Britons Avoid Surat Thani After Killing

[Annemerel]

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.

When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

agreed.

it needs a complete overhaul.

i know two large family groups from the uk , they visited samui early january for two weeks , stayed at a large resort hotel , they said they would never go back. the hotel experience and the beach were wonderful , but once they stepped outside of the hotel the enjoyment ended.

the public transport system

the taxi drivers

the dump that is called chaweng.

the bigger dump that is called lamai

the scruffiness and filth

the poor service

the surliness and unfriendliness of the thais in the street markets and the shoddy tat they try to sell.

the total lack of any sense of aesthetics about development.

the car hire company that tried to charge them for the repair to the car when it failed to start.

the dangerous driving and road system

the padding of bills on three occasions restaurants , and the problems in correcting the restaurants mistakes.

these people like to spend and enjoy , but check all bills and will not tolerate sleazy rip offs.

that's 12 high end tourists who wont return , and you can bet that they will tell many many others about their thai samui experience.

its not only the crime that will make people wary of visiting.

[Malice in Wonderland]

Of course business is down compared to last year;we haven't got a giant influx of Tsunami-affected tourists that we had last year!!!!! Business appears to be exactly on par with the same time two years ago....

P.S. Any chance we can have posts from residents in samui a different colour ?? That way I wouldn't have to sift through all the c**p from people who obviously don't know what they're talking about......

[womble]

Well what can I say, Samui certainly deserves to suffer for the complete lack of thought of infrastructure and the attitude of some of the locals.

however, All flights to the Island are extremely booked up and accomodation is also very full. I have discussed and shown this thread to friends on the island and no-one believes the figure. Most people are reporting record earnings from their businesses and there certainly seems to be no lcack of Brits about.

Could it be that someone has taken the initiative and made this report in the hope that the powers that be sort out these problems before tourists really do stop coming???

Also i'm surprised no-one else has thought of this but... Brits make up the highest percentage of visitors to the Island. don't forget this event happened one month ago. If 30% of the highest proportion of nationality visitor cancelled then there would be seats on planes and many rooms vacant. This is not the case, and it certainly isn't because other nationalities have taken there place. If so that would mean if the murder hadn't happened then there would be a huge rise in visitor numbers, so high infact that it would make last years influx of tourists after the tsunami look small.

Think about the timescale and the figures, then decide for yourselves how acurate this report is.

[sbk]

Well what can I say, Samui certainly deserves to suffer for the complete lack of thought of infrastructure

Infrastructure decision making is made by the Provincial Government, not the local government and allocation of funds is made based on the number of registered residents. A huge percentage of the Thai people living on Koh Samui are unregistered, preferring to stay registered in their home provinces. Thus they are using infrastructure beyond its registered capacity.

If you would like to blame someone for the lack of infrastructure spending you could start with the Provinciall government that refuses to disburse money based on a real census count of ALL people living on Koh Samui (thais and foreigners) and instead bases it on an outdated list of people registered in the Tabien Bahn.

The true fact of the matter is that local Samui government would like to become its own province along with Phangan and Tao thus using their own tax money on their own infrastructure instead of seeing their tax money head to the mainland to build magnificent roads to nowhere. But, this is just a pipedream as long as non-local Thais refuse to register on the Tabien Bahn.

[womble]

Well what can I say, Samui certainly deserves to suffer for the complete lack of thought of infrastructure

Infrastructure decision making is made by the Provincial Government, not the local government and allocation of funds is made based on the number of registered residents. A huge percentage of the Thai people living on Koh Samui are unregistered, preferring to stay registered in their home provinces. Thus they are using infrastructure beyond its registered capacity.

If you would like to blame someone for the lack of infrastructure spending you could start with the Provinciall government that refuses to disburse money based on a real census count of ALL people living on Koh Samui (thais and foreigners) and instead bases it on an outdated list of people registered in the Tabien Bahn.

The true fact of the matter is that local Samui government would like to become its own province along with Phangan and Tao thus using their own tax money on their own infrastructure instead of seeing their tax money head to the mainland to build magnificent roads to nowhere. But, this is just a pipedream as long as non-local Thais refuse to register on the Tabien Bahn.

Well.........

You are right in what you say, not enough money is given to the island, and the lack of registration is ofcourse a large factor in this, however..............

Funds have actually been given for countless projects which are eigher never finished or constructed to such a low standard they are useless.

and why is this?

Yup good old fasioned corruption!

And whilst creating a Samui province would channel larger amounts of much needed funds I just wonder how much will go into projects instead of certain peoples pockets.

[womble]

What you mention is but a small part of a very complex problem, it goes much deeper than the simple registration of migrant workers. This is the story peddled by back slapping local press such as Community magazine and local civil servants.

If every migrant worker living on Samui registered tomorow I bet you wouldn't really see much change in in a year or two by the time the supposed funds have trickled down. If that was the case then the government could have a serious crackdown on all those that havn't registered as it is in fact law to do so. They havn't bothered because they know that isn't the real root of the problem.

Edited February 1, 2006 by womble

[raybkk]

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.

When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

agreed.

it needs a complete overhaul.

i know two large family groups from the uk , they visited samui early january for two weeks , stayed at a large resort hotel , they said they would never go back. the hotel experience and the beach were wonderful , but once they stepped outside of the hotel the enjoyment ended.

the public transport system

the taxi drivers

the dump that is called chaweng.

the bigger dump that is called lamai

the scruffiness and filth

the poor service

the surliness and unfriendliness of the thais in the street markets and the shoddy tat they try to sell.

the total lack of any sense of aesthetics about development.

the car hire company that tried to charge them for the repair to the car when it failed to start.

the dangerous driving and road system

the padding of bills on three occasions restaurants , and the problems in correcting the restaurants mistakes.

these people like to spend and enjoy , but check all bills and will not tolerate sleazy rip offs.

that's 12 high end tourists who wont return , and you can bet that they will tell many many others about their thai samui experience.

its not only the crime that will make people wary of visiting.

I totally agree with you there. My mom came to Bangkok for her yearly holiday and since she hasn’t been to Samui for 8 years so she decided to go over and have a look as she remembered the beauty from 8 years ago. Although I told her that things had changed and it isn’t like it was anymore she still went and booked a flight.

She stayed at the Hotel Group I work for and she really enjoyed her stay there. However after having visited the Chaweng Beach Rd., she was shocked to find what happened. She called it a circus, however not a temporary one but the Blackpool of Thailand. (she is Dutch).

[sriracha john]

SURAT THANI: -- The brutal rape and murder of 21-year-old Welsh student Katherine Horton on Koh Samui has caused a 30 per cent drop in the number of British tourists visiting Surat Thani province this year, according to the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

Think about the timescale and the figures, then decide for yourselves how acurate this report is.

Oh my Gosh!! How can you impugn the rock-solid and highly respected nature of the TAT?? Don’t they always provide the most honest and truthful and accurate and reliable dissemination of travel figures??

They would never falsely pad tourism numbers nor under-report them. They are always above board and their statistics are beyond reproach…. I’m saddened and dismayed they could be so easily sullied.

[Johpa]

OK, Britons begin to avoid Samui, but there are still plenty of Yanks, German, Aussies, and others to fill this minor void of people who enjoy international tourist ghettos where there is a beach, some sun and warm temps and ample opportunity to drink, carouse, and copulate.

And Pattaya becomes annexed by Bangkok and slowly becomes more business oriented although I have still never visited the planet's largest seaside brothel. Phuket becomes the new Pattaya, although for some unknown reason avoids the worst excesses. Samui morphs into what Pattaya was, and still is a bit, with a similar degree of filth and corrruption. Koh Phanga changes into what Samui was 15 years ago, a getaway from the unadventurous backpacker with Koh Tao not far behind.

But Samui always seems to be the worst case of Paradise Lost.

[damian5000]

Wanted to quote some statistics from the Las Vegas Weekly. In 2005 there were 180 homicides investigated in all of Las Vegas, Nevada. That's an average of 1 every other day. And, only 63% of the total Las Vegas homicides had an arrest warrant issued. I'm not sure how these numbers compare to the statistics of cities in Thailand, but those numbers just blew me away. Here in Vegas you can kill somebody and have an almost 40% chance of never even having a warrant put out, let alone be arrested and convicted.

- Damian

Edited February 1, 2006 by damian5000

[sbk]

What you mention is but a small part of a very complex problem, it goes much deeper than the simple registration of migrant workers. This is the story peddled by back slapping local press such as Community magazine and local civil servants.

If every migrant worker living on Samui registered tomorow I bet you wouldn't really see much change in in a year or two by the time the supposed funds have trickled down. If that was the case then the government could have a serious crackdown on all those that havn't registered as it is in fact law to do so. They havn't bothered because they know that isn't the real root of the problem.

Yes, but to blame the local government for lack of funding for the infrastructure is patently absurd. I have lived on Phangan for 17 years and have watched our taxes get siphoned off to the mainland. There are some really great roads to the middle of nowhere serving god knows how many people in Surat Thani when Koh Phangan still does not have a sewage system, adequate water supplies, decent garbage collection, adequate power supply or up to date phone lines.

[Pepe']

Had a wonderful Christmas and New Year Holiday on Samui this year in all departments!!!

Found outstading Italian food at Via Via in Chaweng.

Got talking with the owner about the old days being raised in an Italian family.

Fresh pasta and thre Sambucas on the house after dinner.

Can't wait to go back...

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I'm skipping some reality here on the narrative. The following sentence says......

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

Well, sex is a very complex subject and I want to make it clear that I adore this country and particularly the women, but I only have a couple of Thai male friends after many years of living here. It's so tough to make genuine friendships, although they are valuable if achieved. I challenge most occidentals to be honest about how many male Thai friends they have and if none why? It's because in the main they are not very warm. That said Thai guys who are cool do keep themselves to themselves.

However for whatever reason(s) this is also the country where I sometimes wonder what short circuit is wired in the cortex for the guys who manage or work on the periphery of the prostitution trade. OK it's a 'money' short circuit but the evidence is on the streets. Thai men are largely unbothered by any exposure to intrusive intimacy, nudity, sexual acts and unrestrained commercialisation of their sisters bodies to foreign men. Money and the culture of using women for recreational purposes in their own environment might be responsible for the absence of deep seated hostility. To make matters worse Thai women who work in the trade loathe them for reasons I don't think it would be appropriate for foreigners to discuss.

By coincidence I clarified this last night when I asked a very good Thai female friend why 30-40% of taxi drivers seem impossible to win over no matter how courteous or patient one is. It had never occured to me that an Occidental with a good command of Thai and knowledge of the routes has immediately just dropped some 50% in value as a gullible fare. Those are her words not mine. I was so ready for jealousy and resentment to be the reason.

So I have to say the obvious. This country is crawling with what I view as the loosest of feet and the freest of fancy women, possibly in the world. It's also largely through choice not circumstance. It's a lifestyle decision one that should be discussed in a more mature context, but again, it's sex and the irrational descends on the subject.

But to suggest that Caucasian women 'set a bad example' is an extraordinarily mono directional view of the world. I can see how the reasoning starts off but c'mon... A grip is needed.

I guess it's a tangential topic to the original post, but it's one I'm itching to find intelligent views on and maybe even learn a few things.

You appear to have misunderstood my meaning. That is probably due to my style of writing.

I wasn't implying that the female tourist's behaviour was improper.

The implication is that a certain type of male may see her as fair game. For instance, sitting and chatting and having a drink with a Thai male may be viewed as an invitation...

I'm not trying to insult anyone. We choose to travel to Thailand, so we should inform overselves and others of what to expect.

That's why we are here.

[Malice in Wonderland]

Yes, but to blame the local government for lack of funding for the infrastructure is patently absurd.

Sorry but I must disagree - I recently stumbled on a copy of the "Community Magazine" from circa mid 2003; within it there was an article about a meeting held by the local government acknowledging that Samui's biggest problem for funding was the non-registration of migrant workers.The article goes on to state that officials would go door to door seeking formal registration so that governmental and financial autonomy could be sought from Surrathani Province.

What has happened since 2003 ??? Have the men with clipboards got lost round the ring road????

Surrathani Province are rubbing their hands all the way to the bank every year Samui fails to be able to tell them how many people actually live here....

Nobody elses fault except their own IMHO

[sriracha john]

What has happened since 2003 ??? Have the men with clipboards got lost round the ring road????

They were too busy during 2003-2004 updating identification information for 2,500-plus

un-investigated, non-judicial execution murders during the

"Plant-YaBa-On-Anyone-You-Want- Killed" governmental program.

The on-topic question to ask is... As a precedence to it's current crimes, how many of those 2,500+ murders occured within the confines of Surat Thani Province?

[phibunmike]

I keep wondering when Isaan will receive its share of visitors.

shhhhhh...........

[charlesfrith]

I'm skipping some reality here on the narrative. The following sentence says......

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

Well, sex is a very complex subject and I want to make it clear that I adore this country and particularly the women, but I only have a couple of Thai male friends after many years of living here. It's so tough to make genuine friendships, although they are valuable if achieved. I challenge most occidentals to be honest about how many male Thai friends they have and if none why? It's because in the main they are not very warm. That said Thai guys who are cool do keep themselves to themselves.

However for whatever reason(s) this is also the country where I sometimes wonder what short circuit is wired in the cortex for the guys who manage or work on the periphery of the prostitution trade. OK it's a 'money' short circuit but the evidence is on the streets. Thai men are largely unbothered by any exposure to intrusive intimacy, nudity, sexual acts and unrestrained commercialisation of their sisters bodies to foreign men. Money and the culture of using women for recreational purposes in their own environment might be responsible for the absence of deep seated hostility. To make matters worse Thai women who work in the trade loathe them for reasons I don't think it would be appropriate for foreigners to discuss.

By coincidence I clarified this last night when I asked a very good Thai female friend why 30-40% of taxi drivers seem impossible to win over no matter how courteous or patient one is. It had never occured to me that an Occidental with a good command of Thai and knowledge of the routes has immediately just dropped some 50% in value as a gullible fare. Those are her words not mine. I was so ready for jealousy and resentment to be the reason.

So I have to say the obvious. This country is crawling with what I view as the loosest of feet and the freest of fancy women, possibly in the world. It's also largely through choice not circumstance. It's a lifestyle decision one that should be discussed in a more mature context, but again, it's sex and the irrational descends on the subject.

But to suggest that Caucasian women 'set a bad example' is an extraordinarily mono directional view of the world. I can see how the reasoning starts off but c'mon... A grip is needed.

I guess it's a tangential topic to the original post, but it's one I'm itching to find intelligent views on and maybe even learn a few things.

You appear to have misunderstood my meaning. That is probably due to my style of writing.

I wasn't implying that the female tourist's behaviour was improper.

The implication is that a certain type of male may see her as fair game. For instance, sitting and chatting and having a drink with a Thai male may be viewed as an invitation...

I'm not trying to insult anyone. We choose to travel to Thailand, so we should inform overselves and others of what to expect.

That's why we are here.

I apologise. It seems I did take your post out of context. Thanks for clarifying the point.

Rgds

c.

[Boomee]

Wow this topic certainly got people talking.Ive got a friend who has been liveing there for about 3yrs,he was going to open a business there but relized that Thailand is changeing for the worst,so he's going back to the UK.It's a shame that the Thai's are so money hungry,I think that whats going on in Samui will be country wide,no tourists means no money,no money means hungry people.

[cutter007]

Nothing would make me happier than to see Samui's economy colapse. It is an island full of gangsters, and the police are nothing more than their lackeys. The island has been going into the gutter for years and it is a shame because it is a beautiful place. som nam na samui.

[sriracha john]

Wow this topic certainly got people talking.Ive got a friend who has been liveing there for about 3yrs,he was going to open a business there but relized that Thailand is changeing for the worst,so he's going back to the UK.It's a shame that the Thai's are so money hungry,I think that whats going on in Samui will be country wide,no tourists means no money,no money means hungry people.

You started ... but keep it going ... extrapolating the scenario to the logical end...

hungery people means...... desperation???

desperation means...... ?????

[Johpa]

Nothing would make me happier than to see Samui's economy colapse. It is an island full of gangsters, and the police are nothing more than their lackeys. The island has been going into the gutter for years and it is a shame because it is a beautiful place. som nam na samui.

So perhaps we just wait for Samui to catch up with the rest of Thailand where the police are the gangsters and the gangsters are the lackeys of the police?

[the_webninja]

I Plan on Moving to that Island to Live in the next few years. Once I am there I will do everything I can to contribute to the Security of the area. If anyone wants to speed the process up a little they could give me Job over there. I feel like Thailand should grant me a Long Term Visa just for my willingness to make a positive contribution to the place. I could have helped out in the Tsunami efforts too. How many things have to happen before they do something to get a Quality Guy like me in Country?

Hey you never know, I might radiate such awesome Karma that the Muslims in the South migth Flee the Country at the News I was in Town.

[sriracha john]

Will the Labour Ministry issue a work permit for a job title of:

Dreamer

??

if so, you'll likely fit in rather nicely.

[bobfla]

TIT or TIFT

12 years ago was my first visit to Thailand and that was three weeks of hel_l in Pattaya. Just on the of leaving, an elderly & charming Thai explained that Pattaya was Farang-land and not the real Thailand. He went on to suggest that I visited Koh Samui before I left. Promptly falling in love with the place and the islanders, I’ve returned there 2 & 3 times a year. However first came McDonalds then an ATM on every street corner. Meter cabs……what a laugh, just 6 traffic cops to police 350+ of this mafia gang. As an elderly, obese, disabled guy, the cabs stop, open a door and say “500 Baht” and not “where are you going?” My usual response is ‘baba-babore’ and to f**** off! This literally leaves me a prisoner in my resort, just next to a renowned health resort, and on the other side, with the most awful 24 hour restaurant bar (that seems to sell booze 24 hours also). My bungalow was just 150 meters from where that dreadful rape took place. However if it is possible, when the two confessed fishermen returned for a re-enactment the media circus was even more horrendous. Young school kids running through my resort to lollygag at this horrendous scene on the beach, with all the excitement of an arrival of Father Christmas. A couple of hours after the TV cameras and top brass left, two police with rifles, big enough to knock down elephants, plus infra red sniper scopes went down to patrol the beach. Waking up the next morning, I came to the reluctant conclusion that central London was more attractive, especially after nearly three months of torrential rain there. The last 3 or 4 years has seen a steady deterioration both in the infrastructure and more importantly the attitude of the islanders. The LOS has seen the last of me and I cannot even say “chok dee” to them!

[Malice in Wonderland]

TIT or TIFT

12 years ago was my first visit to Thailand

This literally leaves me a prisoner in my resort, just next to a renowned health resort, and on the other side, with the most awful 24 hour restaurant bar (that seems to sell booze 24 hours also).

For such a seasoned traveller with so much to say why did you book a place to stay next to Buddy Beer ???? DUMMY!!! or not quite the know it all you pertain to be???? Hmmm. I wonder......

[sierra01]

Very intersting thread, good points for the island, bad points against etc. Now look at it from your Mr & Mrs average tourist's side, what do they see? They see the news on the telly, they read the papers, and everything they see/read about Samui is bad, very bad. It's not surprising that the numbers of UK tourists visiting is down.

The expats that live there, and to a certain extent the other expats that live in the rest of Thailand, know the truth about safety on the island, Mr average tourist doesn't.

The safety subject can be debated here until the cows come home, and will have virtually no effect on the tourists at all.

[womble]

Nothing would make me happier than to see Samui's economy colapse. It is an island full of gangsters, and the police are nothing more than their lackeys. The island has been going into the gutter for years and it is a shame because it is a beautiful place. som nam na samui.

That's nice, so every single expat and Thai worker deserves to end up in the gutter due to your sweeping generalisations.

Those of us that live here know the truth, yeah it's not perfect far far from it, but it certainly not the hel_l whole some make it out to be.

Remember after the tsunami the media tried to bring phuket down with half truths and sensationlist reporting, thats whats happening to Samui now.

Many things are in urgent need of adressing here in Samui, but thats not surprising considering the immense growth that has occured in the last 5 years. As always things in Thailand have to get bad before they can be made good, actually world wide press coverage may well be our saviour.

[bobfla]

TIT or TIFT

12 years ago was my first visit to Thailand

This literally leaves me a prisoner in my resort, just next to a renowned health resort, and on the other side, with the most awful 24 hour restaurant bar (that seems to sell booze 24 hours also).

For such a seasoned traveller with so much to say why did you book a place to stay next to Buddy Beer ???? DUMMY!!! or not quite the know it all you pertain to be???? Hmmm. I wonder......

I have been staying at the same sweet resort for 11 years and the Thai family treat me much as a son. About 3 years ago I went back to London, returned 6 month later that evil Buddys had infected it self there. Being grossly disabled, where I stay is a flat location and I was just able to tolerate the new joint. Especially when they converted the pond into a large (1.8m deep) pool. Since I can only mobilise on crutches, very obese, swimming is the only real exercise I can manage. Does that answer your question smart-*rse? :-(

[Patsycat]

I've just read the whole 6 pages. I wish I could have visited Samui 10 or 15 years ago when it seems it was really "Paradise". I have only visited for the past 3 years and loved it. Coming from cold, grey Europe it is Paradise for many people compared to where we live. I don't go there for the Full Moon Parties, girly bars (i am a girl!). I have even made friends with other westerners who i met and we met up last year and will meet up this year again. After reading everything on TV both good and bad all i can say is nothing is going to make me cancel my holiday in a place i think is "Paradise".

So, on a lighter note, who wants to meet up for a drink around Easter?!

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I've just read the whole 6 pages. I wish I could have visited Samui 10 or 15 years ago when it seems it was really "Paradise". I have only visited for the past 3 years and loved it. Coming from cold, grey Europe it is Paradise for many people compared to where we live. I don't go there for the Full Moon Parties, girly bars (i am a girl!). I have even made friends with other westerners who i met and we met up last year and will meet up this year again. After reading everything on TV both good and bad all i can say is nothing is going to make me cancel my holiday in a place i think is "Paradise".

So, on a lighter note, who wants to meet up for a drink around Easter?!

Paradise? The place is getting dirtier by the minute. May take another look just after Easter. See you there. Maybe.