Living Off Your Investments ...

[Lazy Sod]

Some of you may be interested in the calculator at the following link. It takes into account both interest and drawdown of the initial lump sum (not just the interest).

https://www.tools.asiapacific.hsbc.com/inve...rawal&init=true

[LoveDaBlues]

Retire as soon as you can in my opinion. You can always go back to work if you later determine it's a mistake. I retired at 48 making good money. However I didn't enjoy my job and my mindset is once you have enough to live well the rest of your life what is the point of working? It's a corny old saying but you really can't take it with you. One thing you must define is the term 'live well'. It's different for everyone and only you will know what you need to be happy.

How much money do you need? Depends on where in Thailand you want to live and your lifestyle.

I spend 30,000 baht each month for all the basics that most people have (UBC, internet, house rent, food for 2, utilities). Add to that helping the wife's family, recreation, trips, etc. and we're talking another 30,000. So for roughly 60,000 baht I live pretty good. My pension and investments pay a good deal more than that so I've got peace of mind also. I live in Udon Thani which I think is one of the cheapest places to live in all of Thailand so take that into consideration.

I consider myself to be just the 'average Joe' type of guy. Certainly I don't jet all over the world like some here I would feel comfortable trying to make it here on 80,000 baht a month but not less. I don't like to 'live on the edge' so I want to actually save a little each month just in case something unforseen happens.

chok dee

[Dakhar]

Wow Wee, ThaiStick got some money.

Well, I have to say, I hope that if I ever achieve that type of money, I am strong enough to spend it to help the poor, the needy, the sick and the elderly and not spend it on some plane tickets.

[pbrane]

..just a few thoughts: I left the "rat race" when I was 39 (and I'm in the USA) about 10 years ago. I did it on a "shoestring" and have managed to double it since then, and I'm not a great investor (but learning). I say that it all comes down to how motivated you are, how much you hate your job, how resourceful you are etc. For me, it's not worth dying of boredom in a crappy job for 5 or 10 more years just to afford a few more luxuries. I like the simple things like staying fit (a bicycle, a fitness club membership, books, swimming, nature, good nutritious food etc). I've read aLOT of threads on how much it takes to retire and am consistently puzzled by the large amounts people say they need. Maybe Thailand isn't so cheap afterall? I think I can actually live cheaper in the US, but then, there are no beaches where I am...and...I'm doing without health insurance right now, which may be a bit risky (and that's one of the main reasons I'm looking at Thailand..).

Anyway...I'm living (maybe "living" is too strong a word -ha) on the equivalent of about 25,000 baht here in the US (but house is paid for), so I'd think I could do it better in LOS..(?). Of course, my plan is to continue living below my means and (hopefully)building up the net worth so I can really kick back when I'm say...60 or so.

thanks and best of luck to all of us..

[kc-phil]

I am aware of the fact that it's quite ridiculous to think about retiring at such a young age. I am just longing for an escape from my current miserable life (having burn-out symptoms....like insomnia but I won't bother you with that).

Now that gets to the meat of the matter….Wander lust is a bitch!

I spent the past 2 summers in Thailand. Long streches of time with nothing to do. Paradise turned to hel_l when the squirrels inside my head ran out of nuts to chew on.

Don’t get me wrong, lounging on the beach reading and a leisurely life style is great, but having something to pursue was essential for my mental well being….I took Thai Lessons. It filled the time nicely.

On my last visit, I brought my laptop and did work for my job. (it was the only way I could convince them to let me go for 3weeks) it was the best visit I have had to the kingdom yet.

My point is that escaping the trials, tribulations and boredom of the west may be entirely possible without having to declare retirement at our tender young age. Do you have skills? Any possibility to look for overseas employment that might pay more than teaching English?

All in all I know that it's probably better to stay and work here at least another 8 or 10 years...but the idea alone makes me depressed

Amen brother…I would rather move over there while I am still young enough to enjoy it…

[BlackJack]

I am aware of the fact that it's quite ridiculous to think about retiring at such a young age. I am just longing for an escape from my current miserable life (having burn-out symptoms....like insomnia but I won't bother you with that).

Now that gets to the meat of the matter….Wander lust is a bitch!

I spent the past 2 summers in Thailand. Long streches of time with nothing to do. Paradise turned to hel_l when the squirrels inside my head ran out of nuts to chew on.

Don’t get me wrong, lounging on the beach reading and a leisurely life style is great, but having something to pursue was essential for my mental well being….I took Thai Lessons. It filled the time nicely.

On my last visit, I brought my laptop and did work for my job. (it was the only way I could convince them to let me go for 3weeks) it was the best visit I have had to the kingdom yet.

My point is that escaping the trials, tribulations and boredom of the west may be entirely possible without having to declare retirement at our tender young age. Do you have skills? Any possibility to look for overseas employment that might pay more than teaching English?

All in all I know that it's probably better to stay and work here at least another 8 or 10 years...but the idea alone makes me depressed

Amen brother…I would rather move over there while I am still young enough to enjoy it…

maybe a course in spelling might have help a little too

[BlackJack]

Some of you may be interested in the calculator at the following link. It takes into account both interest and drawdown of the initial lump sum (not just the interest).

https://www.tools.asiapacific.hsbc.com/inve...rawal&init=true

I LOVE THIS

now as a single man no kids i calculate it will take 24 years to spend all my money - then i can start on the assetts

how sweet it is

the drinks are on me

yahoooooooooo

why all the fuss about how much you have to spend

tkae a look at this debt clock

USA of course

so spend and enjoy as the USA does as when their bubble bursts so does ours

go to http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Ldebtclock.htm

[RAZZELL]

Mmmmmmm.......Forums...There's always one....

"I've been to Tenerife...He's been to Elevenerife...."

[simcity]

i got a car accident and i saw flash light of my life , did escape with nothing ! decide to call quite in the rat race ! sold the business , keep the freehold and the investment and retired in Thailand !

i was 39 .. did not miss my old life ! that was 8 years ago !

[naka]

Sorry, I should add, I'm not saying you don't make $1500 a day on your penny shares.... I just doubt it very much.

I'm sure he does make $1500 a day (sometimes), he just neglects to say that he loses $1500 a day sometimes. That's the nature of share trading.

Methinks he just handles the truth rather carelessly

Naka,

[bendix]

It's amazing that whenever someone makes a post like that of the OP saying that he is close to achieving his dream, so many people come out to pour cold water on it:

You're too young to retire. You're bored. 25,000 isn't enough. What about if you get ill .. . . . blah blah blah.

Nobody really knows HOW this guy lives his life. He may be happy to lead a quiet life, far from the madding crowd. In that case 25,000 is more than enough. He may even be thinking of supplementing his income in some way. Good for him.

Let's stop dissing these ideas. At his age he is still young enough to give it a go. What's the worse that can happen? He blows his savings after 8 years. He'll still only be 40 and will have plenty of time to rebuild.

My advice is live your dream. You only get one go. And ignore the naysayers.

[~G~]

Bendix, I want to see you live on 25,000 baht for a single month, not years You know what, let's make it 50,000 for you (I recall your post about "The Farang King!" )

[BlackJack]

yes

everyone talks about the x and y factor however you really need to add in the Z factor

this is how long you think you can last on earth

however as it is an unknown variable you need to try to calculate when you think you will leave earth

most insurance companies say its 15 - 17 years after retirement which is at 65 years old

with the advances of modern medicine maybe this will be longer

then add in inflation etc

if you stay here long enough you will think thai and mai pen rai the whole issue away

but dont budget too much or you will miss the whole point of being here

[johnnyk]

Let's stop dissing these ideas. At his age he is still young enough to give it a go. What's the worse that can happen? He blows his savings after 8 years. He'll still only be 40 and will have plenty of time to rebuild.

My advice is live your dream. You only get one go. And ignore the naysayers.

How easy is it to rebuild if:

i) You are away from your field of employment for 8 years.

What do you put on your resume to fill the gap?

What has happened to your job skills and knowledge?

How impressed will any employer be with your 8 years' experience in the mooban?

ii) You are 40.

They can hire a 25 year old who will work longer for less money.

40 year olds too often know the score.

They ask snarky questions like "Why the <deleted> are we doing this?"

IME, bosses like youngsters who aren't as adept at spotting the company bullshite.

Edited February 3, 2006 by johnnyk

[bendix]

I'm not saying I could live on 25,000 baht a month, but that's a personal thing. I prefer to wait till i have investment income of 80-90k a month. But I know myself really well. I know my habits, my laziness, my tastes, my preferences. I don't know the OP from a bar of soap. Neither does anyone else.

All i'm saying is that it is - of course - easy to live on that amount if you want to. Tens of millions of people do.

Would I want to try? No. Would the OP? Perhaps. It's up to him.

And at 32 or whatever age he is, he has the luxury of knowing that whatever decision he makes, it's not irreversible.

Cut the guy some slack.

[Gary A]

I came over to live when I was 45 years old. I returned to the states 6 years later thinking I would never return to Thailand. I was burned out. Many things changed in the US in that 6 years. Within a month there I was thinking about how I could get back to Thailand. I returned to Thailand twice a year for 2 years and decided to buy into a Thai business, and no, not with a girlfriend. I trusted the old lady I went into business with. I was cheated BIG time. I lasted 2 years in the business before I again returned to the US. I had NOT touched my retirement funds so I concentrated on adding to my fund as much as possible. I worked in the US 3 more years and now I am back to stay. No more businesses for me.

The problem with having to go back home is that you spend all your time trying to figure a way to get back to Thailand so it is dangerous. You end up hating your job and feeling absolutely trapped. On the other hand it DID make me determined to save every dollar I could possibly save. Fortunately I had very specialized skills and was always able to find very well paying jobs.

It has been a while since I really looked at my financial situation. I used the calculator link and it appears my savings will easily outlive me. If I get the itch to buy something I don't need there is no doubt that I will buy it. LOL!

[NovaBlue05]

I have been a reader in this forum for a couple of years now although I haven't been a poster. I read these "Cost to retire in the LOS ?" posts with great interest. While it appears that if you line up all the posted responses end to end they would reach no conclusion, I think that viewed as a sample population, a reasonably good ballpark range emerges. I just finished year 20 with the Gov't. and…at age 46, really don’t want to make the whole 30. I have heard that after 20 years in a Gov't. job, your brain cells start to diminish exponentially. The system really penalizes you monetarily for leaving prior to the 30 though (ie: If I stay until I have 25, I get $2500/mo whereas if I suck it up and stay 5 more years beyond that, the monthly payoff is closer to $4500). I had pretty much resigned my self to a 30 year fate. A wonderful thing has happened within the last 4 years though, the real estate bubble has escalated the value of my house by about 20% per year for each of the last 5 years. While opinions on where the RE market will go for the next few years vary, the projections for my area remains good due to a continuing large influx of new white collar workers and a shortage of housing. Now I am thinking in terms of a 5 year plan. I was late to the savings game but currently have about $175K in investments and 401k and am contributing the max to the latter. I am assuming that appreciation on my house will cool to a more conservative 5% per year and in 5 years, I should have about $450-$500K in equity in it. My wife already owns 4 rai in Nong BuaLamphu about 50km from Udon Thani and I see an initial investment to set up the house and new transportation for a relatively small portion of my assets and then putting the rest in reasonably safe investments and living off the pension (90-100K Bt/mo). At this time, I don't even count on social security being there when Im 62 but if it is….all the better. Now, I believe I see the light at the end of the tunnel and am more confident it is not a train coming in my direction.

[johnnyk]

I have been a reader in this forum for a couple of years now although I haven't been a poster. I read these "Cost to retire in the LOS ?" posts with great interest. While it appears that if you line up all the posted responses end to end they would reach no conclusion, I think that viewed as a sample population, a reasonably good ballpark range emerges. I just finished year 20 with the Gov't. and…at age 46, really don’t want to make the whole 30. I have heard that after 20 years in a Gov't. job, your brain cells start to diminish exponentially. The system really penalizes you monetarily for leaving prior to the 30 though (ie: If I stay until I have 25, I get $2500/mo whereas if I suck it up and stay 5 more years beyond that, the monthly payoff is closer to $4500). I had pretty much resigned my self to a 30 year fate. A wonderful thing has happened within the last 4 years though, the real estate bubble has escalated the value of my house by about 20% per year for each of the last 5 years. While opinions on where the RE market will go for the next few years vary, the projections for my area remains good due to a continuing large influx of new white collar workers and a shortage of housing. Now I am thinking in terms of a 5 year plan. I was late to the savings game but currently have about $175K in investments and 401k and am contributing the max to the latter. I am assuming that appreciation on my house will cool to a more conservative 5% per year and in 5 years, I should have about $450-$500K in equity in it. My wife already owns 4 rai in Nong BuaLamphu about 50km from Udon Thani and I see an initial investment to set up the house and new transportation for a relatively small portion of my assets and then putting the rest in reasonably safe investments and living off the pension (90-100K Bt/mo). At this time, I don't even count on social security being there when Im 62 but if it is….all the better. Now, I believe I see the light at the end of the tunnel and am more confident it is not a train coming in my direction.

Sounds like you are in good shape and you have some assets.

I'd say bail out at year 25 and have 5 more years of life when you are in your early/mid 50s. IMO, 5 years at 50-55 is better than 5 at 55-60. If you keep your main assets in the US you will be safe and you can do the house and car upcountry for probably US100K if you don't go crazy.

Chok dee!

[Dakhar]

I am going to take the plunge with 150K USD at 4%, money market account. About as safe as it gets. But I will be working in Thailand. But what else can you do when you are 33yr old.

Be in Thailand in about 3 months

[Chris Lawrence]

I wonder if Mr Thaksin could be persuaded to reply to this post. I want to know how $1.9 billion would be handled over the remainder of life

[backflip]

"While it appears that if you line up all the posted responses end to end they would reach no conclusion"

Perhaps that's because different people have differing takes on retirement. While one person wants a comfortable home, another will accept a slummy apartment just so he has more money for beer and sex.

"year 20...age 46...whole 30...20 years...30...have 25...I get $2500/mo...5 more...$4500...30 year fate...4 years...20% per year for each of the last 5 years...5 year plan...$175K in investments...401k...5% per year and in 5 years...$450-$500K...4 rai...50km...90-100K...62..."

Uh, huh.

[BlackJack]

I came over to live when I was 45 years old. I returned to the states 6 years later thinking I would never return to Thailand. I was burned out. Many things changed in the US in that 6 years. Within a month there I was thinking about how I could get back to Thailand. I returned to Thailand twice a year for 2 years and decided to buy into a Thai business, and no, not with a girlfriend. I trusted the old lady I went into business with. I was cheated BIG time. I lasted 2 years in the business before I again returned to the US. I had NOT touched my retirement funds so I concentrated on adding to my fund as much as possible. I worked in the US 3 more years and now I am back to stay. No more businesses for me.

The problem with having to go back home is that you spend all your time trying to figure a way to get back to Thailand so it is dangerous. You end up hating your job and feeling absolutely trapped. On the other hand it DID make me determined to save every dollar I could possibly save. Fortunately I had very specialized skills and was always able to find very well paying jobs.

It has been a while since I really looked at my financial situation. I used the calculator link and it appears my savings will easily outlive me. If I get the itch to buy something I don't need there is no doubt that I will buy it. LOL!

i have been ripped off 2 times in THailand and its all part of LOS

now i am careful

and retired here

good lcuk

dont be a sucker

[expatgaz]

Tricky question this how much is enough.I moved to Thailand from the U.K at 25 ( pretty young I know) I still work and earn good money, well...very good.I don't go back to the U.k and don't really plan to.In my 30's now.I reckon that 140,000 baht a month would be a good figure to get each month and be able to call it a day.That should cover all situations, for me I have a wife and young family so intend to crack on for another year earning then take a look, with a young family I want over 200,000baht a month pension. Quality of life is the priority and regardless of what I earn I WILL call it a day within 12 months.

Some of the figures quoted of 25,000....there just ridiculous.

[jbaldwin]

I stopped working 3 years ago when I was 37. I sold my house in London and with savings and the value of my pension fund, I had assets of around £360,000. With the very strong equity markets I now have assets of £450,000 in addition to my Condo. I estimate that I can take about an income of about 3% for my assets and therefore that I can have an income of 80,000 Baht per month at current exchange rates.

There are a number of things that you should consider if you are looking to live for a long time on savings

Rent or buy - in my view buying is by far the lowest risk option. If you do not buy then renting will be one of your largest expenses. By buying you are effectively fixing the amount you pay for your lifetime. You elimate the risk of rent increase and exchange rate change (if you keep assets in non-Baht assets).

How much in equities? - returns of shares are much more volatile but in the long run should be higher than other assets. I think a good rule of thumb is to keep the proportion in equities as 100% minus your age. ie I am now 40 and have approx 60% of my assets in equities. As your get older you will wish to take less risk.

How much is Thai baht? - This is a very difficult issue. The biggest risk you have is that the baht will strenghten relative to your own currency. The lowest currency risk is putting all your assets in baht. However, this is likely to lower your expected return. For example I get 4.85% for sterling cash deposits (in a cahoot internet account) but only 0.75% in a thai saving account. I have about 18 months expenditure in thai baht cash plus another 18 month expenditure in Thai equities

[BlackJack]

OK - i am going to throw a spanner in the works

you need to spread your portfolio

some cash, some shares, some property, some retirement government super annuation

so understand theres no point in renting here if when you crunch the numbers its a better return than your shares

ie interest on you money - is say 6% - but the same money 6% going into renting something = smart investing and if the price of your condo goes up then its a bonus

however you need to be aware that the USA dollar is slowly becomming a BAD investment choice

there is nothing surer in the world than the USA economy crashing and then

the USA dollar will drop and bring many things crashing down around it and so you will need to keep cash, property and your super - to hedge your investments

if you dont think the USA is in real economic crises try reading the fact in the Empire of Debt - book

when you realise the simple fact about the USA and their unpayable debt (in the trillions) and that his debt is on an exponential curve up - you will quickly dump your USA dollars and assets

PLUS to top it off the USA debt is on borrowed money at 4%

scary but sobering

buy EURO, buy condo, keep some cash here

when the USA dollar crashes then run on in and buy it when its low

any sceptics - ask yourself why the price of gold is rising - answer because the USA is printing money that cant be guaranteed as there is not enough gold reserves to back it up

[Heng]

Thank goodness in this day and age, especially with internet banking, currency conversion (given, you'll need a bit of warning beforehand for fixed accounts) is pretty easy.

[Gary74]

I'm also going to retire ealy at 48 from the States. I have 4 years and 4 months to go but who's counting

I was going to retire earlier but I decided to wait to be more financially stable since Thailand is becoming richer and the prices are climbing with US$ deflating.

Thailand is richer than majority of countries in the world and it's going to be the next tiger, just like Taiwan, S, Korea, Singapore etc. in the near future. I expect in 10 years. By that time, everything is too expensive to live here so I'll move to more affordable country like Cambodia, VN, PI.

Whatever you do, make sure you have enough money since without it, life sucks. Remember, no money, no honey.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Gary74

[johnnyk]

Thailand is richer than majority of countries in the world and it's going to be the next tiger, just like Taiwan, S, Korea, Singapore etc. in the near future. I expect in 10 years.

Really?

Each of the above values education, initiative and innovation. Does Thailand?

What does Thailand invent, improve or manufacture better than anyone else?

What is their strategic advantage?

It's a pleasanrt place to vacation in or retire to. Don't expect more.

[cclub75]

Thailand is richer than majority of countries in the world and it's going to be the next tiger, just like Taiwan, S, Korea, Singapore etc. in the near future. I expect in 10 years.

Really?

Each of the above values education, initiative and innovation. Does Thailand?

What does Thailand invent, improve or manufacture better than anyone else?

What is their strategic advantage?

It's a pleasanrt place to vacation in or retire to. Don't expect more.

Indeed.

Tawai, SKorea, Singapore don't have a working population of millions of peasants...

That's the main problem in Thailand.

It's a common mistake to put Bangkok on the map of Thailand . Actually, I would say thoses are 2 differents countries.

So yes the trend is upward... but it will take a great amount of time.

Labor force occupation for agriculture :

Skorea : 8 % (1.8 million)

Taiwan : 6 % (0.61 million)

Singapor : 0 %

Thailand : 49 % (17.32 millions)

[haha]

many people seem to be interested in coming over.

my question is - if you all come over, who is going to work to contribute to social security?

I think everyone should work until they are 65, then, come over. for sure, you won't have enough money if you don't work until age 65.

imagine all the things you won't be able to buy if you don't have enough money. egats! life would be miserable if you don't have at least a 8 million baht condo, and a nice car to drive around in when you finally get here.

no. by all means, keep working. you like to work, right?

I guarantee you will miss your family, and all the things you are so used to in the place you are at now.

there isn't any good pizza, nor any good mexican food here. it's polluted, and all the baht bus drivers hate you. the girls will scam you for every penny you have.

why in the world would anybody want to come here?

don't come. you will certainly regret it. mark my words.