เอ = Ee Or Eej?

[n00b]

About สระ "เ-" I have been getting conflicting information about this vowel and I would like to know for once how it is pronounced. I have heard it spoken as "e:" and I have heard it is supposed to be spoken as "e:j"/"e:i".

Could someone clarify this?

[bkkmick]

Think it's sala a...as in the Fonz 'ayeee'. So pronounce sala a au-an as the Fonz would say it...only shorter

Edited September 22, 2012 by bkkmick

[Dag Ekeberg]

it's not a diphthong, just an "e"

Confusion probably stems from the Thai name May..

[danbradster]

เอก = aehk = ache (pronounced in English, with a drawn out a sound)

[Peppy]

As others have indicated, it's like the "long a" sound in English. As in rain, day, say, hate, etc.

[AyG]

As others have indicated, it's like the "long a" sound in English. As in rain, day, say, hate, etc.

Except all four examples provided are diphthongs /eɪ/. The Thai vowel is not a diphthong, it's /eː/

[Dag Ekeberg]

When did เอ become a diphthong?

Try this: Say “Best” but skip the “st” and make the “e” long..

[danbradster]

My girlfriend just spoke เอ for me, she pronounced it exactly like A in ABCD.

[Richard W]

My girlfriend just spoke เอ for me, she pronounced it exactly like A in ABCD.

We don't believe you. Native English speakers are very bad at noticing the presence or absence of the short /ɪ/ at the end of the vowel.

[bytebuster]

As many have noticed, เ- is a monophthong. There's no inherent palatalization here or anywhere in modern Thai language (but there were in the past).

The confusion may come from how Thais transcribe English words. For instance, ATM is เอทีเอ็ม [eː tʰiː em], but many Thais know that [eː] should be palatalized here to be a proper English [eːi].

[danbradster]

Thai dictionary has an audio recording of เอ here http://www.thai-language.com/id/132963 The audio icon link is in the top right of the page.

Is it an A or E? Sounds like A to me.

Edited September 22, 2012 by danbradster

[Briggsy]

The sound does not exist in standard British English. It is a long pure vowel not a diphthong. The nearest approximation in standard British English is /ei:/ like the vowel in day but this is not the same, it is a diphthong, the Thai vowel is not a diphthong.

Get a Thai to say เขต. It is clearly a different vowel to the British English Kate.

[Richard W]

Is it an A or E? Sounds like A to me.

You've misunderstood what [eː] means. For the meaning as a speech sound, listen to the clips at http://www.let.uu.nl/~audiufon/data/e_primary_long.html .

The answer to your question is that it is a reasonable approximation to the English letter name 'a', but the sound is [eː], not the [eːɪ] that one should have for standard Enɡlish.

[n00b]

Thai dictionary has an audio recording of เอ here http://www.thai-language.com/id/132963 The audio icon link is in the top right of the page.

Is it an A or E? Sounds like A to me.

I wrote "เ" not "า".

I am only asking about sara เ which is the letter I have gotten conflicting information about. I attend a language course and the teacher asked me to pronounce it as e:j, which really confuses me as I first learned the sound to be pronounced e:

[n00b]

เอก = aehk = ache (pronounced in English, with a drawn out a sound)

aehk makes no sense. Ache is pronounced more like "eik" (i don't know how to type the proper IPA symbol so here's the lazy version).

But is เอก pronounced eek (e:k) or eeik (e:ik)?

[Parvis]

59. เอ aeh (Midtone) [pronunciation of the Thai vowel, เ ]

From website Thai-language.com

Edited September 23, 2012 by Parvis

[Peppy]

As others have indicated, it's like the "long a" sound in English. As in rain, day, say, hate, etc.

Except all four examples provided are diphthongs /eɪ/.

Depending on the dialect of English you speak...

The Thai vowel is not a diphthong, it's /eː/

Correct.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Peppy

[Briggsy]

Thai dictionary has an audio recording of เอ here http://www.thai-language.com/id/132963 The audio icon link is in the top right of the page.

Is it an A or E? Sounds like A to me.

I wrote "เ" not "า".

I am only asking about sara เ which is the letter I have gotten conflicting information about. I attend a language course and the teacher asked me to pronounce it as e:j, which really confuses me as I first learned the sound to be pronounced e:

Sounds like your teacher is adding a Sino-influenced 'ya" or /j/ at the end of the vowel. It is a common "intrusive error" amongst Thai speakers and can be heard in many Southern Chinese languages.

I think this is what you are referring to.

You might even find your teacher is Sino-Thai and has parents who speak a Southern Chinese language like Tae Jiw.

[n00b]

Thai dictionary has an audio recording of เอ here http://www.thai-language.com/id/132963 The audio icon link is in the top right of the page.

Is it an A or E? Sounds like A to me.

I wrote "เ" not "า".

I am only asking about sara เ which is the letter I have gotten conflicting information about. I attend a language course and the teacher asked me to pronounce it as e:j, which really confuses me as I first learned the sound to be pronounced e:

Sounds like your teacher is adding a Sino-influenced 'ya" or /j/ at the end of the vowel. It is a common "intrusive error" amongst Thai speakers and can be heard in many Southern Chinese languages.

I think this is what you are referring to.

You might even find your teacher is Sino-Thai and has parents who speak a Southern Chinese language like Tae Jiw.

I'm afraid it is not just the one teacher. I've had two different teachers there and they both teach it as a [e:j] sound while claiming that it is a vowel.

[Briggsy]

Thai dictionary has an audio recording of เอ here http://www.thai-language.com/id/132963 The audio icon link is in the top right of the page.

Is it an A or E? Sounds like A to me.

I wrote "เ" not "า".

I am only asking about sara เ which is the letter I have gotten conflicting information about. I attend a language course and the teacher asked me to pronounce it as e:j, which really confuses me as I first learned the sound to be pronounced e:

Sounds like your teacher is adding a Sino-influenced 'ya" or /j/ at the end of the vowel. It is a common "intrusive error" amongst Thai speakers and can be heard in many Southern Chinese languages.

I think this is what you are referring to.

You might even find your teacher is Sino-Thai and has parents who speak a Southern Chinese language like Tae Jiw.

I'm afraid it is not just the one teacher. I've had two different teachers there and they both teach it as a [e:j] sound while claiming that it is a vowel.

As I said it is a common "intrusive error" amongst Thai speakers.

Here is an example of an extra "intrusive sound" in English from the word drawing.

Standard pronunciation /dro:ing/

Common "incorrect" pronunciation with intrusive sound, here an /r/ /dro:ring/

Apologies for not using the correct phonetic symbols but they are tricky to find on a standard keyboard.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Briggsy

[n00b]

It seems like no one teaching the language seems to understand this.

I just read the descriptions of the vowels in the Thai for beginners book and in their transliteration they write it as /ee/ while explaining it to be like the "a" in the English word "pale", which would make it an /eei/ or /ei/. I've never heard the English word "pale" pronounced as "peel", to my ears it sounds more like "peil".

[Briggsy]

This is quite a minor point and it has been explained perfectly well by many posters on this site.

With regards to your last post, books are the least best way of teaching pronunciation.

There are at least 4 ways to try teach Thai pronunciation in a book, all have weaknesses.

1. Use the international phonetic alphabet. Many people don't know it and can't be bothered discovering it.

2. Use a standardised method like the Mary Haas method. Same reason as above.

3. Use approximations to English pronunciation. Many sounds do not exist in English.

4. Use Thai letters. Many people are not interested in learning the script.

[Richard W]

It seems like no one teaching the language seems to understand this.

I just read the descriptions of the vowels in the Thai for beginners book and in their transliteration they write it as /ee/ while explaining it to be like the "a" in the English word "pale", which would make it an /eei/ or /ei/. I've never heard the English word "pale" pronounced as "peel", to my ears it sounds more like "peil".

Are the two teachers you've referred to natives of Thailand? Do they live in Thailand? If not, where do they come from?

Briggsy has offered an unchallenged explanation of why a native of Thailand might actually be saying [eɪ].

Henderson quotes Somchit Piyatham reporting this sort of diphthongisation in the Phuket dialect - pp6-7 of http://sealang.net/s...975phonetic.pdf (pp264-265 of the original) - there's a lovely collection of examples of English-like diphthongisation.

[n00b]

Thanks for the link. I guess I should consider my question answered. เ is an "e", just a little less open than I'm used to say it. I've taken more time to listen to the sounds and I am now convinced that I have been confused about า as well. The teacher has explained it as an "ɑ" writing it like that on the blackboard while she should have written "a", which sounds like something between "ɑ" and "æ". I've been saying "ɑ" and the American students have been saying "æ", yet the teachers are saying "correct" to both while they are both wrong.

[TommoPhysicist]

Thai dictionary has an audio recording of เอ here http://www.thai-language.com/id/132963 The audio icon link is in the top right of the page.

Is it an A or E? Sounds like A to me.

aay in one version เอ

eh in another version เอ็

[n00b]

Now I'm pretty sure there is no dialect of Thai in which เอ becomes either eh or aay.

That article explained that in most of Thailand it is pronounced /e:/ while in Phuket it is pronounced /e:ɪ/. I cannot say for certain if I have heard the Phuket dialect myself so I can't confirm this with 100% certainty. The only people I've actually heard pronounce เอ as /e:ɪ/ is native English speakers who are learning Thai.

[paggamb]

I learned เอ = A in ABC since my kindergarten school time, nothing special. Listen and decide by yourself from this good clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0cPemn8hmw

and this clip from 3:23

Edited October 15, 2012 by paggamb

[TommoPhysicist]

Now I'm pretty sure there is no dialect of Thai in which เอ becomes either eh or aay.

That article explained that in most of Thailand it is pronounced /e:/ while in Phuket it is pronounced /e:ɪ/. I cannot say for certain if I have heard the Phuket dialect myself so I can't confirm this with 100% certainty. The only people I've actually heard pronounce เอ as /e:ɪ/ is native English speakers who are learning Thai.

เวลา = way-laa

เด็ก = deck

[Delight]

VOWEL A LONG AND SHORT.mp3Mp3 Track

The clip submitted by paggang nailed the Vowel A (long)

Attached track LONG and SHORT

Edited October 15, 2012 by Delight

[n00b]

Error

Edited October 15, 2012 by n00b