Many Nakhon Ratchasima Dams Brimming

[webfact]

Many Nakhon Ratchasima dams brimming

The Nation

NAKHON RATCHASIMA: -- Several reservoirs in Nakhon Ratchasima are full of water due to heavy rain in the past few days, which is threatening to inundate several areas.

Senior irrigation official ML Anumas Thongthaem, however, said such high capacity was natural and would not effect high-lying areas in the province, especially in highly popular Pak Thong Chai districts. The Lam Phra Phloeng 1 reservoir is almost 100 per cent full and is releasing a high volume of water into Lam Phra Phloeng 2 reservoir, which is now 93 per cent full.

Meanwhile, a flash flood inundated 50 houses in Chon Buri's Bang Lamung district, with the highest level of water being 2 metres. The influx began at around 10am after a Saturday night of heavy downpours coupled with high tide, which slows the drainage of flood water out to the sea in the coastal province.

Separately, Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra pleaded with residents in the capital "to be patient" as flood water remained stagnant in Bankgok, saying that rain water exceeding 60mm per hour would need time to recede. He called on Bangkokians to also "notice" that areas where there was stagnant flood water would not see a recurrence of floods.

He said the government should also be held responsible along with the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration for stagnant flood water, which was caused by underground sewers being clogged with stones and sand, because dredging of clogged sewers was shared equally by both authorities. "The BMA is being heavily criticised for flood water lasting for two hours, but the government is not attacked for floods which last days," he complained.

-- The Nation 2012-10-01

[Thai at Heart]

Two years ago korat went under, last year bangkok.

Is it impossible to not sacrifice one or the other with this system of dams?

[asiawatcher]

If a dam is at 100% and its sub downstream also near capacity, it would be sensible to begin releasing some of it even if high tides are slowing drainage. Because once full, then it will overflow anyway. Better to release some now from both before any chance of constant rain to push it all into out of control mode.

[LuckyLew]

"Senior irrigation official ML Anumas Thongthaem, however, said such high capacity was natural and would not effect high-lying areas in the province, especially in highly popular Pak Thong Chai districts. The Lam Phra Phloeng 1 reservoir is almost 100 per cent full and is releasing a high volume of water into Lam Phra Phloeng 2 reservoir, which is now 93 per cent full."

Great for those in high-lying areas ...

but this also means those in low lying areas are screwed

This guy is a genious, like saying "if you are on top of everest, you will not got flooded"

[Thai at Heart]

"Senior irrigation official ML Anumas Thongthaem, however, said such high capacity was natural and would not effect high-lying areas in the province, especially in highly popular Pak Thong Chai districts. The Lam Phra Phloeng 1 reservoir is almost 100 per cent full and is releasing a high volume of water into Lam Phra Phloeng 2 reservoir, which is now 93 per cent full."

Great for those in high-lying areas ...

but this also means those in low lying areas are screwed

This guy is a genious, like saying "if you are on top of everest, you will not got flooded"

INdeed, those living in national parks and on the top of mountains won't be affected. Duh.........

[hellodolly]

"Senior irrigation official ML Anumas Thongthaem, however, said such high capacity was natural and would not effect high-lying areas in the province, especially in highly popular Pak Thong Chai districts. The Lam Phra Phloeng 1 reservoir is almost 100 per cent full and is releasing a high volume of water into Lam Phra Phloeng 2 reservoir, which is now 93 per cent full."

Great for those in high-lying areas ...

but this also means those in low lying areas are screwed

This guy is a genious, like saying "if you are on top of everest, you will not got flooded"

You beat me to it. Why does the government put up with such incompetence. Is he related to Yingluck?

Also what are they doing about the sinking of Bangkok. The drainage system sinks with the rest of the city.

Eventually the boats will have to be pushing the water uphill to get it to sea level.

Edited October 1, 2012 by hellodolly

[ResX]

Two years ago korat went under, last year bangkok.

Is it impossible to not sacrifice one or the other with this system of dams?

If you tell me the total strorage of dams in the central region I think I can work something. Whether Thailand has adequate dams in the center region or not, overall evaluation so far about flood mitigation and control performance, strategy and execution, I think the score is less than 40% out of 100% possible score. This is the score base on my evaluation. Given a year grace period with TBH 350billion at their perusal, I think they should have done it better than this.

It is about a 5-6 weeks to go. Some of the dams at the central region have been beaten dearly. Obvious this time is a lot better than last year where the two monsters in the north had been beaten almost two months before the peak period. For this year as I mentioned many times, too much emphasized on "the dug in defence" in the north may help flood waters from the north from reaching central region prematurely, but it won't help dams in central region to be better prepared.

Edited October 1, 2012 by ResX

[ResX]

"Senior irrigation official ML Anumas Thongthaem, however, said such high capacity was natural and would not effect high-lying areas in the province, especially in highly popular Pak Thong Chai districts. The Lam Phra Phloeng 1 reservoir is almost 100 per cent full and is releasing a high volume of water into Lam Phra Phloeng 2 reservoir, which is now 93 per cent full."

Great for those in high-lying areas ...

but this also means those in low lying areas are screwed

This guy is a genious, like saying "if you are on top of everest, you will not got flooded"

Pray the peak is over. Otherwise it is going to be another painful year for those who stay in the central region and some areas near BKK. Some areas in center region are almost left defenceless by now. If good luck is not with Thailand, even dams can turn out to be the most efficient flood making machines. Over filled dams are going to work against the will of many population in the center region.

[vijer]

What really makes me laugh, is that the Thai government earmarked 120 billion bhat to fix the flooding problem, but I have heard several reports on Thai English news that the government is using several thousand prisoners to clean the sewers. Is the Thai government paying the prisoners? No that would be silly. So what actually did the 120 billion pay for? Clearly some scheming politician figured out how to siphon off a chunk of money that would have been used to clean the sewers and still get the sewers cleaned.

On another note I heard that the prisoners found sand bags, cement bags, and broken blocks in the sewers. The Democrats claim that it was planted there to make the BMA look bad, clearly he doesn't know how the average Thai construction worker deals with waste removal. In my area the builders routinely dump their waste into the swamp area alongside the road, more than 20 truckloads since I have been living here (six months). Also, I have noticed several pickups pull over and dump trash in the ditch. I believe these sand bags and concrete bags were extra and the workers just left them in the most convenient spot, the sewer. TiT, they have no pride but the are very prideful.

[Crushdepth]

You can fill a dam with a few days of rain? Bullshit.

The idiots that mismanaged the dams last year still have their jobs, and so do the politicians that meddle in their management. There's the problem.

[rakman]

"Senior irrigation official ML Anumas Thongthaem, however, said such high capacity was natural and would not effect high-lying areas in the province, especially in highly popular Pak Thong Chai districts. The Lam Phra Phloeng 1 reservoir is almost 100 per cent full and is releasing a high volume of water into Lam Phra Phloeng 2 reservoir, which is now 93 per cent full."

Great for those in high-lying areas ...

but this also means those in low lying areas are screwed

This guy is a genious, like saying "if you are on top of everest, you will not got flooded"

I always check to make sure I'm not living below a dam, flood plain or below the course of water.

[Credo]

I know a nice family who built their house on high ground far away from any dams, but it was a nasty flash flood and landslide that messed up their house.

[DeepInTheForest]

A partial quote:

What really makes me laugh, is that the Thai government earmarked 120 billion bhat to fix the flooding problem, but I have heard several reports on Thai English news that the government is using several thousand prisoners to clean the sewers. Is the Thai government paying the prisoners? No that would be silly. So what actually did the 120 billion pay for? Clearly some scheming politician figured out how to siphon off a chunk of money that would have been used to clean the sewers and still get the sewers cleaned.

A worthwhile question. It is unfortunatley difficult to answer. For a larger overview of purported spending, see below. Some of the funds, while having been disbursed to various departments, may not have been spent yet. There is no breakdown I can find on funds spent so far, what they accomplished, etc.

On 19 January of this year, Reuters published the following summary of where flood spending was allocated. On paper, it looks reasonable. But in practice...

PROJECTS

* The Chao Phraya river basin will be divided into two areas. The first area of 35,000 sq km is most vulnerable to floods. It is home to 18 million people, with 80 percent agricultural land and the rest for residential, commercial and industrial use, a statement from the Deputy Prime Minister's office showed.

The second area of 123,000 sq km is outside the flood zone. It is home to 7 million people, living mostly in forest and agricultural areas and less likely to be badly flooded.

* A 10 billion baht plan for forest restoration and conservation plus the construction of dikes along upstream areas of the Ping, Nan, Wang, Yom and Sakae Krang river basins. The Ping and Nan are main tributaries of the Chao Phraya, which flows from north to south through Bangkok.

* 50 billion baht to build reservoirs along the Yom, Nan, Sakae Krang and Pa Sak river basins.

* 60 billion baht to convert 2 million rai (800,000 acres) of Chao Phraya plains farmland for the retention of 6-10 billion cubic metres of floodwater.

* 120 billion baht for the construction of floodways and flood diversion channels allowing flows of at least 1,500 million cubic metres per second. Immediate work this year would include the enhancement of dikes, sluice gates and canals.

* 50 billion baht for city and land use planning.

* 7 billion baht for "the enhancement of rivers and dikes."

* 3 billion baht for database and warning systems and the establishment of related organizations.

FUNDING

* On January 10, the cabinet approved a decree that authorizes the government to seek funding of 350 billion baht ($11 billion) for projects that involve rebuilding and flood prevention work.

As a comparison, the government's budget deficit for the fiscal year to September 2012 was originally supposed to be 350 billion baht. The cabinet approved an increase to 400 billion in mid-October to allow it to spend more on reconstruction.

* Deputy Prime Minister and incoming Finance Minister Kittirat Na Ranong said at the weekend that some of the funding would come from overseas sources, with technical assistance, implying it would be a multilateral lender such as the World Bank.

However, he said most of the funding would come from local sources. He did not specify whether this would be from bond sales, bank loans or other sources.

He said 17 billion baht of the spending would be accounted for in the 2011/12 fiscal budget.

* He has said the borrowing would raise the ratio of public debt to GDP by just 2-3 percentage points. Debt is expected to rise to 43.5 percent of GDP this fiscal year from 41.03 percent in October. By law it can go as high as 60 percent.

* The cabinet also agreed to support the establishment of a flood-related insurance fund. The Finance Ministry would seek funding of 50 billion baht for this.

* In addition, the Bank of Thailand is empowered to provide 300 billion baht ($9.45 billion) in soft loans to help manufacturers and individuals hurt by the floods. The Bank of Thailand could ask commercial banks to provide 30 percent of the total, Kittirat said.

* To help with the funding, the government has, by decree, shifted responsibility for servicing 1.14 trillion baht ($35.9 billion) in debt owed by the Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF) to the central bank.

The FIDF is a special vehicle used to bail out banks during the Asian crisis. Its interest costs amount to more than 60 billion baht a year, paid until now from the fiscal budget.

The principal was already the responsibility of the central bank. It was supposed to pay this down from its profits, but in most recent years the central bank has made a loss.

The Bank of Thailand had opposed the transfer of responsibility.

Outgoing Finance Minister Thirachai has said the ministry would keep issuing bonds to roll over matured FIDF debt until the central bank came up with a plan to pay it off. About 340 billion baht of FIDF bonds will mature this year, he added.

Bank of Thailand Governor Prasarn Trairatvorakul has said the commitment to continue issuing government bonds to cover the FIDF debt ensured the central bank would not have to print money to cover it, which could have fuelled inflation.

(Compiled by Ploy Ten Kate and Orathai Sriring; Editing by Alan Raybould)

http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/factbox-thailands-flood-management-plans-funding-060614127.htm

Edited October 2, 2012 by DeepInTheForest

[rubl]

A worthwhile question. It is unfortunatley difficult to answer. For a larger overview or purported spending, see below. Some of the funds, while having been disbursed to various departments, may not have been spent yet.

On 19 January of this year, Reuters published the following summary of where flood spending was allocated:

PROJECTS

... long list removed, just click on the link provided by DitF ...

(Compiled by Ploy Ten Kate and Orathai Sriring; Editing by Alan Raybould)

http://en-maktoob.ne...g-060614127.htm

The interesting part is that there are actually TWO budgets:

1.) THB 120 billion for short term corrections

2.) THB 350 billion for longer term strategy and implementation.

The THB 120b has been spread over department, provinces and whatever. The THB 350b is only 'allocated', various proposals are still being studied although a shortlist seems to have been selected with the work to be done divided into more managable parts.