The Hotbutton Racism Thread

[Time Traveller]

delete

Edited September 15, 2012 by Time Traveller

[Time Traveller]

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

Would both of you agree if the word farang was replaced by the word negro? You would think that's also not racist...but I'm sure a lot of people think it is racist. Of course those ignorant people don't understand the culture, right?

Edited September 15, 2012 by Time Traveller

[chiangmaikelly]

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

Would both of you agree if the word farang was replaced by the word negro? You would think that's also not racist...but I'm sure a lot of people think it is racist. Of course those ignorant people don't understand the culture, right?

I was joking. There have been 368 threads on the word Farang on Thai Visa. Don't you think your question has been asked at least 37 times before? You may or may not understand Thai culture but you don't sound like you have read a couple of hundred threads and literally thousands of posts on Thai Visa about the word Farang. Falang it don't mean nothing.

[hookedondhamma]

Agreed. The stupid argument that the word "farang' is racist is just plain silly.

Agreed beyond silly it is dumb and shows a lack of understanding about Thailand and Thai people!

Would both of you agree if the word farang was replaced by the word negro? You would think that's also not racist...but I'm sure a lot of people think it is racist. Of course those ignorant people don't understand the culture, right?

Why introduce a new factor? Resorting to 'what if' situations holds no ground - 7 pages of responses hovering around the OP's statement is great.

The intent was made clear in the original post, and it's actually nice to not see a thread on here derailed out of context, for once.

[KRS1]

Foreigners racism directed at Thais pales into insignificance when compared to Thai racism directed at foreigners.

As a foreigner I can't think of any general nickname we could use for Thais based on their skin colour.

Yet what white foreigner in Thailand hasn't ever been called a ...............

The term farang is used in the same context as "asian" or "oriental" in your home country, and not necessarily extreme as the derogatory term "chink"...

Some farangs just aren't use to being the minority and do not know how to deal with it.

You're simply experiencing what hundreds of millions of minorities experience on a daily basis.

Welcome to the world.

Edited September 15, 2012 by KRS1

[siamamerican]

OP, well thought out post. I myself have commented on numerous occations in regards to the ofensive racism on this forum. In the end though, it is people speaking from their, possibly deranged, hearts. Let them speak and respond in whatever manner you deem appropriate. Not allowing offensive opinions onto these forums would be counterproductive and insincere. Nutters have a right IMO to free speech and non-nutters have the right to ridicule them.

Not sure what category I fall into (nutter vs non-nutter). I find myself ridiculed quite often so probably a nutter. My issue with this forum isn't racism. Also, what is wrong with generalizing? I guess it is politically incorrect but I do it all the time and life would be extremely complicated if I chose not to generalize.

[maxme]

@Submaniac please re-edit so your post is actually readable. We do not need smaller fonts to see what you really are on about.

[maxme]

OP, well thought out post. I myself have commented on numerous occations in regards to the ofensive racism on this forum. In the end though, it is people speaking from their, possibly deranged, hearts. Let them speak and respond in whatever manner you deem appropriate. Not allowing offensive opinions onto these forums would be counterproductive and insincere. Nutters have a right IMO to free speech and non-nutters have the right to ridicule them.

Not sure what category I fall into (nutter vs non-nutter). I find myself ridiculed quite often so probably a nutter. My issue with this forum isn't racism. Also, what is wrong with generalizing? I guess it is politically incorrect but I do it all the time and life would be extremely complicated if I chose not to generalize.

Tell that to the African-Americans...

[TommoPhysicist]

@Submaniac please re-edit so your post is actually readable. We do not need smaller fonts to see what you really are on about.

I prefer it in 'small script', gives me an excuse not to read his rubbish.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

If this thread were an general indication of how hostile people feel about the notion of racism then we would not have a problem.

Perhaps the problem we have now is that, in the west and largely through legislation, we have suppressed discussion of this topic. People who are racist have learned that to air their unwholesome views will get them into trouble. For this reason we won't have heard from many vehement racists.

Outside Bangkok-Pattaya I have had Thai children laugh at me,point their finger and call me a farang. They are just curious because I look different. They are not part of a racist culture. I don't feel racially oppressed in Thailand but we have to face up to the fact that some real racial differences exist. If they are benign or complimentary then they are racially motivated but not racist. An example referred to earlier was of Thai people being like children. This probably arises their slim physique, youthful appearance and the distribution of their body hair. If however it is used as a reference to their mentality, then it's clearly racist and offensive.

Gutter people are the same the world over. The way to defeat racists is to live by example and show them how undignified and distasteful are their views and behavior

Let's not get hung up about Thailand being racist!

[TommoPhysicist]

If they are benign or complimentary then they are racially motivated but not racist. An example referred to earlier was of Thai people being like children. This probably arises their slim physique, youthful appearance and the distribution of their body hair. If however it is used as a reference to their mentality, then it's clearly racist and offensive.

How about if as a white person, I rave about how much more intelligent and good-looking white people are.

By your logic that wouldn't be racist, but it clearly is.

Assigning characteristics to a person based on the colour of their skin is racist, good or bad characteristics doesn't matter.

[maxme]

If this thread were an general indication of how hostile people feel about the notion of racism then we would not have a problem.

Perhaps the problem we have now is that, in the west and largely through legislation, we have suppressed discussion of this topic. People who are racist have learned that to air their unwholesome views will get them into trouble. For this reason we won't have heard from many vehement racists.

Outside Bangkok-Pattaya I have had Thai children laugh at me,point their finger and call me a farang. They are just curious because I look different. They are not part of a racist culture. I don't feel racially oppressed in Thailand but we have to face up to the fact that some real racial differences exist. If they are benign or complimentary then they are racially motivated but not racist. An example referred to earlier was of Thai people being like children. This probably arises their slim physique, youthful appearance and the distribution of their body hair. If however it is used as a reference to their mentality, then it's clearly racist and offensive.

Gutter people are the same the world over. The way to defeat racists is to live by example and show them how undignified and distasteful are their views and behavior

Let's not get hung up about Thailand being racist!

No you are quite right, it's about education but the mistreatment of Burmese, Lao and Cambodians are what exacty?

Education builds an understanding about people and the society while not having it does the quite opposite but it's easier to point the finger at the pinkies for racism than dealing with your own country problem ain't it?

[2unique]

OP, well thought out post. I myself have commented on numerous occations in regards to the ofensive racism on this forum. In the end though, it is people speaking from their, possibly deranged, hearts. Let them speak and respond in whatever manner you deem appropriate. Not allowing offensive opinions onto these forums would be counterproductive and insincere. Nutters have a right IMO to free speech and non-nutters have the right to ridicule them.

Not sure what category I fall into (nutter vs non-nutter). I find myself ridiculed quite often so probably a nutter. My issue with this forum isn't racism. Also, what is wrong with generalizing? I guess it is politically incorrect but I do it all the time and life would be extremely complicated if I chose not to generalize.

I think life becomes more complicated when we generalise, believe stereotypes to be definitive and hold a subset to be accountable for the whole.

Is it so hard to say in my opinion, from personal experience or amongst my peers which is imho based on personal experience usually the case amongst my peer group

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

If this thread were an general indication of how hostile people feel about the notion of racism then we would not have a problem.

Perhaps the problem we have now is that, in the west and largely through legislation, we have suppressed discussion of this topic. People who are racist have learned that to air their unwholesome views will get them into trouble. For this reason we won't have heard from many vehement racists.

Outside Bangkok-Pattaya I have had Thai children laugh at me,point their finger and call me a farang. They are just curious because I look different. They are not part of a racist culture. I don't feel racially oppressed in Thailand but we have to face up to the fact that some real racial differences exist. If they are benign or complimentary then they are racially motivated but not racist. An example referred to earlier was of Thai people being like children. This probably arises their slim physique, youthful appearance and the distribution of their body hair. If however it is used as a reference to their mentality, then it's clearly racist and offensive.

Gutter people are the same the world over. The way to defeat racists is to live by example and show them how undignified and distasteful are their views and behavior

Let's not get hung up about Thailand being racist!

No you are quite right, it's about education but the mistreatment of Burmese, Lao and Cambodians are what exacty?

Education builds an understanding about people and the society while not having it does the quite opposite but it's easier to point the finger at the pinkies for racism than dealing with your own country problem ain't it?

I can't comment on your first point as it's a matter outside my knowledge.

I might have misunderstood the second point but if you are suggesting that I am pointing a finger at westerners on the matter of racism then let me reassure you this it is not so.

[omnilangur]

So you were a guest in the US, (possibly became a citizen or was born as one by an immigrant, and that is a point in itself), took benefit from all the things you were entitled to; free schooling, govt. assistance, tax returns etc.

Now it seems you are using the best thing America taught you; that is is not only ok but right and just to express your opinion freely; you are using that right to advocate limiting the free speech of others because you don't like or agree with what they are saying.

When you grew up in the US, how many times did your family complain about things, or criticize a politician etc.?

You can't have it both ways; I think one of the things people complain about is the double standard attitude you get here, of which you seem to be promoting.

Don't forget the negative comments about asian mens ding dongs. I see rude racist comments on this forum and hear racist comments towards asians in every Western country I've been too......

[chiangmaikelly]

So you were a guest in the US, (possibly became a citizen or was born as one by an immigrant, and that is a point in itself), took benefit from all the things you were entitled to; free schooling, govt. assistance, tax returns etc.

Now it seems you are using the best thing America taught you; that is is not only ok but right and just to express your opinion freely; you are using that right to advocate limiting the free speech of others because you don't like or agree with what they are saying.

When you grew up in the US, how many times did your family complain about things, or criticize a politician etc.?

You can't have it both ways; I think one of the things people complain about is the double standard attitude you get here, of which you seem to be promoting.

Don't forget the negative comments about asian mens ding dongs. I see rude racist comments on this forum and hear racist comments towards asians in every Western country I've been too......

Is this what you mean?

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/584329-thai-police-applicants-told-they-cannot-have-genital-implants/

I thought it was a bit rude.

Edited September 15, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[Docno]

I personally respect submaniac for raising this issue in a thoughtful and composed manner. I can only imagine what it might feel like to be a Thai and to read some of the offensive comments that are regularly posted here. I continue to be perplexed as to why people who have a Thai partner/wife and who perhaps have chosen to live in Thailand express such attitudes. Yes, I know this sort of opinion has been repeated here a thousand times. But so have the offensive comments.

One more thing... This is not about being PC. It's about showing respect for others ...

[maxme]

If this thread were an general indication of how hostile people feel about the notion of racism then we would not have a problem.

Perhaps the problem we have now is that, in the west and largely through legislation, we have suppressed discussion of this topic. People who are racist have learned that to air their unwholesome views will get them into trouble. For this reason we won't have heard from many vehement racists.

Outside Bangkok-Pattaya I have had Thai children laugh at me,point their finger and call me a farang. They are just curious because I look different. They are not part of a racist culture. I don't feel racially oppressed in Thailand but we have to face up to the fact that some real racial differences exist. If they are benign or complimentary then they are racially motivated but not racist. An example referred to earlier was of Thai people being like children. This probably arises their slim physique, youthful appearance and the distribution of their body hair. If however it is used as a reference to their mentality, then it's clearly racist and offensive.

Gutter people are the same the world over. The way to defeat racists is to live by example and show them how undignified and distasteful are their views and behavior

Let's not get hung up about Thailand being racist!

No you are quite right, it's about education but the mistreatment of Burmese, Lao and Cambodians are what exacty?

Education builds an understanding about people and the society while not having it does the quite opposite but it's easier to point the finger at the pinkies for racism than dealing with your own country problem ain't it?

I can't comment on your first point as it's a matter outside my knowledge.

I might have misunderstood the second point but if you are suggesting that I am pointing a finger at westerners on the matter of racism then let me reassure you this it is not so.

No I didn't say you were but I'm saying that the OP was doing that and when Thailand (his home) shows even worse cases of racism. Take the Royhingas for example.

Now we have been there and done that. White people have done some terrible things in the past but we had to learn the hard way and to take this matter from a different approach. We are still learning as a matter of fact

I'm not excusing the misanthropes that come to Thailand and treat others like dirt, it's horrible and repulsive but that doesn't excuse him to go down on the westerners in this matter either.

He himself made a bungle and have made no effort in making an apology while in the west god forbids we slipped even once , some of us could actually end up in court. Now is that because we are racists, the whole bunch of us, or is it because we have realized that generalization will give us nothing but grief?

Edited September 15, 2012 by maxme

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

If they are benign or complimentary then they are racially motivated but not racist. An example referred to earlier was of Thai people being like children. This probably arises their slim physique, youthful appearance and the distribution of their body hair. If however it is used as a reference to their mentality, then it's clearly racist and offensive.

How about if as a white person, I rave about how much more intelligent and good-looking white people are.

By your logic that wouldn't be racist, but it clearly is.

Assigning characteristics to a person based on the colour of their skin is racist, good or bad characteristics doesn't matter.

I don't agree. Germans are methodical. Lebanese are good administrators but not all Germans are methodical and not all Lebanese are good administrators.

The racism arises from attributing an unfavorable generalization to an individual by reason of his race. A generalization I often hear in Thailand is that all Russians are rude.

It might not be true of the Russian who is sitting next to you in the cafe even though it may be true of your experience generally or you have heard it to be so.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[lovelaos]

To everyone,

Thank you for your responses. Just to reiterrate I am trying to stay out of it. And when I say that I mean that I want people to say what's on their minds, and what they think without the fear that I am going to get into a fight with them over their response. (And Guesthouse, I am saying this to you in particular because I completely repect you and I just wanted to let you know why I am not saying anything).

I don't want to turn it into a "me controlling the thread". What it is is that I made a comment. I expect people to respond freely to it. I don't want to respond for fear of what I say being judgmental of what they had to say. It's called freedom of speech. You don't like what I have to say, then contradict me. Feel free to criticize me. I have my own faults and prejudices like everyone else. If you want to say I am full of s__t, then by all means say it. That's the point of me writing this thread.

I just got sick of bottling up my feelings for so long. When I wrote this, I've been on Thaivisa long enough to know I wasn't going to get alot of hugs and kisses. Frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm tired. If anyone has bottled up their feelings, now's the time to let loose.

And as to the Brit bashing, I didn't mention any nationality in my original post. I don't want to turn this into a bash of one people. I will admit I have said things bashing the British in the past, which I do not want this thread to turn into. And as an explanation, my feelings were based upon the fact that for alot of these posts that I am having a problem with...I doubt highly that it was an American, Canadian, New Zealand, or Australian accent I was reading. I got tired of listening to it myself without saying something back. And if you're offended at my comments as to the British, realize that I felt the same way when it was directed towards the Thais.

One of the reasons I wrote this post is because of what happened. You see, one of the people who read the posts that I didn't like was theblether, who is British. He was one of the people (and was not the only one) I saw that actually took a stand and disaproved of the comments. Then I went off and insulted his people in a thread. But he actually read the comments and knew what was being said and why I was getting upset. He actually came onto the thread and defended me after I just insulted his country. Then I felt terrible, because I had not jabbed the people making these comments, but I also realized that there were a whole lot of other British on this board that have been nothing but kind, wonderful people that I just insulted too.

And Thais say 'Farang think too much'

[submaniac]

He himself made a bungle and have made no effort in making an apology while in the west god forbids we slipped even once , some of us could actually end up in court. Now is that because we are racists, the whole bunch of us, or is it because we have realized that generalization will give us nothing but grief?

Maxme, stop altering what actually occurred.

1. I never said I hate the British to Begin with:

I point out that there are alot of Brits here that I absolutely adore, and am friends with like Thaicbr, Bigbikebkk, BKKjames, and if you count the Scotts as British I adore eek, and theblether and smokie35 and whatnot. So I am not anti British per se. I am anti-the ones that think they are the lord of the plantation during colonial days, and we Thais are there little brown servants. That is what I hate.

2. I apologized in this thread if I had insulted the British, and I also apologized on the original thread:

Posted 2012-09-04 21:15:00

submaniac, on 2012-09-04 16:15:03, said:

As to 2dogz, I apologize to anyone who was mislead, it was not intentional. I apologize to any of our genuinely good regular TV posters who were caught in the crossfire. I apologize to theblether for dragging him into this. I apologize to cdnvic for having to clean up this thread. No further apologies will be forthcoming. If the individual who was on the flight is reading this, any other civilized human being would have just changed seats

so the issue is not me bungling things up. The issue is that I have spent five years listening to this stuff in quiet. I wrote the post so we can have it out in the open and that we can discuss our feelings of it. However you Maxme (which also was one of the people who were digging the original posts which I was taking issue with) and TommoPhysicist have been trying to stop the thread so that others do not have the ability to discuss their feelings on the racism on Thaivisa. That's all you do is try and prevent people from even expressing an opinion on the Thaivisa racism issue.

So why can't people feel free to have an open discussion about racism, without some racists coming to say we shouldn't talk about it and the thread should be closed? I do not want to "point fingers" so much as I want this behavior to stop, and the only way it will stop is by bringing to people's attention that it happens.

Edited September 15, 2012 by submaniac

[travelmann]

Pls do us all a favour and have a longer rest??

[submaniac]

^^ because people like you do not like your racism being dislcosed openly. You would prefer to do it covertly and keep it hidden.

Edited September 15, 2012 by submaniac

[carmine]

Pls do us all a favour and have a longer rest??

Amen to that. The forum could well do without the bigotry.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

If this thread were an general indication of how hostile people feel about the notion of racism then we would not have a problem.

Perhaps the problem we have now is that, in the west and largely through legislation, we have suppressed discussion of this topic. People who are racist have learned that to air their unwholesome views will get them into trouble. For this reason we won't have heard from many vehement racists.

Outside Bangkok-Pattaya I have had Thai children laugh at me,point their finger and call me a farang. They are just curious because I look different. They are not part of a racist culture. I don't feel racially oppressed in Thailand but we have to face up to the fact that some real racial differences exist. If they are benign or complimentary then they are racially motivated but not racist. An example referred to earlier was of Thai people being like children. This probably arises their slim physique, youthful appearance and the distribution of their body hair. If however it is used as a reference to their mentality, then it's clearly racist and offensive.

Gutter people are the same the world over. The way to defeat racists is to live by example and show them how undignified and distasteful are their views and behavior

Let's not get hung up about Thailand being racist!

No you are quite right, it's about education but the mistreatment of Burmese, Lao and Cambodians are what exacty?

Education builds an understanding about people and the society while not having it does the quite opposite but it's easier to point the finger at the pinkies for racism than dealing with your own country problem ain't it?

I can't comment on your first point as it's a matter outside my knowledge.

I might have misunderstood the second point but if you are suggesting that I am pointing a finger at westerners on the matter of racism then let me reassure you this it is not so.

No I didn't say you were but I'm saying that the OP was doing that and when Thailand (his home) shows even worse cases of racism. Take the Royhingas for example.

Now we have been there and done that. White people have done some terrible things in the past but we had to learn the hard way and to take this matter from a different approach. We are still learning as a matter of fact

I'm not excusing the misanthropes that come to Thailand and treat others like dirt, it's horrible and repulsive but that doesn't excuse him to go down on the westerners in this matter either.

He himself made a bungle and have made no effort in making an apology while in the west god forbids we slipped even once , some of us could actually end up in court. Now is that because we are racists, the whole bunch of us, or is it because we have realized that generalization will give us nothing but grief?

Understood

[mrtoad]

Maybe the point has been made?

[carmine]

Maybe the point has been made?

The only point i can deduce from this "topic' about racism is it seems to take one to know one. Also that ignorant steroetyping is allowed. Other than that is a monument to tedium

[mjj]

I still don't understand why people get upset by generalisations. They are not personal, they may be derogatory, but they are so far from being definite in most peoples mind. Sure you get a few people that are real racist, Kkk, etc. But for most of us they are nothing more than flippant comments.

French are rude, Americans are loud mouth, Thai's are stupid, English are violent piss heads, Scots are cheap charlies, Kiwis are sheep sha66ers, Germans are obnoxious. If you belong to any of these nationalities, does it really upset you to hear it?

If people have a bad view of my race or nationality, I don't find it personally offensive. Am I just thick skinned and stupid or is my understanding of it all a bit warped?

Edited September 15, 2012 by mjj

[ttthailand]

I think 99% of people who move to Thailand did so because they liked what they saw. It is only after they have been here and have had problems they they start to look at Thais differently. There has to be a reason.....

[phuturatica]

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.