Can Men Wear Makeup? Any Facial Additives?

[PeaceBlondie]

The boys in the Gay Forum are discussing facial make-up, so I thought I'd start a special thread for it. But I'll give this a broader approach: any alterations to what our face would look like without some special effort to change the appearance.

Most men, straight or gay, probably react negatively: "Of course not, real men don't wear foundation, cover-up creams, eyeliner, fake eyelashes, etc."

Cologne? After-Shave? Do you put something concealing on your face when you nick yourself with the razor? We all get blemishes from time to time - do you leave it there for all the world to see?

Naturally, men naturally grow facial hair. Isn't shaving a form of make up, where we make ourselves look unnatural? Aren't beards, sideburns, mustaches, goatees, etc., a form of restructuring our appearance?

What about a balding man who wears a wig? If you lose an eye to an accident, wouldn't you get a prosthesis (plastic eye) if you could?

Cosmetic surgery of the face isn't limited to the Michael Jackson types. It's quite popular with affluent men over the age of 40.

And TEETH! Cigarette smokers try whitening products, or go to the dentist for whitening. We pay a lot of money for teeth straightening, cavities, caps, false teeth. Wouldn't want to look like the photo on the cigarette pack here in the Land of Smiles (please, no 'fag' jokes in this forum, Brits).

So maybe real men (of which gay men are quite real, by the way) can alter their facial appearance without losing a microgram of their virility, or their testosterone.

[DUMPSTER]

Men's grooming is a multi million dollar industry now. It's no longer considered a gay only thing to take care of you face/body. Straight men have finally woken up. Men only beauty shops are quite common now.

Talking of prosthesis, I have a friend who had testicular cancer and he had to have one of his testicles removed. The hospital offered him a prosthesis but he declined. He said he wasn't that vain. I on the other hand have been thinking of plastic surgery quite a lot lately. What would I have done?

I'm really trying not to be as vain as I have been in the past. However at this time, I wouldn't mind a brow lift, butt and chest implants, can’t be doing with gyms anymore, a fair bit of lipo here and there. I've had botox before, both here and in the UK, and it certainly gets rid of the wrinkles but it's an ongoing expense.

I'd say, if you want to look younger than your years then go for it but there must come a point when you should accept the way you are and just let nature take its natural course. For me that time is now but I'm having a tough time fighting the ego on this one.

Edited January 29, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[Uma~~]

There is a very thin line between insecurity and vanity. The former is often mistaken for the latter, but as I said in 'our forum' it is important to love yourself because it is that which generates confidence which is attractive above all else whatever your gender or preference.

[boybrat]

i do agree with dumpster. many men , straight or otherwise, have discovered the joys of looking good.

######, the things i go through just look good. let's see: monthly haircuts at a nice salon, monthly deep-pore facials, back sack and crack waxing (ouch), buzz my leg hairs, have had caps done on my teeth, have had my teeth whitened, do indoor tanning, go to the gym 7 days a week, do lots of vile cardio, splurge on hydroxycut, buzz, shave and buff just to look NATURAL.

however, cos of all these stuff i do to myself, i only take 15 minutes tops to get ready before going out. i do not have to worry about bad hair days nor do i have to worry about putting on foundation and loose powder. ironic, isnt it?

vanity is not always a bad thing, i guess.

[ChrisP]

Boybrat..

Where do you do your indoor tanning in BKK...??

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

And is it true what they say about waxing hurting less after the first time?

[dukkha]

For me living in this climate have succumbed to moisturiser/body lotion/ eye lotion/facial scrubs/and any unguents I can get my greedy little hands upon..waxing, no draw the line at that...!!

[boybrat]

hmm.i used be on official duty in thailand for a year. ive since gone home. i do my indoor tanning at a tanning salon NOT in thailand. im sorry but i do not know where to get indoor-tanned in bkk.

regarding waxing. i think not. waxing my back, sack and crack is painful EVERYTIME i get it done. remember, get your waxing done by a professional waxer. i once had to endure 2 weeks of red itchy bumps and ingrown hair. nasty. get it done PROPERLY.

my friends tell me that with beauty comes PAIN. somehow, to some extent that is true. we push ourselves to the limit at the gym just to get sculpted bodies. we endure botox injections and plastic surgery just to be prettier. we wax, tweeze and inflict pain onto ourselves in the name of beauty. we endure excruciating dental sessions to get perfect teeth. etc etc.

personally, i had endured the most painful sensations ever when i had my nipple pierced and my back tattooed. fyi, getting tattooed along the spine was hel_l on earth. why? just because.

beauty in exchange for pain is not a modern concept. women, a few centuries have had their feet bound, their waists corsetted, their faces slathered in a poisonous paste of lead and egg white (it's called ceruse, perfect for that alabaster glow!), their eyes blurred by belladonna, their necks lengthened, their upper lips deformed by lip plates, etc etc all in the name of beauty.

if beauty = pain, i wonder, is it not better to be ugly? cos after all, isnt pain nature's way to tell the body that something is not quite right? hmmm....

[RamdomChances]

One of my male staff often wears make up, but then again he often wears a skirt as well and ribbons in his hair and has a lovely bright yellow parisol to keep the sun off..........but he can lift a 65kg milk urn onto the back of a pick-up on his own

[PeaceBlondie]

boybrat, your most recent post was very painful. Indeed, pain is the body's alarm bell.

I can see getting facial plastic surgery at an advanced age, since the years do take their toll. But since it's a gradual process, I can't see the righteousness of waiting until age 50 or 60. In fact, I've waited too long.

For me, pain is the limit, and I have a low pain threshold. I never inhaled cigarettes and never got tatoos, mostly for that reason (also for the reasons that I thought tobacco was nasty and stupid, and tatoos were not pretty). Many Thai men have more tatoos than a ship-full of sailors.

Anyway, I don't think it's wrong for men to wear makeup, or to try hard to make themselves look attractive, so long as they don't go to the extremes you mentioned, and so long as they're not so fixated on outside appearance that they neglect their inner self.

Thailand, of course, is very strong on outward appearance.

[ChrisP]

I just shaved my goatee off - after MANY years of having it... I've been told (almost universally) " you look 10 years younger..")

Wow. Instant Plastic Surgery...!!

Love the Thai comments of "Ohh, you so hansum man!"

(and I don't care if they're sincere or not, thanks!)

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

heh heh heh... I wanna see- send me a photo (of the goatee!)

A friend of mine in his 60s, who was generally considered in our group of friends to be pretty good looking for his age, recently got a bit of a nip and tuck around his eyes/cheeks... the effect was quite subtle, and I'm not sure I could really tell the difference- but it made him happier about himself.

"Steven"

[Buki]

hhmmmm.... never had a problem about man-make up. It should be used on the right occassion and the right reason.

[orchis]

hhmmmm.... never had a problem about man-make up. It should be used on the right occassion and the right reason.

Jean-Paul Gaultier has a line for men, it's not make up in the eyeshadow blush lipstick league,

just things to make you bright and up. Not that I would dream using that

[Ijustwannateach]

hhmmmm.... never had a problem about man-make up. It should be used on the right occassion and the right reason.

Ok, I'll bite.

What *IS* the right occasion (and the right reason)?!??

"Steven"

[Buki]

if you are a stage actor or a movie actor, then you would definitely need make-up. For normal folks like us, if you are comfortable in putting on powder on your face, then its not a problem. If you wanted to hide a blemish that is too obvious and you feel that you are too conscious of it, that could be another reason. If you have dark lips, putting on lip balm definitly helps.

And if you are a Gay boy who loves to wear feminite attire, you can't go out of the house wearing no make-up, right? There are plenty of reasons and occassions to put on some man-make up.

I have gay friend (straight acting), who wanted to have the rosy cheek effect on him. He just slathered lipstick on cheeks and Viola! He has himself rosy cheeks.

[toptuan]

To those attracted to masculine-acting and masculine-looking men, wouldn't make-up usually be a sexual turn-off? Make-up seems to "feminize" a male IMHO.

[And by make-up, I'm not referring to something that may hide a major blemish, like a big ugly pimple--I stand guilty as charged of committing the act.]

Our large Thai university just had graduation exercises. Nearly 100% of the male students (about 2000 of them) showed up four hours early for major make-up sessions: hair-do's, foundation, rosy cheeks, subtle eye shadow, subtle but "redder" lips, etc. Number one, I didn't know who they were when I saw them at the ceremony. Number two, they looked like an entire graduating class of ladies, and lady-boys. Not one red-blooded Thai Clint Eastwood* among 'em. To me, total turn-off.

If you like makeup because it "feminizes" a guy, and, ergo, you are more attracted to him, then aren't you really straight? [OK guys, come on, rip me apart... ]

Anyone else share my limited view?

*OK, maybe Old Leather-Face hurts my point, just a little bit.

Edited February 2, 2006 by toptuan

[dukkha]

Yes I am often confused as to why gay men are attracted to pretty, young boys...of course sexual power is often an element in this scenario...many gay men seem to have a problem relating to masculine men who may even be around their own age..lost youth, or maybe much deeper seated psychological goings on are occuring..as a homosexual it would seem one is attracted to same sex...cute, pretty has an element of arrested development to it...underveloped male bodies are a definite turn off to me also..as has often been said in this kind of discourse, if the feminine is your attraction wouldnt it follow that a female be the object of ones desire...but hey we are all polymorphous in this regard and one mans salt is another mans poison...of course there is not the slightest amount of equqality in such relationships nor commonality in any area other than both being able to perform some kind of sexual act, and that, IMHOP, would leave one unfulfilled and in some cases a feeling of emptiness...but do not want to go into any discourse on 'boy love' as am unqualified and unwilling to do so..seems to boil down to sexual relief...a bit sad.. Dukkha

[Ijustwannateach]

I think that's a little unfair, Dukkha. There are many possibilities for dating younger but legal-aged, softer and feminie guys that don't jump to the "power trip" conclusion:

1. A sexual orientation preferring the more feminine types, or a mixture of sexualities.

2. A preference for smaller skinnier guys (for various reasons).

3. Perhaps partly a "parenting" urge (oh, I do hope this will not again be misinterpreted) on the part of someone older with no one to take care of, towards someone younger (but not a juvenile, ok?).

4. A fixation on the type which began at a younger (what I suppose you would regard as a "suitable") age which never changed.

5. An appreciation of their lack of cynicism or any other qualities which characterise the young.

Personally, I've learned that people's "types" are so various and so different that it makes no sense to criticise or imply that one type choice indicates any sort of flaw, developmental block, or immaturity on the part of the lover. One can go to the other end of the spectrum, for instance, and make the pretense that those who prefer all masculine musclely types are insecure mamma's boys who lacked a strong male role model- an idea which is also pseudoscientific BS, in my opinion. I say rejoice in the pluralism, and as long as everyone's staying legal it's no one else's business to judge.

Toptuan, you seem to have a lot of "straight" concerns on this forum...

"Steven"

[dukkha]

Now, I just offered some opinions, I have not made any condemnation or judgement concerning peoples preferences in sexual partners, I have always been attracted to younger men since reaching my late 20's and indeed skinny is my preferred body type...and indeed soft men!!!!!!!!!!

or should I say gentle souls..I am sorry you considered my reply to be unfair IJWT..I thought I just put a few comments, purely my own, in the context of what had been said previoulsy..Who people are attracted to is their business and it is not my right to condemn or judge but I do think I have the right to make comment just as you do and also othe posters do in this forum, I aint no sexual therapist and have had decades of trying to understand who I am and what that means...I take all your points that you enumerated and happily accept your comments on my post, please dont make things difficult especially after receiving such a positive PM from you today...cheers Dukkha

[Buki]

Our large Thai university just had graduation exercises. Nearly 100% of the male students (about 2000 of them) showed up four hours early for major make-up sessions: hair-do's, foundation, rosy cheeks, subtle eye shadow, subtle but "redder" lips, etc. Number one, I didn't know who they were when I saw them at the ceremony. Number two, they looked like an entire graduating class of ladies, and lady-boys. Not one red-blooded Thai Clint Eastwood* among 'em. To me, total turn-off.

In asian nations, graduating from a university or earning a degree is a momentous occassion for the school, for the graduate's family and the graduate himself/herself. Its been constant preparation for tha day and everybody wants to look good. Nobody wants to be caught dead wearing some jeans, shirt, and uncombed hair. You can go to any asian country during graduation rites, all of the graduates are in their best attire and attitude.

However, here in old Siam, they tend to overdo some things (thats what I noticed) so basically, thats pretty normal to them.

[toptuan]

Toptuan, you seem to have a lot of "straight" concerns on this forum...

"Steven"

That's basically correct, Steve, and I hope that doesn't bother you. However, I wouldn't use the slightly perjorative "concerns." There's no real "worry" connected to my posts, and you probably shouldn't read it that way. Even if I had worries, is that a problem? However, I think "fascination" and "exploration" might be better descriptions of my mindset on this matter.

Things were pretty simple back in the homeland, especially with my limited experience there. Conversely, Thailand has unveiled a kaleidoscope of male-to-female varieties that I never dreamed existed: from the lady boy with a female mind and male body who can openly flaunt it without western-type reprocussions, to the macho straight Thai male who ocassionally engages in gay behavior, also without reprocussions and being considered gay by Thai society.

Now, that's fascinating to me, if you don't mind. The use of make-up also brought up the intriguing thought of what masculine/feminine types are attractive to gay men. Now, if this is not the proper forum to bring up these subjects, then please direct me to a more appropriate place, OK?

In asian nations, graduating from a university or earning a degree is a momentous occassion for the school, for the graduate's family and the graduate himself/herself. Its been constant preparation for tha day and everybody wants to look good. Nobody wants to be caught dead wearing some jeans, shirt, and uncombed hair. You can go to any asian country during graduation rites, all of the graduates are in their best attire and attitude.

However, here in old Siam, they tend to overdo some things (thats what I noticed) so basically, thats pretty normal to them.

Buki, that's about the best objective and kindest explanation I've heard from anyone regarding the motivations behind the make-up angle at graduations. Thanks for taking my post at "face" value.

[ChrisP]

I think that Thai guys DO want to look good, and don't have the same polarizing concerns with it making them look "female" that western guys have.. indeed I don't think it even dawns on them.

Btw, back when I was str8 I was attracted to females with a small-frame "boyish" look... Now I'm gay it hasn't strayed that far.. I'm now attracted to guys with a small-frame more "feminine" look...

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

Dukkha, Toptuan, relax, relax. Just shooting the breeze, not serious!

Edited February 3, 2006 by Ijustwannateach

[toptuan]

I think that Thai guys DO want to look good, and don't have the same polarizing concerns with it making them look "female" that western guys have.. indeed I don't think it even dawns on them.

Btw, back when I was str8 I was attracted to females with a small-frame "boyish" look... Now I'm gay it hasn't strayed that far.. I'm now attracted to guys with a small-frame more "feminine" look...

ChrisP

Your comments about the Thai outlook on make-up seem to ring true. It's a western cultural hang up I continue to deal with.

And, yeah, it was fun to "polarize" for the moment for the sake of discussion, and for bringing out people all along the spectrum as you have ably demonstrated in your comment. Amazing the variety of what attracts us all.

IJWT

...Toptuan, relax, relax. Just shooting the breeze, not serious!"

OK, OK I won't report you to Clint or my other macho buddies.

[DUMPSTER]

Material Boys

Some wear make up, some foundation,

Max Factor looks ok

So if they know how to apply and they’re not to shy,

then I won’t walk away

‘Cause we are living in a material world

and they are material boys

you know that we are living in a material world

and they are material boys

Some wear dresses, some wear Gucci,

that’s ok with me.

But if they want the Op and they decide to chop

I don’t want to see

‘Cause we are living in material world..........

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm voting for reason #4 on post #19 here, by IJWT, although any of the reasons can interplay. Most of us fixated our sexual preference model or image during teenage years. Straight men who marry their high school sweetheart, and then find themselves divorced and hunting for a second wife in their 40's, often can't get excited about a middle aged matron.

When I was 13, I was attracted to a prettyboy and had no idea why. Again at 17, I was attracted to a pretty 14 year old boy and couldn't even bring myself to realize that it was a physical attraction. Now we see that as appropriate - that a gay teenager might be attracted to pretty teenage boys - but it's no longer a workable model when you're over 50. Nonetheless, if one comes to certain foreign country, even a legal guy over 22 years old can look very attractive, without being illegal. Then again, you can find those types in West Houston.

[boybrat]

on a rather flippant note, thai guys need to know how to blend their makeup! i often witness ladyboys and made-up boys with faces that are 3 shades lighter than their necks..

apparently, the "pancake", my-makeup-is-so-thick-it-will-crack-when-i-smile look is really popular in bkk. makeup so thick that it has to be removed by gently tapping the circumference of the face with a chisel and a mallet.

LESS is more, boys!

[toptuan]

Likewise, Boybrat, how about the guy who has bleached his face with skin whitening so much that his head looks like a snowman's on top of a Khmer rice farmer's body? And then he accentuates the dead-zombie-look with dark eyeliner/shadow and dark lipstick. It's the "Gothic" or Hallowe'en look, but he doesn't realize it. He thinks he's merely tastefully escaped the curse of the natural tan.

I'm not afraid of Thai ghosts, but I sure get a fright meeting one of THESE bleached apparitions in the middle of the night on a dark soi! It's like the cast of Michael Jackson's "Thriller" has been loosed onto the streets of The Big Mango.

Worse, I couldn't imagine waking up in bed next to "it." My heart ain't that strong.

Signed,

TMO

(Toptuan, Master of Overstatement)

Edited February 4, 2006 by toptuan

[boybrat]

i dont know why many thais hate their natural tans. here i am investing in a salon tan (havent the time to lie in the sun and the tanning salon is within the city), that lasts but a few weeks. and there they are slapping on whitening creams!

i think i have the naturally pale skin that many of these thai boys want. how pale am i? lets just say that you can see every blue vein criss crossing my torso and limbs. and i have very black hair that makes my pale skin look paler. and more often than not, i burn and peel when im out in the sun. without my tan, people often say that i look sick.

i really envy guys who are naturally tan, dammit!