The Hotbutton Racism Thread

[Berkshire]

There is one word I really dislike-farang, falang, whatever. I find it offensive and racist. The OP keeps using it, and calls visitors, immigrants, guests, whatever throughout his post. I hear children use it aloud when they see a foreigner. It's something they learned from their parents. It's racist, and not meant as an identifier. The OP should look in his own backyard before he starts a discussion about falangs being racist. Let's call a Thai a Thai.

Farang is not an offensive word. You are barking up the wrong tree. If that is your entire argument, then you have no argument.

Edited September 15, 2012 by cdnvic
removed insult

[Ulysses G.]

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

[chiangmaikelly]

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

[chiangmaikelly]

What countries require a retiree to be fluent in the local language? You don't like old guys on one thread and this one you bash Americans? We got a bit of a problem with anybody except yourself eh?

I never said fluent. Are you trying to say that many countries give Citizenship to anyone, let alone retirees, without passing some kind of language aptitude test. I think OZ and NZ it the IELTS, isn't USA the TOEIC? Tell me one country.

What do you mean, I don't like old guys - where did I say that? Sounds like you are over-sensitive to your age.

And I'm not bashing Americans, just saying they're usually not keen to learn foreign languages, unless its Spanish

Why would you need or want citizenship to retire? You started a thread about old guys complaining and you are saying Americans are substandard to people you know because they don't learn Thai. Tell me what nationality is AIA language school? What year was it started?

Don't worry we are used to it

So retirees should have benefits over workers? Citizenship would stop the need for visas, for one thing.

AIA is primarily an English language school - what;s that got to do with anything?

Not sure how I upset you - I've nothing against Americans, old people or those that can't speak Thai - it's just a bit sad.

Have you thought of all the countries where its easy to get Citizenship like I asked? You are very good at twisting my words.

I see that St Christopher & Nevis is quite easy if you invest $1/4 million, and $35k for yourself and each spouse over 18. India might be easier than Thailand but here its pretty easy.

When you say something like, "I've nothing against Americans, old people or those that can't speak Thai - it's just a bit sad." that you can't possibly back up, most Americans can't speak Thai, and go on to call them sad, that is racism. If I said, most white people can't jump and I find that sad, would you think I was a nut case?

I am an American; I know 5 other Americans and we all speak Thai. I know 3 people from the UK and they can't speak Thai. Would I say, based on that, that people from the UK can't speak Thai? No, nor would I say they were sad. If you find some documentaton of Americans living in Thailand as opposed to other groups speaking less Thai then you can make a statement about it. Until then it just sounds bigoted and a product of your mind.

If I said A1A I'm sorry I meant to say AUA an Americican school founded in the 1970's to teach Thai. It is where I learned Thai.

Edited September 15, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[GuestHouse]

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

There you go you see - The proof that the term "Farang" is not a racist term hangs on an understanding of Thailand and Thai people.

Actually it does not.

The term "Farang" is not in and of itself a racist term - Just like the term "Old" is not an 'agist' term.

Both terms are neutral but can very simply be constructed into offensive (Racists or Agist) language.

Both terms are frequently used in offensive context, "Farang" in racist context and 'Old' in agist context. ( I note your own sensitivity to the latter).

Nor, as a point of note, is Thai language or Thai culture the point of reference when deciding if the use of the term Farang is racist. Just as it is was not the common language usage of the British towards immigrants that determined if that language was racist.

It is the attitudes embedded in the language usage, its context which decides if the usage is racist.

Unless of course you are arguing that a Thai speaker has never used the term 'Farang' to construct a racist comment and express a racist point of view?

Edited September 15, 2012 by GuestHouse

[geriatrickid]

ain't too many countries which take retirees on in the first place, let a lone letting them stay with only $26K stuck in the bank with no other checks (eg police check, bond for medical costs etc). Fewer still offer the path to any form of PR or citizenship to people who aren't there in a productive capacity. If you can name a country which does this, let me know.

And only a few of the people I know have a cushy expat job. The rest (getting back to the OP's point) figure out how the place works, and basically get on with it. No whingie poo's from them like the dear souls we see on this board.

In the west, it is called "family reunification" or "family sponsorship". Millions of immigrants have entered western countries with absolutley no income or assets, and/or that were elderly. Western countries have accepted refugees, something which Thailand is averse to. Even though foreign governments and the UN will cover the cost of Burmese refugees or even Rohingyas, these people are rarely given refuge and when they are, they are put into de facto prison camps.

The $26K threshold is still much more than than the average Thai has. As such it must be considered in a relative context. These people purchase Thai goods and services and provide employment even if it for a maid to clean a room, or a waitress to serve a meal.

Who's fault is it that Thailand doesn't undertake police checks or a proper medical exam? It is not the foreigner's fault if Thais don't care.

Yes, I know there is inherent prejudice voiced against some Thais , but I am aslo fully aware of the motives for it. Not all of these people are ignorant bigots. A great many have indeed fallen prey to the type of people that exploit the weak, or the trusting, or the elderly or the kind hearted. Some of the comments that on their own can be considered hateful, are accurate when taken in the context of what some of the victims have suffered. How can anyone be surprised by the angry sentiments expressed by some people when the environment is one of endemic corruption and injustice? When a consumer feels he/she has been ripped off, that consumer reacts angrily.

There is no excuse to spread hate and to tar everyyone as "bad", but I do understand why some foreigners feel that way. They have been hurt, or abused or betrayed. The typical comment on TVF is bah, move on, grow a pair, find a new gik etc., etc. Those words only exacerbate the pain.

[GuestHouse]

Understanding Thai language and culture does of course play a part - from this understanding we know that the term "Farang" is a 'racial' term, it is used to delineate and identify a racial difference - The adaptation from a 'racial' term to a 'racist' term is simple context.

[TommoPhysicist]

But as of 2008, that programme is now closed. So I guess I am increasingly right and you inreasingly wrong as those grandfathered (pun intended) get ILR the category does not remain relevant.

The only requirement for citizenship in the UK is to be married to a UK citizen and have 64k in the bank.

I really don't care about what happened in 2008, how is that relevant to anything?

Can't admit that you were wrong eh ....... I have to admit that is impressively Thai, well done you really fit in.

Is the 64k Baht or GBP,or where did you learn it was even necessary at all?

UKP ...... there's a whole thread on the new spouse immigration rules for UK

64kUKP in the bank, or 18kUKP a year income, or combination where wages equals 2.5x savings.

[draftvader]

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

Anti-British too. Yes, I am happy that you removed your signature, but you still felt that, until it was picked up on, it was fine to display. It will take me a long time to forget your anti-British sentiment. I also wish you could just accept it was wrong, learn from it and walk away quietly, but look at your signature now. I don't think you should let an educated, 38 year old, British guy that you don't actually know affect you so greatly. That is what is going on with the comments that are upsetting you. Mr TV-poster is upset by 1 individual and reacts to JUST that person and tars a nation.

Yes, there are some VERY polarised opinions on ThaiVisa, however there are also some very good reasons to feel like this sometimes. You and I will be treated differently throughout our "Thailand experience". My positives and negatives will be overly exaggerated due to me being obviously foreign. As I tell visiting friends how to avoid all the unnecessary, and rude, scams I also remind them that the average Thai person has a HUGE heart and is quite willing to share it with them (along with their meal, home, etc). This is something that I experience, at random, more than you JUST because I am obviously foreign.

Speak to Filipino about their experience in Thailand. It is interesting how different it is from mine or another, obviously, foreign national as they are treated like another Thai national until they open their mouths, then they get to watch the change take place. For me that decision is made before the contact based off the colour of my skin. No, I don't buy into the racism thing, it is natural and healthy to notice somebody's skin colour.

To summise. When I experience a negative in Thailand it is INCREDIBLY loaded and strong. When I experience a positive it is similarly loaded and strong. Rough with the smooth. Where I am known I have a good life because I am treated equally, that is nice.

[TommoPhysicist]

Foreigners racism directed at Thais pales into insignificance when compared to Thai racism directed at foreigners.

As a foreigner I can't think of any general nickname we could use for Thais based on their skin colour.

Yet what white foreigner in Thailand hasn't ever been called a ...............

[chiangmaikelly]

Understanding Thai language and culture does of course play a part - from this understanding we know that the term "Farang" is a 'racial' term, it is used to delineate and identify a racial difference - The adaptation from a 'racial' term to a 'racist' term is simple context.

If we tried we could probably get three threads going at the same time about the word, "Farang." You could start one about spelling it with an L instead of an R; that always brings out the nuts.

[submaniac]

Yes draftvader

You try to win an argument by using a quote that is actually not true. You conveniently "forgot" the follow up post:

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

And then you might want to answer this but as i say, please remove the racist jibe on every post you make first, theres a good fellow

I have received some very courteous PM's from submaniac regards my post and pointing out I have confused him with other members of TV. He went on to bring to my attention as to why he is not anti- Islamic. I respect his privacy so will not post the detail. I withdraw my post above (cannot delete) and apologise to submaniac.

I don't even know how I am able to discuss anything with anyone who willingly reposts erroneous information to try to win an argument.

[simple1]

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

Anti-British too. Yes, I am happy that you removed your signature, but you still felt that, until it was picked up on, it was fine to display. It will take me a long time to forget your anti-British sentiment. I also wish you could just accept it was wrong, learn from it and walk away quietly, but look at your signature now. I don't think you should let an educated, 38 year old, British guy that you don't actually know affect you so greatly. That is what is going on with the comments that are upsetting you. Mr TV-poster is upset by 1 individual and reacts to JUST that person and tars a nation.

Yes, there are some VERY polarised opinions on ThaiVisa, however there are also some very good reasons to feel like this sometimes. You and I will be treated differently throughout our "Thailand experience". My positives and negatives will be overly exaggerated due to me being obviously foreign. As I tell visiting friends how to avoid all the unnecessary, and rude, scams I also remind them that the average Thai person has a HUGE heart and is quite willing to share it with them (along with their meal, home, etc). This is something that I experience, at random, more than you JUST because I am obviously foreign.

Speak to Filipino about their experience in Thailand. It is interesting how different it is from mine or another, obviously, foreign national as they are treated like another Thai national until they open their mouths, then they get to watch the change take place. For me that decision is made before the contact based off the colour of my skin. No, I don't buy into the racism thing, it is natural and healthy to notice somebody's skin colour.

To summise. When I experience a negative in Thailand it is INCREDIBLY loaded and strong. When I experience a positive it is similarly loaded and strong. Rough with the smooth. Where I am known I have a good life because I am treated equally, that is nice.

Draftvader - to be fair I made an error in my post re anti Islamic postings & I did post an apology in this thread

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes draftvader

You try to win an argument by using a quote that is actually not true. You conveniently "forgot" the follow up post:

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

And then you might want to answer this but as i say, please remove the racist jibe on every post you make first, theres a good fellow

I have received some very courteous PM's from submaniac regards my post and pointing out I have confused him with other members of TV. He went on to bring to my attention as to why he is not anti- Islamic. I respect his privacy so will not post the detail. I withdraw my post above (cannot delete) and apologise to submaniac.

I don't even know how I am able to discuss anything with anyone who willingly reposts erroneous information to try to win an argument.

You just need some practice. Try posting some red shirt stuff in the news forum. The majority of Thais are red shirts? Right?

[GuestHouse]

Foreigners racism directed at Thais pales into insignificance when compared to Thai racism directed at foreigners.

As a foreigner I can't think of any general nickname we could use for Thais based on their skin colour.

Yet what white foreigner in Thailand hasn't ever been called a ...............

A logical fallacy with a twist.

Two wrongs do not make a right - but in the context of racism which relies on ignorance and misunderstanding of others this logical fallacy adopts the added twist that 'They are racists' so its acceptable for me/us to be racist. (and hence perpetrating the misunderstanding/ignorance at the base of the racism).

Its a silly argument TP but I'm guessing your morning coffee hasn't quite kicked in yet.

Edited September 15, 2012 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

Understanding Thai language and culture does of course play a part - from this understanding we know that the term "Farang" is a 'racial' term, it is used to delineate and identify a racial difference - The adaptation from a 'racial' term to a 'racist' term is simple context.

If we tried we could probably get three threads going at the same time about the word, "Farang." You could start one about spelling it with an L instead of an R; that always brings out the nuts.

Not at all necessary, the usage of the term 'Farang' (though not the transliteration to the latin alphabet) has a place in a discussion of racism in Thailand. Meanwhile your dodging the fact that your own point of view on the use of the term 'Farang' has been demonstrated to be baseless is noted.

[TommoPhysicist]

Foreigners racism directed at Thais pales into insignificance when compared to Thai racism directed at foreigners.

As a foreigner I can't think of any general nickname we could use for Thais based on their skin colour.

Yet what white foreigner in Thailand hasn't ever been called a ...............

A logical fallacy with a twist.

Two wrongs do not make a right - but in the context of racism which relies on ignorance and misunderstanding of others this logical fallacy adopts the added twist that 'They are racists' so its acceptable for me/us to be racist.

Its a silly argument TP but I'm guessing your morning coffee hasn't quite kicked in yet.

No breakfast, no coffee, it's raining cats & dogs, and I'm left holding the baby while Mrs.T is off taking her end-of-year high-school exams.

[2unique]

I'd like to thank the OP for taking time grouping all those funny posts together, gave me a good chuckle

Fantastic and a great port of humour in the storm of self righteous claptrap.

Allowing that the OP was read quite a while and many distractions ago I'll apologize in advance for any margins of error in the following

In just this thread:

I dislike generalizations being spouted as truths, I dislike people trying to justify their racism, I dislike being discriminated against in joining club farang by farangs because I'm not white, I dislike the inference that I'm giving tacit approval because I don't police the internet, I dislike when slavery outside of American whites on blacks is discounted as non existent to prove a point but I do appreciate a well done funny.

Some posts on TV are ill advised, born of ignorance, emotionally charged bias and some are all at the same time. TV also gives us the opportunity to challenge these posts and maintain some sense of balance. I like that the OP made a thread to challenge many of these posts in one place but had issues with the holier than thou stance and his own intolerance towards having a middle of the road opinion or allowing for humour, self depreciation, wryness and temporary insanity.

Is dealing in absolutes any less erroneous than making generalizations when interacting with people?

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

[tartempion]

It's not about racism, it's about nationalities.

Just write the word French and you will see the bigotry.

What about adding Germans, Italians, Walloons etc etc

I worked in many countries and indeed there are general characteristics valid for most people of a given nationality.

Now as far as Thailand is concerned, isn't there something wrong with the education system in the first place?

I learn that here in the village the teacher himself is more absent from school than the children

Edited September 15, 2012 by tartempion

[chiangmaikelly]

Understanding Thai language and culture does of course play a part - from this understanding we know that the term "Farang" is a 'racial' term, it is used to delineate and identify a racial difference - The adaptation from a 'racial' term to a 'racist' term is simple context.

If we tried we could probably get three threads going at the same time about the word, "Farang." You could start one about spelling it with an L instead of an R; that always brings out the nuts.

Not at all necessary, the usage of the term 'Farang' (though not the transliteration to the latin alphabet) has a place in a discussion of racism in Thailand. Meanwhile your dodging the fact that your own point of view on the use of the term 'Farang' has been demonstrated to be baseless is noted.

You mean you think you know more about the word Farang and it's usage in Thailand than I do? You're kidding right?

[WilliaminBKK]

I wish this thread would end. I read every single post and the OP made nasty comments about my people (previously) and some of my people made nasty comments about his people. Move on......I'm not a racist and I'm not offended being called a name.

We don't know what the OP faces in his day to day life in his new country and maybe just maybe he feels this is his way to change the world.

[geriatrickid]

Foreigners racism directed at Thais pales into insignificance when compared to Thai racism directed at foreigners.

As a foreigner I can't think of any general nickname we could use for Thais based on their skin colour.

Yet what white foreigner in Thailand hasn't ever been called a ...............

Exotic, seductive, healthy are some terms I can use, although I exclude all residents of Bangkok foreign and Thai alike from the aforementioned as they have a sickly pallor.

Just trying to lighten up a heavy and somewhat sad thread.

[carmine]

Foreigners racism directed at Thais pales into insignificance when compared to Thai racism directed at foreigners.

As a foreigner I can't think of any general nickname we could use for Thais based on their skin colour.

Yet what white foreigner in Thailand hasn't ever been called a ...............

Exotic, seductive, healthy are some terms I can use, although I exclude all residents of Bangkok foreign and Thai alike from the aforementioned as they have a sickly pallor.

Just trying to lighten up a heavy and somewhat sad thread.

It started off as a horrid little thread and has turned into a horrid big thread. It has also remained a sad one.

Perhaps when it is deemed unecessary to bash foreigners it will be closed. All it was ever intended to do was cause a vitriolic sh1tstorm and to that extent it has been a superb success.

[maxme]

Foreigners racism directed at Thais pales into insignificance when compared to Thai racism directed at foreigners.

As a foreigner I can't think of any general nickname we could use for Thais based on their skin colour.

Yet what white foreigner in Thailand hasn't ever been called a ...............

Exotic, seductive, healthy are some terms I can use, although I exclude all residents of Bangkok foreign and Thai alike from the aforementioned as they have a sickly pallor.

Just trying to lighten up a heavy and somewhat sad thread.

It started off as a horrid little thread and has turned into a horrid big thread. It has also remained a sad one.

Perhaps when it is deemed unecessary to bash foreigners it will be closed. All it was ever intended to do was cause a vitriolic sh1tstorm and to that extent it has been a superb success.

Question is if the OP and others have learned something from this, however I seriously doubt it.

I've seen horrible tourists treating other tourists and locals like second class citizens. I've seen locals doing the same thing to foreigners, Lao, Burmese, farangs etc etc.

Going in a cycle won't do anything good and I'm pretty sure the OP knows this yet he insists of doing the same thing the other feebleminded do. Which makes him better how?

Start by making an example and some people will surely follow.

[draftvader]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. This removes a very small proportion of what I said. You still have directed negative criticisms towards the British as a particular culture. Changing your signature has not changed that. Please re-read my post without the reference to the previous poster. Maybe I should have had a little more time reading everything that had been posted before I quoted another poster. That is my mistake and I apologise to simple1. Sorry.

submaniac. EVERYTHING else in my post still stands. Please respond to that rather than picking on my one mistake.

--EDIT--

For some reason Firefox 15 is having some problems with quotes. This is a reply to post #162

Edited September 15, 2012 by draftvader

[phutoie2]

Farang is not an offensive word. You are barking up the wrong tree. If that is your entire argument, then you have no argument. Go back to your room little boy.

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

Mildly amusing in itself, three quotes from Americans reminding the forum once again that "farang" is not a racist term.

[GuestHouse]

Understanding Thai language and culture does of course play a part - from this understanding we know that the term "Farang" is a 'racial' term, it is used to delineate and identify a racial difference - The adaptation from a 'racial' term to a 'racist' term is simple context.

If we tried we could probably get three threads going at the same time about the word, "Farang." You could start one about spelling it with an L instead of an R; that always brings out the nuts.

Not at all necessary, the usage of the term 'Farang' (though not the transliteration to the latin alphabet) has a place in a discussion of racism in Thailand. Meanwhile your dodging the fact that your own point of view on the use of the term 'Farang' has been demonstrated to be baseless is noted.

You mean you think you know more about the word Farang and it's usage in Thailand than I do? You're kidding right?

Not at all - I have made my argument clear - The term 'Farang' is in and of itself not a racist term, but it is a racial term since it is used to delineate and differentiate race. The step from a "racial term' to a 'racist term' is one of the context of its usage.

As I illustrate by comparison to with the word 'Old' - a neutral word in and of itself but one which relates to age, but which can simply transformed into agist language by the context of its use.

Off the pot now - are you telling us that the term 'Farang' is not a race related term, that it cannot possibly be used in a racist maker and that no Thai person has ever used the term 'Farang' in a racist context?

Edited September 15, 2012 by GuestHouse

[Bung]

I've never read so much twaddle in all my days, from the ridiculous OP through the replies.

I just think most of you are just unhappy people for whom a degree of re-evaluation is needed.

Say's someone who goes by the name "Heavy Drinker"

[Shotime]

Farang is not an offensive word. You are barking up the wrong tree. If that is your entire argument, then you have no argument. Go back to your room little boy.

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

Mildly amusing in itself, three quotes from Americans reminding the forum once again that "farang" is not a racist term.

"It is the attitudes embedded in the language usage, its context which decides if the usage is racist."

Attitude is important if it means someone is just being nasty, but to group all Europeans or their derivatives by a single term is racist. Do Thai's refer to Nigerians as farangs? How do you know they're Americans? Oh yeh, what's with the name calling? It wasn't necessary to make your point. The last refuge of a lost argument. You must be a big man.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Shotime

[chiangmaikelly]

If we tried we could probably get three threads going at the same time about the word, "Farang." You could start one about spelling it with an L instead of an R; that always brings out the nuts.

Not at all necessary, the usage of the term 'Farang' (though not the transliteration to the latin alphabet) has a place in a discussion of racism in Thailand. Meanwhile your dodging the fact that your own point of view on the use of the term 'Farang' has been demonstrated to be baseless is noted.

You mean you think you know more about the word Farang and it's usage in Thailand than I do? You're kidding right?

Not at all - I have made my argument clear - The term 'Farang' is in and of itself not a racist term, but it is a racial term since it is used to delineate and differentiate race. The step from a "racial term' to a 'racist term' is one of the context of its usage.

As I illustrate by comparison to with the word 'Old' - a neutral word in and of itself but one which relates to age, but which can simply transformed into agist language by the context of its use.

Off the pot now - are you telling us that the term 'Farang' is not a race related term, that it cannot possibly be used in a racist maker and that no Thai person has ever used the term 'Farang' in a racist context?

I think you are confusing who and where we are. This is not a classroom and the subject is not semantics 101.

When a person uses the word Farang no one cares except for a few nuts on Thai Visa.

If a Thai wants to insult me I know it and Farang is not the normal first word of choice.

The current Farang discussion stems from this statement, "There is one word I really dislike-farang, falang, whatever. I find it offensive and racist." Which is of course nonesense.

We man actually be in agreement but I may be out of sync.