Staff Problems

[cheeryble]

we pay our staff , a good wage and tips , and bonus in our shops and we still have the same problems as thaipod, you just cant get good thai staff . cambodia and burma people want to work. unlike the thais,

Without taking one side or other of the argument I was wondering if the thing about paying higher wages being the key was true before you said it wasn't.

Because I have been told by someone that has studied management in depth and run a major business that blanket higher wages categorically doesn't make a difference to output. The staff need to have enough for their needs.....an essential minimum. After that it's down to skilful communication, both in the form of his most important thing.....interpersonal skills....and keeping staff informed after which they will tend to improve matters themselves. As in systems theory so in management: the tighter the feedback the more intelligent the system. He once reduced the appalling breakage/loss/misdirection etc rate to cargo at American Airlines merely by the simple step of having large boards put up at the hubs in the form of a table which stated detail of every "wrong" cargo event so the workers could see them. He said standing up wagging a finger is Neanderthal and useless. Just give them the right information and they will cure it themselves. They did and losses went down an astonishing 70% without a word being said.

Edited September 9, 2012 by cheeryble

[h90]

I think when you pay chicken shit to workers what do you expect. Pay 800 Baht a day and get good workers.

30 years ago on my pig farm in America I paid 100 hundred a day double yes on Saturday to my lowest paid worker and paid income tax on over 100,000

Everything together this is approx. what they get....over 20K per month

[harryfrompattaya]

I think when you pay chicken shit to workers what do you expect. Pay 800 Baht a day and get good workers.

30 years ago on my pig farm in America I paid 100 hundred a day double yes on Saturday to my lowest paid worker and paid income tax on over 100,000

Everything together this is approx. what they get....over 20K per month

Farm labor has changed in America my Cousin Leroy who has 15,000 pigs pays his poorest paid worker 900 dollars week plus about 24 for benefits and earns a little more than I did.

Did you ever raise pigs in Mississippi? .

[maxme]

What sort of business are we talking about? I'm guessing low skilled workers with low wages...correct?

I'm sorry... there are other kinds?!?

[maxme]

Legitimate Farang business owners here in Thailand are taking advantage of Thailand’s low cost of labour and getting Thai workers at bargain rates, compared to the cost of labourers in many overseas countries.

If they want loyal, enthusiastic and work conscientious staff, than first the company has to be completely above board, offer incentives, such as maximum or above maximum wages, perhaps work bonuses, pension schemes, good working conditions and so on, the same as the laws impose in the West, rather than expecting a yes massa approach from they’re staff and want them to smile at the same time.

The only reasons a company would show preference for Burmese workers with virtually no statutory rights rather than Thai staff in Thailand is for reasons of low cost almost slave labour = big profits.

Also it is well known that farangs are the real behind the scenes owners of hundreds, perhaps thousands of Thai businesses, often using their Thai spouses, girlfriends or some other partners as fronts for these businesses and yet are still trying to call the shots.

From my experiences, if treated fairly and with respect, Thai people will move mountains for you. The majority of criticisms, negative opinions and forms of racism directed against Thai people we read so often on these threads, are completely unfounded and mainly it is the pot calling the kettle black.

No that isn't true. First this long time planing that people 20 years old focus on what they get when they retired simply does not exist here. And most of the people aren't unwilling. They do their best. They are unable to do it better so higher salary doesn't help. And it isn't a racism. It is a culture thing. In middle Europe it is culture to optimize everything. From baby people learn to save electric, Germans (and I am not German) all the time speak about how they could make it more efficient and better. It is kind of fashion to do that. Here other things are important. Schools here teach to regard Thailand, be a good Buddhist, learn all the won wars of Thailand and how to follow, but not Mathematics, and own thinking.

So it is the culture and the educational system. No need to tell it is racism.

You are describing this as a culture thing, but it`s all a matter of interpretation.

Others may perceive this as equating certain ethnic groups with specific traits and undesirable behaviours, such as laziness, being non-ambitious, unreliable and having limitations that are of little worth to their genius employers, so why pay them more or provide better working conditions because these people have just not got it in them? My answers to that are: Rubbish. This is pure arrogance on the part of the foreign employers that appear to give Thai people very little credibility with the view that they are inferior in many respects. And this is how your comments come across to me.

The OP has stated that he is considering replacing one ethnic group with another and has not mentioned trying other techniques to make his present Thai staff more reliable or giving any better incentives to make them want to work harder and stay, or more likely the case, has failed to research into the flaws within his wife`s and his own abilities to manage the staff. Unless you believe that all Thais are the same, so whats the point? Which is more or less what you are saying.

So how are we meant to interpret the meaning of that?

The OP didn't mentioned where he lives but I can tell you that in the south , this is common problem for any company and has more to do with the mentality of the working class than anything.

Some of my friends are in the restaurant and construction business and encounter all sorts of problems with the younger generation of .. get this... the Thai men.

It all ranges from not coming for 4 days during a work week because on Friday it's drinking day and then one apparently needs 3 days recouping, to the weather forecast predicts rain and we don't like that even if we work INDOORS...

It is not a cultural thing but has to do more with what I was pointing earlier in another thread... that Thais are not taught to be individuals. Some of them have families yet can be absent for a couple weeks because they just received their paychecks and must celebrate.

Responsibility and loyalty comes as much from learning in schools as it comes from their upbringing. If people were taught how to take care of themselves and their societies you wouldn't see the daily chaos that Thailand has now and do keep in mind that the majority of the Thai population is not from the middle class.

[h90]

I think when you pay chicken shit to workers what do you expect. Pay 800 Baht a day and get good workers.

30 years ago on my pig farm in America I paid 100 hundred a day double yes on Saturday to my lowest paid worker and paid income tax on over 100,000

Everything together this is approx. what they get....over 20K per month

Farm labor has changed in America my Cousin Leroy who has 15,000 pigs pays his poorest paid worker 900 dollars week plus about 24 for benefits and earns a little more than I did.

Did you ever raise pigs in Mississippi? .

No I am European and compare Thais with Germans and Austrians I worked with......big difference.

[maxme]

I think when you pay chicken shit to workers what do you expect. Pay 800 Baht a day and get good workers.

30 years ago on my pig farm in America I paid 100 hundred a day double yes on Saturday to my lowest paid worker and paid income tax on over 100,000

Everything together this is approx. what they get....over 20K per month

Farm labor has changed in America my Cousin Leroy who has 15,000 pigs pays his poorest paid worker 900 dollars week plus about 24 for benefits and earns a little more than I did.

Did you ever raise pigs in Mississippi? .

No I am European and compare Thais with Germans and Austrians I worked with......big difference.

Although there are some dubious farang companies here, a lot of them do pay better than the average Thai company. A lot of people get rich from skinning the poor guy and that's been the standard of some for generations now but it is always good to hear that some don't follow the mainstream.

[ishan14]

Went into my local post office a couple of days ago, three girls behind the counter all sitting at the same desk doing each others hair and putting on make-up. Not even one looked up when I walked in. There is a very poor work ethic with a lot of Thais.

same happened to me at the latphrao101 branch of Bangkok Bank.

[cheeryble]

Went into my local post office a couple of days ago, three girls behind the counter all sitting at the same desk doing each others hair and putting on make-up. Not even one looked up when I walked in. There is a very poor work ethic with a lot of Thais.

same happened to me at the latphrao101 branch of Bangkok Bank.

You were lucky you didn't go into Koncept in CM which I had the displeasure to do last week.

The stump puller who I eventually got to attempt serve me and the covey of other non-walking dead would have made your three girls look like finishing school prefects.

[Furbie]

we pay our staff , a good wage and tips , and bonus in our shops and we still have the same problems as thaipod, you just cant get good thai staff . cambodia and burma people want to work. unlike the thais,

Without taking one side or other of the argument I was wondering if the thing about paying higher wages being the key was true before you said it wasn't.

Because I have been told by someone that has studied management in depth and run a major business that blanket higher wages categorically doesn't make a difference to output. The staff need to have enough for their needs.....an essential minimum. After that it's down to skilful communication, both in the form of his most important thing.....interpersonal skills....and keeping staff informed after which they will tend to improve matters themselves. As in systems theory so in management: the tighter the feedback the more intelligent the system. He once reduced the appalling breakage/loss/misdirection etc rate to cargo at American Airlines merely by the simple step of having large boards put up at the hubs in the form of a table which stated detail of every "wrong" cargo event so the workers could see them. He said standing up wagging a finger is Neanderthal and useless. Just give them the right information and they will cure it themselves. They did and losses went down an astonishing 70% without a word being said.

In my view, too many people here equate pay with motivation. Motivation comes from a number of sources – job satisfaction, good company, respect, interesting work, etc. Pay is only one factor – though for many, it is a major factor and may be the only consideration for low wage earners. Look at the Japanese MNCs here - they pay mid and senior level Thais less than the Western ones.

That being said, it can often be difficult to manage and motivate Thai employees. This has many, many causes. A good deal of it is training related. Some of it is inexperience in the work place in general. Many westerners have their first job as teenagers. A Thai with an MA may have their first job at 26! We have a particular problem because many of our employees come from wealthier families. Pay is not a major consideration for about 50% of our mid to senior level people – recognition and interesting work is. Knowing this, we hand out the best assignments to the best performers, the rest get the boring stuff, most of them move on after a while.

In short, a good manager knows what will motivate their staff and their individual development needs. While good companies know how to turn that need into action.

[travelmann]

Lets be real here MANY Thais simply are bone idle as are MANY people worldwide, doesnt matter what you pay them.

In Thailand the Bone idle appear to get away with it more than other countries Ive known.

[Plucky]

I think that by and large, most Thais just don’t care a whole lot about their mostly crappy jobs. We get all worked up into a frenzy and run around red-faced, look down our nose and shake our fists, and they laugh. I don’t think it’s childish, I just think they have different priorities. They quit and go help with the harvest or because their mom is sick, it would not even occur to them that their job has some importance beyond generating income. I respect that, and in a lot of ways admire it.

I know I can get at least twice the work out of an average factory worker in the US than I can from an average worker in Thailand, but I have to pay the US worker five or ten times as much.

We should consider ourselves lucky. If the average Thai had the drive and work ethic of the average American, we westerners would not be able to earn a living here.

A German labor could do at least the double, sometimes I think maybe triple. But a lot is balanced because the Thais have no problem working 10-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week.

We worked for 3 month from 8 AM till 1-3 AM, 6 days a week. Of course the labor made excellent money and liked it therefor. If you do that in German the labor union and the state would complete freak out.

That compensate a lot....

You lost me. You worked where and for who and with whom?

I work now in Bangkok, for my company, with Thai staff, together with my wife who is Chinese ethnic from the south of Thailand.

Prove it.

[mrtoad]

Do you think William Heinecke has any problems? You guys whine a good game but don't play one. Not everyone has problems only the failures have problems. Read about the people who succeed and stay away from the whiners who have nothing constructive to say about Thai labor. And don't tell me about it. Tell Bill Heinecke he is not going to succeed.

I am sure that Heinicke has all the usual problems that any company would encounter with a large amount of staff. There are, and always will be a variety of things that happen within the work place, Heinicke is not immune to them either.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think that by and large, most Thais just don’t care a whole lot about their mostly crappy jobs. We get all worked up into a frenzy and run around red-faced, look down our nose and shake our fists, and they laugh. I don’t think it’s childish, I just think they have different priorities. They quit and go help with the harvest or because their mom is sick, it would not even occur to them that their job has some importance beyond generating income. I respect that, and in a lot of ways admire it.

I know I can get at least twice the work out of an average factory worker in the US than I can from an average worker in Thailand, but I have to pay the US worker five or ten times as much.

We should consider ourselves lucky. If the average Thai had the drive and work ethic of the average American, we westerners would not be able to earn a living here.

A German labor could do at least the double, sometimes I think maybe triple. But a lot is balanced because the Thais have no problem working 10-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week.

We worked for 3 month from 8 AM till 1-3 AM, 6 days a week. Of course the labor made excellent money and liked it therefor. If you do that in German the labor union and the state would complete freak out.

That compensate a lot....

You lost me. You worked where and for who and with whom?

I work now in Bangkok, for my company, with Thai staff, together with my wife who is Chinese ethnic from the south of Thailand.

What is a Chinese ethnic? Is she from China? I mean was she born in China?

[Plucky]

Why does everyone always bring up that their missus part Chinese from 17 generations ago. Its just such a crap thing to keep throwing in every conversation.

[chiangmaikelly]

Why does everyone always bring up that their missus part Chinese from 17 generations ago. Its just such a crap thing to keep throwing in every conversation.

I think we are all anxiously awaiting h90 to tell us!

[robblok]

Why does everyone always bring up that their missus part Chinese from 17 generations ago. Its just such a crap thing to keep throwing in every conversation.

We all know a chinese gf does wonders for your rating. If your just a mug with a BG your rated lower. So people love to confirm that status.

[chiangmaikelly]

Why does everyone always bring up that their missus part Chinese from 17 generations ago. Its just such a crap thing to keep throwing in every conversation.

We all know a chinese gf does wonders for your rating. If your just a mug with a BG your rated lower. So people love to confirm that status.

What abuot a Chinese bar girl from Hong Kong? Is that OK? Hard to believe she is over 70 now.

[robblok]

Why does everyone always bring up that their missus part Chinese from 17 generations ago. Its just such a crap thing to keep throwing in every conversation.

We all know a chinese gf does wonders for your rating. If your just a mug with a BG your rated lower. So people love to confirm that status.

What abuot a Chinese bar girl from Hong Kong? Is that OK? Hard to believe she is over 70 now.

You will have to ask the experts im not good in rating. Remember i only bash old people (according to some). Butt he girl in the pic looked cute.

[chiangmaikelly]

Why does everyone always bring up that their missus part Chinese from 17 generations ago. Its just such a crap thing to keep throwing in every conversation.

We all know a chinese gf does wonders for your rating. If your just a mug with a BG your rated lower. So people love to confirm that status.

What abuot a Chinese bar girl from Hong Kong? Is that OK? Hard to believe she is over 70 now.

You will have to ask the experts im not good in rating. Remember i only bash old people (according to some). Butt he girl in the pic looked cute.

That's Nancy Kwan. She's an American. It used to be OK to talk about hookers, In 1961, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry declined to employ Kwan as a teacher for the soldiers. The infantry was training for military involvement in Malay (now part of Malaysia), and the regiment's commanders believed that the infantrymen should be taught the Chinese language and how to handle chopsticks. They must be relatives of posters on Thai Visa ya think?