(Pure) Gasoline Not To Be Sold In Thailand After January 2013

[Payboy]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Isn't biodiesel here already?

I was alluding to the government making it the only diesel available same as with the gasohol. I understand diesels can run on vegetable oil. Something to consider, recycle all that oil from restaurants and vendors.

I'm going to fill up at McD and get fries with that.

[Tywais]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Isn't biodiesel here already?

I was alluding to the government making it the only diesel available same as with the gasohol. I understand diesels can run on vegetable oil. Something to consider, recycle all that oil from restaurants and vendors.

I'm going to fill up at McD and get fries with that.

[osten]

If anything like using gasohol in boat engines, there is only corrosion damage to fuel lines if vehicle not used for long time. Otherwise, no problems.

Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited October 6, 2012 by osten

[canuckamuck]

//note -Wonder how they are going to 'compensate' the motorists? Pay for all the modifications, replace engines, etc? The total number of vehicles doesn't feel quite right either.

In my village only about 10% of the motorcycles would be able to run gasohol. On the farm the two strokers get rebuilt instead of traded because they are better for the job.

So if my village is representational, and I have been to quite a few other to assume it is. Then the government will need to be compensating 90% of the motorcycle owners in the mountain regions at least.

Of course they will get around it by asking for proof of registration. Probably half the bikes here haven't been registered in the last 5 years. We have 2 that fit that category. They are farm vehicles not cruisers.

[canuckamuck]

Has anyone ever seen gasohol being sold in small villages? You can drive an hour in either direction from my place and not see it once.

[hakku]

i think everybody is going a bit overboard on this, unless we're all driving lamborghinis at the limit of their performance all the time and my guess is that we're not. Gasohol standard is E10, meaning 10% ethanol in the mix. from engineering perspective, you'd need to feed a bit more fuel to the engine (3%) to make sure the car wont run to lean. Most electronic ecu will handle that margin easily. I'm not mentioning carburettors for cars since that's antique. In case of stationary engines, they are per definition not performance engines and designed to run on crap, no trouble there.

Then the so called erosion; alcohol/ethanol has a cleaning and degreasing effect, so has regular fuel, no issue with that. The only problem might be that if you switch you'll loosen lots of dirt and crap in the fuel system due to the cleaning effects and that might initially cause some issues, but nothing that a good fuel filter and replacement cant handle.

that leaves the rubber hoses and some of the seals/gaskets in older vehicles (mainly before 1997 so thats 15 years old) being sensitive or not able to withstand the ethanol. you either replace these with modern materials or you just see what happens.

I honestly dont think its as big a deal as people make out of it.

Collectors cars and high performance cars; for collectors cars or classics, you can just order special fuels, 100 octane avgas with lead or 98 octane or 102 octane race fuels, yes i know more expensive but if you collect multi million baht classics, 80 baht a liter shouldn't be a problem.

For the rest, just don't bother.

Hak

I ran my 993 on gasohol 95 which is a 15 year old, no issues except initial fouling of fuel system when the ethanol cleans the the dirt out. All the later supercars in Thailand use Shell V-power gasohol 95, the ecu will adjust fuel and ignition to avoid detonation and lean running with the effect being that they will probably not be able to generate their peak power and torque figures as advertised, but you must be a big boy to notice that in 400hp over machines. It hardly affects the red light drag race. Once you're on track things change and you want to maximize performance and therefore buy the right fuels.

As with many things, if you want to extract the last bit of performance, sure it matters, if you drive your camry automatic through bangkok it really isn't relevant. Even if you cruise your Ferrari 458 you wont miss the last 25 hp.

and i do agree that technically there are disadvantages using this fuel in cars not build for it, but the same goes for lpg and ngv etc and nobody bothers about that. Just want to put the perspective....

OK so for most of us no problem but what about the quite large number of super cars that I see in Pattaya during the weekend, 99% coming from BKK, I don't think they have enough fuel onboard to go BKK-Patt-BKK and parading their cars on Beach Road as well.

Amazing Thailand.

[transam]

i think everybody is going a bit overboard on this, unless we're all driving lamborghinis at the limit of their performance all the time and my guess is that we're not. Gasohol standard is E10, meaning 10% ethanol in the mix. from engineering perspective, you'd need to feed a bit more fuel to the engine (3%) to make sure the car wont run to lean. Most electronic ecu will handle that margin easily. I'm not mentioning carburettors for cars since that's antique. In case of stationary engines, they are per definition not performance engines and designed to run on crap, no trouble there.

Then the so called erosion; alcohol/ethanol has a cleaning and degreasing effect, so has regular fuel, no issue with that. The only problem might be that if you switch you'll loosen lots of dirt and crap in the fuel system due to the cleaning effects and that might initially cause some issues, but nothing that a good fuel filter and replacement cant handle.

that leaves the rubber hoses and some of the seals/gaskets in older vehicles (mainly before 1997 so thats 15 years old) being sensitive or not able to withstand the ethanol. you either replace these with modern materials or you just see what happens.

I honestly dont think its as big a deal as people make out of it.

Collectors cars and high performance cars; for collectors cars or classics, you can just order special fuels, 100 octane avgas with lead or 98 octane or 102 octane race fuels, yes i know more expensive but if you collect multi million baht classics, 80 baht a liter shouldn't be a problem.

For the rest, just don't bother.

Hak

I ran my 993 on gasohol 95 which is a 15 year old, no issues except initial fouling of fuel system when the ethanol cleans the the dirt out. All the later supercars in Thailand use Shell V-power gasohol 95, the ecu will adjust fuel and ignition to avoid detonation and lean running with the effect being that they will probably not be able to generate their peak power and torque figures as advertised, but you must be a big boy to notice that in 400hp over machines. It hardly affects the red light drag race. Once you're on track things change and you want to maximize performance and therefore buy the right fuels.

As with many things, if you want to extract the last bit of performance, sure it matters, if you drive your camry automatic through bangkok it really isn't relevant. Even if you cruise your Ferrari 458 you wont miss the last 25 hp.

and i do agree that technically there are disadvantages using this fuel in cars not build for it, but the same goes for lpg and ngv etc and nobody bothers about that. Just want to put the perspective....

OK so for most of us no problem but what about the quite large number of super cars that I see in Pattaya during the weekend, 99% coming from BKK, I don't think they have enough fuel onboard to go BKK-Patt-BKK and parading their cars on Beach Road as well.

Amazing Thailand.

Depends on their induction system. Weber, Holley, SU, or fuel injected. All different.

[Jitar]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Isn't biodiesel here already?

I was alluding to the government making it the only diesel available same as with the gasohol. I understand diesels can run on vegetable oil. Something to consider, recycle all that oil from restaurants and vendors.

Been there done that. The Thai government mandated all diesel to be B2 biodiesel several years ago and planned to go to B5. This was about as controversial as Gasohol for users of old diesels (Fishermen, farmers and heavy machinery contractors etc).

B2 did replace normal diesel for a short time in 2009 or 2010 and a few old engines with rotary fuel pumps suffered fuel leaks as a result. Some time in 2011 it was quietly dropped, apparently because of short supply or cost of palm oil.

For Diesel there was a lot of debate about issues for old engines above B2, similar to the debate for Gasohol above E10. Unfortunately in Thailand information about changing fuel standards or the pros and cons of the different fuel is often poor.

[Khonwan]

I have used only B5 throughout all the years it was available here for my Vigo, Strada, Ford tractor, iron buffalo, and small diesel generator. Similarly, I have used E10 for all our family motorbikes on the farm plus small Honda-engine pumps.

Ethanol in Thailand is derived from two sources: molasses and cassava. I choose bio-fuels since I am a cassava farmer. Cassava is one of the major crops farmed by mostly impoverished farmers: the switch to ethanol mixtures will certainly help a huge number of these farmers to improve their standard of living.

I have never noticed any damage to my engines through my use of B5 or E10.

[Rancid]

Minister: I have just made a decision...

Sir Hunphrey: That is a very courageous decision Minister.

Minister: (In panic) Courageous, what do you mean courageous?

This will also dawn on the Thai government as they consider whether to strip motor vehicles from their key poorer constituents to appease key donators. I wouldn't be panicking about it.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Rancid

[anon210]

I have used only B5 throughout all the years it was available here for my Vigo, Strada, Ford tractor, iron buffalo, and small diesel generator. Similarly, I have used E10 for all our family motorbikes on the farm plus small Honda-engine pumps.

Ethanol in Thailand is derived from two sources: molasses and cassava. I choose bio-fuels since I am a cassava farmer. Cassava is one of the major crops farmed by mostly impoverished farmers: the switch to ethanol mixtures will certainly help a huge number of these farmers to improve their standard of living.

I have never noticed any damage to my engines through my use of B5 or E10.

Do you really believe you are going to see an improvement in the standards of farmers through the imposition of ethanol? It will only profit to the bigger farmers and those who have the most land. If you believe this charade of "improving standards of living", then obviously you have not lived long time enough in Thailand. LOL.

I always found it absurd to sacrifice valuable land to grown ethanol precursors instead of food...The example of short-sighted political decisions (which take place in the US as well).

Edited October 6, 2012 by freemindxs

[Semper]

Has anyone ever seen gasohol being sold in small villages? You can drive an hour in either direction from my place and not see it once.

Don't believe the stickers on the pumps.

[Payboy]

(Pure) Gasoline Not To Be Sold In Thailand

Never was.

[WarpSpeed]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Not to hijack the thread as it's kind of related but I saw a pick up truck yesterday with large writing on it talking about an available Diesel compatible Lpg system here now.. It turned the other way before I could get the info from the truck though as I saw it at the last minute..

[jbrain]

Isn't it time that they cancel the whole gasohol bullshit worldwide, so that food will become affordable again?

[IMHO]

Isn't it time that they cancel the whole gasohol bullshit worldwide, so that food will become affordable again?

Agreed!

IMHO, they should stop all this Ethanol and Bio Diesel nonsense, and instead revise the tax system to favor outright fuel-efficiency instead.

Then you're achieving the goal of lower foreign oil dependance, and lowering CO2 emissions by default - without contributing to the global food shortage and spiralling cost of living.

The technology is there to make much bigger improvements than just the 5-20% these fuel blends can achieve, but ludicrously, the taxation structure insures it's only available to the top 0.x% of the population.

[Naam]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

who says 95 has disappeared?

[keemapoot]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

who says 95 has disappeared?

95 Benzene? long gone. Where have you seen it?

[Payboy]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

who says 95 has disappeared?

95 Benzene? long gone. Where have you seen it?

Caltex has it at some of their pumps.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Payboy

[keemapoot]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

who says 95 has disappeared?

95 Benzene? long gone. Where have you seen it?

Caltex has it at some of their pumps.

Shell and Caltex were the last holdouts, but if Caltex still sell it, it must be in selective areas?

[Payboy]

95 Benzene? long gone. Where have you seen it?

Caltex has it at some of their pumps.

Shell and Caltex were the last holdouts, but if Caltex still sell it, it must be in selective areas?

Yes that, last week paid near 50 Baht a litre.

[Naam]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

who says 95 has disappeared?

95 Benzene? long gone. Where have you seen it?

two of my cars need 95, Caltex in Pattaya (Sukhumvit) sells it.

[bdw]

I think the USA went to all gasohol some time ago.

[keemapoot]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

who says 95 has disappeared?

95 Benzene? long gone. Where have you seen it?

two of my cars need 95, Caltex in Pattaya (Sukhumvit) sells it.

I guess it's still available in Bangkok and Pattaya at limited Caltex locations, but I haven't seen it up country at all, even at Caltex in a couple years now. Of course I haven't looked anymore, I sold my last 95-eating machine almost two years ago now, as I stopped collecting these nice beauties, but I do like yours as you showed your pic on this forum.

[Khonwan]

I have used only B5 throughout all the years it was available here for my Vigo, Strada, Ford tractor, iron buffalo, and small diesel generator. Similarly, I have used E10 for all our family motorbikes on the farm plus small Honda-engine pumps.

Ethanol in Thailand is derived from two sources: molasses and cassava. I choose bio-fuels since I am a cassava farmer. Cassava is one of the major crops farmed by mostly impoverished farmers: the switch to ethanol mixtures will certainly help a huge number of these farmers to improve their standard of living.

I have never noticed any damage to my engines through my use of B5 or E10.

Do you really believe you are going to see an improvement in the standards of farmers through the imposition of ethanol? It will only profit to the bigger farmers and those who have the most land. If you believe this charade of "improving standards of living", then obviously you have not lived long time enough in Thailand. LOL.

I always found it absurd to sacrifice valuable land to grown ethanol precursors instead of food...The example of short-sighted political decisions (which take place in the US as well).

Lived here for over 18 years and farmed here for the past 16 years – I think I know what I’m talking about. Your comment proves you do not understand the issues you refer to. This has nothing to do with subsidies or government handouts (the type of things that can indeed lead to the enrichment of the middlemen only). I don’t think that the move will lead to a better price for the farmer – I know it will.

The use of cassava to produce ethanol creates a further use of this crop, which is already used for starch, flour, livestock feed, GMS flavouring, bio-degradable plastic, amino acid extraction, etc. The resultant extra demand for the crop has already very significantly increased the farmgate price (the price the ordinary farmer receives) of this crop. Around 25% of the crop is already used for ethanol production, with the vast majority of this ethanol production being done in China from cassava exported by Thailand. I received 780 baht per tonne of fresh cassava tuber some 15 years ago but 2,400-3,400 baht per tonne in recent years, largely because of China’s demand for ethanol.

Now, to dismiss your final point, cassava is typically grown on unfertile land that is unsuitable for most other crops. Think outside the square and you will see that there are other ways to solve the potential wrong use of productive land: the government needs only to designate areas for cassava crops, the areas that have always grown cassava for decades.

I already grow 170 rai (68 acres) of cassava – the end of the pure-petrol supply will not cause me to grow more but will certainly improve my bottom line. For most Thais (I’m not Thai, though my wife is) farming much less land, the extra demand should allow them to escape their indebtedness and actually prosper for a change.

[Naam]

I think the USA went to all gasohol some time ago.

wrong thinking

[WarpSpeed]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

who says 95 has disappeared?

95 Benzene? long gone. Where have you seen it?

Caltex has it at some of their pumps.

Yep not at all hard to find here in Bangkok, have at least 4 stations within a 10 mile radius I use.

[jbrain]

I have used only B5 throughout all the years it was available here for my Vigo, Strada, Ford tractor, iron buffalo, and small diesel generator. Similarly, I have used E10 for all our family motorbikes on the farm plus small Honda-engine pumps.

Ethanol in Thailand is derived from two sources: molasses and cassava. I choose bio-fuels since I am a cassava farmer. Cassava is one of the major crops farmed by mostly impoverished farmers: the switch to ethanol mixtures will certainly help a huge number of these farmers to improve their standard of living.

I have never noticed any damage to my engines through my use of B5 or E10.

Do you really believe you are going to see an improvement in the standards of farmers through the imposition of ethanol? It will only profit to the bigger farmers and those who have the most land. If you believe this charade of "improving standards of living", then obviously you have not lived long time enough in Thailand. LOL.

I always found it absurd to sacrifice valuable land to grown ethanol precursors instead of food...The example of short-sighted political decisions (which take place in the US as well).

Lived here for over 18 years and farmed here for the past 16 years – I think I know what I’m talking about. Your comment proves you do not understand the issues you refer to. This has nothing to do with subsidies or government handouts (the type of things that can indeed lead to the enrichment of the middlemen only). I don’t think that the move will lead to a better price for the farmer – I know it will.

The use of cassava to produce ethanol creates a further use of this crop, which is already used for starch, flour, livestock feed, GMS flavouring, bio-degradable plastic, amino acid extraction, etc. The resultant extra demand for the crop has already very significantly increased the farmgate price (the price the ordinary farmer receives) of this crop. Around 25% of the crop is already used for ethanol production, with the vast majority of this ethanol production being done in China from cassava exported by Thailand. I received 780 baht per tonne of fresh cassava tuber some 15 years ago but 2,400-3,400 baht per tonne in recent years, largely because of China’s demand for ethanol.

Now, to dismiss your final point, cassava is typically grown on unfertile land that is unsuitable for most other crops. Think outside the square and you will see that there are other ways to solve the potential wrong use of productive land: the government needs only to designate areas for cassava crops, the areas that have always grown cassava for decades.

I already grow 170 rai (68 acres) of cassava – the end of the pure-petrol supply will not cause me to grow more but will certainly improve my bottom line. For most Thais (I’m not Thai, though my wife is) farming much less land, the extra demand should allow them to escape their indebtedness and actually prosper for a change.

You say, you know what you're talking about, so you also know that the rise in price for cassava from 780Bt/tonne to 3400Bt/tonne affects the food industry in the big way.Because China pays 3400 /tonne for it to produce Ethanol,which is 25 % of the crop use, the other 75% of producers who use it as a food source will have to pay the same price.

That means, some farmers get a better price for their harvest, but the whole world will have to suffer by paying a multiple for their food.

If the end product , Gasohol, then wasn't subsidized as well it would be more expensive than regular gasoline.

[WarpSpeed]

I think the USA went to all gasohol some time ago.

wrong thinking

Yep it's actually quite the opposite, only a few pumps are dedicated to gasohol.

http://www.gasbuddy.....aspx?cntry=USA

For the most part these prices are for non gasohol products depending on what location you use..We don't use specific blends across the board, states have certain fuel mandates from one to the next as do local governments some more so then others.

Edited October 7, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

I think the USA went to all gasohol some time ago.

Think your a bit confused with ''unleaded'' fuel, which was around in the early 70's, l think.