Fiancee Visa Uk, How Long Do I Need To Have Spent With Partner For Success?

[marksg]

Hi,

I am a UK resident, have known my Thai girlfriend / partner for some time. However, I have only spent a few days with her when I went to visit Thailand. Since then we have been in regular contact through video chat, email, phone calls, IM, SMS etc almost every week for the last year and a half, often every day. My plans to go back and visit her were held back partly due to the floods last year and partly due to my work. I am going back to visit her again for 2 weeks next month.

As a full time employee I get 25 days holiday per year and so can only spend a maximum of 4 weeks in Thailand each year. We have applied but were rejected for a visitor visa for my girlfriend to come to the UK for a longer time - we applied for 3 months.

My question is how many visits or how long would I have to have spent physically with my partner to be successful in applying for a fiancee visa ? We were rejected for the visitor visa I think partly on the basis that I had not visited Thailand often enough, though the reasons were not specified in any detail, just that we were rejected. My concern is that the rules for applying for a fiancee visa may be even more strict. Therefore, it may not be possible for us to obtain a fiancee visa if I can only get out to Thailand twice a year for 2 weeks at a time. even though as I say we talk very regularly and I feel closer to her than any partner I have had previously. We have known each other for a year and 6 months now.

Can anyone out there give any guidance on this ? Or has anyone sucessfully applied for a fiancee visa that can tell me how long they were with their partner physically before they applied ? Anyone that has been sucessful after just visiting Thailand with their girlfriend / boyfriend for holidays ?

I would appreciate any advice as for my sake and hers I'd like to know if there is any chance of success going down the fiancee visa route for us, either now or in say a year from now after maybe 2 / 3 more 2 week visits ? We arent ready to marry just yet but we are serious about wanting to be together and build a future. I think we both need to know if we could have a future or if it is just a pipe dream.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Mark.

[meatboy]

going on what info you have posted you are unlikely to get one,first she is not your fiancee as you have not mentioned any future plans,do you send her money if yes make sure you keep proof,do she have a job,any children,if she's not working how is she living and with who there is an awfull lot of info on the subject of tgf.so you should spend some time reading them.

[Sharp]

Gotta be honest looks highly unlikely u r going to get one the UK system is BS it took me 3years of ball ache to get I visa .

Good luck anyhow..

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[marksg]

To answer meatboys questions yes my girlfriend does have a job in Thailand in a hotel. But I don't think that's relevant because as the UK resident sponsor I understand that the UKBA would be looking at my income / work status rather than hers.

The question is whether it will be possible to show that we have a real relationship though we can only spend my holiday time together (4-5 weeks per year).

We are not looking to marry right now, we just need to know whether its a realistic possibility for the future. To us, we do have a very real relationship, as we talk over video, phone and so on so regularly.

Does anyone know of any success stories for couples that have only been able to spend holiday time of 4-5 weeks in a year together ?

Thanks for the reply too Sharp, I'm not just looking for 'yes' answers, 'no' s are also helpful. Just trying to find out other's experiences, ideally hoping to find that somone else out there has been successful.

Edited September 17, 2012 by marksg

[theoldgit]

You've probably read the pinned thread helpfully put together by 7by7 which gives an overview on all things related to various UK Visisa http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/524561-uk-settlement-visa-basics/ Have a read through the various options.

The UKBA do not publish guidlines about what is required to prove the application is genuine as each applicant is judged on the strength of their application and merit. Somebody might give details of their application, as you have asked, but don't use that as a template, as I have indicated every case is decided on it's own merit.

Your girlfriend will need to convince the ECO that your relationship is genuine and subsisting, a fact made harder by the fact that she has been refused a visitors visa.

I would be very surprised if the UKBA didn't give the full reason for the refusal of your girlfiriends visit visa, they normally do. But by applying for a visit visa, which is just for that, and then indicating that she wants to visit for three months, probably led the ECO to suspect that the visit wasn't genuine and she probably wouldn't leave the UK. How many Thai people get three months holiday? you only get 25 days.

[spinkler]

But I don't think that's relevant because as the UK resident sponsor

I gives her a reason to return to Thailand,

3 months in the UK is her employer going to give her 3 months off?

She will need a letter to confirm she will have a job to return too.

It is possible to get a visa but you need to think about it from another point of view:

[marksg]

You've probably read the pinned thread helpfully put together by 7by7 which gives an overview on all things related to various UK Visisa http://www.thaivisa....nt-visa-basics/ Have a read through the various options.

The UKBA do not publish guidlines about what is required to prove the application is genuine as each applicant is judged on the strength of their application and merit. Somebody might give details of their application, as you have asked, but don't use that as a template, as I have indicated every case is decided on it's own merit.

Your girlfriend will need to convince the ECO that your relationship is genuine and subsisting, a fact made harder by the fact that she has been refused a visitors visa.

I would be very surprised if the UKBA didn't give the full reason for the refusal of your girlfiriends visit visa, they normally do. But by applying for a visit visa, which is just for that, and then indicating that she wants to visit for three months, probably led the ECO to suspect that the visit wasn't genuine and she probably wouldn't leave the UK. How many Thai people get three months holiday? you only get 25 days.

Thanks for this you are right in that we did apply for a visitor visa for too long a stay in the UK. We just really wanted to make it a worthwhile length of time rather than just a couple of weeks. She did have a letter from her employer stating that they would allow her to take an extended time off. I also take your point about that each case is judged on individual merits. Our relationship is not strong enoug for us to get engaged yet but I think it could be after spending a couple more trips over to Thailand. Bearing in mind that we are constantly in contact and share everything about our lives. The question is whether spending a short time together would ever be enough for the UKBA ? My worry is that I could spend the next year or two talking to her and going to see her in my holidays, with both of us feeling that the relationship is getting somewhere, only to find that the UKBA rejects a fiancee visa application later on down the line, when we do feel ready to get engaged / married. Basically would they ever accept that you can have a relationship when youre not able to spend much time together ?

[meatboy]

But I don't think that's relevant because as the UK resident sponsor

I gives her a reason to return to Thailand,

3 months in the UK is her employer going to give her 3 months off?

She will need a letter to confirm she will have a job to return too.

It is possible to get a visa but you need to think about it from another point of view:

+1 a job is totally relevant,i have 30yrs.experiance of thai relationships been married 22yrs.same one so all the advice you are given dont brush it under the carpet like it or not.

[marksg]

But I don't think that's relevant because as the UK resident sponsor

I gives her a reason to return to Thailand,

3 months in the UK is her employer going to give her 3 months off?

She will need a letter to confirm she will have a job to return too.

It is possible to get a visa but you need to think about it from another point of view:

+1 a job is totally relevant,i have 30yrs.experiance of thai relationships been married 22yrs.same one so all the advice you are given dont brush it under the carpet like it or not.

Sorry I'm not meaning to undermine your advice, but I'm talking about what would happen if we were to apply for a Fiancee visa, so as my future wife the intention would be for her to remain in the UK, not to return to Thailand. The question I'm asking is specifically about the length of time we would have had to have spent together for the UKBA to consider it a genuine relationship. I appreciate your points about income / work but its not what I'm asking. Thanks anyway.

Edited September 17, 2012 by marksg

[VisasPlus]

But I don't think that's relevant because as the UK resident sponsor

I gives her a reason to return to Thailand,

3 months in the UK is her employer going to give her 3 months off?

She will need a letter to confirm she will have a job to return too.

It is possible to get a visa but you need to think about it from another point of view:

+1 a job is totally relevant,i have 30yrs.experiance of thai relationships been married 22yrs.same one so all the advice you are given dont brush it under the carpet like it or not.

Sorry I'm not meaning to undermine your advice, but I'm talking about what would happen if we were to apply for a Fiancee visa, so as my future wife the intention would be for her to remain in the UK, not to return to Thailand. The question I'm asking is specifically about the lenght of time we would have had to have spent together for the UKBA to consider it a genuine relationship. I apreciate your points about income / work but its not what I'm asking. Thanks anyway.

Firstly, it is strange that UKBA seemingly work against the governments stated intention to reduce the net migration figures ( that is, basically, the number of people who come to settle in the UK each year). By refusing visit visas to genuine visitors ( and we are dealing with other applicants in the same position as you) UKBA are virtually forcing couples to marry and seek settlement visas. This works directly against the government's stated policies.

That said, as theoldgit has explained, there is no set time on the length of any relationship that qualifies the applicant to be able to obtain a settlement visa. Each relationship is different. The requirements are, basically, that you have met, and that you intend to marry. You will need to show that you have made some enquiries and/or plans to marry in the UK. Contacting a Register Office for information could be considered adequate, but I would suggest making more effort than that. You also have to fulfill the financial requirements, accommodation, etc, and your fiancee will need to pass an A1 level English test and a TB test. You will need to show continued contact during the time you have known each other.

If you look at others in your position, in other parts of the world, some couples may only have met once, in arranged marriages for instance. There will be no history of contact, maybe no photos, no emails, etc. This does not mean that the relationship is not genuine, nor does it mean that the proposed marriage will not take place. The ECO has to assess each application on the information and background provided. Despite what others have said here, I think that if you can show visits to your girlfriend, continued contact when you are apart ( limited by the fact that UKBA refused to allow your girlfriend to visit you in the UK ), sufficient income and accommodation, then I don't see why you cannot submit a good application.

Edited September 17, 2012 by VisasPlus

[marksg]

But I don't think that's relevant because as the UK resident sponsor

I gives her a reason to return to Thailand,

3 months in the UK is her employer going to give her 3 months off?

She will need a letter to confirm she will have a job to return too.

It is possible to get a visa but you need to think about it from another point of view:

+1 a job is totally relevant,i have 30yrs.experiance of thai relationships been married 22yrs.same one so all the advice you are given dont brush it under the carpet like it or not.

Sorry I'm not meaning to undermine your advice, but I'm talking about what would happen if we were to apply for a Fiancee visa, so as my future wife the intention would be for her to remain in the UK, not to return to Thailand. The question I'm asking is specifically about the lenght of time we would have had to have spent together for the UKBA to consider it a genuine relationship. I apreciate your points about income / work but its not what I'm asking. Thanks anyway.

Firstly, it is strange that UKBA seemingly work against the governments stated intention to reduce the net migration figures ( that is, basically, the number of people who come to settle in the UK each year). By refusing visit visas to genuine visitors ( and we are dealing with other applicants in the same position as you) UKBA are virtually forcing couples to marry and seek settlement visas. This works directly against the government's stated policies.

That said, as theoldgit has explained, there is no set time on the length of any relationship that qualifies the applicant to be able to obtain a settlement visa. Each relationship is different. The requirements are, basically, that you have met, and that you intend to marry. You will need to show that you have made some enquiries and/or plans to marry in the UK. Contacting a Register Office for information could be considered adequate, but I would suggest making more effort than that. You also have to fulfill the financial requirements, accommodation, etc, and your fiancee will need to pass an A1 level English test and a TB test. You will need to show continued contact during the time you have known each other.

If you look at others in your position, in other parts of the world, some couples may only have met once, in arranged marriages for instance. There will be no history of contact, maybe no photos, no emails, etc. This does not mean that the relationship is not genuine, nor does it mean that the proposed marriage will not take place. The ECO has to assess each application on the information and background provided. Despite what others have said here, I think that if you can show visits to your girlfriend, continued contact when you are apart ( limited by the fact that UKBA refused to allow your girlfriend to visit you in the UK ), sufficient income and accommodation, then I don't see why you cannot submit a good application.

Thankyou for your response, that does help a great deal. And youre right. it does feel like we have to overcommit in order to be together at all. It doesn't seem like there is an option for us to be together for an extended time while abiding by the immigration rules. If we want to make a go of it, we have to get engaged / marry before really having a chance to test our relationship, we aren't even allowed a normal length engagement. My brother was with his now wife for 10 years before they got married, but its not possible for us. I definitely wouldn't want to push my girlfriend into marriage before she's ready. At the same time its hard for us to be apart, and I'm struggling to see any other way for us to be together. My biggest fear is that she is wasting her time on me, I just hope that it doesn't turn out to be the case. Thanks again for your useful advice regarding the other requirements too.

Edited September 17, 2012 by marksg

[7by7]

I would be very surprised if the UKBA didn't give the full reason for the refusal of your girlfiriends visit visa, they normally do

Indeed, and without knowing what that refusal notice says, it is impossible to comment with any accuracy on the reasons for her refusal; let alone advise on how to overcome them.

You haven't even said why she was refused.

As VisasPlus says, for a fiance, or spouse, visa there is no minimum time you must have spent together; only that you have met. Although you will need to show that you are in a genuine relationship.

But; a fiance visa is a settlement visa Applying for one means that you are committed to each other and that you intend to marry within the life of the visa, 6 months, and then apply to settle in the UK together. You don't seem ready for that yet.

From what you have said, a visit by her is the better option. If you can post a copy of her visit refusal notice, deleting names and other identifying information, then we can advise on how to overcome the reason(s) for her previous refusal.

[VisasPlus]

I would be very surprised if the UKBA didn't give the full reason for the refusal of your girlfiriends visit visa, they normally do

Indeed, and without knowing what that refusal notice says, it is impossible to comment with any accuracy on the reasons for her refusal; let alone advise on how to overcome them.

You haven't even said why she was refused.

As VisasPlus says, for a fiance, or spouse, visa there is no minimum time you must have spent together; only that you have met. Although you will need to show that you are in a genuine relationship.

But; a fiance visa is a settlement visa Applying for one means that you are committed to each other and that you intend to marry within the life of the visa, 6 months, and then apply to settle in the UK together. You don't seem ready for that yet.

From what you have said, a visit by her is the better option. If you can post a copy of her visit refusal notice, deleting names and other identifying information, then we can advise on how to overcome the reason(s) for her previous refusal.

All agreed, 7x7, but the fact that a visit visa was refused should not make any difference to a fiancee visa application, as paragraph A320 of the immigration rules applies (assuming that no deception, with aggravating circumstances, was employed in the visit application, of course).

I agree that it would be interesting, and useful, to see the visit visa refusal reasons, though.

[marksg]

I would be very surprised if the UKBA didn't give the full reason for the refusal of your girlfiriends visit visa, they normally do

Indeed, and without knowing what that refusal notice says, it is impossible to comment with any accuracy on the reasons for her refusal; let alone advise on how to overcome them.

You haven't even said why she was refused.

As VisasPlus says, for a fiance, or spouse, visa there is no minimum time you must have spent together; only that you have met. Although you will need to show that you are in a genuine relationship.

But; a fiance visa is a settlement visa Applying for one means that you are committed to each other and that you intend to marry within the life of the visa, 6 months, and then apply to settle in the UK together. You don't seem ready for that yet.

From what you have said, a visit by her is the better option. If you can post a copy of her visit refusal notice, deleting names and other identifying information, then we can advise on how to overcome the reason(s) for her previous refusal.

All agreed, 7x7, but the fact that a visit visa was refused should not make any difference to a fiancee visa application, as paragraph A320 of the immigration rules applies (assuming that no deception, with aggravating circumstances, was employed in the visit application, of course).

I agree that it would be interesting, and useful, to see the visit visa refusal reasons, though.

We did actually get a statement showing why we were rejected for the visitor visa, it was a while ago so I had to dig it up. You will probably all think it was a schoolboy error. Basically we were both new to the process and didn't know what to provide, although we provided everything that was listed on the UKBA website. They rejected us for the visitor visa because we hadnt proved how long we had spent together or how we met. We had only sent a couple of undated photos of us together. They said that there was nothing to show how often I had visited Thailand (only once so far) they also said that we had failed to proved ongoing contact, as we hadnt sent in any copies of our correspondence, emails phone calls etc. (schoolboy error I know that now). I hadn't realised at the time that there was no way to send in further information if its was lacking and also no way to appeal. I actually had reams of emails / phone records but there was no way to send them in after the application. Now I know better, but anyway the basic jist was that we hadnt proved our relationship. So my worry now is whether I will be able to spend enough time with my partner to ever qualify for a fiancee visa. Because as mentioned before i can only visit in the holidays.

Edited September 17, 2012 by marksg

[bobrussell]

You have to demonstrate an on-going relationship, not justify the type of relationship. That to a large degree is none of their business.

It seems from what you have said that a fiancee visa may not be appropriate at this stage. Include this comment in your sponsor letter.

You do need to provide the basics - how you met, type, extent and evidence of contact. Perhaps be more realistic about length of visit intended and get written confirmation that this is OK with the employer!

The applicant does need to demonstrate 'reason to return'. A job helps, property there can be invaluable but explaining that you don't want to prejudise a possible future visa cannot hurt.

A rejected visit visa is not the end of the world and a further visa application in a few months time with more detailed evidence may be better received. Money transfers etc should be clearly documented where appropriate!

My (now) wife had her first visit visa application rejected years ago, not least because I expected it to be straight forward and was not properly prepared!

[7by7]

From what you have said, you made several, as you put it, schoolboy errors in her application. Most to do with evidence of your relationship.

Correct those errors, i.e. deal with everything in the refusal notice, and she should not have a problem with a visit visa.

Have a look at UK Visit Visa Basics and the links in there.

So my worry now is whether I will be able to spend enough time with my partner to ever qualify for a fiancee visa.

As has been said to you already, there is no set time you need to have known each other before applying for a fiance visa, nor is there a minimum time you must have spent together. The only condition in that regard is that you must have met.

The ECOs are well aware of the difficulties in long distance relationships. In you situation evidence of regular contact while you are apart is more important than the actual amount of time spent together.

But don't apply for a fiance visa because you think it will be easier to get than a visit visa. Apply for a fiance visa because you both want to marry and live together in the UK.

[marksg]

From what you have said, you made several, as you put it, schoolboy errors in her application. Most to do with evidence of your relationship.

Correct those errors, i.e. deal with everything in the refusal notice, and she should not have a problem with a visit visa.

Have a look at UK Visit Visa Basics and the links in there.

So my worry now is whether I will be able to spend enough time with my partner to ever qualify for a fiancee visa.

As has been said to you already, there is no set time you need to have known each other before applying for a fiance visa, nor is there a minimum time you must have spent together. The only condition in that regard is that you must have met.

The ECOs are well aware of the difficulties in long distance relationships. In you situation evidence of regular contact while you are apart is more important than the actual amount of time spent together.

But don't apply for a fiance visa because you think it will be easier to get than a visit visa. Apply for a fiance visa because you both want to marry and live together in the UK.

Thats encouraging, thankyou. And absolutely, neither of us would want to marry (in the future) for any other reason than its what we may want to do. We aren't ready yet, both of us know that.

Edited September 17, 2012 by marksg

[RAZZELL]

Take the advice of 7by7 and Visaplus.

Get another trip under your belt, get the information required and apply for a visit visa.

I went down the fiancee visa route after my now wife came to visit for 3 months.

RAZZ

[marksg]

Take the advice of 7by7 and Visaplus.

Get another trip under your belt, get the information required and apply for a visit visa.

I went down the fiancee visa route after my now wife came to visit for 3 months.

RAZZ

Good advice, Thankyou Razz I'm actually going back very soon, looking forward to it.

[7by7]

One more thing.

When the time comes for you to marry and she to settle in the UK it would be better, in my opinion, to marry in Thailand and for her to apply as your spouse. Entering as a fiance means she will need to make an extra application known as Further Leave to Remain after you have married, at a current cost of £561 by post, which can take 3 to 6 months to process, or £867 in person for a same day decision. These fees increase each April. Also, entering as a fiance means she cannot work until she has FLR, entering as a spouse means she can work immediately should she want to.

See UK Settlement Visa Basics for more details.

I appreciate, though, that you may have firm reasons for marrying in the UK rather than Thailand, and that the extra cost may be worth it to you.

[RAZZELL]

I did the exact opposite.

The gf/fiancee came to the UK and we married here.

Horses for courses and all that

RAZZ

[marksg]

Think I would prefer to get married in the UK too if / when the time comes. But agree horses for courses. Thanks again both for your advice

Very glad I posted to this forum, some great advice. Also its a relief that there are people out there who've managed to get through the red tape nightmare !

[David48]

Think I would prefer to get married in the UK too if ...

Hi there Mark. 7by7 gave you some wise words indeed and the concept marrying in Thailand when that time is right for both of you is good advice.

The reasons and logic are plentiful and go beyond what has been advised so far.

Thai Visa is a great resourse, not only because of the great advice you can recive by well intended members here but also of their life experiences.

May I warmly suggest that you have a read of the Marriage and Divorce Forum as there are some relevant topics and life stories there to read.

[marksg]

Think I would prefer to get married in the UK too if ...

Hi there Mark. 7by7 gave you some wise words indeed and the concept marrying in Thailand when that time is right for both of you is good advice.

The reasons and logic are plentiful and go beyond what has been advised so far.

Thai Visa is a great resourse, not only because of the great advice you can recive by well intended members here but also of their life experiences.

May I warmly suggest that you have a read of the Marriage and Divorce Forum as there are some relevant topics and life stories there to read.

It is a separate topic but I'm curious to know why you think that marrying in Thailand would be better ? 7by7 mentioned that the process would be easier from a visa point of view, basically less applications. But to be brutally honest my biggest concern would be which gives me the best protection of my property legally in the event we split up. It is a completely separate issue though, so probably should be a separate post. And thanks I will check the other sections of the website. But I am interested in your reasons why you think marrying in Thailand would be better than marrying in the UK ?

Edited September 17, 2012 by marksg

[TommoPhysicist]

It is a separate topic but I'm curious to know why you think that marrying in Thailand would be better ? 7by7 mentioned that the process would be easier from a visa point of view, basically less applications. But to be brutally honest my biggest concern would be which gives me the best protection of my property legally in the event we split up. It is a completely separate issue though, so probably should be a separate post. And thanks I will check the other sections of the website. But I am interested in your reasons why you think marrying in Thailand would be better than marrying in the UK ?

Neither will give any protection to your property.

If you move her into your house in the UK, she will soon be entitled. (You brought her to the UK, you have to house her)

If she has a child, it will become hers and the kids home, and not yours. (In the UK having kids cancels pre-nups)

Edited September 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[marksg]

It is a separate topic but I'm curious to know why you think that marrying in Thailand would be better ? 7by7 mentioned that the process would be easier from a visa point of view, basically less applications. But to be brutally honest my biggest concern would be which gives me the best protection of my property legally in the event we split up. It is a completely separate issue though, so probably should be a separate post. And thanks I will check the other sections of the website. But I am interested in your reasons why you think marrying in Thailand would be better than marrying in the UK ?

Neither will give any protection to your property.

If you move her into your house in the UK, she will soon be entitled. (You brought her to the UK, you have to house her)

If she has a child, it will become hers and the kids home, and not yours. (In the UK having kids cancels pre-nups)

I'm not sure its quite as simple as that, but you're right of course there are many pitfalls. Don't really want to turn this into a divorce thread, but at the same time I think its sensible to think about what could happen if things go wrong, for my sake and hers. Also, I think the law might change in the UK soon with regard to pre-nups but remains to be seen.

[TommoPhysicist]

I'm not sure its quite as simple as that, but you're right of course there are many pitfalls. Don't really want to turn this into a divorce thread, but at the same time I think its sensible to think about what could happen if things go wrong, for my sake and hers. Also, I think the law might change in the UK soon with regard to pre-nups but remains to be seen.

The way to protect your assets are, never take the girl out of Thailand (she can't get a visa to access UK courts on her own, at the moment)

Never tell her what you have or where you have it. (never admit to having house, savings, investments to any possible partner)

Only rent property in Thailand,or if you must, buy car or condo in your name before marriage..

[theoldgit]

No this is not a divorce thread so let's keep it on track guys.

I will remove posts that go off topic.

[David48]

But I am interested in your reasons why you think marrying in Thailand would be better than marrying in the UK ?

As the Mod theoldgit suggests wisely, divorce ... it's a valid but different question for another Forum.

Hence my suggestion to read the Marriage and Divorce Forum as there is a wealth of experience and some stories worth reading.

We never want things to go astray in relationships and I am sure all of us here wish you the best with your current Beau ... I know I do, but it's nice to have a wider perspective on relationships through their full cycle.

[marksg]

But I am interested in your reasons why you think marrying in Thailand would be better than marrying in the UK ?

As the Mod theoldgit suggests wisely, divorce ... it's a valid but different question for another Forum.

Hence my suggestion to read the Marriage and Divorce Forum as there is a wealth of experience and some stories worth reading.

We never want things to go astray in relationships and I am sure all of us here wish you the best with your current Beau ... I know I do, but it's nice to have a wider perspective on relationships through their full cycle.

Thanks David, yes appreciate you saying that because actually the reason for my posting in the first place was for advice on how we can plan to be together, not the other way around. But I do appreciate all the comments and advice that people have made here.

Edited September 18, 2012 by marksg