The Hotbutton Racism Thread

[Beetlejuice]

Looking at some of the opinions and comments on this thread, it is of no wonder that the Thai Immigration rules are so strict and they are terrified of letting us gain any footholds here. God help the Thais if they did.

We only have to delve into our European history and our attitudes towards the native populations in countries that we have colonised and sadly these old colonial attitudes are still alive and kicking.

Personally, I hope they tighten up the Immigration laws even more, the less that plonk themselves over here with their it`s nothing personal (but) comments, the better.

[Neeranam]

What countries require a retiree to be fluent in the local language? You don't like old guys on one thread and this one you bash Americans? We got a bit of a problem with anybody except yourself eh?

I never said fluent. Are you trying to say that many countries give Citizenship to anyone, let alone retirees, without passing some kind of language aptitude test. I think OZ and NZ it the IELTS, isn't USA the TOEIC? Tell me one country.

What do you mean, I don't like old guys - where did I say that? Sounds like you are over-sensitive to your age.

And I'm not bashing Americans, just saying they're usually not keen to learn foreign languages, unless its Spanish

[barefoot1988]

now i could understand why on your other thread you are asking about laws on insult to thai people. some racist comments must had pissed you pretty bad.

generally just keep chill. the internet board is like these and everywhere, and not only thais are targeted, i see lots of negative comment on american, britian and scottish as well

[Rancid]

People are rascist by nature, it stems from the tribal/group instinct I suppose, obviously some more than others. The other posters are correct in that Thais are just as bad, although no worse either than anywhere else. The term farang doesn't bother me as I am confident in who I am and can't be made to feel in any way inferior to those that may use the term. I note though that it is usually farang and not at least Khun Farang as I see the Chinese and others usually get the honorific.

My kids are half Thai and get a rascist time at school, but if they were back in Oz then they would probably get it from the other direction. Many here I assume have Thai partners and children, so I doubt that we all hate our families and their cultural heritage. There will always be the overt rascist moron though that will get on and spout their rubbish, best just to fire back at them. Try a few polysylabic words though to confuse them.

Why not add in that most here claim to be married to pale skin Thai-Chinese girls as opposed to Isaan girls, the implication being that darker skin implies they are whores. Lets not get into the skin whitening ads.

To submaniac I would suggest if we were all in Egypt (or where ever) it would be the same complaining about them, the stupid taxi driver, the thieving shop owner, the go go girls wearing burkas...but just perhaps he would be joining in as well? And quite frankly on forums back home I am happy to stick it to fellow Aussies as it ourselves usually being discussed, as here the topic is mandated as being Thai you are going to get both positive and negative posts about Thais.

I do think it is good that you have raised this issue, it might make some consider what they say a bit more. Also for those living in tourist areas, they do attract the worst of the population. You have a very different daily life experience and perception of Thais in Chiang Mai than you would in Phuket.

[ishan14]

Freedom comes with responsibility. It does not give license to demean others.

You will certainly get counter argument from US TV members using the freedom of speech justification.

I think this is what the op was talkin about. Targeting a specific race of people and writing BS about them for no random reason. Simple1, you yourself are making good use of free speech, Blaming the US citizens of humiliating/deameaning the other people in the name of "freedom of speech".

[chiangmaikelly]

What countries require a retiree to be fluent in the local language? You don't like old guys on one thread and this one you bash Americans? We got a bit of a problem with anybody except yourself eh?

I never said fluent. Are you trying to say that many countries give Citizenship to anyone, let alone retirees, without passing some kind of language aptitude test. I think OZ and NZ it the IELTS, isn't USA the TOEIC? Tell me one country.

What do you mean, I don't like old guys - where did I say that? Sounds like you are over-sensitive to your age.

And I'm not bashing Americans, just saying they're usually not keen to learn foreign languages, unless its Spanish

Why would you need or want citizenship to retire? You started a thread about old guys complaining and you are saying Americans are substandard to people you know because they don't learn Thai. Tell me what nationality is AIA language school? What year was it started?

Don't worry we are used to it

[bangkokburning]

Yes, I am not a racist - misanthropic, possibly.

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes, I am not a racist - misanthropic, possibly.

Don't forget anti polo.

[GuestHouse]

you are certainly onto something here...

many of these people complaining are basically immigrants to a new country and are living the typical immigrant existence of confusion in a new country.

For many of these people though, the word 'immigrant' or migrant is a dirty word, so they prefer to use the word 'expat' as if somehow that makes them different (queue the 54 predictably boring retorts of how the visa only says 'non-immigrant on front).

But it is the immigrant experience they are getting - warts and all with a fish sauce flavour.

Some time ago I started a thread on this very subject of calling a spade a spade (an expat an immigrant) some interesting responses - but in the end I agree with you expats are immigrants, forget what they visa says, we are allowed in and our stay here is governed by the immigration laws, managed by the immigration police.

[Beetlejuice]

you are certainly onto something here...

many of these people complaining are basically immigrants to a new country and are living the typical immigrant existence of confusion in a new country.

For many of these people though, the word 'immigrant' or migrant is a dirty word, so they prefer to use the word 'expat' as if somehow that makes them different (queue the 54 predictably boring retorts of how the visa only says 'non-immigrant on front).

But it is the immigrant experience they are getting - warts and all with a fish sauce flavour.

Some time ago I started a thread on this very subject of calling a spade a spade (an expat an immigrant) some interesting responses - but in the end I agree with you expats are immigrants, forget what they visa says, we are allowed in and our stay here is governed by the immigration laws, managed by the immigration police.

THE REALITY:

Technically, most farang ex-pats in Thailand are not Immigrants, unless they have been officially given Thai citizenship, for.If we were, we would not be governed by Immigration laws or managed by the immigration police, the same as any other Thai national.

I still hold the passports of my home countries, which I am imposed to keep up to date in order to acquire my annual non-Immigrant visa to stay in Thailand.

The day if and when I become eligible to obtain a Thai ID card, a Thai passport and able to trash my visa in the bin, is when I will declare myself as an immigrant in Thailand.

In the meantime I have no real statutory rights in Thailand and could be told to leave at anytime just on the whim of some high up official who decides it`s time for all the long term glorified tourists to go home. And this is why we need to keep our heads down here and not stir up any trouble.

But, I am more than happy with this sort of arrangement, as I would hate to see the country swamped by too many farangs that have been given any powers or footholds here, for reasons that I mentioned in my previous post.

Those who consider themselves as immigrants are living a pipedream and I hope it stays that way.

[bina]

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by heritable phenotypic characteristics, geographic ancestry, physical appearance, ethnicity, and social status. In the early twentieth century the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype

'

h90 = that is for u. one of many definitions of what constitutes race.

inm jewish. and israeli/american. thats my race, my nation, my genetic makeup including the diseases that are associated with it. and i have white/pink skin. and am buddhist.

sub: again, i say... i think maybe u just have been on thaivisa too long where there is a small amount of people with similar attitudes. on the internet, behind the anonomity of the keyboard, expats like to mouth off, whinge, whine, and complain because, frankly, sometimes is just difficult to be in someone elses culture when u are sick, down, having problems, or under stress. it happens to me. it happens ot my ex pat anglo (mostly) friends. (here in israel.) ; and i see it with my husband who is severely racist towards the very people he has married into , based on the activities of a few more extreme groups (religious mostly, in his case he hates all the keeping kosher, fast days with no work, etc).

we also get the israeli primitive types point of view that thais eat dogs, are godless heathens,dirty, drunkards, blablabla...but they luuv to visit thailand (the islands mostly) for vacations, great food smiley people beautiful girls, cheap shopping.

im quite used to people telling me to get the 'boy'(labourer) to get my bags, etc, not realizing he''s my husband since how could a jewish white girl marry a sh ort dark toothless slanty eyes guy that most people see working in greenhouses with the tomatoes... (they wouldnt know a high class educated thai if they tripped over one.)

ive given up a long time ago correcting people. even on thai visa i have a thick skin... i often dont comment on peoples' remarks cause i think: why bother. if i was speaking with a person face to face, of course iw ould say something. i have here, for arabs, thais, eritreans, whatever. but on a website?! this is not the whole cosmos here. only a tip of a larger scale of things. sort of a little muu baan on the board. large cities are always so much more sophisticated than a little provincial muu baan...

so use the forum for things that u need, and ignore the stuff that u dont need. when training dogs, we calling 'dying out' the bad habit or action: no respons to it means the dog wil eventually stop doing it, cause it gets no response....

besides, dont u just love to pull out the 'im thai' on someone when they start to badmouth thais? and have them pull themselves short on their next comments when they realize that u arent running around in a pakanu waiving a machete and swigging lao kao?

sincerely

bina

[TommoPhysicist]

But as of 2008, that programme is now closed. So I guess I am increasingly right and you inreasingly wrong as those grandfathered (pun intended) get ILR the category does not remain relevant.

The only requirement for citizenship in the UK is to be married to a UK citizen and have 64k in the bank.

I really don't care about what happened in 2008, how is that relevant to anything?

Can't admit that you were wrong eh ....... I have to admit that is impressively Thai, well done you really fit in.

[Sing_Sling]

THE REALITY:

Technically, most farang ex-pats in Thailand are not Immigrants, unless they have been officially given Thai citizenship, for.If we were, we would not be governed by Immigration laws or managed by the immigration police, the same as any other Thai national.

Sorry, you're incorrect, immigrants don't have to carry the citizenship of their 'adopted' country.

[Neeranam]

What countries require a retiree to be fluent in the local language? You don't like old guys on one thread and this one you bash Americans? We got a bit of a problem with anybody except yourself eh?

I never said fluent. Are you trying to say that many countries give Citizenship to anyone, let alone retirees, without passing some kind of language aptitude test. I think OZ and NZ it the IELTS, isn't USA the TOEIC? Tell me one country.

What do you mean, I don't like old guys - where did I say that? Sounds like you are over-sensitive to your age.

And I'm not bashing Americans, just saying they're usually not keen to learn foreign languages, unless its Spanish

Why would you need or want citizenship to retire? You started a thread about old guys complaining and you are saying Americans are substandard to people you know because they don't learn Thai. Tell me what nationality is AIA language school? What year was it started?

Don't worry we are used to it

So retirees should have benefits over workers? Citizenship would stop the need for visas, for one thing.

AIA is primarily an English language school - what;s that got to do with anything?

Not sure how I upset you - I've nothing against Americans, old people or those that can't speak Thai - it's just a bit sad.

Have you thought of all the countries where its easy to get Citizenship like I asked? You are very good at twisting my words.

I see that St Christopher & Nevis is quite easy if you invest $1/4 million, and $35k for yourself and each spouse over 18. India might be easier than Thailand but here its pretty easy.

[KRS1]

Thais are more chill with sabai attitudes, less likely to point out faults in a person and keep it to themselves.

The farangotang however feels the need to plan ahead because the infrastructure back home allows it and in most cases demands it. Which results in the farangotang species to point out fault, shortcomings, and generally what they feel should be changed to accommodate what they think is right...it's almost like an overwhelming force they cannot resist.

Take your pick.

[farang000999]

I don't think farang are immigrants, not by my definition of the word. Immigrants move to a new country and are married to other immigrants and run small businesses in a community made up of those with similar ethnic backgrounds. I guess the Russians sort of have that going on. The rest of us do not. I think expat or perpetual tourist are much better words.

I see no comparison to the lives of immigrants in Western countries and the farang community in Thailand.

Most of us in Thailand can barely speak the language and cant get anything done at all if our gf or wife is not leading us around like a child.

there is no farang community, just tourist areas where thais run businesses directed at farang.

assimilation for the average farang is very low.

[endure]

One of the reasons I wrote this post is because of what happened. You see, one of the people who read the posts that I didn't like was theblether, who is British. He was one of the people (and was not the only one) I saw that actually took a stand and disaproved of the comments. Then I went off and insulted his people in a thread. But he actually read the comments and knew what was being said and why I was getting upset. He actually came onto the thread and defended me after I just insulted his country. Then I felt terrible, because I had not jabbed the people making these comments, but I also realized that there were a whole lot of other British on this board that have been nothing but kind, wonderful people that I just insulted too.

We (the British) have our share of <deleted> too. Best just to ignore them. That's how we deal with them.

[MAJIC]

But as of 2008, that programme is now closed. So I guess I am increasingly right and you inreasingly wrong as those grandfathered (pun intended) get ILR the category does not remain relevant.

The only requirement for citizenship in the UK is to be married to a UK citizen and have 64k in the bank.

I really don't care about what happened in 2008, how is that relevant to anything?

Can't admit that you were wrong eh ....... I have to admit that is impressively Thai, well done you really fit in.

Is the 64k Baht or GBP,or where did you learn it was even necessary at all?

[manarak]

Submaniac, I think there is no way to make this kind of comments disappear.

Don't forget approx. 50% of people have below average intelligence.

[HeavyDrinker]

I've never read so much twaddle in all my days, from the ridiculous OP through the replies.

I just think most of you are just unhappy people for whom a degree of re-evaluation is needed.

[mrtoad]

But as of 2008, that programme is now closed. So I guess I am increasingly right and you inreasingly wrong as those grandfathered (pun intended) get ILR the category does not remain relevant.

The only requirement for citizenship in the UK is to be married to a UK citizen and have 64k in the bank.

I really don't care about what happened in 2008, how is that relevant to anything?

Can't admit that you were wrong eh ....... I have to admit that is impressively Thai, well done you really fit in.

Is the 64k Baht or GBP,or where did you learn it was even necessary at all?

In a bar, biggest pile of nonsense I have heard on visa regs into the UK

[Rob8891]

@Beetlejuice

THE REALITY:

Technically, most farang ex-pats in Thailand are not Immigrants, unless they have been officially given Thai citizenship, for.If we were, we would not be governed by Immigration laws or managed by the immigration police, the same as any other Thai national.

I still hold the passports of my home countries, which I am imposed to keep up to date in order to acquire my annual non-Immigrant visa to stay in Thailand.

Those who consider themselves as immigrants are living a pipedream and I hope it stays that way.

You start your response with "THE REALITY", but then you go on to say "Technically......." which suggests that your case is about to be flawed......No surprises here.

Despite what it says on the stamp in your passport, the REAL REALITY is ex-pats, ARE immigrants. The word 'immigrant' has been defined as....a person who comes to a country usually to take up long-term or permanent residence. Added to that, any one who moves from their home country to tak up work in another country is a migrant. Therefore, if you have entered Thailand to work, you are an immigrant. If you have entered Thailand to retire there long-term, you are an immigrant. If you are a tourist, you not an immigrant, but judging by your comments about your visa, you are probably not in that category.

[Rob8891]

@ carmine

You said...

If you are genuine why not make a second such post outlining some of the xenophobic posts towards foreigners by thais that you MUST HAVE HEARD and that will go some way to justifying your initial post. Well....

You are deliberatly setting the OP up here.... Come on, be realistic... what percentage of TV membership is thai? If there are the posts to which you allude, why don't YOU trawl through TV and find the evidence to back up your point?

Sure, the OP has made a few bad posts in the past, when he has lost his rag, but what IS irrefutable is the overwhelming proportion of xenophobic posts from some expats inTV. It is irrelevant where any racist posts come from, because there is NO justification for anyone to behave in such a disrespectful manner to another human being, irrespective of whether it has originated from a thai or a ex-pat. To date, I have been called a "thai hugger" in another TV thread, and in the real world, I have been spat at and called a n_gger-lover..... is that going to change my views? No, not one bit. It just confirmed that staying silent when there is injustice is not acceptable, since this can be interpreted as tacit approval.

The OP made a valid point: it takes guts to stand up against the barrage he has received, before and since he started this thread. topt suggested he should be "a little less thin-skinned"....Why the hell should he? he is not at fault, except when he has snapped and then been guilty of the same vitriolic posts as the xenophobes in here. I cannot understand why, if the posters are living voluntarily in Thailand, why anyone would keep posting such stuff. I agree, it is not perfect here. Yes there are things that drive us all crazy. We are immigrants, it is not our country and we cannot behave as if it is. If things get too much for us, then we can probably get out and go somewhere else for our own sanity Why would any right-thinking person choose to stay in a country where they apparently see the people as second-rate, seemingly hate they system, and can only find some form of perverted pleasure in denigrating everything thai?... I suspect some people will be equally unhappy wherever they go... IMO, they should look inwards, not outwards for answers to this.

There are many things that attracted us to Thailand originally. Perhaps we should try harder to concentrate on these, and stop being so negative. OK, we all need to let off steam now and again, but that does not mean we should use sweeping generalisations, stereotypes, and phraseology that would, in all probability, cause us to fall foul of the laws in our own lands (not to mention simple common decency towards other human beings).

To the folks who have reacted negatively to the OP's main objections.... Imagine yourselves on the receiving end of the sort of treatment to which he has quite rightly objected. Would you honestly like that? I am not suggesting that you change your beliefs (although that would help)... but more that you keep the school playground bullying and xenophobia out of TV.

[buhr]

Isn't expat, immigrant, non-imm, retired, speak Thai/don't, newbie kind of generalising as well? Point being everyone is as bad as each other?

(wow first post out the way)

[cdnvic]

Enough about visas. The topic is racism.

[smokie36]

Isn't expat, immigrant, non-imm, retired, speak Thai/don't, newbie kind of generalising as well? Point being everyone is as bad as each other?

(wow first post out the way)

More in the sense of all generalising in the same way?

to the forum by the way!

[Shotime]

There is one word I really dislike-farang, falang, whatever. I find it offensive and racist. The OP keeps using it, and calls visitors, immigrants, guests, whatever throughout his post. I hear children use it aloud when they see a foreigner. It's something they learned from their parents. It's racist, and not meant as an identifier. The OP should look in his own backyard before he starts a discussion about falangs being racist. Let's call a Thai a Thai.

[samran]

But as of 2008, that programme is now closed. So I guess I am increasingly right and you inreasingly wrong as those grandfathered (pun intended) get ILR the category does not remain relevant.

The only requirement for citizenship in the UK is to be married to a UK citizen and have 64k in the bank.

I really don't care about what happened in 2008, how is that relevant to anything?

Can't admit that you were wrong eh ....... I have to admit that is impressively Thai, well done you really fit in.

No, what you have written is a pile of twaddle. But even in talking about visas to the UK, your last line simply goes of to prove the OPs point about generalisations.

Maybe you should change your Nic to tommoeinstien.

[notmyself]

I can understnad the OP's point but don't see where racism comes in.

[David006]

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by heritable phenotypic characteristics, geographic ancestry, physical appearance, ethnicity, and social status. In the early twentieth century the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype

'

h90 = that is for u. one of many definitions of what constitutes race.

inm jewish. and israeli/american. thats my race, my nation, my genetic makeup including the diseases that are associated with it. and i have white/pink skin. and am buddhist.

sub: again, i say... i think maybe u just have been on thaivisa too long where there is a small amount of people with similar attitudes. on the internet, behind the anonomity of the keyboard, expats like to mouth off, whinge, whine, and complain because, frankly, sometimes is just difficult to be in someone elses culture when u are sick, down, having problems, or under stress. it happens to me. it happens ot my ex pat anglo (mostly) friends. (here in israel.) ; and i see it with my husband who is severely racist towards the very people he has married into , based on the activities of a few more extreme groups (religious mostly, in his case he hates all the keeping kosher, fast days with no work, etc).

we also get the israeli primitive types point of view that thais eat dogs, are godless heathens,dirty, drunkards, blablabla...but they luuv to visit thailand (the islands mostly) for vacations, great food smiley people beautiful girls, cheap shopping.

im quite used to people telling me to get the 'boy'(labourer) to get my bags, etc, not realizing he''s my husband since how could a jewish white girl marry a sh ort dark toothless slanty eyes guy that most people see working in greenhouses with the tomatoes... (they wouldnt know a high class educated thai if they tripped over one.)

ive given up a long time ago correcting people. even on thai visa i have a thick skin... i often dont comment on peoples' remarks cause i think: why bother. if i was speaking with a person face to face, of course iw ould say something. i have here, for arabs, thais, eritreans, whatever. but on a website?! this is not the whole cosmos here. only a tip of a larger scale of things. sort of a little muu baan on the board. large cities are always so much more sophisticated than a little provincial muu baan...

so use the forum for things that u need, and ignore the stuff that u dont need. when training dogs, we calling 'dying out' the bad habit or action: no respons to it means the dog wil eventually stop doing it, cause it gets no response....

besides, dont u just love to pull out the 'im thai' on someone when they start to badmouth thais? and have them pull themselves short on their next comments when they realize that u arent running around in a pakanu waiving a machete and swigging lao kao?

sincerely

bina

beautiful post bina ....a reality check indeed..says it all...

.....if the truth be known I think 99.9 percent of the human race comes under the catch all of racist or discriminatory in some form..

.... if it wasn't for all those dam_n immigrants, POMES and fat people.......taking our women, jobs etc....why they don't all just......