Reckless driving! Wet roads! Bald tyres? Under the influance?

It makes me sick that this never stops.

50 posts and not one comment about the need to take care when crossing road. If you are drunk (strong possibility at 4am) and run across a road in front of cars you can get killed. The victims must also share some of the blame. She was 29 years old, not a school kid. 70km/h is not extreme in Bangkok.

The way I learned to drive a car, the driver should adapt his speed to his ability to control the vehicle under prevailing conditions (wet road, poor visibility). Having lived near the very spot where this accident happened, I can say unequivocally that 70-80 was excessive.

It is true that crossing the road at that point is risky. But being drunk at 4AM on foot is not illegal. And seeing that Thai drivers are generally oblivious to zebra crossings even when there are any, I think that blaming the victims in this case is not warranted.

Read my post again. I said the pedestrians should share the blame because they are at fault too. Jaywalking across a road when drunk is not smart and it's bound to get a few people killed from time to time. Unfortunately it happened in Thailand where Thai bashers can once again complain about how uncivilized this country is and how badly they drive.

Some of these tourists should never have left home, or they should be supervised when going out.

Edited September 16, 201213 yr by tropo

That picture and the map clearly show that the accident did NOT take place in Soi Suan Phlu but in Sathorn Road itself, perhaps at the mouth of Soi Suan Phlu. Sathorn has four lanes in each direction, as the map shows and the picture indicates. It's a case of bad reporting, or poor English, to say it happened IN Soi Suan Phlu.

To be travelling at 70-80 kph in Sathorn Road is pretty slow compared to normal standards on that road, where traffic goes at high speed whenever it can, so if this driver was truly travelling at that speed, at night, in the rain, it would indicate caution and not recklessness.

On the other hand, pedestrians can only cross the great expanse of Sathorn Road at very few points, because there is a canal in the middle. At those points there are traffic lights which enable safe, or at least relatively safe, crossing for pedestrians. Were these women trying to cross at the right place, or just chancing it somewhere with no idea there is a canal blocking the way across for 95% of the length of Sathorn Road? It's quite possible it was the latter, in which case no driver familiar with Sathorn would be expecting any pedestrian to be crossing the road.

Given all this, and again if the speed was truly 70-80 kph, it's difficult to fault the driver, because the recklessness is more likely on the part of the women. Not stopping is bad, of course, very bad, but is normal in Thai culture, avoiding responsibility, avoiding losing face, etc. The guy did something which wasn't his fault, got very scared of being blamed for it, and fled the scene just as if he were responsible for it But he later owned up, which is unusual.

I'm writing this as someone who knows Sathorn very well, as you can see, and who has also been inside a taxi trundling along Rama IV Road at relatively slow speed in broad daylight when a man suddenly ran smack in front of the vehicle and was hit full on, bouncing onto the bonnet and smashing the windscreen, then slumping to the road. This was not the taxi driver's fault, either.

So give the guy a break, and think perhaps of two clueless -- and possibly inebriated -- tourists.

That picture and the map clearly show that the accident did NOT take place in Soi Suan Phlu but in Sathorn Road itself, perhaps at the mouth of Soi Suan Phlu. Sathorn has four lanes in each direction, as the map shows and the picture indicates. It's a case of bad reporting, or poor English, to say it happened IN Soi Suan Phlu.

To be travelling at 70-80 kph in Sathorn Road is pretty slow compared to normal standards on that road, where traffic goes at high speed whenever it can, so if this driver was truly travelling at that speed, at night, in the rain, it would indicate caution and not recklessness.

On the other hand, pedestrians can only cross the great expanse of Sathorn Road at very few points, because there is a canal in the middle. At those points there are traffic lights which enable safe, or at least relatively safe, crossing for pedestrians. Were these women trying to cross at the right place, or just chancing it somewhere with no idea there is a canal blocking the way across for 95% of the length of Sathorn Road? It's quite possible it was the latter, in which case no driver familiar with Sathorn would be expecting any pedestrian to be crossing the road.

Given all this, and again if the speed was truly 70-80 kph, it's difficult to fault the driver, because the recklessness is more likely on the part of the women. Not stopping is bad, of course, very bad, but is normal in Thai culture, avoiding responsibility, avoiding losing face, etc. The guy did something which wasn't his fault, got very scared of being blamed for it, and fled the scene just as if he were responsible for it But he later owned up, which is unusual.

I'm writing this as someone who knows Sathorn very well, as you can see, and who has also been inside a taxi trundling along Rama IV Road at relatively slow speed in broad daylight when a man suddenly ran smack in front of the vehicle and was hit full on, bouncing onto the bonnet and smashing the windscreen, then slumping to the road. This was not the taxi driver's fault, either.

So give the guy a break, and think perhaps of two clueless -- and possibly inebriated -- tourists.

Except they were not tourists, they were teachers working in Sathorn, according to today's press reports.

The accused:

Thai Rath news (article in Thai)

http://www.thairath....t/region/291299

===========================================================

Heavily pixelated photos of the victim and the crash scene:

Ban Muang (article in Thai)

http://www.banmuang....ger;ช/

=========================================================

Drawing of the crash scene:

Daily News (article in Thai)

http://www.dailynews...th/crime/155289

Seems The Nation may have missed a few things here:

The diagram in the Daily news showst the accident scene as Sathorn Road proper, not Soi 3 (Suanphlu). Nevertheless, 80 Km/H seems like excessive speed in the rain.

The DN article also reports that witnesses called in the number and color of the taxi to a radio station popular with taxi drivers and commuters. Therefore the driver was likely aware that his capture was imminent. Hence, he decided to turn himself in to secure a discount on his sentence, seeing as he wasn't likely to get a way with his crime anyway.

I used to live very near the accident scene. Although the area is heavily populated, cars routinely use this stretch of road like a raceway. Due to a lack of convenient pedestrian crossings, many people unfortunately take the risk of crossing at street level.

What is lack of convenient pedestrian crossings.. walking a couple of 100 meters extra ? or are we talking km's here ? Here we have an 8 lane road too and yes you have to walk further to get to crossings but crossing 8 lanes of traffic is madness.

So what's your point? Are you saying they deserved to get mowed down?

You seem reasonably intelligent and you know the place, so you ought to be able to see that his point is that if you cross at this place -- and I have known this place myself for 30 years -- then you are most likely to be at fault if you get hit by a car going at 70-80kph, well within the speed limit and far slower than most vehicles on Sathorn at most times, except in jams.

Reckless driving! Wet roads! Bald tyres? Under the influance?

It makes me sick that this never stops.

50 posts and not one comment about the need to take care when crossing road. If you are drunk (strong possibility at 4am) and run across a road in front of cars you can get killed. The victims must also share some of the blame. She was 29 years old, not a school kid. 70km/h is not extreme in Bangkok.

The way I learned to drive a car, the driver should adapt his speed to his ability to control the vehicle under prevailing conditions (wet road, poor visibility). Having lived near the very spot where this accident happened, I can say unequivocally that 70-80 was excessive.

It is true that crossing the road at that point is risky. But being drunk at 4AM on foot is not illegal. And seeing that Thai drivers are generally oblivious to zebra crossings even when there are any, I think that blaming the victims in this case is not warranted.

Read my post again. I said the pedestrians should share the blame because they are at fault too. Jaywalking across a road when drunk is not smart and it's bound to get a few people killed from time to time. Unfortunately it happened in Thailand where Thai bashers can once again complain about how uncivilized this country is and how badly they drive.

Some of these tourists should never have left home, or they should be supervised when going out.

If saying that the standards of driving skill and compliance with traffic laws are very low in Thailand make me a Thai basher, then so be it.

While I think the driver should be jailed for felling the scene, the actual accident may not have been his fault. It is possible the women stepped into the path of the taxi and there was nothing he could do. It's not always the fault of the driver. He may have been driving a little fast, but it seems to be a fact that the women were hit while on the road and not the pavement. So you have to wonder what they were doing in the road. We will have to wait to see what the woman who survived had to say. In a hit and run like this in the UK, the drive would also be out on bail.

Driving 70-80kmh (according to the driver, it may have been more) on a city street at night and in rain is definately reckless. There is a general rule regarding driving that says: Never drive faster than you can stop your vehicle within the stretch of road you can oversee ahead. Same as Adapt your speed to the circumstances. When you hit something or someone, you have disregarded these rules. They are not 100% though. You can be hit by someone running a red light or ignoring a stop sign, both very common here.

How about a bit of defensive training for pedestrians then. Assume everyone is driving too fast, they're drunk and half blind driving defective vehicles. Don't jaywalk and don't walk the streets drunk at 4am in a foreign city.

Any idea of what the minimum and maximum penalties are in Thailand for fleeing the scene of a traffic accident? anyone?

Well the maximum would be, beaten to death by the search party.

While I think the driver should be jailed for felling the scene, the actual accident may not have been his fault. It is possible the women stepped into the path of the taxi and there was nothing he could do. It's not always the fault of the driver. He may have been driving a little fast, but it seems to be a fact that the women were hit while on the road and not the pavement. So you have to wonder what they were doing in the road. We will have to wait to see what the woman who survived had to say. In a hit and run like this in the UK, the drive would also be out on bail.

Driving 70-80kmh (according to the driver, it may have been more) on a city street at night and in rain is definately reckless. There is a general rule regarding driving that says: Never drive faster than you can stop your vehicle within the stretch of road you can oversee ahead. Same as Adapt your speed to the circumstances. When you hit something or someone, you have disregarded these rules. They are not 100% though. You can be hit by someone running a red light or ignoring a stop sign, both very common here.

Sathorn Road is not a "city street", it is an urban highway deliberately built to enable rapid movement of traffic with little impedement. If you know Bangkok, you know that. If you come across this road not knowing it, it should be fairly obvious fairly quickly. Travelling at 70-80 kph at night and in moderate rain is entirely reasonable on Sathorn Road. Given all the other factors explained by myself and others familiar with Sathorn, the strong likelihood is that these women were at fault, not the driver.

Reading all of these posts reminded me of some friends who came to Thailand for the first time. I was doing my best to help them and give what I considered good advice.

One afternoon in Pitsanulok we were trying to cross a street.one lane each way. I told them to wait for a clear opening to cross. One of the women in the group decided the cars should stop for a pedestrian same as in Canada.She ran out in front of a car the driver swerved to miss her and just about took all the rest of us out, and kept going. All I could think is "what a bull headed woman just about got me killed." The next day I bid them farewell and left them to their own devices. So who knows maybe these women decided to cross with the same assumption, (the cars must stop for a pedestrian). Not saying they did but have in real life experienced a moment when someone acted on the assumption the cars must stop.

Edited September 16, 201213 yr by lovelomsak

Very unfortunate but totally avoidable accident. I use this stretch of the road (coming out of Suan Phlu onto South Sathorn) every morning to office. If the crash scene map is correct, there is no pedestrian crossing outside the shell gas station. Looks like they were trying to cross the main Sathorn 4 lane road at 4am in the rain. There is a pedestrian crossing at the red light a further 100mtrs away and an overhead pedestrian bridge about 300mtrs away.

Its about time Thailand started charging those who flee the scene of an accident.

Bingo. We have a winner folks.

He was released on bail, therefore he was charged.......

Reading all of these posts reminded me of some friends who came to Thailand for the first time. I was doing my best to help them and give what I considered good advice.

One afternoon in Pitsanulok we were trying to cross a street.one lane each way. I told them to wait for a clear opening to cross. One of the women in the group decided the cars should stop for a pedestrian same as in Canada.She ran out in front of a car the driver swerved to miss her and just about took all the rest of us out, and kept going. All I could think is "what a bull headed woman just about got me killed." The next day I bid them farewell and left them to their own devices. So who knows maybe these women decided to cross with the same assumption, (the cars must stop for a pedestrian). Not saying they did but have in real life experienced a moment when someone acted on the assumption the cars must stop.

I sympathise, but I'd like to make a point about Thai drivers and their treatment of pedestrians. Whilst reckless driving is extremely common in Thailand, Thai drivers generally accommodate pedestrians crossing the road by slowing down or driving round them, or even letting them safely cross. Compare what happens in, for example, Egypt or China, where drivers give no quarter and just keep on coming, leaving it up to you to jump out of the way, and you can say that Thai drivers are quite considerate to pedestrians. They know that in most cases pedestrians just have to chance it when crossing the road, and they mostly accommodate to them because of that, perhaps with a bit of Buddhist compassion thrown in. .

Very unfortunate but totally avoidable accident. I use this stretch of the road (coming out of Suan Phlu onto South Sathorn) every morning to office. If the crash scene map is correct, there is no pedestrian crossing outside the shell gas station. Looks like they were trying to cross the main Sathorn 4 lane road at 4am in the rain. There is a pedestrian crossing at the red light a further 100mtrs away and an overhead pedestrian bridge about 300mtrs away.

Exactly.

Reckless driving! Wet roads! Bald tyres? Under the influance?

It makes me sick that this never stops.

Wet roads? I'm sure that doesn't happen where you are from

Unless I missed something, the article didn't mention bald tires or the driver being under the influence??

Was that information courtesy of your tin foil hat?

I don't usually keep track of bail rates, but that sure sounds a lot more than what most (or every) scumbag MP gets.

If saying that the standards of driving skill and compliance with traffic laws are very low in Thailand make me a Thai basher, then so be it.

You consider yourself a defensive driver, right? The number one rule when going out here (on foot or in a vehicle) is to assume no one else drives defensively. That rule will help to keep you alive.

Compliance with traffic laws is a government responsibility. Drivers are just as crazy back home if they're not being watched... why else would they need random breath testing, speed cameras, red light cameras, safety cameras etc?

The picture in the OP and the map of the scene do not appear to be showing the same bit of road. RIP to the deceased, As for the passenger doing a runner. When I 1st visited Thailand, the advice given to me was that, if the taxi has a prang do not be found near the scene by the police. They'll hold you in part responsible for the accident.

That is complete nonsense.

Not as much as you believe. If in Afrika (DRC as I personally know) you help an injured person from a road accident to the hospital you are so-called co-responsible and you have to pay for all his expenses. Police can even declare that YOU caused this accident in which this person was injured... I have seen people dying on the road with tens of people passing-by not even giving a glimpse to him.

Very unfortunate but totally avoidable accident. I use this stretch of the road (coming out of Suan Phlu onto South Sathorn) every morning to office. If the crash scene map is correct, there is no pedestrian crossing outside the shell gas station. Looks like they were trying to cross the main Sathorn 4 lane road at 4am in the rain. There is a pedestrian crossing at the red light a further 100mtrs away and an overhead pedestrian bridge about 300mtrs away.

And to add

Very sad for the women, but they were crossing an 8 lane road (according to the map) in the rain at 4am in the morning.

What is the speed limit for that road?

Were the ladies drunk or drugged?

Easy to blame the Thai car driver (Thai bashing) but we don't know the full facts and the car driver might be completely innocent (or completely guilty)

Edited September 16, 201213 yr by TommoPhysicist

Its about time Thailand started charging those who flee the scene of an accident.

Bingo. We have a winner folks.

Did you mean wiener? It says in the article - "Cabbie Rungreuthai Phosri, 31, who surrendered at 6.30am, was charged with driving recklessly leading to others' death and injury and fleeing the scene."

I get a kick out of the folks that would prosecute the taxi passenger for hopping another taxi and fleeing the scene....

I remember the video of the poor little kid in china run over by car and many people just walk past and ignore them. If you are trying to justify behavior like this and excuse people fleeing an accident when some is badly hurt then your a selfish person. A society like that is sick.

I'm not smart enough to pass judgment on societies I didn't grow up in.

You wanna take the chance of ruining the rest of your life because the car you happened to hire had an accident, more power to you.

I'll make my own decisions based on what I know about the consequences in the society where it happens, and not based on the obviously superior cultural norms of my home country. (that's sarcasm, by the way)

You may, of course, judge my level of selfishness based on my actions after I've been in the same situation. I'll post back when it happens to me. You please do the same...

Edited September 16, 201213 yr by impulse

then you are most likely to be at fault if you get hit by a car going at 70-80kph, well within the speed limit and far slower than most vehicles on Sathorn at most times, except in jams.

The speed limit is 60km/h on Sathorn and in most built up areas.

Edited September 16, 201213 yr by FarangTalk

If saying that the standards of driving skill and compliance with traffic laws are very low in Thailand make me a Thai basher, then so be it.

You consider yourself a defensive driver, right? The number one rule when going out here (on foot or in a vehicle) is to assume no one else drives defensively. That rule will help to keep you alive.

Compliance with traffic laws is a government responsibility. Drivers are just as crazy back home if they're not being watched... why else would they need random breath testing, speed cameras, red light cameras, safety cameras etc?

We disagree again. Compliance is the driver's responsibility. ENFORCEMENT is the government's. So, just add lack of enforcement to my list of Thai bashing opinions.

And yes, I consider myself a defensive driver, hence I managed to somehow stay alive (so far) after 10 years here. Didn't do me much good when a public bus jumped the curb a few years ago on Sathorn and mowed down a group of people waiting for the light to change, including myself. At least I lived to tell the story.

Edited September 16, 201213 yr by fstarbkk

Easy to blame the Thai car driver (Thai bashing) but we don't know the full facts and the car driver might be completely innocent (or completely guilty)

He fled the scene, that usually indicates he's got something to hide.

Me and my girlfriend arrived on the scene just after the accident happened. First, I just want to clarify some things here, because there have been some misinformation:

- The accident took place on Sathorn itself, not Suan Phlu.

- One girl lay right outside the gas station, while the other lay about 50 m before her (direction of Lumpini).

- The two passengers in the taxi looked completely bewildered and shocked and disappeared shortly after we arrived, so whether they took another cab or left in another way it has been because of shock and not due to knowingly not caring about what happened.

I think it would be wrong to blaim the taxi driver at this point. As far as we know, the girls might have run out in front of the car, giving him few if any options. But we actually don't know. Did he have green light or was it only "taxi green"? These things can only be found out by asking the passengers in the taxi, and probably also by looking at footage from the surveillance cams outside the australian embassy. These cams should have captured the whole thing if they're not aligned to only look over the sidewalk.

I don't want to write any more details in here in respect for the families, for whom both be and my girlfriend are deeply sorry. We still think about these girls every day and night. If somebody close to them reads this, feel free to contact me for more details, as I'm not sure the thai authorities will provide fulfilling or accurate information.

What we should really debate here is the apalling state of the emergency services in this country. As there are no "911" number, people are left to call some random private hospital and hope that they'll send out an ambulance if something happens. This accident happened right around the corner from BNH Hospital, but the ambulances had to come from some other hospital far away for reasons I do not know. I was told that BNH don't have any ambulances, and that this was the reason, but I don't believe that. I've seen ambulances go out from that hospital with sirens many times. When an ambulance do arrive, it's not like when an ambulance arrive in the western world, where it will be and actual mobile ICU, often with a doctor present. Often it is more like 50 years ago in the west, where the ambulance drivers have some first aid training at best, and the rescue effort consists of throwing the victims in the back of the car and rushing to the hospital.

What kind of country can't even provide it's population with a proper emergency service? Thailand is a contry with so many tourists, it's amazing that they haven't acted on this, given that safety is a top criteria for when tourists decide on where to go. I think that if tourists actually knew how bad the situation is, a lot of them would stay away.

Thai drivers generally accommodate pedestrians crossing the road by slowing down or driving round them, or even letting them safely cross.

Standing outside my Soi on Charoen Krung at the zebra crossing watching the people trying to cross the road when there's a green man will relieve you of that notion.

then you are most likely to be at fault if you get hit by a car going at 70-80kph, well within the speed limit and far slower than most vehicles on Sathorn at most times, except in jams.

The speed limit is 60km/h on Sathorn and in most built up areas.

I somehow doubt this information that the speed limit would be 60 km an hour on a four lane road made for high speed travel as others have stated.

Easy to blame the Thai car driver (Thai bashing) but we don't know the full facts and the car driver might be completely innocent (or completely guilty)

He fled the scene, that usually indicates he's got something to hide.

It's absolutely normal to flee the scene in this country (shock, surprise, fear), but he did give himself up within two hours (which isn't normal).

I feel very sorry for the woman, her family, and the taxi driver. All very unfortunate.

Edited September 16, 201213 yr by TommoPhysicist

I somehow doubt this information that the speed limit would be 60 km an hour on a four lane road made for high speed travel as others have stated.

Sathorn Road is not a road made for high speed travel. It is a main thoroughfare in the central business district. The area is home to many hotels, restaurants, schools and businesses.

The speed limit in the area is 60 km/h.

Another tourist leaves Thailand in a box....Dreadful

For those unaware (and if so you really shouldn't be driving in Thailand yourself), normal speed limits in Thailand are 60km/h (37mph) in the city, 90km/h (56mph) on main country roads and 120km/h (74mph) on expressways.