Creating A Position In Thailand

[Butterfly]

Typical here is non-speaking staff stealing from your cash register or sleeping on the job. I have met enough business owners here to know that this is a "general" problem.

This is the comment of a barfly whose entire experience is based on Thai nightlife busineses - and it might be appropraite to such businesses. "Cash register"? Are you smoking crack? What do you suppose the percentage is of foreign business start-ups outside the sex tourism sector that employ a "cash register." Including hotels, dive shops, intenet cafes, and similar - maybe 5%. I cannot recall of even one business that my company has helped set up that had a cash register.

Having staff that goof off or steal from business is a direct reflection on defective leadership at the top. Every Thai worker I have works without significant supervision. They don't work for "me" - they work for "the company" - and they understand that it is THEIR company - and the better the company does, the better they do.

oh pleeaassee !!! stop drinking the Kool Aid. I am not meeting business owners in bars or basing my judgement on bar owners stories. If I was, the picture would be much more bleak, as stealing, backstabbing, and deceiving is the rule of the game in that industry. I don't consider running a bar or a small restaurant a business. It's a profitable hobby for some and that's about it.

The "cash register" was a picture, I thought you would have got it, but apparently not

Explain me how your leadership can be defective when someone you trust has been stealing in your back ? apart from becoming a complete totalitarian, how would a style in leadership prevent "dishonnesty" from happening. I will be very much interested in your theory here

Edited February 7, 2006 by Butterfly

[solo siam]

Also looking at the OP's question, How easy is it to set-up any sort of business in Thailand.

I personally often have to sign over 200+ pieces of paper (its either that or give a Thai power of attorney), even when they've already been signed.

Signing a lease, opening a Bank account, getting a tax ID, expatriating profits, most of which the documents are in Thai, so need to be translated -

Cmon, We are talking about a country where there is no rule of law, you cant properly own property or even the company you've started, they pay foreigners less interest on their bank accounts etc....

As a manager could never just fly over here to check on the employees work, you would need a work-permit.

[Indo-Siam]

The hardcore malcontents here that proclaim persistently that Thailand is an impossible place in which to do business remind of a story I was told in a sales training course long ago. It went something like:

Back in the early 20th Century, a shoe manufacturing company was trying to decide which of two junior sales managers had the best potential for advancement. So they sent the two off to a remote part of Africa, each carrying a case of sample shoes, to see what potential existed for developing business in the target region. After a month, the home office received a wire from the first salesman: SITUATION HERE HOPELESS STOP NO ONE WEARS SHOES STOP AM RETURNING ON NEXT SHIP BACK. The next day, they received a wire from the second salesman OPPORTUNITIES HERE UNLIMITED! STOP EVERYONE'S BAREFOOT STOP SEND MORE SHOES IMMEDIATELY. The second salesman went on to take over the company and carry it to great profitability

A situation is what you make of it.

Every time ten or twenty whiners moan and complain about something on this board, all I can think of is: "Man, this shortfall in ____ probably represents a good business opportunity for someone to step in and fill a void".

But - that's not how most of the embittered souls here act. They only seem to be able to come up with "Gee, let's open another beer bar - we can probably make a lot of money doing that."

I've pretty much expressed just about everyhting I can think of to say, so I will now leave it to the "n'aer do wells" to have the last word, as they wallow around it their misery over how it is impossible to do business in Thailand.

No one speaks English. The best communications you can get in Bangkok are two tin cans connected by a piece of string. Thais are all blook-sucking harpies who exist only to steal from their employers - and while they are stealing is the only time they aren't asleep on the job. The arithmetic (not algebra, not calculus) required to compute withholding tax in Thailand is beyond the capabilities of anyone without a PhD in mathematics, and a typical day for a foreign businessman in Thailand is spent ladling out company cash to a steady stream of Thai government officials who visit all foreigners daily, to extract the daily bribe.

I feel sorry for the pathetic creatures who live in that dismal alternate universe.

'Bye,

Steve

Indo-Siam

Edited February 7, 2006 by Indo-Siam

[Butterfly]

Re: Bribes

To be honnest you don't have to pay bribes here to run a business. However, this might be different if you run a cafe, a bar or a restaurant, you might have to pay for a "protection" bribe if you choose to. Probably not much. Bribes are not always a bad thing under certain conditions.

I saw one restaurant owner who received the visit of a tax official, probably didn't pay enough taxes. The official asked for a small bribe, the owner refused out of principles. Why ? maybe he was cheating. He had to close down the restaurant and moved out after 20 years in business here. I just think paying the bribe here would have been more convenient than pay the "regular" tax fee or shutdown the entire business.

So the bribes are not necessarily a bad thing for a business as long they are reasonable and "justified" (speeding process for paperwork, tax cheating etc...)

[Butterfly]

No one speaks English. The best communications you can get in Bangkok are two tin cans connected by a piece of string. Thais are all blook-sucking harpies who exist only to steal from their employers - and while they are stealing is the only time they aren't asleep on the job. The arithmetic (not algebra, not calculus) required to compute withholding tax in Thailand is beyond the capabilities of anyone without a PhD in mathematics, and a typical day for a foreign businessman in Thailand is spent ladling out company cash to a steady stream of Thai government officials who visit all foreigners daily, to extract the daily bribe.

For a business consultant, you certainly think in "absolute", not a character trait you would expect from someone as experienced as you are. Nobody said it was absolutely "impossible", just that it was fairly "difficult". Thailand has pros and cons like everywhere else, but you keep looking at this country through your rose tainted glasses. You probably don't like what we are saying, but that's about all. Claiming leadership issues when someone steal in your back, is fairly "naive" to say the least. And quoting your "sales training" course just rose a red flag about you that I probably missed before.

[solo siam]

The hardcore malcontents here that proclaim persistently that Thailand is an impossible place in which to do business remind of a story I was told in a sales training course long ago. It went something like:

Back in the early 20th Century, a shoe manufacturing company was trying to decide which of two junior sales managers had the best potential for advancement. So they sent the two off to a remote part of Africa, each carrying a case of sample shoes, to see what potential existed for developing business in the target region. After a month, the home office received a wire from the first salesman: SITUATION HERE HOPELESS STOP NO ONE WEARS SHOES STOP AM RETURNING ON NEXT SHIP BACK. The next day, they received a wire from the second salesman OPPORTUNITIES HERE UNLIMITED! STOP EVERYONE'S BAREFOOT STOP SEND MORE SHOES IMMEDIATELY. The second salesman went on to take over the company and carry it to great profitability

A situation is what you make of it.

Every time ten or twenty whiners moan and complain about something on this board, all I can think of is: "Man, this shortfall in ____ probably represents a good business opportunity for someone to step in and fill a void".

But - that's not how most of the embittered souls here act. They only seem to be able to come up with "Gee, let's open another beer bar - we can probably make a lot of money doing that."

I've pretty much expressed just about everyhting I can think of to say, so I will now leave it to the "n'aer do wells" to have the last word, as they wallow around it their misery over how it is impossible to do business in Thailand.

No one speaks English. The best communications you can get in Bangkok are two tin cans connected by a piece of string. Thais are all blook-sucking harpies who exist only to steal from their employers - and while they are stealing is the only time they aren't asleep on the job. The arithmetic (not algebra, not calculus) required to compute withholding tax in Thailand is beyond the capabilities of anyone without a PhD in mathematics, and a typical day for a foreign businessman in Thailand is spent ladling out company cash to a steady stream of Thai government officials who visit all foreigners daily, to extract the daily bribe.

I feel sorry for the pathetic creatures who live in that dismal alternate universe.

'Bye,

Steve

Indo-Siam

Amazing how someone can claim to be so positive and yet be so judgemental at the same time. Lets get this straight, I have a successful business here in Thailand - It is a LOT more work than it would be to do something similar in HK, Singapore etc... I live here because I like to be near the beaches and I have a Thai wife and child.

There are many types of withholding tax that have to be paid at source, its a legal requirement to pay these on services but when you are billed people generally dont reference them, So you have to go through every invoice, work out what is considered a service and of what type and apply the relevant withholding tax to that part of the invoice when paying that bill, By rights you should also give them a withholding tax receipt upon payment. This then has to be paid and documented to the tax department within 7 days of the end of the month or else penalties apply.

VAT calculations are also done on a monthly basis, making it difficult to actually claim for most things.

I have signed more documents here in Thailand in the last year than in the rest of my life, including stints in many other countries as an expat with a business, work permit etc...

Every official document is in Thai, so either has to be translated fully before you sign it or you have to trust a Thai partner/company implicitly. I have signed documents that I have already signed up to four times previously.

I'm not saying its impossible, or will never work - I'm telling the truth in saying its more difficult than in most other countries on the list, with perhaps the exception of China.

Lets face it Steve, if it was as easy and plain sailing as you keep making it out to be, then you would be out of a job. If you think that a third world country is as competetive, transparent and as easy to do business as two of the top 5 free-market developed economies in the world, then its pretty obvious to anyone with any sense who's opinion here is weighted.

[Cassandra]

The hardcore malcontents here that proclaim persistently that Thailand is an impossible place in which to do business remind of a story I was told in a sales training course long ago. It went something like:

Back in the early 20th Century, a shoe manufacturing company was trying to decide which of two junior sales managers had the best potential for advancement. So they sent the two off to a remote part of Africa, each carrying a case of sample shoes, to see what potential existed for developing business in the target region. After a month, the home office received a wire from the first salesman: SITUATION HERE HOPELESS STOP NO ONE WEARS SHOES STOP AM RETURNING ON NEXT SHIP BACK. The next day, they received a wire from the second salesman OPPORTUNITIES HERE UNLIMITED! STOP EVERYONE'S BAREFOOT STOP SEND MORE SHOES IMMEDIATELY. The second salesman went on to take over the company and carry it to great profitability

A situation is what you make of it.

Every time ten or twenty whiners moan and complain about something on this board, all I can think of is: "Man, this shortfall in ____ probably represents a good business opportunity for someone to step in and fill a void".

But - that's not how most of the embittered souls here act. They only seem to be able to come up with "Gee, let's open another beer bar - we can probably make a lot of money doing that."

I've pretty much expressed just about everyhting I can think of to say, so I will now leave it to the "n'aer do wells" to have the last word, as they wallow around it their misery over how it is impossible to do business in Thailand.

No one speaks English. The best communications you can get in Bangkok are two tin cans connected by a piece of string. Thais are all blook-sucking harpies who exist only to steal from their employers - and while they are stealing is the only time they aren't asleep on the job. The arithmetic (not algebra, not calculus) required to compute withholding tax in Thailand is beyond the capabilities of anyone without a PhD in mathematics, and a typical day for a foreign businessman in Thailand is spent ladling out company cash to a steady stream of Thai government officials who visit all foreigners daily, to extract the daily bribe.

I feel sorry for the pathetic creatures who live in that dismal alternate universe.

'Bye,

Steve

Indo-Siam

You are right to emphasise Thailand is a market where business can do well.One only has to look around to see the economic transformation of the country over the last 40 years, and this has been accomplished almost entirely by capitalist animal spirits.The trouble is for small time foreign entrepreneurs is that the odds are against them unless they can operate under the radar screen.Obviously there are some exceptions (eg Distrithai) but there have been amazingly few farang controlled success stories with some critical mass, lets say turnover of $10m plus/net profit $3m plus.The reasons for this have been debated on this forum before.Indo-Siam has a good reputation but let's face it you are on the whole dealing with inexperienced small fry who are looking for some reason to be in Thailand.Nothing wrong with this but the fact you sponsor TV, Stickman etc indicates your market.