To Invest A Condo In Pattaya. Will It Be A Good Investment?

[gerry53]

To me it is a personal decision if I want to get tied to real estate here in Thailand. I have always owned houses in my home country but I am now enjoying not having any of the "headaches" such as collecting rent, maintenance, dealing with juristic boards, bad neighbors, taxes and fees, etc, etc. The other nice thing of owning no real estate is as a renter I can move should I get an unbearable neighbor or a karaokee bar opens near by. It also gives me flexibilty should I want to try living in Chiang Mai or Phuket. I want my retirement to be as stress free and as fun as possible.

The other deciding issue for me is I can make far more investing my Thai assets in quality mutual funds than I can in real estate and the profits more than pay for my rent and other expenses. When I sell these my money is in my bank account 4 days later, not so when attempting to sell real estate in this market with it's surplus of units and many projects coming online.

But still the pride and security of home ownership is a hard habit to break though. My 2 bahts worth.

[Rimmer]

A number of posts and quoted replies have been removed please see rule number two. Posts of this nature are fast track to a permanent ban.

[PattayaPhom]

poppycock is what poppycock does - we are all looking at you

I you are so confident in your business perhaps you will share on here what company you represent, Im sure you won't have a problem with my request since you sell yourself as the model realter.......waiting

Would love to but free advertising isnt allowed you know that.

[candid]

poppycock is what poppycock does - we are all looking at you

I you are so confident in your business perhaps you will share on here what company you represent, Im sure you won't have a problem with my request since you sell yourself as the model realter.......waiting

Would love to but free advertising isnt allowed you know that.

Suppose a PM is out of the question?

[jbrain]

poppycock is what poppycock does - we are all looking at you

I you are so confident in your business perhaps you will share on here what company you represent, Im sure you won't have a problem with my request since you sell yourself as the model realter.......waiting

Would love to but free advertising isnt allowed you know that.

Suppose a PM is out of the question?

But what if someone was Somchai the real estate agent, with as only asset a car and a load of copies of title deeds.I experienced a few of them when I had my house for sale recently.Had to expel them parasites with a bat from my property on one occassion.

[sotsira]

Awesome post.

"and saying its trying to warn the naive is utter poppycock."

By your own admission,

"Yes there are many bad agents/brokers"

"do not load prices"

"there are a few that play by the rules"

What rules would that be?

What about the many that dont play by the rules?

Your choise of profession is of no concern to me.

The services you peddle are of no concern to me.

If someone chooses to buy or not buy is of no concern to me.

If someone chooses to rent is of no concern to me.

In an industry awash with spivs conmen wideboys and former barrow boys is it any wonder posters urge the unwary to tread with care and exercise due diligence.

"because they havnt the money to buy themselves"

The finances or lack of, of people who post on here are of no concern to me, frankly I am surprised you can judge posters finances, still never mind.

For the record I believe the OP would be better advised to buy a property in Bkk and rent it out, then use his rental income to rent a property in Pattaya.

PS, still waiting on you enlightening us as to where these properties returning 8% are to be found.

Fully agree with you regarding the real estate agents in Pattaya, i've met and come across many the 9 years

i've been here, and i've yet to recognise any that are professional or trustworthy in the industry.

Every time i bought or sold a condo here i did so directly with the buyer or seller, not only you'll save the rip off

5% commission but you'll have a better chance of selling faster too.

Put a sign on your window or balcony, advertise online in the free ad sections with TV classifieds, Pattaya Trader, Baht&Sold. etc.etc

Put an ad in your condo lobby advertising board.

When you do this though you will also get calls from the agents too looking for potential sellers, so always ask first

when someone calls if they;re agents or potential buyers.

[PattayaPhom]

poppycock is what poppycock does - we are all looking at you

I you are so confident in your business perhaps you will share on here what company you represent, Im sure you won't have a problem with my request since you sell yourself as the model realter.......waiting

Would love to but free advertising isnt allowed you know that.

Suppose a PM is out of the question?

Please feel free to PM me with your requirements, I may have a listing that suits your rental/purchase needs.

[allexx]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

[JSixpack]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

Yes, be afraid. Be very afraid . . . .

[somtommike]

I have two condos in Jomtiem one is 184 square meters which is a nice size 2 bedroom and bought it about 6 years ago for 6.5 million baht when the dollar was around 37 to the baht. I also bought another condo 2 years ago for 2 million baht which is 80 square meters and a good 1 bedroom. I agree that selling condos is very difficult in Thailand so if you are planning on investing then don't expect to get your money out easily however I have had extremely good luck renting my condos. I average about 10 months occupancy a year and get around $30,000 a month for the large one and $25,000 a month for the small one so with all my bills I average between 4 to 7 percent return on my investment which to me is okay. The key is don't buy new unless you can see the building and find a really good firm to use to manage your property while you are gone.

[allexx]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

Yes, be afraid. Be very afraid . . . .

Nope, not afraid...smart.

[sotsira]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

That's a lot of rent to pay every month allex.

Money down the drain if you ask me.

Not very smart really is it.

[smedly]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

That's a lot of rent to pay every month allex.

Money down the drain if you ask me.

Not very smart really is it.

no he means rent them out - aren't you getting this ?

Thailand LOR....entals

His wife goes under the name of foxy lexxy

Edited October 4, 2012 by smedly

[allexx]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

That's a lot of rent to pay every month allex.

Money down the drain if you ask me.

Not very smart really is it.

no he means rent them out - aren't you getting this ?

Thailand LOR....entals

His wife goes under the name of foxy lexxy

Exactly.

[JSixpack]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

Yes, be afraid. Be very afraid . . . .

Nope, not afraid...smart.

Smart like yourself, or smart like Bill Heinecke?

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Never buy anything in Pattaya/Thailand/.

Rent your wife.

Rent your motorbike.

Rent your house/condo…and you’ll be fine.

Yes, be afraid. Be very afraid . . . .

Nope, not afraid...smart.

To the poster who said, "yes, be afraid......be very afraid." I detect fear, but it is not coming from Allexx. Rather, it is coming from a certain poster who seems to be afraid that his reality is an illusion. Renting is a good option, especially in a market that is set to crash. It is also a wise choice in places like Pattaya-Jomtien where "noise pollution" in and around condos has become a major problem. Most people who rent are less attached to one place, unlike those who buy, and can more easily move. Of course, if you are filthy rich it does not really matter if you rent or buy.

[BarryM]

Buy off plan and take the chance that it may never be built or may have defects that you will have little chance of rectifying unless you pay to do so yourself. Buying an established building can also have it's pitfalls - lack of maintenance, connected hiso locals who refuse to pay service charges (do you know who I am types), developers that decide the swimming pool would look nicer filled in and turned into 10 more shophouses......

If you can't afford the whole building - buy in a proper country - KL/Singapore/HK - and us the rental income to pay rent in Thailand.

[JSixpack]

Renting is a good option, especially in a market that is set to crash.

Reminds me of a broken clock that's right once a day.

Been predicting that for what, 15 years or so while you threw away all that rent money when you could have doubled it as a large number of owners did? It was shootin' fish in a barrel right after '97. Ain't happened again yet, don't look likely to soon. Who knows when it might? In any case, no investment is ever 100% safe. Money markets, even banks have been known to fail. How's gold been treatin' ya in the last year? How's your return on the S&P 500 over the last 10 years? Did you hoard your cash under your mattress? It's lost 3% a year or so.

If you're buying a property to live in it long term, any time's a good time to buy. If the market crashes, you've still got your place and eventually prices will come back up, just as they did after 1997--quite nicely, too. And the Thai gov't will help out, as it did then by increasing the permitted foreigner shares.

Buying for speculation, now, is whole 'nother bag. Only a sophisticated investor of means should dare try that IMO. It implies an upscale, quality property on the beach w/ a great seaview that won't be blocked by another development in front of it a la Jomtien Complex.

It is also a wise choice in places like Pattaya-Jomtien where "noise pollution" in and around condos has become a major problem. Most people who rent are less attached to one place, unlike those who buy, and can more easily move. Of course, if you are filthy rich it does not really matter if you rent or buy.

Everyone here has ALREADY agreed on the wisdom of renting in a complex for a while before buying. You're just beating a dead horse as usual.

Edited October 6, 2012 by JSixpack

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Buy off plan and take the chance that it may never be built or may have defects that you will have little chance of rectifying unless you pay to do so yourself. Buying an established building can also have it's pitfalls - lack of maintenance, connected hiso locals who refuse to pay service charges (do you know who I am types), developers that decide the swimming pool would look nicer filled in and turned into 10 more shophouses......

If you can't afford the whole building - buy in a proper country - KL/Singapore/HK - and us the rental income to pay rent in Thailand.

Even if you can afford to buy the entire building, you run the chance of another project breaking the law and building right in front of your investment and blocking your once nice seaview. It has happened before (in Jomtien) and will happen again. Real estate prices in HK and Singapore are so expensive. KL is a bit better. What more needs to be said about the risks associated with virtually any type of investment in Thailand? Interestingly, National Geographic just ran some show on "Bangkok, the rip off capital of the world." I am not sure if that was the precise title, but I was thinking, "why restrict this to Bangkok?" When making any investment, you should proceed with extreme caution over here. And that includes the lawyers that you chose to help you with any real estate deal. What I just said is not based on fear, it is sound advice that reflects reality on the ground.

[ThaiBob]

Renting is a good option, especially in a market that is set to crash.

Reminds me of a broken clock that's right once a day.

Been predicting that for what, 15 years or so while you threw away all that rent money when you could have doubled it as a large number of owners did? It was shootin' fish in a barrel right after '97. Ain't happened again yet, don't look likely to soon. Who knows when it might? In any case, no investment is ever 100% safe. Money markets, even banks have been known to fail. How's gold been treatin' ya in the last year? How's your return on the S&P 500 over the last 10 years? Did you hoard your cash under your mattress? It's lost 3% a year or so.

If you're buying a property to live in it long term, any time's a good time to buy. If the market crashes, you've still got your place and eventually prices will come back up, just as they did after 1997--quite nicely, too. And the Thai gov't will help out, as it did then by increasing the permitted foreigner shares.

Buying for speculation, now, is whole 'nother bag. Only a sophisticated investor of means should dare try that IMO. It implies an upscale, quality property on the beach w/ a great seaview that won't be blocked by another development in front of it a la Jomtien Complex.

It is also a wise choice in places like Pattaya-Jomtien where "noise pollution" in and around condos has become a major problem. Most people who rent are less attached to one place, unlike those who buy, and can more easily move. Of course, if you are filthy rich it does not really matter if you rent or buy.

Everyone here has ALREADY agreed on the wisdom of renting in a complex for a while before buying. You're just beating a dead horse as usual.

An excellent post.

[PattayaPhom]

If buying in Thailand was so bad why have hundreds of thousands foreigners bought here, yes there are a few bad stories but that is mainly down to the purchasers lack of DD, its a very small % compared to those that are happy and have saved money by purchasing. If you choose to rent because of your particular circumstances then fine but that also applies to those that choose to buy. It amazes me people still think of Thailand as a third world country and compare prices to Spain all the time...well Spain has 25% unemployment, 50% in under 24s and is on the brink of collapse, prices there have collapsed 50% in the past few years.

[candid]

If buying in Thailand was so bad why have hundreds of thousands foreigners bought here, yes there are a few bad stories but that is mainly down to the purchasers lack of DD, its a very small % compared to those that are happy and have saved money by purchasing. If you choose to rent because of your particular circumstances then fine but that also applies to those that choose to buy. It amazes me people still think of Thailand as a third world country and compare prices to Spain all the time...well Spain has 25% unemployment, 50% in under 24s and is on the brink of collapse, prices there have collapsed 50% in the past few years.

Stupid comment, indicative of the desperation evident in the selling busines at the moment. The hundreds of thousands bought when the property boom was on. Thailand may have been a good deal back then, not now. Even one so hard headed as yourself knows that the parameters for buying property have changed in the last few years. If you are still clinging to this kind of lifeline statement, then you are way behind the times. I might ask a similar question of you. Why have so many Real Estate agents gone bust or disappeared in the last 5 years? Various answers such as currency fluctuations, less demand as people are struggling in their own countries, more awareness of scams etc. Personally, I think that Real Estate agents have also contributed to the demise of their own industry by lying, cheating, overcharging on sales(try 5% commission in UK, you will have NO business at all). They have been culprits in promoting most of the projects which either remain unfinished or never even started. Renting suits many people and they have their reasons. All of them have been noted in this thread. I prefer to be conned by the traffic police in Pattaya than an underqualified, jumped up throwbacks to UK in the '80s get rich quick era. At least that only costs around 200 baht, not the fortunes to be made by realtors.

[candid]

If buying in Thailand was so bad why have hundreds of thousands foreigners bought here, yes there are a few bad stories but that is mainly down to the purchasers lack of DD, its a very small % compared to those that are happy and have saved money by purchasing. If you choose to rent because of your particular circumstances then fine but that also applies to those that choose to buy. It amazes me people still think of Thailand as a third world country and compare prices to Spain all the time...well Spain has 25% unemployment, 50% in under 24s and is on the brink of collapse, prices there have collapsed 50% in the past few years.

Lack of due diligence is pretty obvious. Trying to get the truth from a Real Estate agent is like getting teeth pulled. And calling Thailand 3rd World is not because it can be compared with Spain's fall in house prices. The problems are completely different from those which exist in your head

[Awohalitsiktoli]

If buying in Thailand was so bad why have hundreds of thousands foreigners bought here, yes there are a few bad stories but that is mainly down to the purchasers lack of DD, its a very small % compared to those that are happy and have saved money by purchasing. If you choose to rent because of your particular circumstances then fine but that also applies to those that choose to buy. It amazes me people still think of Thailand as a third world country and compare prices to Spain all the time...well Spain has 25% unemployment, 50% in under 24s and is on the brink of collapse, prices there have collapsed 50% in the past few years.

Stupid comment, indicative of the desperation evident in the selling busines at the moment. The hundreds of thousands bought when the property boom was on. Thailand may have been a good deal back then, not now. Even one so hard headed as yourself knows that the parameters for buying property have changed in the last few years. If you are still clinging to this kind of lifeline statement, then you are way behind the times. I might ask a similar question of you. Why have so many Real Estate agents gone bust or disappeared in the last 5 years? Various answers such as currency fluctuations, less demand as people are struggling in their own countries, more awareness of scams etc. Personally, I think that Real Estate agents have also contributed to the demise of their own industry by lying, cheating, overcharging on sales(try 5% commission in UK, you will have NO business at all). They have been culprits in promoting most of the projects which either remain unfinished or never even started. Renting suits many people and they have their reasons. All of them have been noted in this thread. I prefer to be conned by the traffic police in Pattaya than an underqualified, jumped up throwbacks to UK in the '80s get rich quick era. At least that only costs around 200 baht, not the fortunes to be made by realtors.

I agree with what you said. Did you read this statement by JSixpack who said: "If the market crashes, you've still got your place and eventually prices will come back up, just as they did after 1997--quite nicely, too." Unbelievable! He is wearing the thickest pair of rose-colored glasses ever made Spain, by the way, is hurting, in large part, due to same type of real estate speculation/hype that is taking place in Thailand. The main difference is that "end result" has already hit Spain...it will hit Thailand later, mainly, I think, because many people w/ money from Bangkok are buying into the Pattaya-Jomtien market (but I think they are increasingly preferring other places, like Hua Hin). And for the record, Thailand is a developing country, least developing country, or Third World country. Hard to believe the other poster said otherwise. I wonder if the real estate agents got together and decdided that it would be better for business if they all started denying that fact. I would not buy into this market. Ask yourself why there is such a massive advertising campaign going on? You can't take a step in Central Festival Mall without tripping over one of these agents desperate to sell something. Ask youself why O1 is still not reaching up to the sky after eight years of hype? In fairness, some people are making a profit--they know when to buy and when to get out of the market, and what to buy and where to buy. I do not think they are in the majority. In fact, I think people who have lost money in this market rarely post here. But do not worry, don't be afraid , even if you buy a grossly overpriced unit and the market crashes after that, you can simply wait 50 years and you will probably get your money back. Wow!

[PattayaPhom]

If buying in Thailand was so bad why have hundreds of thousands foreigners bought here, yes there are a few bad stories but that is mainly down to the purchasers lack of DD, its a very small % compared to those that are happy and have saved money by purchasing. If you choose to rent because of your particular circumstances then fine but that also applies to those that choose to buy. It amazes me people still think of Thailand as a third world country and compare prices to Spain all the time...well Spain has 25% unemployment, 50% in under 24s and is on the brink of collapse, prices there have collapsed 50% in the past few years.

Stupid comment, indicative of the desperation evident in the selling busines at the moment. The hundreds of thousands bought when the property boom was on. Thailand may have been a good deal back then, not now. Even one so hard headed as yourself knows that the parameters for buying property have changed in the last few years. If you are still clinging to this kind of lifeline statement, then you are way behind the times. I might ask a similar question of you. Why have so many Real Estate agents gone bust or disappeared in the last 5 years? Various answers such as currency fluctuations, less demand as people are struggling in their own countries, more awareness of scams etc. Personally, I think that Real Estate agents have also contributed to the demise of their own industry by lying, cheating, overcharging on sales(try 5% commission in UK, you will have NO business at all). They have been culprits in promoting most of the projects which either remain unfinished or never even started. Renting suits many people and they have their reasons. All of them have been noted in this thread. I prefer to be conned by the traffic police in Pattaya than an underqualified, jumped up throwbacks to UK in the '80s get rich quick era. At least that only costs around 200 baht, not the fortunes to be made by realtors.

I would guess the agents that have gone bust didnt do their job properly. Less demand to 5 years ago...thats not so, demand is stonger now than in 2007....stop thinking its just Westerners that buy properties, Indians, Russians, Singaporeans, Koreans, Malaysians and of course the indigenous Thais also....maybe those agents that went bust didnt move with the times....Its banging a head againtst a brick wall but for me business couldnt be better and in fact this is the best year we have had and have taken on 4 more staff to cope with demand....Rent if you want, thats great but dont knock those that wish to buy

[ace]

It's ridiculous to say Thailand is a 3rd world country. The average income is about $6000 p/a. In Cambodia it's about $900.

The sub 2m baht condos offer good yield value although prices havent moved in years, which means no bubble. Also there's increased Chinese demand, and there's 1.2billion people in China, Russian demand (250mill.) and Thai demand. I don't think the high end offers much value though. And there probably is a short term over-build problem.

Sent from my A500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[craigt3365]

I would guess the agents that have gone bust didnt do their job properly. Less demand to 5 years ago...thats not so, demand is stonger now than in 2007....stop thinking its just Westerners that buy properties, Indians, Russians, Singaporeans, Koreans, Malaysians and of course the indigenous Thais also....maybe those agents that went bust didnt move with the times....Its banging a head againtst a brick wall but for me business couldnt be better and in fact this is the best year we have had and have taken on 4 more staff to cope with demand....Rent if you want, thats great but dont knock those that wish to buy

I met an agent a few weeks ago that is doing great. He has several Russian speaking staff and they are driving a huge part of his biz.

Like you said, it's not just Westerners who are buying. And unlike Spain, Thailand and Asia are still growing in terms of their economy. The next wave could be the Chinese???

[SGD]

Another aspect of a condo is you are purchasing a box within a big project, anything outside your box is communal property managed by the "Juristic Person" to which you pay monthly or annual maintenance fees, probably also with new developments there will be a sink fund as well to provide for "Rainy Days" in years to come.

Condominiums can be saddled with cronies of the developer, who control utility supplies and cream off large commissions and it takes years for co owners to get them replaced by that time the sink funds are depleted and the condominium is in debt.

I would advise any one seriously thinking of buying a condo is to look at the second hand market, and check out how well the condo is run, look for minutes of meetings, accounts, at least when you buy second hand and you negotiate well you have a realistic chance of selling it at a comparable market price to which you bought it.

Some of the wisest words I have heard on the subject in years.

Condos are great investments, or at least can be if you visit enough. Without capital growth you probably won't ever break even as you could stick your money in shares and get a reasonable 6% or so as a return which makes 90k a year on a Bt1.5m investment and the same property would probably go for 15k a month. However, you are locking in your rent at today's rates.

However, if you were to go back to 2004 when you got Bt75 for £1 for a short while and this Bt1.5m condo was available for Bt1.m, then in GBP terms, it would have cost you £13,333 against £30,000 today. In such an extreme example, you would have had free vacation rental and seen your investment more than double in value.

Even better would have been trusting to invest in Northshore and getting in way below Bt50k per m2 against north of Bt100k per m2 now. However, you would have to live in it knowing that that rusting steel cage stood unprotected rusting in the Pattaya weather for nigh on a decade after the 1997 crash.

I wouldn't invest now unless I was living there but if I was, I wouldn't hesitate if I had the cash.

[Tolley]

If you have a family here and you want to ensure thay have something when you are gone then sure why not buy.

Now I have run out of reasons for buying property in Thailand.

Everything is really stacked against a foreigner buying property here so I can see no other valid reason for buying other than what i already mentioned.

Better to rent here and invest in your home country where you have some rules that protect you and you have much more possibility of making a good investment return.

I am not saying you cant make money here on property investments but it is not easy and the place is littered with people who didnt make money and who cant sell their existing property.

[PattayaPhom]

If you have a family here and you want to ensure thay have something when you are gone then sure why not buy.

Now I have run out of reasons for buying property in Thailand.

Everything is really stacked against a foreigner buying property here so I can see no other valid reason for buying other than what i already mentioned.

Better to rent here and invest in your home country where you have some rules that protect you and you have much more possibility of making a good investment return.

I am not saying you cant make money here on property investments but it is not easy and the place is littered with people who didnt make money and who cant sell their existing property.

Naitives of USA, most of UK, Spain and parts of Europe would disagree considering prices have dropped North of 50% in some areas...dosnt make Thailand suitable for everyone but the above isnt a particulary good alternative.