agree. The energy and pride should be diverted towards sport where students can still get their fix of tribalism without the use of weapons.

Set up sporting competitions between schools, let that be the source of pride and I think a lot of the violence would go away.

[Baerboxer]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

Why? Don't you think teenagers fight in other countries?. It might be school, football team, district, relgion or some other gang loyalty. But, there are many far worse than Thailand.

[Baerboxer]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Baerboxer

[inkorat]

A big problem is the lack of parental control and guidance when they are at a young age and they are completely out of control when the get older.

They see that corruption and threats are the common means of Thai's gaining power, wealth and perceived respect and with role models like these in life and on on the TV, what can we expect.

I think all of us that have families know, raising a child with the right values is not an easy job here in Thailand.

I am definately not condoning the actions and/or crimes of these gang members and maybe a longer term gov./military supervised work/training program (1 or 2 years) could help instill more discipline and respect in them and also get them out of the influences of the gangs.

The government now has billions of baht for their flooding prevention projects and it looks like we now have the workforce. The problem is it there is no way to get anyone to go for this, unless it is privatized with 30% under the table, so it's not really feasible.

[ThomasBird67]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

Why? Don't you think teenagers fight in other countries?. It might be school, football team, district, relgion or some other gang loyalty. But, there are many far worse than Thailand.

Nobody said they don't fight in other countries, but STUDENTS are certainly not as proned to kill each other as they are here and I have never been to a Reggae festival even in America that ended in a shower of beer bottles by rival gangs. Sorry but I'm not buying the "oh that do that everywhere!!" cop-out.

[ThomasBird67]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

You claim its worse elsewhere, do YOU have any evidence to support your claims? Thailand is one of the most dangerous countries in the world as far as risk of murder is concerned, so I'm curious to hear about all these other countries so much worse where you have gangs of thugs from actual colleges going around murdering each other for school pride.

[ThomasBird67]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

They may be the same species but I suspect not the same species as us farangs

Clearly. Just look at the t.v. programs they watch. Evolution obviously didn't happen as quickly here. ha ha

[PaulHamon]

One of my wife juniors from me uni was stabbed and killed. It was mistaken identity by some college gang. Only days his funeral did his diploma arriving in the mail at the family home.

This was 6 months ago and no one was ever charged. Very sad for family and friends.

[fareastguy]

Quote:

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

If their guilty of committing a crime of serious bodily harm then they must pay the penalty & do serious time in prison.

If guilty of violence in a public area then why only 10 weeks in boot camp.. 2 years service would serve them better to get them on the straight & narrow path. Along with a stern warning to the appropriate college to do it's part in educating it's students in the correct way to conduct themselves in public.. or close them down!!!!

[kimamey]

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

Thats not feel good lefty enough for the Europeans on board.

Please accept my apologies. I'm a European but I don't appear to be sticking to your rules. I'll correct that right away for you.

I just wonder where you are from.

[pacovl46]

Those 'students' are scared little cowards.

Prison time rather than boot camps would be the best and most effective way to deal with them.

You couldn't be more wrong about that! It's well known that jailbirds make new acquaintances and connections in prison. Also, prisons don't rehabilitate, they just punish. For a young gang member having been in prison is like a badge of honor. Boot camps are they way to go. Put enemies together and make them realize that they're people just like anyone else. Even though it might not work for everyone, it will definitely get some of them to think as the article stated. By the way, boot camps are no joke. They drill you hard there.

Edited September 4, 2012 by pacovl46

[Misterwhisper]

"...We do it for pride."

Perhaps their misunderstood pride could be calmed down somewhat if they received a good spanking (or caning)...

[kimamey]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

I doubt these guys can really afford bribes, and the prison system is already filled with those who similarly could not. It is the rich and wealthy who are the real cowards, hiding behind walls of wealth and connection.

The key word above, the word that is really at the heart of the problem, is “hierarchy”. These children see no future; they are at the bottom of the pile. Left to rot their by a corrupt system whose only use for them is to work as labourers in factories making their fat rich bosses even fatter and richer.

While one should never excuse the despicable acts of an individual, we certainly need to look at the system that is guilty of creating them.

Oh pleez. More bleeding heart feel good lefty crap. You being born into a family without money does not give you a license to go be a menace to society and then blame the system. Whats your suggestion anyway? Reverting to communism? With your obvious hatred of anyone who has money sounds like you think thats a fine idea. People need to take responsibility for thier own actions. Blaming society will do nothing but create a soceity of entititlement and victimhood.

If you read the post properly you'd see this "While one should never excuse the despicable acts of an individual , we certainly need to look at the system that is guilty of creating them".

It's also nothing to do with a hatred of money but the avoidance of responsibility that it is able to buy in Thailand. Of course this can happen elsewhere as well.

[Katipo]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

I doubt these guys can really afford bribes, and the prison system is already filled with those who similarly could not. It is the rich and wealthy who are the real cowards, hiding behind walls of wealth and connection.

The key word above, the word that is really at the heart of the problem, is “hierarchy”. These children see no future; they are at the bottom of the pile. Left to rot their by a corrupt system whose only use for them is to work as labourers in factories making their fat rich bosses even fatter and richer.

While one should never excuse the despicable acts of an individual, we certainly need to look at the system that is guilty of creating them.

Oh pleez. More bleeding heart feel good lefty crap. You being born into a family without money does not give you a license to go be a menace to society and then blame the system. Whats your suggestion anyway? Reverting to communism? With your obvious hatred of anyone who has money sounds like you think thats a fine idea. People need to take responsibility for thier own actions. Blaming society will do nothing but create a soceity of entititlement and victimhood.

Read my last sentence. Understood? Good. I'm not absolving them of responsibility for their actions. What I am saying is that a large part of this problem, and all problems in Thailand, are caused by a corrupt hierarchical system that exists and is maintained to keep the rich and powerful on top at the expense of everything and everyone else.

Those at the bottom will try anyway they know how to taste a little bit of the respect they see being given to others.

Meanwhile the crimes of the rich and powerful go unreported and unpunished while the attentions of small minded individuals are distracted by those committed by the weak and vulnerable.

[RigPig]

Quote:

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

If their guilty of committing a crime of serious bodily harm then they must pay the penalty & do serious time in prison.

If guilty of violence in a public area then why only 10 weeks in boot camp.. 2 years service would serve them better to get them on the straight & narrow path. Along with a stern warning to the appropriate college to do it's part in educating it's students in the correct way to conduct themselves in public.. or close them down!!!!

Yes the military / boot camp idea may work if as you suggest they are taught a skill / trade, this may stop the feeling of hopelessness and instil some form of self discipline. I don't think 10 weeks in a boot camp will cut it though. It may even encourage more resentment and elevate them to a higher status symbol within their peer group.

Competition is a good thing if it is channelled in the right direction, which it obviously is not here. Coming out of college with a pass mark and not knowing any more than when you went in does not help you progress in life either.

Let's face it the whole system sucks and they (Thais) can't or don't want to see it.

[FarangTalk]

You couldn't be more wrong about that! It's well known that jailbirds make new acquaintances and connections in prison. Also, prisons don't rehabilitate, they just punish. For a young gang member having been in prison is like a badge of honor. Boot camps are they way to go. Put enemies together and make them realize that they're people just like anyone else. Even though it might not work for everyone, it will definitely get some of them to think as the article stated. By the way, boot camps are no joke. They drill you hard there.

US prisons maybe.

However we are in Thailand and this ain't Kansas Dorothy.

[hellodolly]

Those 'students' are scared little cowards.

Prison time rather than boot camps would be the best and most effective way to deal with them.

They are just students for crying out loud. You want to send them to prison where they can learn how to do real big time crime.Hone their killing skills and receive nothing in learning how to live in a peaceful law abiding society.

You are so quick to condemn them to a life outside the law.

Do you figure you will gain from their future criminal actions or just what is it you are trying to accomplish.

[Maseratimartin]

In Germany we called the camps these guys need "Arbeitslager"! (work camp)

I would make them work 12 hours a day or die like a soydog in the street these dirty bastards!

[FarangTalk]

They are just students for crying out loud.

When they picked up grenades, knives and guns they became criminals.

You want to send them to prison where they can learn how to do real big time crime. Hone their killing skills and receive nothing in learning how to live in a peaceful law abiding society.

In Thai prison? Again, this ain't Kansas Dorothy.

[Gary A]

It would be a good idea to build a huge vocational school in the deep south. Take the most trouble making students and transfer them down there. They would soon overcome their petty rivalries.

[zaZa9]

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

Thats not feel good lefty enough for the Europeans on board.

As opposed to your 'hang 'em high' approach ?

No crime where your from huh?

Where is this Utopia then , and are you living there?

[jerrysteve]

One thing is for sure, there is no easy solution.

It makes one wonder what kind of parents they had and what kind of home they grew up in.

[jerrysteve]

I don't think there is a major city in the U.S.A. that is absent of street gangs. It is certainly not limited to Thailand.

[Tchooptip]

Those 'students' are scared little cowards.

Prison time rather than boot camps would be the best and most effective way to deal with them.

Certainly not, yes for many crimes/offences I do believe prison is the good answer, but those are young lads, stupids maybe be ,but no thieves no drug dealers," We do it because it's a legend, passed down from the seniors in our school. We do it for pride." so they have to be educated, possibly in this country with a monk for instance, who could try to explain certain values, through Buddhism concept! Certainly not by throwing them in prison!

[charmonman]

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

Thats not feel good lefty enough for the Europeans on board.

Please accept my apologies. I'm a European but I don't appear to be sticking to your rules. I'll correct that right away for you.

I just wonder where you are from.

I'm from the US, but I wasn't aware of any rules. I was referring to the typical hatred for the military, rich people, Jews and American government we constantly hear from condescending European leftists these days.

I thought we were discussing Thai student gangs. Where the hell did the military, rich people, Jews and the American government come into it?

Talk about condescending!

[timewilltell]

Hmm - well some strong views on this for sure!

Personally I prefer the idea of sending juveniles and young adults convicted of violent crime, into the military and abandoning the military conscription they have here - there will be plenty to join up from the justice system. Prison is not the answer for these people who are misguided by any one of a plethora of problems from poor role models to appalling education, broken families and just a lack of care. Kids in their teens are fired up with all the changes in their body and, some, left to their own devices are just too weak to even begin to think. I agree it is hard to move upwards to anywhere if you start from the poorest classes and it is easy to have a sense of hopelessness. Joining these gangs gives them a sense of social acceptance and power that is absent from their lives. Unfortunately they are too undeveloped mentally or socially to really understand where their choices are leading them even if they stop to think about it, which I am sure many do not.

Even though every society has its problems, and Thailand has it's share, society has a duty to its members for some order, justice and to put systems in place to give every member of that society an opportunity to better themselves. I cannot see how prison solves the problem - it merely punishes people who are ignorant and undeveloped and exposes them to a society, in prison, made up of just the worst people, to learn the wrong values and become worse people - they are weak already so putting them with a set of role models who are criminals themselves is not the brightest idea really. There is discipline and structure but it is one of hopelessness. Military service on the other hand is also disciplined and structured and develops skills which can be used when released, and those skills do not all revolve around shooting and the use of force. They would, hopefully, develop a sense of public service and a sense of social belonging (to the military and country) and maybe have a chance to make a life for themselves - they would certainly be removed from the gang environment (at least that gang). Along with it should be a requirement for incarceration whilst not on duty for a given period depending on offence.

Forcing them into the police force may also be an option but then they would truly have poor role models as far as the police force here goes (that was an attempt at humour folks)!

I guess there would be some people who are just so inherently bad that military service would be unsuitable but personally the idea seems to have a lot of merit to me for the majority of these young men and women.

Edited September 4, 2012 by timewilltell

[charmonman]

Whether you are a right wing American or a "lefty European" I think we can all agree these vocational school gang members are complete idiots. Drafting them into the military and sending them to remote outposts on the Burmese or Cambodian borders would seem a reasonable solution to teach them some self-discipline. Obviously, if they've committed a serious crime of assault or murder then prison is the place for them; that's what prisons are for, after all.