It's Not What You Eat It Is The Way You Eat.

[NeverSure]

Neversure,

There are not many people with valid medical conditions compared to fat people without them. So i can see his point.

You are right with the remark its calories in vs calories out, its that simple. Exercise however does help burning calories and toning muscle.

Tropo has no fat head he is actually quite ripped, he is in better shape then i am. Also a lot older then me. He does know what he talks about exercise wise.

Please read his rant again. It starts with the word everyone and gives no slack to anyone. He's dead wrong about some things too such as the role of exercise in weight loss. The truth is that with exercise you gain muscle weight and actually need to eat more to sustain the work load. Some people who are in intense training such as marathon runners need to eat a massive amount of calories just to maintain. It's still calories in vs calories burned.

The real problem though, besides his errors, is his attitude. He lumps everyone together as if he's qualified to insultingly give a mental diagnosis to people he's never met. I suggest he complete medical school and then do a specialty in psychiatry before he opens his trap.

He's a classic example of someone who's never walked that mile in someone else's shoes.

[tropo]

The

I partly agree with Tropo, often being fat is a result of being lazy / careless. Its a choice, there are not many people who are fat because of health issues. Its just easy and comfortable to become fat.

Its easy to eat what you want when you want it as much as you want. Its much harder to not eat and watch what you eat and drink. Lot less fun too. So in a way its often a choice.

Also exercise is time consuming and many don't like doing it so again a choice.

Gimme a break? Tropo busts in with an adamant "Diets fail because people fail to realise that being overweight is as much a mental condition as a physical one." ... "The fact that so many people will readily advertise that exercise is not required to lose weight illustrates this rather well. Laziness got them fat in the first place and they're looking for the lazy way out."

Does he not know what an absolutely pompous insult that is to those who have hormonal imbalances, who are under Dr's orders to not exercise, who are on meds including steriods and others which dictate weight gain, and many other medical conditions which are beyond a person's control? Is he that callous and stupid in real life, or is he just an internet troll?

I told my story above and I had never been overweight but it wasn't mental and it wasn't a choice and it wasn't within my control. It sure wasn't laziness as he claims. I'm not allowed to exercise now but I've lost 20 pounds already since I got past the illness and off the meds dispite his dumb claims. I simply eat fewer calories than my body needs to maintain a temperature of 98.6F and other bodily functions, and the weight must come off.

I'm proof you don't have to exercise to lose weight. It's calories burned vs. calories eaten. Period. You need to exercise to be in good shape.

I think he needs to diet and exercise his fat head so he can stop insulting those people who have true medical conditions.

This thread wasn't about you. It was a thread with advice on how to lose weight. You are not the OP of this thread and if you were, I wouldn't have replied. Since when did it morph into a discussion about your medical conditions?

There are people who are fat for medical reasons beyond their control, but they are only a very small percentage of fat people and I'm not discussing them.

The overwhelming majority are inactive people who don't care what they put in their mouths.

Now why don't you stop taking everything so personally and relax.

[tropo]

Please read his rant again. It starts with the word everyone and gives no slack to anyone. He's dead wrong about some things too such as the role of exercise in weight loss. The truth is that with exercise you gain muscle weight and actually need to eat more to sustain the work load. Some people who are in intense training such as marathon runners need to eat a massive amount of calories just to maintain. It's still calories in vs calories burned.

Really, this is nonsense and a reason why so many people fail with their diets and come up with all the reasons in the world not to exercise. When you exercise the idea is to build muscle and increase the metabolic rate... and control what you put in your mouth. Obviously if you eat more than you burn you're going to put on weight.

This all takes willpower and control. This is what most of the fat people lack - do you?

[NeverSure]

Since when did it morph into a discussion about your medical conditions?

You said, incorrectly -

"The fact that so many people will readily advertise that exercise is not required to lose weight illustrates this rather well. Laziness got them fat in the first place and they're looking for the lazy way out."

Go back to school. It's a matter of ingesting fewer calories than you burn, not exercise. I'm steadily losing a bit more than a pound a week with no real exercise. Exercise makes you fit and healthier. I look forward to when I am cleared to exercise.

I wish you had been through the Hell I've been through for the past almost 3 years. If you had you'd close your yap and be ashamed of yourself. Then you'd be the 50 pound overweight one and I could denigrate you. You'd be amazed what can happen to your body in 3 years with virtually no exercise at all, a certain combination of meds which physically screw up your body and others which convince you you're starved when you aren't and a brain which won't function right due to illness and meds.

Let's talk again in a year when my weight's back to 170 and I've been in the gym for 90 days. 90 days is just a start, but it's long enough to see real improvement.

[NeverSure]

This all takes willpower and control. This is what most of the fat people lack - do you?

See there you go again. It's about my willpower. Have you ever had a brain injury followed by steriods to keep the swelling down and a lot of other poisons put into your body, and no exercise at all for almost 3 years?

You have no idea what willpower is until you come out the other side of that. You're a baby when it comes to experiencing being mentally strong and determined.

You're an ass.

[tropo]

This all takes willpower and control. This is what most of the fat people lack - do you?

See there you go again. It's about my willpower. Have you ever had a brain injury followed by steriods to keep the swelling down and a lot of other poisons put into your body, and no exercise at all for almost 3 years?

You have no idea what willpower is until you come out the other side of that. You're a baby when it comes to experiencing being mentally strong and determined.

You're an ass.

You're being the ass - with all your name calling (which is actually against forum rules).

If putting on weight comes down to a calories in vs calories out equation, why are you blaming your health condition for getting fat? That doesn't make sense, does it?

(Why would you assume that a anonymous identity on a forum hasn't been through personal hell? I broke up half my body in a motorcycle crash - and crutched around the gym. I have arthritis in both knees and still train. I still have a steel nail in the femur. I have pre-diabetes too - but control what I eat. Stop being a cry-baby thinking you're the only one who has suffered any hardship)

[Tolley]

The

I partly agree with Tropo, often being fat is a result of being lazy / careless. Its a choice, there are not many people who are fat because of health issues. Its just easy and comfortable to become fat.

Its easy to eat what you want when you want it as much as you want. Its much harder to not eat and watch what you eat and drink. Lot less fun too. So in a way its often a choice.

Also exercise is time consuming and many don't like doing it so again a choice.

Gimme a break? Tropo busts in with an adamant "Diets fail because people fail to realise that being overweight is as much a mental condition as a physical one." ... "The fact that so many people will readily advertise that exercise is not required to lose weight illustrates this rather well. Laziness got them fat in the first place and they're looking for the lazy way out."

Does he not know what an absolutely pompous insult that is to those who have hormonal imbalances, who are under Dr's orders to not exercise, who are on meds including steriods and others which dictate weight gain, and many other medical conditions which are beyond a person's control? Is he that callous and stupid in real life, or is he just an internet troll?

I told my story above and I had never been overweight but it wasn't mental and it wasn't a choice and it wasn't within my control. It sure wasn't laziness as he claims. I'm not allowed to exercise now but I've lost 20 pounds already since I got past the illness and off the meds dispite his dumb claims. I simply eat fewer calories than my body needs to maintain a temperature of 98.6F and other bodily functions, and the weight must come off.

I'm proof you don't have to exercise to lose weight. It's calories burned vs. calories eaten. Period. You need to exercise to be in good shape.

I think he needs to diet and exercise his fat head so he can stop insulting those people who have true medical conditions.

This thread wasn't about you. It was a thread with advice on how to lose weight. You are not the OP of this thread and if you were, I wouldn't have replied. Since when did it morph into a discussion about your medical conditions?

There are people who are fat for medical reasons beyond their control, but they are only a very small percentage of fat people and I'm not discussing them.

The overwhelming majority are inactive people who don't care what they put in their mouths.

Now why don't you stop taking everything so personally and relax.

Tropo , the sensitive new age guy of the board.

[tropo]

I think he needs to diet and exercise his fat head so he can stop insulting those people who have true medical conditions.

Tropo , the sensitive new age guy of the board.

I have lost some weight from my fat head though. Some of the approximately 10kg of fat I've lost this year was located on my head.

[tropo]

[robblok]

I agree though with tropo that for non medical related overweight its a mental thing. You have to be willing to give up some things to loose weight. Its not going to happen without some changes.

Neversure is already doing a good thing in controlling his food and it goes well. So he is not one of those people who are not willing to sacrifice stuff.

If he also exercises it would be a plus but so far he is doing fine.

[tropo]

I agree though with tropo that for non medical related overweight its a mental thing. You have to be willing to give up some things to loose weight. Its not going to happen without some changes.

Neversure is already doing a good thing in controlling his food and it goes well. So he is not one of those people who are not willing to sacrifice stuff.

If he also exercises it would be a plus but so far he is doing fine.

Perhaps, apart from being stressed out and angry. That raises cortisol and can result in fat gain too... especially in the abdominal area.

[JSixpack]

Well, I hope few pay attention to the OP. You can nitpick but in the end it's really all about what you eat.

And I disagree that exercise has much to do with losing weight in particular (sorry, you guys w/ big investments), though it's good for many other reasons. In fact, exercising can make you even fatter by making you eat more. This is well known and documented.

Fat burning is accomplished while you're resting or during very moderate exercise such as walking if your insulin levels are quite low.

It's not that people are fat because they're lazy. The opposite is true: people are lazy because fat. Fat people eat more because they're fat. Now, I'm gonna do something highly irregular here in our forum: actually give facts and cite sources rather than just blow the usual hot air.

A good article to read and study on this point is:

Does Exercise Really Make Us Thinner? -- New York Magazine

http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/

Immediately sneers will arise (from those who didn't even read the article, because they KNOW) that this isn't an acceptable source, even though written by a respected Stanford-Harvard-educated author, referring to primary sources, and is correct and empirically verified. But any biochemistry textbook gives you the same science:

Moreover, the glucose from glycogen is readily mobilized and is

therefore a good source of energy for sudden, strenuous activity.

Unlike

fatty acids

, the released glucose can provide energy in the absence of

oxygen and can thus supply energy for anaerobic activity.

. . .

The hydrolysis of triacylglycerols (Section 22.2) in fat cells yields

glycerol and fatty acids. Glycerol is a precursor of glucose, but

ani-

mals cannot convert fatty acids into glucose,

. . .

Fatty acids mobilized from triacylglycerols are oxidized to meet the

energy needs of a cell or organism. During

rest or moderate exercise

,

such as walking, fatty acids are our primary source of energy.

--Biochemistry

, 7th ed., Jeremy M. Berg et al. pp. 481, 639, A24

The American Heart Association AND the American College of Sports Medicine jointly concluded:

"It is reasonable to assume that persons with relatively

high daily energy expenditures would be less likely to gain

weight over time, compared with those who have low

energy expenditures.

So far, data to support this hypothesis

are not particularly compelling

. . . ."

--http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/9/1081.full.pdf

In the normal case, regulation of insulin mainly controls whether you get fat or not.

One metabolism may naturally do this better than another but normally can be controlled by what you eat, not how or even how much particularly except when it comes to carbs. Gary Taubes boils down the process of getting fat thus:

1. You think about eating a meal containing

carbohydrates

.

2. You begin secreting insulin.

3· The insulin signals the fat cells to shut down the release of fatty acids (by inhibiting HSL*)and take up more fatty acids (via LPL) from the circulation.

4· You start to get hungry, or hungrier.

5· You begin eating.

6. You secrete more insulin.

7· The carbohydrates are digested and enter the circulation as glucose, causing blood sugar levels to rise.

8. You secrete still more insulin.

9· Fat from the diet is stored as triglycerides in the fat cells, as are some of the carbohydrates that are converted into fat in the liver.

10. The fat cells get fatter, and so do you.

11. The fat stays in the fat cells until the insulin level drops.

--Gary Taubes,

Why We Get Fat

*

All treatments for obesity, including dietary restriction of carbohydrates, have a goal of reducing the storage of fat in adipocytes. The chief enzyme responsible for the mobilization of FFA from adipose tissue, i.e., lipolysis, is thought to be

hormone-sensitive lipase

(HSL).

--http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/12

*"Triacylglycerols can be mobilized by the hydrolytic action of lipases

that are under hormonal control. Glucagon and epinephrine stimulate

triacylglycerol breakdown by activating the

lipase

.

Insulin, in contrast,

inhibits lipolysis

."

--

Biochemistry

, 7th ed., Berg et al., p. 667

Note there's nothing at all in this process--nothing--about "laziness" or "small bites" or "glass of water" or "exercise" or "calories" or "willpower" (subverting the chemistry to make it all a moral question for presumably subjective motivational reasons [reminds me of G. Gordon Liddy and his book Will]). Hence low carb dieters lose weight while optionally exercising but eating whenever they're hungry and until they're full.

Well, that should give you all something to chew on for awhile.

[TommoPhysicist]

For me its not how I eat but what I eat. I eat fast all my life.

Only when I cut out the 'sugar' and things like beer did my weight come down - that combined with working out. I still eat fast.

Cutting out sugar is real important, i occasionally do g eat sugar for instance a miniscule amount of syrup with water if drinking tea or just water bores me.

But its just a fact of life that some (like me) have to do a lot more to get and stay lean then others. I eat my healthy fats, my unprocessed foods,, watch my calories (count them if possible) and still its hard. Now that im actually leaner then ever its quite hard to get to get even leaner (as in 6 pack lean)

I am also a real fast eater and it never helped me at all.

I'm with these two.

Cut out all western food, fats, sugar, beer, processed foods, fatty meats and you will soon lose weight.

I don't count calories, I eat as much of 'acceptable foods' as I want.

My hip bones surfaced for the first time in years this month.

Neversure is right

Exercise didn't help with my weight loss, I did loads and just got fatter. Diet is all.

[omnilangur]

I don't think the way you eat food particularly matters; but the advice about not starving yourself is noteworthy. The only way I've ever successfully followed a diet is by planning and pre-preparing six small meals and eating them at regular intervals throughout the day - you can't rely on your body to 'tell' you it's hungry, actual hunger pangs are often a sign of dehydration, not famine. The hardest thing is temptation, especially when you're busy or travelling; healthy food needs to be available in small portions when required. I still follow the old Body-for-LIFE routine, working out first thing on an empty stomach, then taking the first meal an hour later; my favorite meals are tuna or chicken salads for the 1st, 3rd and 5th meals (8am, 12pm, 6pm) and protein shakes for the 2nd, 4th and 6th meals (10am, 3pm and 9pm).

Fasting is quite effective and being ordained as a forest monk helps! I eat 4 times a day with LITTLE or NO meat and I'm six packed to railroad tracks man!

[robblok]

For me its not how I eat but what I eat. I eat fast all my life.

Only when I cut out the 'sugar' and things like beer did my weight come down - that combined with working out. I still eat fast.

Cutting out sugar is real important, i occasionally do g eat sugar for instance a miniscule amount of syrup with water if drinking tea or just water bores me.

But its just a fact of life that some (like me) have to do a lot more to get and stay lean then others. I eat my healthy fats, my unprocessed foods,, watch my calories (count them if possible) and still its hard. Now that im actually leaner then ever its quite hard to get to get even leaner (as in 6 pack lean)

I am also a real fast eater and it never helped me at all.

I'm with these two.

Cut out all western food, fats, sugar, beer, processed foods, fatty meats and you will soon lose weight.

I don't count calories, I eat as much of 'acceptable foods' as I want.

My hip bones surfaced for the first time in years this month.

Neversure is right

Exercise didn't help with my weight loss, I did loads and just got fatter. Diet is all.

I believe diet first and then exercise to improve on it.

I do 2 types of exercise, one lifting weights and such to gain muscle and the other is cardio to burn fat. They seem to work for me but not without a good diet.

I have become leaner as ever and my six pack is appearing, i more muscular then ever so all in all good results. But it took hard work and lots of time, and im still not where i want to be.

Maybe that is good you need something to aspire too.

Anyway I dont believe there is a one way for all, we should all try and see what works best for us.

[Tolley]

For me its not how I eat but what I eat. I eat fast all my life.

Only when I cut out the 'sugar' and things like beer did my weight come down - that combined with working out. I still eat fast.

Cutting out sugar is real important, i occasionally do g eat sugar for instance a miniscule amount of syrup with water if drinking tea or just water bores me.

But its just a fact of life that some (like me) have to do a lot more to get and stay lean then others. I eat my healthy fats, my unprocessed foods,, watch my calories (count them if possible) and still its hard. Now that im actually leaner then ever its quite hard to get to get even leaner (as in 6 pack lean)

I am also a real fast eater and it never helped me at all.

I'm with these two.

Cut out all western food, fats, sugar, beer, processed foods, fatty meats and you will soon lose weight.

I don't count calories, I eat as much of 'acceptable foods' as I want.

My hip bones surfaced for the first time in years this month.

Neversure is right

Exercise didn't help with my weight loss, I did loads and just got fatter. Diet is all.

I believe diet first and then exercise to improve on it.

I do 2 types of exercise, one lifting weights and such to gain muscle and the other is cardio to burn fat. They seem to work for me but not without a good diet.

I have become leaner as ever and my six pack is appearing, i more muscular then ever so all in all good results. But it took hard work and lots of time, and im still not where i want to be.

Maybe that is good you need something to aspire too.

Anyway I dont believe there is a one way for all, we should all try and see what works best for us.

exercise is also highly important.

Men need hard physical exercise. Too many guys substitute this for heavy drinking or smoking or other bad habits when they dont realise that their body is really craving some hard exercise.

[tropo]

Note there's nothing at all in this process--nothing--about "laziness" or "small bites" or "glass of water" or "exercise" or "calories" or "willpower"

This conclusion totally ignores the obvious and it has nothing to do with chemistry.

Let's take them one by one:

1. "Laziness". Causes inactivity and lack of determination to find, prepare and eat good, healthy food. In other words - take what is easily available, no matter the quality i.e. fast food.

(A fast road to obesity)

2. "Small bites". Slower eating will result in less eaten.

A tool to prevent overeating.

3. "Glass of water". This can result in less being eaten throughout the day. I remember my wife told me she did this a lot when they didn't have enough food while growing up.

4. "Exercise". Burns fat. Obviously one must control the urge to eat more. That's where the next one comes in handy...

5. "Willpower". Not putting excess food or rubbish in one's mouth requires willpower. The more one exercises it the stronger it becomes. The more one gives into cravings, the weaker it becomes.

[Tolley]

It is amazing all these theories coming out about obesity which sort of absolve the individual from taking responsibility for their own weight and shape.

You only have to go back twenty years and you could see far less fat people around than today.

Now why might that be?

Two obvious things are the amount of fast food and take away food people now consume and the second is the sedentary lifestyles.

It isnt rocket science. Eat properly and do some exercise and most people would be in a healthy weight range.

[tropo]

exercise is also highly important.

Men need hard physical exercise. Too many guys substitute this for heavy drinking or smoking or other bad habits when they dont realise that their body is really craving some hard exercise.

Lazy people are never going to understand the importance of exercise to maintain permanent weight loss. They'll brag about how much they've lost through diet alone, but you won't hear from them when they've put it back on, which doesn't take long because for diet-alone weight loss it's just a calorie equation - eat more - put on weight, eat less - take it off again. A person who exercises a lot and develops a more efficient metabolism can eat more and stay lean.

If these yo-yo dieters ate what I ate everyday they'd be over 300lbs. I get to eat a lot and still lose fat or maintain low fat levels. My post exercise meal alone is about 900 calories... and that's one meal out of 5.

[robblok]

Im not contesting exercise is important, else i would not exercise that much. I am just not sure how important it is for weight loss. I believe diet is nr 1 and exercise is nr 2 and together they can give much better results as each seperate.

So i think i agree with you guys

[foxboy]

exercise is also highly important.

Men need hard physical exercise. Too many guys substitute this for heavy drinking or smoking or other bad habits when they dont realise that their body is really craving some hard exercise.

Lazy people are never going to understand the importance of exercise to maintain permanent weight loss. They'll brag about how much they've lost through diet alone, but you won't hear from them when they've put it back on, which doesn't take long because for diet-alone weight loss it's just a calorie equation - eat more - put on weight, eat less - take it off again. A person who exercises a lot and develops a more efficient metabolism can eat more and stay lean.

If these yo-yo dieters ate what I ate everyday they'd be over 300lbs. I get to eat a lot and still lose fat or maintain low fat levels. My post exercise meal alone is about 900 calories... and that's one meal out of 5.

Tropo, like so many other guys who've spent a long time in the gym, knows exactly what he's talking about. By using the gym you get to understand your body, and appreciate the importance of exercise. Fat people are generally LAZY (fact!) they look at you like it's YOUR fault Nobody gets fat without without eating or drinking too much. It is a life choice. Nobody had those choices in the concentration camps and not one person came out fat. Where were all the poor unfortunates with under active thyroids, gland trouble, big bones, fat genes, or a slow metabolism that hardly eat but still remain fat?

I have been overweight myself, 3 stone heavier than I am now, through overeating. But now I'm 44 with a six pack and it feels great. Hard work and discipline is all you need.

[robblok]

exercise is also highly important.

Men need hard physical exercise. Too many guys substitute this for heavy drinking or smoking or other bad habits when they dont realise that their body is really craving some hard exercise.

Lazy people are never going to understand the importance of exercise to maintain permanent weight loss. They'll brag about how much they've lost through diet alone, but you won't hear from them when they've put it back on, which doesn't take long because for diet-alone weight loss it's just a calorie equation - eat more - put on weight, eat less - take it off again. A person who exercises a lot and develops a more efficient metabolism can eat more and stay lean.

If these yo-yo dieters ate what I ate everyday they'd be over 300lbs. I get to eat a lot and still lose fat or maintain low fat levels. My post exercise meal alone is about 900 calories... and that's one meal out of 5.

Tropo, like so many other guys who've spent a long time in the gym, knows exactly what he's talking about. By using the gym you get to understand your body, and appreciate the importance of exercise. Fat people are generally LAZY (fact!) they look at you like it's YOUR fault Nobody gets fat without without eating or drinking too much. It is a life choice. Nobody had those choices in the concentration camps and not one person came out fat. Where were all the poor unfortunates with under active thyroids, gland trouble, big bones, fat genes, or a slow metabolism that hardly eat but still remain fat?

I have been overweight myself, 3 stone heavier than I am now, through overeating. But now I'm 44 with a six pack and it feels great. Hard work and discipline is all you need.

I agree it takes dicipline and hard work. But you really need to understand the body and some of its hormones. It can be real hard to fight fat if your doing it all wrong.

I am now reading more about leptine and it makes some sense. Now i need to read more about manipulating it.

I really want to know how much the body can be slowed down.

I am no couch potato, i work out a lot and eat right. I look ok and my 6 pack is slowly appearing (upper part) Its going well it does take time. But my muscles look better now too bigger at a lower weight. Though i gained some muscle recently while dropping fat.

[AllanB]

Pass by a KFC or Burger King , have a look at the condition most of the people eating there are in.

ME too and especially Macdonalds, all these tricks and diets are fine if they work for you, but may I suggest that if you are on this forum section, it is because it not working. Perhaps you are fooling yourself, that because you lost 1 kilo 2 weeks ago it is working, a better way of looking at it is, do you look and feel better and fitter? Why are we so obsessed by the scales? Because the marketing men want us to be.

I am 6 foot tall and 83kg and most would agree that is an ideal weight, however, I have taken tests that say I am overweight and with a bit of a stomach and if I had low self esteem I could believe that. I know if I follow their diet I will add weight, which I don't want, so I follow the 4 point eating routine and eat what I want, coupled with a bit of common sense, bearing in mind my age and level of activity..

I have four meals a day, eat chocolate when I fancy some, an odd few beers, but don't go mad, drinking less than most. When we play snooker once a week, I have ice in my beer and in four hours I have drunk 1 big bottle of Chang and a ton of ice. The result I am sober enough to drive home and not dehydrated. A sensible boring fart if you like, but it isn't that apparent to my mates, as I am drinking all the time they are. Snooker is a good game for fat people, as you get a little gentle exercise, quite a lot over a few hours and it takes you mind off food. We use a handicap scoring system, so anyone can play and it is a longer game than pool, so more concentration.

There is no reason why you can't do both, eat your special formula, but eat slowly...and don't let yourself become hungry. Do your exercises, training, this is all good, but in the same way that you don't rush into training, you warm up first, don't rush into eating.

Like I say I have no agenda, I am not selling anything, just a like to help.

Good luck and lets have some feedback.

[robblok]

Alan,

I agree witht he fact that scales don't tell the full thing. I am around 6ft too but 13kg heavier then you. Though i complain about my abs they are actually quite decent (not good enough yet) but people would say im lean.

Once you start working out you add on muscle and all those tables don't work anymore. I am sure i am classed as obese or something like that.

[AllanB]

I agree it takes discipline and hard work. But you really need to understand the body and some of its hormones. It can be real hard to fight fat if your doing it all wrong..

If you think you will ever understand the body you are fooling yourself, it is an incredibly complicated organism, with a lot of interaction going on. The companies flogging their crap, like to simplify things which is why things don't work, or if they do it is by complete accident or coincidence, which is borne out by the statistics. So rather that try to fully understand everything, look at the way the body evolved, a few thousand years ago, as nothing much has changed. Most people know how to drive, but few understand how everything works and the human body is a million times more complex.

I also make use of statistics, I would never be able to fly if I didn't consider it's safety record, based upon statistics. So if most fat people eat quickly and most thin people eat more slowly, that tells me something. I look at the eating habits in different countries too. France and the UK have about the same standard of living, but by far more people in the UK are overweight. One factor is that the French eat slower and savour their food more, meal times are an occasion, rather than a junk food feeding frenzy.

[robblok]

Alan

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other. ^[1][2]

[AllanB]

Alan

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other. ^[1][2]

I never claimed that, only that was an fair indication. I used that as an alternative to looking at one aspect of a complicated organism and drawing a conclusion from that. When you are dealing with a subject you have so little knowledge of, you need to, shall we say "improvise" since the whole science is not there to analyse.

There is no doubt that diets are not only a statistical failure, but actually counter-productive and I can't think of anything that has such a negative affect, compared to it's aim.

If you look at smoking cures, the nicotine patches are not wholly successful, but have some measure of positive affect. Even drug and alcohol programmes have some overall positive results.

Why are diets so negative in their overall affect, it is perhaps because they are fundamentally flawed as a form of weight loss.

I also have an issue with the notion that a man's body needs a gym and a heavy workout, we as a species don't need huge muscles to carry out our days to day functions, it is purely a vanity thing, indeed that activity is counter-productive too, in terms of eventual weight gain. You stop the heavy training and the muscle invariably turns to fat, the high calorie intake that has become habit forming, continues, but the burning off routines, have long since ceased.

This whole thing is a lot more about psychology, the brain bursting willpower, which the vast majority of us don't have, leaves us vulnerable to the fast food feedery and to "sod that" to the gym. This macho crap is impossible for most visiting this forum, fat people just want to thinner and fitter...and stay that way, right?.

[robblok]

Alan

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other. ^[1][2]

I never claimed that, only that was an fair indication. I used that as an alternative to looking at one aspect of a complicated organism and drawing a conclusion from that. When you are dealing with a subject you have so little knowledge of, you need to, shall we say "improvise" since the whole science is not there to analyse.

There is no doubt that diets are not only a statistical failure, but actually counter-productive and I can't think of anything that has such a negative affect, compared to it's aim.

If you look at smoking cures, the nicotine patches are not wholly successful, but have some measure of positive affect. Even drug and alcohol programmes have some overall positive results.

Why are diets so negative in their overall affect, it is perhaps because they are fundamentally flawed as a form of weight loss.

I also have an issue with the notion that a man's body needs a gym and a heavy workout, we as a species don't need huge muscles to carry out our days to day functions, it is purely a vanity thing, indeed that activity is counter-productive too, in terms of eventual weight gain. You stop the heavy training and the muscle invariably turns to fat, the high calorie intake that has become habit forming, continues, but the burning off routines, have long since ceased.

This whole thing is a lot more about psychology, the brain bursting willpower, which the vast majority of us don't have, leaves us vulnerable to the fast food feedery and to "sod that" to the gym. This macho crap is impossible for most visiting this forum, fat people just want to thinner and fitter...and stay that way, right?.

Alan, you are not a real smart man are you, could you please tell me by what biological process muscle turns into fat ? Its simply impossible. Just like many of your statements totally untrue.

Same like your remark about the speed of eating.. you cant just compare the French and the UK and then blame it on the speed of food consumption. Has it ever come to your attention that the diets are also totally different.

No disrespect, but your ranting.

I also agree we don't need much musle but it looks a hell of a lot better then a beer belly or being obese.

I don't believe in diets i believe in changing bad habits into good habits permanently.

I and others believe we need at least 30 minutes of physical activity per day. Those are guidelines that all governments and health organizations agree upon. It might not be needed for weight loss but it is needed to keep in healthy. This does not have to be lifting weights.. but you will have to do something.

[Tolley]

Alan

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other. ^[1][2]

I never claimed that, only that was an fair indication. I used that as an alternative to looking at one aspect of a complicated organism and drawing a conclusion from that. When you are dealing with a subject you have so little knowledge of, you need to, shall we say "improvise" since the whole science is not there to analyse.

There is no doubt that diets are not only a statistical failure, but actually counter-productive and I can't think of anything that has such a negative affect, compared to it's aim.

If you look at smoking cures, the nicotine patches are not wholly successful, but have some measure of positive affect. Even drug and alcohol programmes have some overall positive results.

Why are diets so negative in their overall affect, it is perhaps because they are fundamentally flawed as a form of weight loss.

I also have an issue with the notion that a man's body needs a gym and a heavy workout, we as a species don't need huge muscles to carry out our days to day functions, it is purely a vanity thing, indeed that activity is counter-productive too, in terms of eventual weight gain. You stop the heavy training and the muscle invariably turns to fat, the high calorie intake that has become habit forming, continues, but the burning off routines, have long since ceased.

This whole thing is a lot more about psychology, the brain bursting willpower, which the vast majority of us don't have, leaves us vulnerable to the fast food feedery and to "sod that" to the gym. This macho crap is impossible for most visiting this forum, fat people just want to thinner and fitter...and stay that way, right?.

Mate you obviously dont know very much from your posts. Please dont assume that we are all as ignorant as you are.

[AllanB]

Alan

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other. ^[1][2]

I never claimed that, only that was an fair indication. I used that as an alternative to looking at one aspect of a complicated organism and drawing a conclusion from that. When you are dealing with a subject you have so little knowledge of, you need to, shall we say "improvise" since the whole science is not there to analyse.

There is no doubt that diets are not only a statistical failure, but actually counter-productive and I can't think of anything that has such a negative affect, compared to it's aim.

If you look at smoking cures, the nicotine patches are not wholly successful, but have some measure of positive affect. Even drug and alcohol programmes have some overall positive results.

Why are diets so negative in their overall affect, it is perhaps because they are fundamentally flawed as a form of weight loss.

I also have an issue with the notion that a man's body needs a gym and a heavy workout, we as a species don't need huge muscles to carry out our days to day functions, it is purely a vanity thing, indeed that activity is counter-productive too, in terms of eventual weight gain. You stop the heavy training and the muscle invariably turns to fat, the high calorie intake that has become habit forming, continues, but the burning off routines, have long since ceased.

This whole thing is a lot more about psychology, the brain bursting willpower, which the vast majority of us don't have, leaves us vulnerable to the fast food feedery and to "sod that" to the gym. This macho crap is impossible for most visiting this forum, fat people just want to thinner and fitter...and stay that way, right?.

Alan, you are not a real smart man are you, could you please tell me by what biological process muscle turns into fat ? Its simply impossible. Just like many of your statements totally untrue.

Same like your remark about the speed of eating.. you cant just compare the French and the UK and then blame it on the speed of food consumption. Has it ever come to your attention that the diets are also totally different.

No disrespect, but your ranting.

I also agree we don't need much musle but it looks a hell of a lot better then a beer belly or being obese.

I don't believe in diets i believe in changing bad habits into good habits permanently.

I and others believe we need at least 30 minutes of physical activity per day. Those are guidelines that all governments and health organizations agree upon. It might not be needed for weight loss but it is needed to keep in healthy. This does not have to be lifting weights.. but you will have to do something.

Why do you guys come on this forum just to insult and criticise? Or do you just enjoy telling everyone about you six-pack whether real or imaginary. This is designed to help and it works. on the other hand, your advice of hard training to someone who is overweight, or obese is highly dangerous and doesn't.

The muscle turning to fat is not a literal thing, more resultant, The muscle decays over time and the continued high level food intake is then stored as fat, does that help you? Either way when you train hard you have muscle, when you stop for any length of time you are likely to get fat. Look at all the old heavyweight boxers and Arny too when he stopped.

The comparison between the French and British is a good example, as if anything the French have a higher fat diet than the Brits, I know I have lived in both countries. The French spend hours eating a meal, the Brits minutes, then look at the women in both countries. However, as the French are now turning more and more to fast food, they too are getting noticeably fatter in larger numbers.The pressures of modern living. The same is true in Scandinavia where people spend time eating, I lived in Denmark too and they don't actually serve the food, so it is easy to stop when you are full, without offending the host and even start again if you wish.

It is true that all diets are different, but all are statistically counter-productive, if there was one that wasn't and wasn't based on high levels of willpower, it would render the others redundant. Generally speaking if you have lots of willpower you wouldn't be fat in the first place.

Of course exercise is important, but diving straight into 30 minutes hard training is not the best advice for an obese person. so maybe you aren't a smart guy either. If you the great athlete you claim to be, you would understand the power of psychology but maybe you just search these categories looking for something to rant on about yourself.

The alternative to a six-pack isn't only a beer belly, it can be reasonably level of fitness, like me. Escaping from obesity is very difficult process and requires small sustainable advancements in order to build self esteem and move on.

This method a eating is proven to help, costs nothing and is a healthy way to eat anyway. It may only be good eating habits, but put in a format easy to understand and practice in everyday life.