Sukhothai Business District Flooded

[MikeOboe57]

No big fan of Yingluck but when did she promise there would be no flooding? I believe the only thing she said is there would not be a repeat of last year. If she said there would be no flooding in a country with monsoons and much low lying areas then she obviously has a serious problem but if she didn't then I have to think posters who keep claiming she said it are the ones with the problem.

Bottom line is I think it is common sense there is not many countries that can guarantee they won't have floods ... kind of like a guarantee there won't be hurricanes in the US this year. I highly doubt she made any such claim of their being no flooding in Thailand this year.

A quick forum search reveals:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/562290-pm-yingluck-promises-no-severe-flooding-in-thailand-in-2012/page__hl__yingluck%20no%20more%20floods

It's easy, just try it.

[IMA_FARANG]

Residents and shopkeepers moved their belongings to higher ground during the night as floodwaters from the Yom River gushed out from underground sewers and washed away some pavement at the riverside market.

----------------------

Exactly as occured in Bangkok last November.

Higher walls around rivers and such are not going to stop flooding in areas that are lower than the river or canal level IF that area is lower than the high water river or canal flood water level.

That is because the storm drains or sewer system is usually directly connected to the river or canal, and there is no provision make for stopping water from feeding back into the storm drain or sewer from the river or canal.

That's exactly what happened here in Bangkok last year....I saw it happening right in front of my house.

Just basic high school level physics.

[Nisa]

No big fan of Yingluck but when did she promise there would be no flooding? I believe the only thing she said is there would not be a repeat of last year. If she said there would be no flooding in a country with monsoons and much low lying areas then she obviously has a serious problem but if she didn't then I have to think posters who keep claiming she said it are the ones with the problem.

Bottom line is I think it is common sense there is not many countries that can guarantee they won't have floods ... kind of like a guarantee there won't be hurricanes in the US this year. I highly doubt she made any such claim of their being no flooding in Thailand this year.

A quick forum search reveals:

http://www.thaivisa.... no more floods

It's easy, just try it.

If that is all you got then she didn't say any such thing. Not even one direct quote from her but the first line in the article sums up her words ... The prime minister has assured the public that the government will not allow the repeat of last year’s flood crisis in 2012.

Reading comprehension is not as easy as an internet search but something we should all try.

[otherstuff1957]

BTW, does anybody know if the ancient ruins in Sukkothai are better protected now, or were they destroyed too much anyway last year? 'Unfortunately' I couldn't visit the governement water management propaganda show recently , and there seems to be hardly any other information about what has been done so far, escpecially not outside of Bangkok.

The ruins in Sukhothai are about 10km from the river. I don't think they flooded last year and I'm fairly sure that they are not flooded now, though someone on the ground there might be able to confirm or refute that.

[ResX]

Update:

Rush to 'bag' heart of Sukhothai

THE NATION

Gap in Yom River barrier swamps areas up to 1m-deep

FARMS IN PHITSANULOK FLOODED

"Only the Yom River had problems. It's because there is no dam connected to it yet," he said.

Lertwiroj Kowattana, head of the Irrigation Department, said large dams such as Bhumibol and Sirikit should be able to take the runoff from rainstorms upriver.

"But for downriver zones, flash floods may strike some areas."

.

-- The Nation 2012-09-11

I think it is not a wise statement if he is an authority that has some says in dams operations. Dams can be used mitigate flash floods downstream if the correct strategy is used.

The problem is those two dams in the north released water greater than it should. How much water that has been released from these two dams since the November last years? At 50% the net draw down storage margins you have created for Bhumibol and Sirkit dam could be around 10 billion cubic meters. Don't you think you have overkilled the potential future floods? With average annual rainfall of te catchments for these two dams around 15 billion cubic meters what probability that you can refill the 10 billion cubic meters margin over the next two months? Let me suggest. It is smaller than 1 in 3000.

Excessive drawdown the most upstream dams is not FOC. Note that the river system has only one safe outlet namely via its river mouth.. Too much water being pushed from upstream means less water can be stored by natural retention capability of the Chao Pharaya and less water can be released from dams down stream. According to my estimate natural retention capacity of the Chao Pharaya varies between 1.5-2 billion cubic meters depends on its water level. At full level, its natural retention capacity is zero. Therefore, the river are prone to flash floods.more often than normal.

If my evaluation for the current state of flood control strategy means something, here it is. You have unnecessary storage reserve margin by at least 3 billion cubic meters in the north. You run short of natural retention capacity of the Chao Paharaya by close to 500 million cubic meters. you may not able to draw down dams downstream up 2.5 billion cubic meters if you have such dams. If you managed to get that 2.5 billion cubic meter draw down that means you have made the probability of occurence and intensity of flash floods along the Chao Pharaya bigger than normal.

If I were you I should have drawn down dams in the north by 7 billion cubic meters net margin, letting refill to maximum probability to be at 1%. Obviously I have increased the possibility of spillages for these two dams in return for reducing posssibility of the occurence of flash floods via creating more natural retention capacity of the Chao Pharaya and higher draw down dams down stream. So I have practically shifted that 3 billion cubic meters to the downstream, preserving equal total volume of 10 billion cubic meter of flood retention capacity as yours. By doing so I have balanced up the flood risk all the way along the Chao Pharaya rather than relying too heavily on those two dams in the north. If only I were you.

[chrisinth]

Just a quick update from post #26:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/583387-sukhothai-business-district-flooded/page__st__25#entry5654093

Looked at the river Nan this morning in Phitsanulok on the way to the office, and the water level is up by a minimum of 2 meters (this is a guesstimate, could be more) to what it was at 17:30 last night. That is a big increase in water volume overnight.

This isn't scare-mongery, just an update. For information, during the floods last year, the river at this point increased by 8-9 metres.

[webfact]

Update:

Sukhothai flood worsens

SUKHOTHAI, Sept 11 – Floodwaters in the provincial seat of northern Thailand’s Sukhothai province continues to rise as the authorities keep working to fill gaps in flood barriers to slow down the water flowing into the city from the Yom River.

Several agencies joined forces to place one tonne rock and sand bags to reinforce the prevention embankment which was eroded by floodwater leaving a 10 metre gap.

Local authorities are gearing up to pump floodwater out of the provincial seat as the flood level has risen to 1.30 metres.

The local authorities are using boats to help affected people, and an evacuation center has been set up at the Institute of Physical Education Sukhothai Campus.

In Phetchabun, flooding claimed one life after a man drowned as he was checking the floodwater level in front of his house. Rescue workers spent an hour searching for his body.

The Ping River overflowed its banks to flood nine communities in the Lomsak municipality in Phetchabun.

About 1,000 households have been affected and the main roads linking villages were under half a metre of water, forcing villagers to travel by boat. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-09-11

[robblok]

Flood worsen while the government says its not a problem. Seems they do the same thing as last year deny any problems until it is too late and the people can't help themselves. This government really does hate bad news and tries to downplay it. Its a sham.

I got flooded last year and i took no precautions because the government said it would be ok (i was one of the first hit upper BKK so i did not know what was coming) Good information is a must even if it reflects badly on the government.

[webfact]

Plodprasop apologizes to Sukhothai residents for unpreventable flood

BANGKOK, 11 September 2012 (NNT) - Chairman of the Water and Flood Management Committee Plodprasop Suraswadi has apologized to Sukhothai residents who have been facing rapid flooding, saying the incident was unpreventable.

Mr Plodprasop said to the people of Sukhothai he was sorry about the flood, adding that it was inevitable. He expected the water level to decrease within two days. The authority has shut down a sluice gate to reduce the water level before repairing a damaged Yom River dyke.

The chairman is confident the water released from Sukhothai will not affect areas in Nakhon Sawan, saying the Chao Phraya River can take up more water. He also insisted that there will be no major flooding, citing this year's precipitation is 20% less than last year’s.

Mr Plodprasop rejected claims that flooding in Ayutthaya resulted from the government’s water release test in Bangkok, saying the farmers wanted to keep water for farm use; besides, Wang Noi District, where flood happened, is upstream of the sluice gates on the Rapeepat Canal.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has instructed officials to inspect all dams for leakages to prevent damage from overflowing water.

-- NNT 2012-09-11

[jimbeam1]

From the OP: a flood prevention expert blamed the flood on a deteriorating wall, and not the flood management system.

Well, I'm no expert, thank the powers that be, but it seems to me that checking existing walls should be part of the flood management system. I reckon it passes the "reasonable man" test...although truth be told, I've never heard of that being applied here in Thailand.

Ah but that comes under a completely different section...... It's called Maintenance?

jb1

[whybother]

Plodprasop apologizes to Sukhothai residents for unpreventable flood

<---> Unpreventable??? There was a <---> hole in the <---> flood barrier. How <----> easy would it have been to <---> complete the <---> barrier before the <---> floods. <---->wit.

[drdoom6996]

I thought there would be no flooding this year, does this count as a broken promise.

I think when I read this idiotic comment one more time I will throw myself to the crocodiles.

I dont think crocodiles like tough, bitter, ropey old meat

+1

[drdoom6996]

Flood worsen while the government says its not a problem. Seems they do the same thing as last year deny any problems until it is too late and the people can't help themselves. This government really does hate bad news and tries to downplay it. Its a sham.

I got flooded last year and i took no precautions because the government said it would be ok (i was one of the first hit upper BKK so i did not know what was coming) Good information is a must even if it reflects badly on the government.

More white lies to ensure the public stability. One day the public will question the governments stability. Not soon enough, but one day.

[Pimay1]

PM Yingluck will make a field trip to check the water situation on Thursday but had not yet decided which area she would visit, he said.

Yet another photo opp so it will appear she is actually doing something.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Royon Jitrdorn, member of the Water and Flood Resources Management Committee, said that Sukhothai, 440km north of Bangkok, is capable of taking flood water at 800 cubic metres/second and the latest water level reading was one metre lower than the anti-flood dyke.

The anti-flood barrier is too old, he said, and water flowed under it into the provincial seat. He described it as a “local problem,” and not a water management failure.

When will these 'experts' realise to play the blame game at the subsequent debrief when everything is fixed and until then to all use their 'expertise' to provide effective solutions to the problem and relief to those affected.

After their bank accounts have swelled enough to provide for a comfortable pension in retirement!!!

[MAN2SIN2BKK]

A torrential rainstorm has just passed over the Pichit province, the Nan & Yom rivers are swelling and no doubt the Ping too. That water will make its way down to Bangkok via Nakhon Sawan over the next week.

One can only hope that water expert Plodprasop and his team have done their sums and the klongs and drainage facilities down further south are all working as efficiently as possible.

Well they missed the dredging of Rangsit Khlong 2, it's still a shithole there

[SICHONSTEVE]

"Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra ordered the governor of Sukhothai and disaster relief officials to be proactive, especially in flood-hit areas".

A tad too late for this methinks- unless being reactively proactive counts!!!

[webfact]

INUNDATION

Plodprasob apologies to Sukhothai residents, as floodwaters stabilise

Sukhothai//Photo : Pongphon Sarnsamak

SUKHOTHAI: -- Flood management chairman Plodprasob Suraswadi on Tuesday apologised to Sukhothai residents affected by the floods, saying he was unaware of the cracks under a cement barrier, which allowed water to flow into the town.

Plodprasob, chairman of the Water and Flood Management Commission, said that the flooding in Sukhothai's municipal area is now stable and the inundation is expected to die down within a couple of days.

Floodwaters in the province continued to rise Monday night as the provincial authorities kept working to fill gaps in flood barriers and slow down the water flowing into the city from the Yom River.

Several agencies joined forces to place onetonne rock and sand bags to reinforce the prevention embankment, which was eroded by floodwaters leaving a 10 metre gap.

Local authorities are gearing up to pump floodwater out of the provincial seat as the flood level has risen to 1.30 metres.

The local authorities are using boats to help affected people, and an evacuation centre has been set up at the Institute of Physical Education Sukhothai Campus.

Plodprasob said the water seeped through cracks at the bottom of the barriers, which were built in 2001.

He dismissed reports that the flood in the province was the result of the government's water drainage test conducted last week, saying the sluice at Rapeepat Canal was closed at the time and it was not possible that the water could run up north back to Ayutthaya.

In Phetchabun, flooding claimed one life, when a man drowned as he was checking the floodwater level in front of his house. Rescue workers spent an hour searching for his body.

The Ping River overflowed its banks to flood nine communities in the province's Lom Sak municipality.

About 1,000 households have been affected and the main roads linking villages are under half a metre of water, forcing villagers to travel by boat.

-- The Nation 2012-09-11

[SICHONSTEVE]

A torrential rainstorm has just passed over the Pichit province, the Nan & Yom rivers are swelling and no doubt the Ping too. That water will make its way down to Bangkok via Nakhon Sawan over the next week.

One can only hope that water expert Plodprasop and his team have done their sums and the klongs and drainage facilities down further south are all working as efficiently as possible.

Well they missed the dredging of Rangsit Khlong 2, it's still a shithole there

Must have too many of those 'horrible' Democrats residing in the vicinity!!!!

[saltandpepper]

Plodprasop apologizes to Sukhothai residents for unpreventable flood

<---> Unpreventable??? There was a <---> hole in the <---> flood barrier. How <----> easy would it have been to <---> complete the <---> barrier before the <---> floods. <---->wit.

Why, o why apologize if it were unpreventable? A clear explanation would have sufficed......But it is easier to apologize while showing a sorry baby face...

[saltandpepper]

"Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra ordered the governor of Sukhothai and disaster relief officials to be proactive, especially in flood-hit areas".

A tad too late for this methinks- unless being reactively proactive counts!!!

Someone can please provide her with a dictionary so she can check what does "proactive" mean ?

[phiphidon]

A quick forum search reveals:

http://www.thaivisa.... no more floods

It's easy, just try it.

What's even easier is applying english comprehension skills to what she did say. She did say this

The prime minister has assured the public that the government will not allow the repeat of last year’s flood crisis in 2012.

http://www.thaivisa.... no more floods

Unfortunately the NNBT headline says that Yingluck promises no severe flooding which is not the same thing. Also the NNBT report is shortened and doesn't include all of what she said at the news conference. The Chiang Mai Mail gives a fuller account without the attention seeking headline:

BANGKOK, June 14 - Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on Thursday that she is satisfied with the overall national water management plan and is confident that it will be completed on schedule.

The prime minister asserted her government has operated at its full capacity for efficient water management plan but could not guarantee that there will be no flooding as the likely amount of water is still unclear.

Ms Yingluck reaffirmed, however, that this year's flooding will not be as severe as last year's, while admitting that she is concerned that people living along canals and rivers might be affected as water spills over the banks.

http://www.chiangmai...ews_June3.shtml

So can we finally end this "But Yingluck said they'll be no flooding" schoolboy accusation.

Think about it for a nanosecond, no matter what you think of her, do you really expect someone like that, in the public eye at a press conference, is going to announce after last years events that she guarantees no more flooding this year?

If you believe that you really deserve to be wallowing in the shallow end of the gene pool.

[scotbeve]

Finally!!!!! A comment with some modicum of common sense!!!

[Thai at Heart]

saying he was unaware of the cracks under a cement barrier

The authority has shut down a sluice gate to reduce the water level before repairing a damaged Yom River dyke.

has instructed officials to inspect all dams for leakages to prevent damage from overflowing water.

Got their finger on the pulse then...........................

The most worrying statement though..

He also insisted that there will be no major flooding, citing this year's precipitation is 20% less than last year’s.

As far as I remember, last year was 50% above average for a very long period of time, so 20% less than year, is still a long way above average. This may still be a very bad year.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Can anyone spot the 'couple of jokers' in the pack on this thread!!!

[Soutpeel]

From the OP: a flood prevention expert blamed the flood on a deteriorating wall, and not the flood management system.

Well, I'm no expert, thank the powers that be, but it seems to me that checking existing walls should be part of the flood management system. I reckon it passes the "reasonable man" test...although truth be told, I've never heard of that being applied here in Thailand.

Interestingly enough...per this news item, not 3 months ago..!!!

Posted 2012-06-13 10:37:53

PM Yingluck also stated that government assistance has been promptly delivered to those in need in flooded Sukhothai through the provincial governor while the damaged sluice gate has been repaired and the inspection has been performed at all levees.

-- NNT 2012-06-13

Little white lies again....me thinks

[indyuk]

According to the governments plan It will take five years to complete the upgrading of the existing defenses and the addition of Hi Grade Defenses to High Value asset areas such as industrial parks and high risk risk towns and villages. It is inevitable as the project advances some existing defenses will fail as the transference of hydraulic pressure profiles are redistributed by the effect of new flood defense works. All everyone has to do is to keep faith with the overall objective and to trust that the end result will have enduring integrity. Meanwhile carefully collected data of all events will enable the water management engineers to update their overall design to include all weaknesses discovered in older water management works. Personally I am confident that the plan will provide an integrated water management system protecting all of Thailand. However Thailand will always be vulnerable to flash floods and extreme run off events. Thailand's water management engineers will need to develop separate safety and management procedures for such events.

[Soutpeel]

According to the governments plan It will take five years to complete the upgrading of the existing defenses and the addition of Hi Grade Defenses to High Value asset areas such as industrial parks and high risk risk towns and villages. It is inevitable as the project advances some existing defenses will fail as the transference of hydraulic pressure profiles are redistributed by the effect of new flood defense works. All everyone has to do is to keep faith with the overall objective and to trust that the end result will have enduring integrity. Meanwhile carefully collected data of all events will enable the water management engineers to update their overall design to include all weaknesses discovered in older water management works. Personally I am confident that the plan will provide an integrated water management system protecting all of Thailand. However Thailand will always be vulnerable to flash floods and extreme run off events. Thailand's water management engineers will need to develop separate safety and management procedures for such events.

Suppose there is only response to this post... ...

[SICHONSTEVE]

According to the governments plan It will take five years to complete the upgrading of the existing defenses and the addition of Hi Grade Defenses to High Value asset areas such as industrial parks and high risk risk towns and villages. It is inevitable as the project advances some existing defenses will fail as the transference of hydraulic pressure profiles are redistributed by the effect of new flood defense works. All everyone has to do is to keep faith with the overall objective and to trust that the end result will have enduring integrity. Meanwhile carefully collected data of all events will enable the water management engineers to update their overall design to include all weaknesses discovered in older water management works. Personally I am confident that the plan will provide an integrated water management system protecting all of Thailand. However Thailand will always be vulnerable to flash floods and extreme run off events. Thailand's water management engineers will need to develop separate safety and management procedures for such events.

Suppose there is only response to this post... ...

I actually thought they had used Google translate - however, I concluded that he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about and has mastered gobbledigook!!!!

[rubl]

To be fair on the 18th of July, 2012 we had

"The government will be able to inform the public no later than next month about which areas are at risk of being flooded, those that will be safe, and those to be used as catchment areas, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said yesterday."

http://www.thaivisa....ed-pm-yingluck/

In Marchh talking in Tokyo we had

"Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, on a visit to Tokyo, has reassured powerful Japanese investors there will be no repeat of last year's flood fiasco."