Staff Problems

[whistleblower]

An old Thai once told me this formula: 100 Thais have the working capacity of 10 Chinese or 1 Vietnamese...

That is not true....I take your old Thai had a Vietnamese heritage?

there are also massive differences between, North, East, South, and if they are Chinese ethnic and most important what kind of work.

And strange is that 22 year old staff in the office are still considered as children who help

He is from Petchaburi,

the comparison between Thai and Chinese sounds about right; he is from that generation who could still be shocked about Thailands almighty ally lost his offensive war against Vietnam...

I take it you have never worked in a Thai company for a Thai boss? Correct me if I a wrong.

you said that already

[chiangmaikelly]

That is not true....I take your old Thai had a Vietnamese heritage?

there are also massive differences between, North, East, South, and if they are Chinese ethnic and most important what kind of work.

And strange is that 22 year old staff in the office are still considered as children who help

He is from Petchaburi,

the comparison between Thai and Chinese sounds about right; he is from that generation who could still be shocked about Thailands almighty ally lost his offensive war against Vietnam...

I take it you have never worked in a Thai company for a Thai boss? Correct me if I a wrong.

you said that already

But Chonburiram did not answer. Everyone else did but I didn't ask them. I figure Chonburiram missed it.

[Beetlejuice]

A little difficult to side with the OP without first knowing the circumstances.

What sort of company is it?

Are the staffs employed full or part time?

What sort of working conditions and contracts plus how much do they get paid and for how many hours work?

Is the OP a foreigner and does he legally own the company under Thai law or is it solely under the names of Thais?

Sorry but without having knowledge of the company setup than this appears to be just another Thai bashing thread because there is always two sides to a story.

[whistleblower]

^^^

Maybe Chonburiram is the smart one!

[mrtoad]

You get differing problems with Thai and Western Staff, I have 14 Western Staff and 90 Thai staff, still have to deal with BS from both.

[chiangmaikelly]

^^^

Maybe Chonburiram is the smart one!

He made a statement about Thai workers that he would have known was in error if he ever worked with a Thai company. I wondered if he actually knew what he was talking about or was like most of you people and had never worked in Thailand for a Thai boss or company.

[whistleblower]

^^^

Maybe Chonburiram is the smart one!

He made a statement about Thai workers that he would have known was in error if he ever worked with a Thai company. I wondered if he actually knew what he was talking about or was like most of you people and had never worked in Thailand for a Thai boss or company.

Well i have been here for 14 years worked for a couple of thai companys and now working for a taiwanese company so whats your point? your right and everyone is wrong?

[chiangmaikelly]

^^^

Maybe Chonburiram is the smart one!

He made a statement about Thai workers that he would have known was in error if he ever worked with a Thai company. I wondered if he actually knew what he was talking about or was like most of you people and had never worked in Thailand for a Thai boss or company.

Well i have been here for 14 years worked for a couple of thai companys and now working for a taiwanese company so whats your point? your right and everyone is wrong?

No not at all. It was a question for Chonburiram not you at all. Actually I think you are stalking me.

[whistleblower]

^^^

Maybe Chonburiram is the smart one!

He made a statement about Thai workers that he would have known was in error if he ever worked with a Thai company. I wondered if he actually knew what he was talking about or was like most of you people and had never worked in Thailand for a Thai boss or company.

Well i have been here for 14 years worked for a couple of thai companys and now working for a taiwanese company so whats your point? your right and everyone is wrong?

No not at all. It was a question for Chonburiram not you at all. Actually I think you are stalking me.

i can assure you im not stalking you. Im too busy trying to find a good steak restaurant, whilst according to you being a misogynist and ageist at the same time.

[chiangmaikelly]

He made a statement about Thai workers that he would have known was in error if he ever worked with a Thai company. I wondered if he actually knew what he was talking about or was like most of you people and had never worked in Thailand for a Thai boss or company.

Well i have been here for 14 years worked for a couple of thai companys and now working for a taiwanese company so whats your point? your right and everyone is wrong?

No not at all. It was a question for Chonburiram not you at all. Actually I think you are stalking me.

i can assure you im not stalking you. Im too busy trying to find a good steak restaurant, whilst according to you being a misogynist and ageist at the same time.

Singapore would be my suggestion. I used to work for Lawry's.

[pigeonjake]

now now boys,,play fair, or oll sack you both,,lol.

and yes it was thai company i worked for

[Chonburiram]

I take it you have never worked in a Thai company for a Thai boss? Correct me if I a wrong.

Hey, cmk I did answer! Just read the last sentence from your request.

[chiangmaikelly]

now now boys,,play fair, or oll sack you both,,lol.

and yes it was thai company i worked for

Why don't you think Chonburiram won't tell us he has never worked for a Thai company?

[Beetlejuice]

Legitimate Farang business owners here in Thailand are taking advantage of Thailand’s low cost of labour and getting Thai workers at bargain rates, compared to the cost of labourers in many overseas countries.

If they want loyal, enthusiastic and work conscientious staff, than first the company has to be completely above board, offer incentives, such as maximum or above maximum wages, perhaps work bonuses, pension schemes, good working conditions and so on, the same as the laws impose in the West, rather than expecting a yes massa approach from they’re staff and want them to smile at the same time.

The only reasons a company would show preference for Burmese workers with virtually no statutory rights rather than Thai staff in Thailand is for reasons of low cost almost slave labour = big profits.

Also it is well known that farangs are the real behind the scenes owners of hundreds, perhaps thousands of Thai businesses, often using their Thai spouses, girlfriends or some other partners as fronts for these businesses and yet are still trying to call the shots.

From my experiences, if treated fairly and with respect, Thai people will move mountains for you. The majority of criticisms, negative opinions and forms of racism directed against Thai people we read so often on these threads, are completely unfounded and mainly it is the pot calling the kettle black.

[h90]

An old Thai once told me this formula: 100 Thais have the working capacity of 10 Chinese or 1 Vietnamese...

That is not true....I take your old Thai had a Vietnamese heritage?

there are also massive differences between, North, East, South, and if they are Chinese ethnic and most important what kind of work.

And strange is that 22 year old staff in the office are still considered as children who help

He is from Petchaburi,

the comparison between Thai and Chinese sounds about right; he is from that generation who could still be shocked about Thailands almighty ally lost his offensive war against Vietnam...

rofl on the almighty ally....

A 1:10 or 1:100 more efficiency is nonsense, technically not possible unless Agent Orange made some Vietnamese with 20 hands.

[h90]

Legitimate Farang business owners here in Thailand are taking advantage of Thailand’s low cost of labour and getting Thai workers at bargain rates, compared to the cost of labourers in many overseas countries.

If they want loyal, enthusiastic and work conscientious staff, than first the company has to be completely above board, offer incentives, such as maximum or above maximum wages, perhaps work bonuses, pension schemes, good working conditions and so on, the same as the laws impose in the West, rather than expecting a yes massa approach from they’re staff and want them to smile at the same time.

The only reasons a company would show preference for Burmese workers with virtually no statutory rights rather than Thai staff in Thailand is for reasons of low cost almost slave labour = big profits.

Also it is well known that farangs are the real behind the scenes owners of hundreds, perhaps thousands of Thai businesses, often using their Thai spouses, girlfriends or some other partners as fronts for these businesses and yet are still trying to call the shots.

From my experiences, if treated fairly and with respect, Thai people will move mountains for you. The majority of criticisms, negative opinions and forms of racism directed against Thai people we read so often on these threads, are completely unfounded and mainly it is the pot calling the kettle black.

No that isn't true. First this long time planing that people 20 years old focus on what they get when they retired simply does not exist here. And most of the people aren't unwilling. They do their best. They are unable to do it better so higher salary doesn't help. And it isn't a racism. It is a culture thing. In middle Europe it is culture to optimize everything. From baby people learn to save electric, Germans (and I am not German) all the time speak about how they could make it more efficient and better. It is kind of fashion to do that. Here other things are important. Schools here teach to regard Thailand, be a good Buddhist, learn all the won wars of Thailand and how to follow, but not Mathematics, and own thinking.

So it is the culture and the educational system. No need to tell it is racism.

[pigeonjake]

Legitimate Farang business owners here in Thailand are taking advantage of Thailand’s low cost of labour and getting Thai workers at bargain rates, compared to the cost of labourers in many overseas countries.

If they want loyal, enthusiastic and work conscientious staff, than first the company has to be completely above board, offer incentives, such as maximum or above maximum wages, perhaps work bonuses, pension schemes, good working conditions and so on, the same as the laws impose in the West, rather than expecting a yes massa approach from they’re staff and want them to smile at the same time.

The only reasons a company would show preference for Burmese workers with virtually no statutory rights rather than Thai staff in Thailand is for reasons of low cost almost slave labour = big profits.

Also it is well known that farangs are the real behind the scenes owners of hundreds, perhaps thousands of Thai businesses, often using their Thai spouses, girlfriends or some other partners as fronts for these businesses and yet are still trying to call the shots.

From my experiences, if treated fairly and with respect, Thai people will move mountains for you. The majority of criticisms, negative opinions and forms of racism directed against Thai people we read so often on these threads, are completely unfounded and mainly it is the pot calling the kettle black.

i agree with you,

but like i said i worked in a stailess steel fabrication shop, working for mars,nessle ect and our workforce was very very good, now im a time served welder myself, before going into supervision ect, so i went into the workshop had some craic with them welded both handed to show i could weld,,lol,,

and i must say they were very good tradesmen, it is all about the labour costs, a sheet of stainless is the same price anywere its all down to labour, but what i will say is you have to get the repect of your men and women,

without going into to much detail, the m/d of the company was a cockney and the men hated him, he didnt show them any repect, they were good lads,

now me who used to go into the shop for a walk round, yes i did pull them on safety, but i also had a chat with them and a bit of craic, and when i left some were in tears,

i had a good time and a good job, but even i couldnt get on with the m/d and his chinese hi/so wife

[Beetlejuice]

Legitimate Farang business owners here in Thailand are taking advantage of Thailand’s low cost of labour and getting Thai workers at bargain rates, compared to the cost of labourers in many overseas countries.

If they want loyal, enthusiastic and work conscientious staff, than first the company has to be completely above board, offer incentives, such as maximum or above maximum wages, perhaps work bonuses, pension schemes, good working conditions and so on, the same as the laws impose in the West, rather than expecting a yes massa approach from they’re staff and want them to smile at the same time.

The only reasons a company would show preference for Burmese workers with virtually no statutory rights rather than Thai staff in Thailand is for reasons of low cost almost slave labour = big profits.

Also it is well known that farangs are the real behind the scenes owners of hundreds, perhaps thousands of Thai businesses, often using their Thai spouses, girlfriends or some other partners as fronts for these businesses and yet are still trying to call the shots.

From my experiences, if treated fairly and with respect, Thai people will move mountains for you. The majority of criticisms, negative opinions and forms of racism directed against Thai people we read so often on these threads, are completely unfounded and mainly it is the pot calling the kettle black.

i agree with you,

but like i said i worked in a stailess steel fabrication shop, working for mars,nessle ect and our workforce was very very good, now im a time served welder myself, before going into supervision ect, so i went into the workshop had some craic with them welded both handed to show i could weld,,lol,,

and i must say they were very good tradesmen, it is all about the labour costs, a sheet of stainless is the same price anywere its all down to labour, but what i will say is you have to get the repect of your men and women,

without going into to much detail, the m/d of the company was a cockney and the men hated him, he didnt show them any repect, they were good lads,

now me who used to go into the shop for a walk round, yes i did pull them on safety, but i also had a chat with them and a bit of craic, and when i left some were in tears,

i had a good time and a good job, but even i couldnt get on with the m/d and his chinese hi/so wife

Pigeonjake, you are a man after my own heart, level headed, experienced and a true professional. I am not the type who gives out compliments lightly, if you read my posts over the years.

What you say; you have to get the respect of your men and women and labour costs, is spot on. It`s all a main part of what makes a company tick and a success.. Team work, loyalty and efficiency if you`re a profit making company.

I was a senior within the company I worked for and I had managers above me. Our main manager was an ex-military man, ruled with a rod of iron, he came across as an authoritarian figure and everyone respected him because his motto was, an efficient run company is a happy company = a successful company, where all the workers fit into the scheme of things and will serve with pride.

And those words have never been proven wrong yet. This pertains with all outfits and companies that the efficiency and enthusiasm of staff extends from the top or as can be described in one word: morale.

Perhaps some of these young business owners with 70 years managerial expertise should consider going on a managerial course before taking on the task of employing staff?

[Beetlejuice]

Legitimate Farang business owners here in Thailand are taking advantage of Thailand’s low cost of labour and getting Thai workers at bargain rates, compared to the cost of labourers in many overseas countries.

If they want loyal, enthusiastic and work conscientious staff, than first the company has to be completely above board, offer incentives, such as maximum or above maximum wages, perhaps work bonuses, pension schemes, good working conditions and so on, the same as the laws impose in the West, rather than expecting a yes massa approach from they’re staff and want them to smile at the same time.

The only reasons a company would show preference for Burmese workers with virtually no statutory rights rather than Thai staff in Thailand is for reasons of low cost almost slave labour = big profits.

Also it is well known that farangs are the real behind the scenes owners of hundreds, perhaps thousands of Thai businesses, often using their Thai spouses, girlfriends or some other partners as fronts for these businesses and yet are still trying to call the shots.

From my experiences, if treated fairly and with respect, Thai people will move mountains for you. The majority of criticisms, negative opinions and forms of racism directed against Thai people we read so often on these threads, are completely unfounded and mainly it is the pot calling the kettle black.

No that isn't true. First this long time planing that people 20 years old focus on what they get when they retired simply does not exist here. And most of the people aren't unwilling. They do their best. They are unable to do it better so higher salary doesn't help. And it isn't a racism. It is a culture thing. In middle Europe it is culture to optimize everything. From baby people learn to save electric, Germans (and I am not German) all the time speak about how they could make it more efficient and better. It is kind of fashion to do that. Here other things are important. Schools here teach to regard Thailand, be a good Buddhist, learn all the won wars of Thailand and how to follow, but not Mathematics, and own thinking.

So it is the culture and the educational system. No need to tell it is racism.

You are describing this as a culture thing, but it`s all a matter of interpretation.

Others may perceive this as equating certain ethnic groups with specific traits and undesirable behaviours, such as laziness, being non-ambitious, unreliable and having limitations that are of little worth to their genius employers, so why pay them more or provide better working conditions because these people have just not got it in them? My answers to that are: Rubbish. This is pure arrogance on the part of the foreign employers that appear to give Thai people very little credibility with the view that they are inferior in many respects. And this is how your comments come across to me.

The OP has stated that he is considering replacing one ethnic group with another and has not mentioned trying other techniques to make his present Thai staff more reliable or giving any better incentives to make them want to work harder and stay, or more likely the case, has failed to research into the flaws within his wife`s and his own abilities to manage the staff. Unless you believe that all Thais are the same, so whats the point? Which is more or less what you are saying.

So how are we meant to interpret the meaning of that?

[pigeonjake]

i didnt just give out orders, i would explain, like when i asked everyone at lunch break switch all welding machines off and other things,

i explained, 20 welding machines running over the lunch period is 20hours and over the week 6 or 7 days that a lot of electric, and once i explained the understood, and would turn the gear off,

i wasnt needed in that factory, the m/d had all he needed around him but couldnt see it,

sorry just a little story,

he said to me one day Ron i need a breakdown of the jobs we have ongoing and aprox finnishing time,ok,

i had 3 thai engineers under me, i go out go to ling tell her the same and say please and thank you,,

she comes in the office a couple of hours later with the full work all printed off on A3 paper, great work,

then comes the monday morning engineering meeting, the M/D, ron have you got that breakdown i ask for, passed it to him, he held it up said to his wife , this is why i wanted a falang operations manager,,,

i winked at ling with a little smile, he didnt need me, but because he had no contact with his workforce he didnt know what he had there,

yes i did save him money by finding errors on drawing before they went to fabrication, but i could of solved that too before i left,

comunication is the main part of management, without that you have nothing,,

but i was just a raggy arse welder,,lol,

[jacktrip]

most likely some bs bar owner projecting his drinking and womanizing problems onto bar staff. not to many foreigners in the recycling or laundry business around here.

[farang000999]

try paying them a decent salary imho

if u want to pay minimum wage u cant be surprised when you get minimal productivity. of course the Burmese are happier to work for the minimum cause it's more valuable to them.

[Boyce]

we pay our staff , a good wage and tips , and bonus in our shops and we still have the same problems as thaipod, you just cant get good thai staff . cambodia and burma people want to work. unlike the thais,

[IMA_FARANG]

There's almost always a disconnect between "Boss" and "Staff".

First of all, as the "Boss"....I ask you honestly to tell me the name just one person of your Thai "Staff" actually uses when talking with her friends....what name do her friends use to addrss her?

If you can't tell me that then maybe you shouldn't be surorised that your "Staff" doesn't "respect" you.

At one time I was the "boss" of a maintainence team....5 people.

This was not however in Thailand.

We had certain customers that we had a schedule of required routine maintainance we kept to.

This schedule couild be varied somewhat but the routine maintainence had to be completed.

Never once, did the customer bother to call me and ask me to please change the day that I arrived at their site to do that routine maintainance....even when for some reason that site would be closed down and locked when the maint team arrived.

I, as the head of the team, ALWAYS contacted the person in charge at least a couple of days ahead of the scheduled visit of my maintainance team....telling them exactly what I needed to do, what areas the team would need access to, and requesting them to contact me if for some reason their plans changed so I could reschedule my teams visit.

They never did....and the number of times the maint team (and I) arrived to find some reason that we could not accomplish our scheduled maintainance was greater than those we could.

It was just a fact that I had to live with as head of the maint team....the customer always had a different priority than we did as the maint people.

We were supposed to adapt our shedule at a minute's notice to their whims....but if something broke down and needed repair.....,we had to drop everything we were doing and rush to fix their equipment.

That's what I meant by the diisconnect between "Boss" and "Staff".

I suspect that same disconnect between those two groups is at least as great in Thailand...if not greater.

[krisb]

Lack of respect for the boss.

[thaipod]

My company is only small with no more than 10 staff and with a small manufacturing plant . We pay them the right wages with bonuses and social security .Used to employ burmese with the same packages and never had a problems they always turned up on time and work some time refusing to go home to they finished what they had to do . I would train them once and they would do good work.

Now it's been a hard to continually monitor the staff I have now . It's just a matter of luck here some are good and some are bad

[yourauntbob]

The work ethic of office workers is one of the main reasons this is still a developing country (along with corruption, education etc). I would say be more selective in your hiring.

[livinthailandos]

To be fair everyplace has staff problems in one form or another but have to make sure to have certain policies in place that make it clear what will happen if certain rules are broken? I know this is thailand but you still have to try, if you have nothing in place staff pretty much run your business not you

On the note of employment law, yes it is more in favor of employee that its definetly true but thats why you make sure to have a probation period as well.

I wish you good luck

[chiangmaikelly]

Do you think William Heinecke has any problems? You guys whine a good game but don't play one. Not everyone has problems only the failures have problems. Read about the people who succeed and stay away from the whiners who have nothing constructive to say about Thai labor. And don't tell me about it. Tell Bill Heinecke he is not going to succeed.

[harryfrompattaya]

I think when you pay chicken shit to workers what do you expect. Pay 800 Baht a day and get good workers.

30 years ago on my pig farm in America I paid 100 hundred a day double yes on Saturday to my lowest paid worker and paid income tax on over 100,000