New Born Baby And Pollution - Are We Being Stupid?!

[Awk]

Slightly off topic, but perhaps amusing none the less:

http://www.ebay.com/...=p2047675.l2557

The sale has ended, but according to another paper I read, that is the same PM monitor that is used at the governments monitoring stations in Chiang Mai. For USD 1,300, plus probably an enormous import tax, you could have your own monitoring station. Perhaps you would also be able to gauge the efficiency of your air purifier with it.

Myself I'm curious what difference a good air purifier (e.g. the Whirlpool AP51030K, which was rated as #1 by Consumer Reports in USA a couple of year ago) would do.

Now if everyone just pitches in a couple hundred baht or so for Priceless ...

[chiang mai]

The Prem school in CM is regarded as one of the finest private schools for its age group in Asia, sorry I don't know their calendar.

Regarded as such by whom?

Any test results to support that regard?

Nope, not from me. Truth is I didn't even know the place existed and I've been here for nine years. But flying back from Bali recently I was seated next to an expat British lady who has lived on Bali for twenty eight years, was a teacher and is now past the official retirement age hence she is now classified as a consultant and she has permanenet residence there. To cut a long story short, we talked about a range of topics but education was a the primary topic, it was in the course of that discussion she mentioned the Prem school and it's global standing, apparently it is world famous in accademic circles. When I got back home I did a quick search on the web and indeed the references made to it are very impressive. So, I was just passing along information to a poster who I thought could use it, not expecting to be asked to justify chapter and verse!

It may well be "world famous in academic circles" but that would not be for high academic levels.

If Prem was really excellent and really had excellent academic performance, they would have a waiting list of students trying to get in like the other top IB schools but they do not and in fact they have been struggling to increase enrollment for years.

Beware of the hype about it.

Who says they are struggling? Do you have any stats to confirm that regard?

I presume you are a teacher at a competitve school. If you don't mind, since I have met her and taked with her at length hence, I'll take the word of the teacher I spoke to as fact until such time as someone can produce statistics showing reasons why I should not, if my choice is you or the that teacher, I choose her.

Edited September 23, 2012 by chiang mai

[Dante99]

Your presumption is incorrect. I have gotten statistics on enrollment over the last approximately ten years from the school. It dropped about four years ago, was basically flat for several years and probably has not recovered to its previous high this year. During that period they have had numerous programs to increase enrollment with limited success. Limited enrollment means limited funds which has been a constraint acknowledged by the school staff. They have unused capacity in terms of buildings. Such information has been provided to parents over the years.

[chiang mai]

Your presumption is incorrect. I have gotten statistics on enrollment over the last approximately ten years from the school. It dropped about four years ago, was basically flat for several years and probably has not recovered to its previous high this year. During that period they have had numerous programs to increase enrollment with limited success. Limited enrollment means limited funds which has been a constraint acknowledged by the school staff. They have unused capacity in terms of buildings. Such information has been provided to parents over the years.

Please post a link to confirm those things, thanks.

BTW, do you teach English, I ask because of your use of the word gotten, it makes me shiver?

Edited September 24, 2012 by chiang mai

[mesquite]

BTW, do you teach English, I ask because of your use of the word gotten, it makes me shiver?

BTW, do YOU teach English? Your misuse of commas makes me shiver.

[chiang mai]

BTW, do you teach English, I ask because of your use of the word gotten, it makes me shiver?

BTW, do YOU teach English? Your misuse of commas makes me shiver.

No I am not a teacher and I'm also not a member of the spelling/punctuation nazi. It's just that there are some words I would not expect to see teachers use. But we are sidetracking somewhat - my earlier post recommending the Prem school was offered to another psoter in good faith and in the context of the subject theme of how to avoid pollution during school term et al. That another poster who is a teacher at a rival school should use this as an opportunity to denegrade a school that his employer competes with is little more than crass in my book, but that's just me.

[mesquite]

OK. I see. I have to admit I had not read the previous posts.

[Dante99]

BTW, do you teach English, I ask because of your use of the word gotten, it makes me shiver?

BTW, do YOU teach English? Your misuse of commas makes me shiver.

No I am not a teacher and I'm also not a member of the spelling/punctuation nazi. It's just that there are some words I would not expect to see teachers use. But we are sidetracking somewhat - my earlier post recommending the Prem school was offered to another psoter in good faith and in the context of the subject theme of how to avoid pollution during school term et al. That another poster who is a teacher at a rival school should use this as an opportunity to denegrade a school that his employer competes with is little more than crass in my book, but that's just me.

As you seem to be referring to me, the facts are that I am not a teacher at a rival school, never said I was and never have been. In fact I have supported Prem over many years.

The school can provide you with enrollment history and test based information about academic levels if you want to deal with facts.

[Mapguy]

You'll probably get more "facts" out of Prem about the program and student results than any other international school in Chiang Mai. Start with comparison of web sites; then visit the schools.

[junglechef]

As I posted earlier that we go to the beach with our 3 kids to get away. Hua Hin is where we go, small party scene as the King's Summer residence is there and rules are enforced more. It has a very good foreign infrastructure, which make it a nice change from the country setting we usually in here, and since there are so many westerners that have holiday homes here there is an abundance of excellent rental choices. I lived there for 2 yrs so know it well, enjoy the seafood, more quiet beaches etc less than an hour away make nice day trips and a lot of families vacation there for these reasons so it's kid friendly. If you'd like some more info or leads just pm me.

I also like HH and have been doing the same for some years now, so can second that, though my wife says she feels like she's not in Thailand while there, due to the abundance of foreigners. I can somewhat agree with her on that, but it still seems like a nice place, at least from the viewpoint of an occasional visitor.

Unfortunately this "going away when it's bad" is only practical as long as one does not have children of school age. It's not a big concern for me if my daughter misses kindergarten for one and a half month, but the same is not the case when she in less than two years will be starting school.

Perhaps it is possible to find good Thai schools in CM, but with my lack of knowledge and lack of ability to competently differentiate between them, I do not want to gamble on anything other than one of the International schools. She's been attending kindergarten at one that has a somewhat bad reputation here for post-kindergarten years, but the kindergarten and it's teacher/admin staff gave me a much better impression than the others I visited, so that's where we put her for kindergarten. Unfortunately attending an international school rather than a public or private Thai school means we would not be lucky enough to have the bad period in CM more or less coincide with the school holidays.

I have not yet checked them all, but I would presume all International schools follow more or less the same calendar, having the summer/end of class year break in June-August, rather than according to the Thai calendar, in March-May.

For a while I was considering moving permanently to HH as a backup plan for a way for us to still live in Thailand rather than go back to my own cold country, but after reading some more about what I thought was an international school in HH (BECC), I no longer see that as a viable plan unfortunately.

I'm interested in any info your have concerning the BECC as I have friends moving to HH with the plan of having their children attending classes there.

[jackr]

If it's a bad year, it's bad for olds let alone little nippers. Op, how's about put back your visit until after March/April?

Always encourage kids to breathe through the nose as at least there's a crude filter in the nostrils..

Bit off topic, but l was on a respiratory puffer in London for years. Moved to Ubon, no puffer.

The lower humidity and higher pollen count may have contributed to your restricted breathing in London. I suffer in rural England where there is no pollution, but am generally fine in CM.

[Awk]

I'm interested in any info your have concerning the BECC as I have friends moving to HH with the plan of having their children attending classes there.

Not much to contribute in this regard, positive or negative, so perhaps

I should not have said anything. I initially I thought it was a regular

school similar to others, but after reading more about it some things

made me concerned:

1) The classes are mixed-age.

No doubt it is difficult to start up a new private school and having

mixed age groups presumably makes some things easier in the start.

While I know there are some studies on the effect of mixed-age classes

suggesting the effect, if there is one, is more often positive, I am

not familiar with this concept, and it does not seem to be common

among other international schools.

I of course do know there are others who are fans of parent-run schools,

Montessori programs (which I think also uses mixed-age groups), and

other things, but myself I'm not a big fan of what I think of as somewhat

experimental education for my own child, and I am not convinced I would

be able to meaningfully gauge how this would work out.

2) The school is not accredited as an international school.

In fairness they do not seem to attempt to indicate otherwise either, but if I

were to visit 10 schools to make up my opinion, I would have started

with the ones that are accredited, other things being equal.

Somebody at the school said it is working towards accreditation,

but that it takes around six years to complete. I'm surprised that

it should take so many years, but perhaps it does.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Awk

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Always encourage kids to breathe through the nose as at least there's a crude filter in the nostrils..

Yes, but not a PM-10 filter.

(If there was then breathing through the nose would be a lot less popular; try breathing through a PM-10 filter)

Edited September 26, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[sharktooth]

Tried to quote the guy that was ranting about pollution levels in Asia, but it wouldn't let me. So, anyway here is my reply to his 'facts'.

This is <deleted>. The Philippines has over 7,000 islands. Did the survey bloke visit every island, take a reading and then take an average, or just say , I'll take a reading in Manila then go on the piss.'

[Priceless]

Tried to quote the guy that was ranting about pollution levels in Asia, but it wouldn't let me. So, anyway here is my reply to his 'facts'.

This is <deleted>. The Philippines has over 7,000 islands. Did the survey bloke visit every island, take a reading and then take an average, or just say I'll take a reading in Manila then go on the piss.'

I've gone through the thread one more time, and the only post that mentioned Asia was my own (post #23). However, it says nothing about 'pollution levels in Asia'. What it does say is:

'As for other countries' standards, let me quote you a few (in µg/m³): [...]'

The Philippine government's standard is, as far as I know, the same over the whole country and can be found e.g. here: http://www.chanroble...cleanairact.htm

Before you claim something like 'This is <deleted>.', please read the post you are criticizing.

/ Priceless

[sharktooth]

Tried to quote the guy that was ranting about pollution levels in Asia, but it wouldn't let me. So, anyway here is my reply to his 'facts'.

This is <deleted>. The Philippines has over 7,000 islands. Did the survey bloke visit every island, take a reading and then take an average, or just say 'fukc it, I'll take a reading in Manila then go on the piss.'

I've gone through the thread one more time, and the only post that mentioned Asia was my own (post #23). However, it says nothing about 'pollution levels in Asia'. What it does say is:

'As for other countries' standards, let me quote you a few (in µg/m³): [...]'

The Philippine government's standard is, as far as I know, the same over the whole country and can be found e.g. here: http://www.chanrobles.com/philippinecleanairact.htm

Before you claim something like 'This is <deleted>.', please read the post you are criticizing.

/ Priceless

The Philippine government has 'standards'? Never noticed too many of them when I lived there...

[Puwa]

OP, first of all, congratulations on the impending arrival. If I were in your shoes, I would wait. Newborns are very sensitive, naturally. It's not possible to predict how bad the smoke will be next time, when it will start, or how long it will last. With all the adjustment of moving to a new place, caring for a new baby etc., this might be one problem you can avoid. Better to wait a few weeks, until maybe the end of April when the skies have cleared, and you can enjoy Chiang Mai without the added stress of smog.

[Mapguy]

Tried to quote the guy that was ranting about pollution levels in Asia, but it wouldn't let me. So, anyway here is my reply to his 'facts'.

This is <deleted>. The Philippines has over 7,000 islands. Did the survey bloke visit every island, take a reading and then take an average, or just say 'fukc it, I'll take a reading in Manila then go on the piss.'

I've gone through the thread one more time, and the only post that mentioned Asia was my own (post #23). However, it says nothing about 'pollution levels in Asia'. What it does say is:

'As for other countries' standards, let me quote you a few (in µg/m³): [...]'

The Philippine government's standard is, as far as I know, the same over the whole country and can be found e.g. here: http://www.chanroble...cleanairact.htm

Before you claim something like 'This is <deleted>.', please read the post you are criticizing.

/ Priceless

The Philippine government has 'standards'? Never noticed too many of them when I lived there...

You don't understand the discussion.

[mallymal]

OP, first of all, congratulations on the impending arrival. If I were in your shoes, I would wait. Newborns are very sensitive, naturally. It's not possible to predict how bad the smoke will be next time, when it will start, or how long it will last. With all the adjustment of moving to a new place, caring for a new baby etc., this might be one problem you can avoid. Better to wait a few weeks, until maybe the end of April when the skies have cleared, and you can enjoy Chiang Mai without the added stress of smog.

Thanks Puwa

Am I naive to think that baby and mother can just stay inside for a few weeks?! If we had an air filter, would they escape the brunt of it that way?!

I get what you're saying about waiting. However, the current plan would be to come over in November. If we decided to wait, we'd be hitting CM five months later than anticipated - I'm due to leave work this Friday, then have 4-6 weeks to prepare for our trip!

Oh dear oh dear...

Mal

[Puwa]

In that case, I would say come as planned, enjoy the perfect Chiang Mai weather for a few months, and you'll have plenty of time to figure out what to do if and when the smoke arrives.

Back home we had an absolutely superb pediatrician who advised us and all parents of newborns to not take the baby out for the first two weeks anyway. Air conditioning and air filters go a long way towards smoke-proofing a house or apartment.

Best of luck