Dams In Thailand Drained To Make Way For Tropical Storm " Gaemi "

[webfact]

STORM PREPARATION

Dams drained to make way for "Gaemi"

THE NATION

BMA workers use a backhoe to fill in a sinkhole on outbound Ngam Wong Wan Road in front of Vibhavadi Hospital yesterday morning. The hole, which was about one metre wide and two metres deep, caused traffic jams

BANGKOK: -- Two reservoirs in Nakhon Ratchasima are being drained in order to enable them to fully accommodate a large volume of water expected with a major storm, which will cause torrential rains this weekend.

The government and the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration are also getting ready to implement immediate response measures, including the drastic drainage of major dams in the North and the systematic opening of floodgates, to brace for heavy downpours when the Gaemi Tropical Storm arrives in Thailand this weekend.

Lam Phra Phlueng Reservoirs 1 and 2 were full to the brim and draining was underway, senior irrigation official Prathueng Wandee said. Residents living south to the reservoirs had been warned of possible flash floods caused by the draining coupled with the heavy downpours the storm will bring, he said.

Dams and reservoirs in Udon Thani had space for more water, indeed cloud-seeding efforts were needed in some areas where rain has been scarce, senior irrigation official Banyaluck Chalongsapphanyoo said.

The Huay Luang reservoir, the largest in Udon Thani, along with other reservoirs in the province are only half full.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday ordered systematic drainage of dams in the North and once again asked the BMA to continue dredging the capital's underground sewers. In addition, new traffic measures to cope with inevitable congestion during flooding in both Bangkok and elsewhere are being worked out.

Yesterday, Deputy Transport Minister Chatchart Sithipan informed the Cabinet of the new traffic regulations put in place so far. Asked about a new policy that allows government offices to close ahead of normal hours in case of heavy flooding, Yingluck told reporters to talk to Chatchart.

Separately, Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra ordered two major watergates in eastern Bangkok to be opened and closed on a contingency basis so officials have the flexibility to make decisions on their own. However, he insists that there is close and constant coordination between the BMA and area irrigation offices.

In addition, all 50 district offices have received relief supplies, sandbags and equipment for immediate distribution and all district chiefs will meet today to seek solutions for residential areas deemed the most vulnerable or those located outside the main flood barricades.

-- The Nation 2012-10-03

[whybother]

Lets empty the dams and cause flash floods, so that we can fill the dams up to stop floods.

[KireB]

Just think about the Formula 1 plans and seeing that hole.

[ResX]

Lets empty the dams and cause flash floods, so that we can fill the dams up to stop floods.

That is the problem. Poor choice of flood defence strategy, as I can see. They should have done this 10 months ago. Rather they opted to draw down dams in the north safer than the safe levels, leaving down stream dams had little oppurtunity to draw downs theirs.

[Tatsujin]

Are we at storm #8 now of the 12 they said they could cope with?

[Mosha]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

[MaxLee]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

That's because they're stupid and greedy...

[belg]

is it true, is bangkok (full of) sinking (holes)

555

[kurnell]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

[cloghead]

This projected track was published Sunday night by the Joint Typhoon Warning Center...

[GentlemanJim]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

I was having a ponder about this, and also the Thai education system lacking critical thinking and any questioning of authority. I honestly believe that there ARE clever intelligent capable people in Thailand, who really did excel in their chosen specialization at University. The problem is that they do not question authority or raise a point of opposition if they believe something is wrong. So when for example, the flood water specialists probably come out with a sensible plan to manage the water year around, if that does not support the latest requirements of uneducated, morally bereft politicians, then when the politicians or Ministers give a directive on how the flood waters should be managed, the real specialists just fall in to compliance mode and do as they are told. The Politicians are making decisions based purely on what will gain them the best political or monetary advantage, whilst the 'specialists' are making decisions based on what course of action is more likely to keep their cosy little job secure. The problem is endemic and embedded and there is little we can do, the country is <deleted>!

[Mosha]

This projected track was published Sunday night by the Joint Typhoon Warning Center...

Thai channel my wife watched yesterday showed it veering on a more southerly track. The eye crossing the northern portion of the peninsula.

[webfact]

PM orders agencies to prepare response measures for Gaemi

BANGKOK, Oct 3 -- Prime Minsiter Yingluck Shinawatra on Tuesday has ordered agencies concerned to prepare response measures for tropical storm Gaemi that will impact Thailand over the weekend.

The premier said she has instructed the authorities to release water retained in dams upstream and to clean up the Bangkok drainage system, even as she asserted that the government would fully help the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority (BMA) and the surrounding provinces to drain water in case of heavy rain from the storm. More pumps will be installed to help drain water more quickly.

She said Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt is assigned to oversee traffic in Bangkok and adjacent areas to ease the heavy traffic after the rain.

The Meteorological Department has issued its eighth warning on tropical cyclone Gaemi that as of 4am today is in the mid-South China Sea, centered about 880km east of Da Nang, Vietnam with maximum sustained winds of about 75km/hr. The storm is moving east-southeast at about 10km/hr.

The weather agency said the storm is expected to make landfall over central Vietnam on Friday and saturday, and will affect on Thailand on the following days.

Meanwhile the stronger southwest monsoon prevails over the Andaman Sea, the South and the Gulf of Thailand. These will cause torrential rain in some places of the lower North, Northeast, Central, Eastern and upper Southern regions of the country. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-10-03

[Thai at Heart]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

I was having a ponder about this, and also the Thai education system lacking critical thinking and any questioning of authority. I honestly believe that there ARE clever intelligent capable people in Thailand, who really did excel in their chosen specialization at University. The problem is that they do not question authority or raise a point of opposition if they believe something is wrong. So when for example, the flood water specialists probably come out with a sensible plan to manage the water year around, if that does not support the latest requirements of uneducated, morally bereft politicians, then when the politicians or Ministers give a directive on how the flood waters should be managed, the real specialists just fall in to compliance mode and do as they are told. The Politicians are making decisions based purely on what will gain them the best political or monetary advantage, whilst the 'specialists' are making decisions based on what course of action is more likely to keep their cosy little job secure. The problem is endemic and embedded and there is little we can do, the country is <deleted>!

I have a friend who amazingly studied engineering specialising in dam_n construction and management. She has her own health food company.

There are plenty of qualified forward thinking people around, it is just that choosing to go to work for the government is largely unattractive proposition for most people. Join the heirarchy at the bottom, get poo poo'd from minute one because you know infinitely more about it than your boss, put your brain in neutral and wait 30 years to hopefully get a position.

I am not saying that all Thai universities are bad, but can you imagine how the university system has developed in Thailand in 30 years. Today the graduates leaving know INFINITELY more about it than people with 30 years working experience. I have seen it also, iin a very large private company here in the environmental management department. The boss has reached his level, has his company beemer, delegates everything out to the youngsters, largely ignores any of their recommendations because it makes him look unknowledgeable and then proceeds to build control systems that are 30 years out of date.

So the younger graduates, work for the company for 2 or 3 years, put it on their CV's and disappear to work somewhere else. There are huge problems in culture here that prevent the best and the brightest rising up the ladder either in government or private industry.

[Thai at Heart]

PM orders agencies to prepare response measures for Gaemi

BANGKOK, Oct 3 -- Prime Minsiter Yingluck Shinawatra on Tuesday has ordered agencies concerned to prepare response measures for tropical storm Gaemi that will impact Thailand over the weekend.

The premier said she has instructed the authorities to release water retained in dams upstream and to clean up the Bangkok drainage system, even as she asserted that the government would fully help the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority (BMA) and the surrounding provinces to drain water in case of heavy rain from the storm. More pumps will be installed to help drain water more quickly.

She said Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt is assigned to oversee traffic in Bangkok and adjacent areas to ease the heavy traffic after the rain.

The Meteorological Department has issued its eighth warning on tropical cyclone Gaemi that as of 4am today is in the mid-South China Sea, centered about 880km east of Da Nang, Vietnam with maximum sustained winds of about 75km/hr. The storm is moving east-southeast at about 10km/hr.

The weather agency said the storm is expected to make landfall over central Vietnam on Friday and saturday, and will affect on Thailand on the following days.

Meanwhile the stronger southwest monsoon prevails over the Andaman Sea, the South and the Gulf of Thailand. These will cause torrential rain in some places of the lower North, Northeast, Central, Eastern and upper Southern regions of the country. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-10-03

I seem to remember there was a little problem with flooding a year or so ago.

They are preparing 2 days ahead to clean the drains? Jeez, these people are on the ball.

[rollrunna]

Incredibly hard to believe that gov. policy is being made 'ad hoc' according to a weather forecast.... errr lets start dredging the sewers there is a black cloud in the sky......sorry if we have flooded you, we have to run off as we want to prevent flooding.... and did i read that they are ' seeding clouds' in Udon T, because the reservoirs are only Half full ??.....Monsoons are an annual season...will be here next year as well... and because they are, Thailand and Asia generally are able to grow their greatest staple and Export.... Rice..................... ok there maybe more rain now with global warming, but it has been raining here for many thousands of years, surely infrastructure should be in place and maintained by now !! or was letting some of the populace drown every year ,acceptable collateral damage, (before international news coverage )

[kurnell]

PM orders agencies to prepare response measures for Gaemi

BANGKOK, Oct 3 -- Prime Minsiter Yingluck Shinawatra on Tuesday has ordered agencies concerned to prepare response measures for tropical storm Gaemi that will impact Thailand over the weekend.

The premier said she has instructed the authorities to release water retained in dams upstream and to clean up the Bangkok drainage system, even as she asserted that the government would fully help the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority (BMA) and the surrounding provinces to drain water in case of heavy rain from the storm. More pumps will be installed to help drain water more quickly.

She said Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt is assigned to oversee traffic in Bangkok and adjacent areas to ease the heavy traffic after the rain.

The Meteorological Department has issued its eighth warning on tropical cyclone Gaemi that as of 4am today is in the mid-South China Sea, centered about 880km east of Da Nang, Vietnam with maximum sustained winds of about 75km/hr. The storm is moving east-southeast at about 10km/hr.

The weather agency said the storm is expected to make landfall over central Vietnam on Friday and saturday, and will affect on Thailand on the following days.

Meanwhile the stronger southwest monsoon prevails over the Andaman Sea, the South and the Gulf of Thailand. These will cause torrential rain in some places of the lower North, Northeast, Central, Eastern and upper Southern regions of the country. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-10-03

I seem to remember there was a little problem with flooding a year or so ago.

They are preparing 2 days ahead to clean the drains? Jeez, these people are on the ball.

Doing something with their balls, that's for sure

[rollrunna]

perhaps they could evacuate and relocate Bangkok !.... dam up watercourses and flood channels as necessary and create a huge reservoir...this could serve as a great flood prevention to the rest of the country and would be an extra tourist attraction, ..sailing..waterskiing, fishing.... and an extra saving of the costs of millions of sandbags.

Even K Canute knew the score.....( yes..i dont live there )...

[pauljones]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

If there is a lack of rain, there will be a drought and people will be moaning they drained the dams...

Are these dams reservoirs or flood control? Can't be both, no?

[Mosha]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

If there is a lack of rain, there will be a drought and people will be moaning they drained the dams...

Are these dams reservoirs or flood control? Can't be both, no?

I didn't say empty the dams, I said control the level, I think there is a difference.

[h90]

and don't forget that usually you need to pay bribe to get promoted. Knowledge isn't important.

[hellodolly]

is it true, is bangkok (full of) sinking (holes)

555

The whole city is sinking including it's drainage system.

[hellodolly]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

I was having a ponder about this, and also the Thai education system lacking critical thinking and any questioning of authority. I honestly believe that there ARE clever intelligent capable people in Thailand, who really did excel in their chosen specialization at University. The problem is that they do not question authority or raise a point of opposition if they believe something is wrong. So when for example, the flood water specialists probably come out with a sensible plan to manage the water year around, if that does not support the latest requirements of uneducated, morally bereft politicians, then when the politicians or Ministers give a directive on how the flood waters should be managed, the real specialists just fall in to compliance mode and do as they are told. The Politicians are making decisions based purely on what will gain them the best political or monetary advantage, whilst the 'specialists' are making decisions based on what course of action is more likely to keep their cosy little job secure. The problem is endemic and embedded and there is little we can do, the country is <deleted>!

Kinda when they told the worlds foremost experts on water control (the Dutch) no they did not need their expertize.

[TheKrayTriplet]

Lets empty the dams and cause flash floods, so that we can fill the dams up to stop floods.

That is the problem. Poor choice of flood defence strategy, as I can see. They should have done this 10 months ago. Rather they opted to draw down dams in the north safer than the safe levels, leaving down stream dams had little oppurtunity to draw downs theirs.

Aren't these reservoirs used for flood control, hydropower and irrigation purposes?

[ResX]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

Certain dams require close to a year to prepare themselves for floods. Those two dams in the north falls under this category.

In general the shorter period to prepare for flood the more tendency for flash floods to oocur since for a given volume of water to be drawn down, the discharge flow rate is inversely proportional to draw down period. For example if you opt to draw down 10 billion cubic meters of water from those two dams in the nort in 24 days you will see the level of flood similar to the 2011 floods, even if you assume no additional flow at downstream.

How much water dams in north released the first 10 days during the 2011 floods? If you know the figure then you have understood 40% of the 2011 flood problem. It was said such released was done under duress. Really? I wish I know for sure. It is only possible if I know the detail design of the dams.

[ResX]

Lets empty the dams and cause flash floods, so that we can fill the dams up to stop floods.

That is the problem. Poor choice of flood defence strategy, as I can see. They should have done this 10 months ago. Rather they opted to draw down dams in the north safer than the safe levels, leaving down stream dams had little oppurtunity to draw downs theirs.

Aren't these reservoirs used for flood control, hydropower and irrigation purposes?

Yes, indeed. If they draw down close to the bottom of the live storage levels then it is a matter of fact that they have jeorpordized irrigation requirement. They should have drawn down to a level that the biggest flood in 200 years will not able climb to the critical operating level. That what one of the Dutch experts told them. By now they have drawn down in such a manner that almost two the biggest flood in 200 years will not able to reach that critical level. I think they have just overkilled the flood upstream to those two dams. In an attempt to reach such extreme draw down, they have indirectly invited more frequent flash floods. If it is okay with everybody there then I have little to complain. But if you are the interested party you deserve to know what are getting out of their opted flood control strategy.

[ResX]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

If there is a lack of rain, there will be a drought and people will be moaning they drained the dams...

Are these dams reservoirs or flood control? Can't be both, no?

Those two dams are multi purpose. Their wise operational concept is they have to be operated in such a manner all purposes, especially the main purposes such as power generation, irrigation and flood control share the risk of the dams fail to perform as expected equally, or within the agreed risk.

[ResX]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

There are too few people in Thailand clever enough to think of this and none of them are in a position to make this sort of decision. I think we could pick a new government made up entiry of TV forum members and they would do a much better job

If there is a lack of rain, there will be a drought and people will be moaning they drained the dams...

Are these dams reservoirs or flood control? Can't be both, no?

They were designed at least for both.

[LomSak27]

Why don't they control the levels from the start of the monsoon season?

Well I take it they did try a bit - end June beginning of July the Nan River was 10 or 15 feet above normal in P-loke. They kept it going to 10 days or so. This of course when it was barely raining. At the time the local comment was, hope they keep some water behind the dams, because if its not a heavy rainy season in the months ahead, irrigation water for rice will be hammered.

Gee if only we could control the weather

[vijer]

Dams and reservoirs in Udon Thani had space for more water, indeed cloud-seeding efforts were needed in some areas where rain has been scarce, senior irrigation official Banyaluck Chalongsapphanyoo said.

This situation is going to get worse, drought So while the government could be pumping the excess water to areas of Thailand that desperately need it, instead they are filling their pockets with cash (120 billion or more) and dumping water down stream to flood areas already saturated.