Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)

[robblok]

No broadside many things are true and used by experts they call it calorie or carb cycling. (Eating much and then less)

On plattea it happens like you say but not for the reasons you name.

If you loose weight you will need less and less calories so if you dont change your intake you will stalll.

Those things i knew and applied it but i hit them anyway some were unexplainable.

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[laislica]

No broadside many things are true and used by experts they call it calorie or carb cycling. (Eating much and then less)

On plattea it happens like you say but not for the reasons you name.

If you loose weight you will need less and less calories so if you dont change your intake you will stalll.

Those things i knew and applied it but i hit them anyway some were unexplainable.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

Aye, our bodies are too dam_n clever for our own good.

Why can't they learn and remember we have supermarkets, cars and motorcycles lol

[Blackandwhite]

One other way to look at this is this, wild animals follow natures diet and what is available including our closest the ape, they eat their favourite food most of the time, they eat as much as they wish, they do not cook, in the wild they do not get much disease or illness unless man is involved, dogs for example if you feed it what it should have it will remain fit and healthy all to often and we have also managed to poison our pets as we do to ourselves with the wrong food and what we do to it with over cooking and destroying all the things In it that our body needs. As we as humans are supposed to be more intelligent why do we choose to be overweight ( not those who are suffer illnesses that make then overweight ) we have a choice albeit to many of what to eat, we do choose each time we open our mouths to fill it with good or bad foods. So in short it is only with human interaction that animals get overweight and sick and it is only when we eat to much of what we should not have. You are what you eat.

[laislica]

One other way to look at this is this, wild animals follow natures diet and what is available including our closest the ape, they eat their favourite food most of the time, they eat as much as they wish, they do not cook, in the wild they do not get much disease or illness unless man is involved, dogs for example if you feed it what it should have it will remain fit and healthy all to often and we have also managed to poison our pets as we do to ourselves with the wrong food and what we do to it with over cooking and destroying all the things In it that our body needs. As we as humans are supposed to be more intelligent why do we choose to be overweight ( not those who are suffer illnesses that make then overweight ) we have a choice albeit to many of what to eat, we do choose each time we open our mouths to fill it with good or bad foods. So in short it is only with human interaction that animals get overweight and sick and it is only when we eat to much of what we should not have. You are what you eat.

I do agree with you, nature knows best and we choose to mess with it.

Mess with the Bull, get the horns!!

Addiction is the key I think.

Addiction can start at an early age.

Addiction to instant gratification.

Many parents give whatever a child wants so the parent can have an easier life.

The words, wait, later or No are seldom used.

Then the food companies step in and offer specially formulated food and drink that is in it'self addictive.

Coke really had cocaine in it originally!!

If you can find it, read a book written in the 50's called The Space Merchants.

It's Sci Fi about how food manufacturers made their food addictive......

1950 Sci Fi, 2012 and it has been Sci Fact for years!!

Once addicted, does the addict have a choice?

I don't think so, I was addicted to tobacco for many years and it was the hardest job I ever did to break the habit.

I still imbibe alcohol, knowing that it is bad for me........

I'll give it up one day but not yet (addicted).

I used to consume lots daily.

Now it's a beer or two most days.

Of course I have a choice but I have to fight chemical impulses to effect that choice so is it a choice?

In the truth about fat Horizon program, a scientist said that in the battle between the hormones Ghrelen and Leptin v a persons willpower, the hormones will usually win.....

In short, I have great sympathy for overweight people.

Most have a monkey called addiction on their backs and that makes it difficult for them.

Some people are addicted to exercise. I worked with a software programmer who admitted he had an addiction.

Because he spent hours after work running in the streets of London the amount of carbon monoxide in his blood was higher than that of a smoker. (Our company had employed another company called Fit Test to test us and inform us of our fitness levels [or not!], they detected the problem)

The guy promptly changed his routine, home from work eat, sleep, uo at 3 am, run for 2-3 hours get ready for work. He figured that there was less traffic so less of a problem. When he smashed ligaments in an ankle he couldn't run for 6 months so he joined a Swimming pool and was allowed to swim without supervision from 5 am, so he swam for 2-3 hours to get his fix.

Pure addiction.

I am not suggesting that members of this thread have addictions, (Obsessions maybe)

I just point out that in my view, it is the root cause of over eating.

[laislica]

The really sneaky way to get fat!!

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/04/saccharin-aspartame-dangers.aspx?e_cid=20121204_DNL_art_1

[robblok]

Im certainly a bit obsessed, but depending how you look at its not a bad thing. But to be honest you ned to keep your routine else its so easy to forget it all and lapse. I think most guys working out will agree that by not going a day you increase. The chance you do it again ad again.

That does not mean i never skip a day but i try to keep it at a minimum. This holiday messes it up but its good to be with my parents and enjoy the underwater scenery.

They do notice im more conscious about food as before. Normally i would not care much if not for the progress i made.

This is an addiction you can easily quit by not going to the gym for a while or eating what you want.

Im lucky i never smoked, but i did do drugs like weed, mushrooms and xtc and GHB but it was actually not that hard to quit. Though since i quit alcohol i like the idea of xtc because it has no calories. But because im in Thailand i don't do it plus the hangover you get is bad.

However i don't agree 100% with laitisca about the addiction excuse. Its hard to beat an addiction but it can be done. In the end its a choice and the more you get in shape the more the balance is restored.

As for my view on caveman diet, as long as it means eat unprocessed foods i agree with it. However if you do it strictly and exclude grains and other stuff i don't agree. I think its better to find out if you can process it or not. Why exclude milk if your not lactose intolerant.

Avoiding processed foods is of course a good thing we can all agree on.

Carbohydrates have to be monitored if your insulin resistant. A gluco meter can help and combining carbs with proteins will help countering the spike of insulin. I agree with Tropo that you have to find out for yourself how you respond to carbohydrates.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

One other way to look at this is this, wild animals follow natures diet and what is available including our closest the ape, they eat their favourite food most of the time, they eat as much as they wish, they do not cook, in the wild they do not get much disease or illness unless man is involved, dogs for example if you feed it what it should have it will remain fit and healthy all to often and we have also managed to poison our pets as we do to ourselves with the wrong food and what we do to it with over cooking and destroying all the things In it that our body needs. As we as humans are supposed to be more intelligent why do we choose to be overweight ( not those who are suffer illnesses that make then overweight ) we have a choice albeit to many of what to eat, we do choose each time we open our mouths to fill it with good or bad foods. So in short it is only with human interaction that animals get overweight and sick and it is only when we eat to much of what we should not have. You are what you eat.

Additionally, particularly from about the last 150 years or so we have increasingly processed our food lacing it with sugar,salt and additives. Then we started to develop the notion that effort was bad and diverted our creative energy into producing labour and effort saving devices such as automatic washing machines,remote controls, elevators, escalators and electric gates. There are a lot of people around from the post war era ,who in their youth ,were indoctrinated by advertising into the belief that ready meals and convenience foods were manifestations of progress and that physical effort was the regrettable lot of the poor. We have more choice than ever in what we eat but that includes a wider than ever choice of food we should best avoid. We can elect not to engage in any food preparation,and whereas we once bought the food and carried it home from the shop to prepare and cook it ,we can now buy it online, have it delivered and get the microwave to heat it for us. Where we have not learned wisely is how to compensate for all these savings of labor and effort and translate them into some meaningful activity which keeps our bodies healthy and our weight in balance. Edited December 5, 2012 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[laislica]

One other way to look at this is this, wild animals follow natures diet and what is available including our closest the ape, they eat their favourite food most of the time, they eat as much as they wish, they do not cook, in the wild they do not get much disease or illness unless man is involved, dogs for example if you feed it what it should have it will remain fit and healthy all to often and we have also managed to poison our pets as we do to ourselves with the wrong food and what we do to it with over cooking and destroying all the things In it that our body needs. As we as humans are supposed to be more intelligent why do we choose to be overweight ( not those who are suffer illnesses that make then overweight ) we have a choice albeit to many of what to eat, we do choose each time we open our mouths to fill it with good or bad foods. So in short it is only with human interaction that animals get overweight and sick and it is only when we eat to much of what we should not have. You are what you eat.

Additionally, particularly from about the last 150 years or so we have increasingly processed our food lacing it with sugar,salt and additives. Then we started to develop the notion that effort was bad and diverted our creative energy into producing labour and effort saving devices such as automatic washing machines,remote controls, elevators, escalators and electric gates. There are a lot of people around from the post war era ,who in their youth ,were indoctrinated by advertising into the belief that ready meals and convenience foods were manifestations of progress and that physical effort was the regrettable lot of the poor. We have more choice than ever in what we eat but that includes a wider than ever choice of food we should best avoid. We can elect not to engage in any food preparation,and whereas we once bought the food and carried it home from the shop to prepare and cook it ,we can now buy it online, have it delivered and get the microwave to heat it for us. Where we have not learned wisely is how to compensate for all these savings of labor and effort and translate them into some meaningful activity which keeps our bodies healthy and our weight in balance.

Spot on.

What's more it will be another twenty thousand years and more before our bodies adjust to the current availability and type of food.

Well, that's if the human race manages to survive.

Due to lifestyle choices and medical intervention, antibiotics, X-Rays etc, fertility is steadily going down.

Vaccines and the like are wreaking havoc with the young and old alike.

Even if you could grow all your own food, animals etc, the planet is so polluted that you could not go back to the "good old days".

We humans have selfishly raped this planet without a single thought for the future.

We have leaked radiation that covers the planet, mercury and heavy metals are in the total environment along with antibiotics.

We also have the nerve to defeat nature with GMO's and think we are so clever.

Having said that, trying to buy proper food that is not full of hormones and antibiotics is not easy in Thailand.

We simply do the best we can.

[tropo]

Where we have not learned wisely is how to compensate for all these savings of labor and effort and translate them into some meaningful activity which keeps our bodies healthy and our weight in balance.

Actually "we" have learned wisely. Most people who care about their health know well that they must engage in some form of regular exercise. "We" are now in a better position than previously. Instead of irregular, inefficient daily activity (digging the garden, hand washing, walking from market etc) we now have an amazing array of technologically advanced exercise equipment at our disposal, which if used correctly can improve fitness and strength well beyond the level that all the old-fashioned daily household chores did.

At the end of the day relatively few care about their health. Here in Pattaya 90% (guesstimate) of expats are happy to spend their free time drinking down at the local bar. They know it's not healthy. Most of these people have a fairly good idea of what is healthy and what is not. They made their choice.

On the other hand, when I go to my wife's province in the Philippines I see the results of old-fashioned hard work, where most things are still done manually. My wife's rice fields are all managed completely by hand (with the help of buffalo). All this old-fashioned hard work along with a poor diet has these people looking old and wrinkled well before their time. I don't believe it would have been much better for the average punter in your country back 150 years ago.

[tropo]

We humans have selfishly raped this planet without a single thought for the future.

We simply do the best we can.

When people are hungry and poor (a very large percentage of humans alive today) they are not being selfish no matter what they do to get something to eat. They are also not in a position to worry about tomorrow. It's only rich people who have the luxury of planning for the future. All others live hand-to-mouth.

While we sit here with full pantries talking "crap" on here, they're desperately trying to find their next meal, or some way to pay the bills.

If you want to save the future, forget what is going on in Australia, USA or Europe. The majority of the world's population live elsewhere and are not thinking about the future. The future is basically out of our control and always will be.

I have a chuckle when I see these new carbon taxes that Australia has introduced. As if what 20 million rich people living far away from the rest of the world will ever have any impact. It's all politics catering to the limited thinking of the rich.

[laislica]

We humans have selfishly raped this planet without a single thought for the future.

We simply do the best we can.

When people are hungry and poor (a very large percentage of humans alive today) they are not being selfish no matter what they do to get something to eat. They are also not in a position to worry about tomorrow. It's only rich people who have the luxury of planning for the future. All others live hand-to-mouth.

While we sit here with full pantries talking "crap" on here, they're desperately trying to find their next meal, or some way to pay the bills.

If you want to save the future, forget what is going on in Australia, USA or Europe. The majority of the world's population live elsewhere and are not thinking about the future. The future is basically out of our control and always will be.

I have a chuckle when I see these new carbon taxes that Australia has introduced. As if what 20 million rich people living far away from the rest of the world will ever have any impact. It's all politics catering to the limited thinking of the rich.

and the poor are kept that way by the rich!

The rich own the farmland, the forests etc, not the poor.

Watch that video on uTube about sugar, Mercola republished it.

The Haitians are conned into working on the sugar ranches for bugger all money and what little they have is stolen from them in the company shop.

They are not allowed to grow their own food or even leave the encampment.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Where we have not learned wisely is how to compensate for all these savings of labor and effort and translate them into some meaningful activity which keeps our bodies healthy and our weight in balance.

Actually "we" have learned wisely. Most people who care about their health know well that they must engage in some form of regular exercise. "We" are now in a better position than previously. Instead of irregular, inefficient daily activity (digging the garden, hand washing, walking from market etc) we now have an amazing array of technologically advanced exercise equipment at our disposal, which if used correctly can improve fitness and strength well beyond the level that all the old-fashioned daily household chores did.

At the end of the day relatively few care about their health. Here in Pattaya 90% (guesstimate) of expats are happy to spend their free time drinking down at the local bar. They know it's not healthy. Most of these people have a fairly good idea of what is healthy and what is not. They made their choice.

On the other hand, when I go to my wife's province in the Philippines I see the results of old-fashioned hard work, where most things are still done manually. My wife's rice fields are all managed completely by hand (with the help of buffalo). All this old-fashioned hard work along with a poor diet has these people looking old and wrinkled well before their time. I don't believe it would have been much better for the average punter in your country back 150 years ago.

"On the other hand, when I go to my wife's province in the Philippines I see the results of old-fashioned hard work, where most things are still done manually. My wife's rice fields are all managed completely by hand (with the help of buffalo). All this old-fashioned hard work along with a poor diet has these people looking old and wrinkled well before their time".

,

What a pity that their employer doesn't intervene by increasing their pay, reducing their hours and providing tools and equipment to reduce their workload!

[tropo]

Where we have not learned wisely is how to compensate for all these savings of labor and effort and translate them into some meaningful activity which keeps our bodies healthy and our weight in balance.

Actually "we" have learned wisely. Most people who care about their health know well that they must engage in some form of regular exercise. "We" are now in a better position than previously. Instead of irregular, inefficient daily activity (digging the garden, hand washing, walking from market etc) we now have an amazing array of technologically advanced exercise equipment at our disposal, which if used correctly can improve fitness and strength well beyond the level that all the old-fashioned daily household chores did.

At the end of the day relatively few care about their health. Here in Pattaya 90% (guesstimate) of expats are happy to spend their free time drinking down at the local bar. They know it's not healthy. Most of these people have a fairly good idea of what is healthy and what is not. They made their choice.

On the other hand, when I go to my wife's province in the Philippines I see the results of old-fashioned hard work, where most things are still done manually. My wife's rice fields are all managed completely by hand (with the help of buffalo). All this old-fashioned hard work along with a poor diet has these people looking old and wrinkled well before their time. I don't believe it would have been much better for the average punter in your country back 150 years ago.

"On the other hand, when I go to my wife's province in the Philippines I see the results of old-fashioned hard work, where most things are still done manually. My wife's rice fields are all managed completely by hand (with the help of buffalo). All this old-fashioned hard work along with a poor diet has these people looking old and wrinkled well before their time".

,

What a pity that their employer doesn't intervene by increasing their pay, reducing their hours and providing tools and equipment to reduce their workload!

(There's no need to repeat my comments in bold)

Time for an education then....

Most of their employers are also poor. Most of these rice fields are 1/4 hectares or less. Often harvests produce barely enough rice to feed the family. Over the last few years there's hardly been a decent harvest due to weather conditions.

... and one more....

The last thing you want in these provincial areas is for rich landowners to take over with their machinery.

If a farmer used machinery, they wouldn't be employing these workers and they would go from poor with a lousy paying job to poor with absolutely no income at all.

I know this - we live there - we have rice fields. The last 2 years were break even.

Edited December 5, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

and the poor are kept that way by the rich!

The rich own the farmland, the forests etc, not the poor.

Yes, but you can't blame the rich people either. Most are rich through family inheritance. What should they do - give it all away?

If everyone had money no one would work and money would become worthless. There has to be rich and poor for the world as we know it to continue.

I think we have more than enough to worry about. No need to worry about things we cannot change. Most on here are evolutionists - so what's wrong with the idea of a mass extinction and starting over again? Did you see the documentary series "Life After People"? After a couple of thousand years there'll be hardly any signs of this current civilization. Nature can repair itself.

[Kalbo]

One other way to look at this is this, wild animals follow natures diet and what is available including our closest the ape, they eat their favourite food most of the time, they eat as much as they wish, they do not cook, in the wild they do not get much disease or illness unless man is involved, dogs for example if you feed it what it should have it will remain fit and healthy all to often and we have also managed to poison our pets as we do to ourselves with the wrong food and what we do to it with over cooking and destroying all the things In it that our body needs. As we as humans are supposed to be more intelligent why do we choose to be overweight ( not those who are suffer illnesses that make then overweight ) we have a choice albeit to many of what to eat, we do choose each time we open our mouths to fill it with good or bad foods. So in short it is only with human interaction that animals get overweight and sick and it is only when we eat to much of what we should not have. You are what you eat.

Additionally, particularly from about the last 150 years or so we have increasingly processed our food lacing it with sugar,salt and additives. Then we started to develop the notion that effort was bad and diverted our creative energy into producing labour and effort saving devices such as automatic washing machines,remote controls, elevators, escalators and electric gates. There are a lot of people around from the post war era ,who in their youth ,were indoctrinated by advertising into the belief that ready meals and convenience foods were manifestations of progress and that physical effort was the regrettable lot of the poor. We have more choice than ever in what we eat but that includes a wider than ever choice of food we should best avoid. We can elect not to engage in any food preparation,and whereas we once bought the food and carried it home from the shop to prepare and cook it ,we can now buy it online, have it delivered and get the microwave to heat it for us. Where we have not learned wisely is how to compensate for all these savings of labor and effort and translate them into some meaningful activity which keeps our bodies healthy and our weight in balance.

Spot on.

What's more it will be another twenty thousand years and more before our bodies adjust to the current availability and type of food.

Well, that's if the human race manages to survive.

Due to lifestyle choices and medical intervention, antibiotics, X-Rays etc, fertility is steadily going down.

Vaccines and the like are wreaking havoc with the young and old alike.

Even if you could grow all your own food, animals etc, the planet is so polluted that you could not go back to the "good old days".

We humans have selfishly raped this planet without a single thought for the future.

We have leaked radiation that covers the planet, mercury and heavy metals are in the total environment along with antibiotics.

We also have the nerve to defeat nature with GMO's and think we are so clever.

Having said that, trying to buy proper food that is not full of hormones and antibiotics is not easy in Thailand.

We simply do the best we can.

The human race will never 'defeat nature' so to speak, and the Earth will clean itself up very nicely, as it always has done for Christ knows how many years. I'm not sure what this has to do with being fat though.

[tropo]

The human race will never 'defeat nature' so to speak, and the Earth will clean itself up very nicely, as it always has done for Christ knows how many years. I'm not sure what this has to do with being fat though.

It probably started because the "good old days" were being romanticized. There were plenty of problems in the "good old days" as there are now. I'd take 'now' over 'then' any day.

[robblok]

About fat there is a product that reduces appetitr and cravings. It has been banned in some countries so there must be risks.

It contains sibutramine i got it at a pharmacy and never used it.

Thdn a while back i tried it and it worked.

I stopped becsuse my heartrate went up around 10 beats or so, and that messed up my rowing.

Now that i sm on holliday and have to eat in restaurants with my family (not complaining having fun) i am taking it and it works as a charm.

Weight stable maybe decreasing so that is good.

As a side note my freediving has improved can stay under longer as last year. Must be all the rowing. Because i lost a lot of fat i also need less weights to stay down.

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[tropo]

As a side note my freediving has improved can stay under longer as last year. Must be all the rowing. Because i lost a lot of fat i also need less weights to stay down.

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Interesting you say that. I discovered last month that I'm now negatively buoyant in fresh water, which means I can fill my lungs up to maximum capacity and still sink. If you too are negatively buoyant it would make it a bit easier to get down. Of course you'll be more buoyant in sea water - I forgot to test my buoyancy in sea water.

[robblok]

As a side note my freediving has improved can stay under longer as last year. Must be all the rowing. Because i lost a lot of fat i also need less weights to stay down.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

Interesting you say that. I discovered last month that I'm now negatively buoyant in fresh water, which means I can fill my lungs up to maximum capacity and still sink. If you too are negatively buoyant it would make it a bit easier to get down. Of course you'll be more buoyant in sea water - I forgot to test my buoyancy in sea water.

I was struggeling to stay afloat with 2 weights. If i did not take enough air in (full lungues) id sink during normal snorkeling. Last year i did not even have that with 3 weights. Anyway off to do some more snorkeling / freediving. I love watching the fish.

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[mommysboy]

I've always been an incredibly average person and sure enough my weight loss (should say trimming up really) has been straight down the middle and according to every mainstream diet page you'll ever read, ie, eat better, eat less and moderate exercise (can I add I would not consider weight training as a satisfactory exercise in this respect).

Given my own experience, backed up by the general consensus on the medical pages, it's really difficult for me to believe that it is any other way, and overweight people must surely be putting in more calories than they are burning off, simple as that! Or is it different?

[laislica]

I've always been an incredibly average person and sure enough my weight loss (should say trimming up really) has been straight down the middle and according to every mainstream diet page you'll ever read, ie, eat better, eat less and moderate exercise (can I add I would not consider weight training as a satisfactory exercise in this respect).

Given my own experience, backed up by the general consensus on the medical pages, it's really difficult for me to believe that it is any other way, and overweight people must surely be putting in more calories than they are burning off, simple as that! Or is it different?

Well if you started a diet when your resting metabolic rate (RMR) needed say 2500 calories for maintenance and you then reduced intake by 500 calories you would lose about a pound a week. But with the weight loss your RMR would also steadily drop as time goes on and eventually you could be eating more than the new, current RMR and actually gain weight again.

Also as time goes on, the rate of weight loss would slow to almost nothing as the RMR dropped off.

The trick would be to cause your RMR to go up using "the well known herbs etc"

Of course more exercise would help.

High Intensity Interval Training would help for sure as it should cause your body to release HGH and more testosterone and that should ramp up the RMR and allow you to burn fat.

Men: BMR = 66 + (6.23 x weight in pounds) + (12.7 x height in inches) – (6.8 x age in years)

Weight Height Age % FAT Lbs FAT Lbs LEAN

158 70 71 21 33.18 124.82

BMR = 1456.54 Calories. BMI = 22.67

Using my stats, my MBR is about 1460 calories per day. How easy is it to exceed that?

How hard is it to eat less than that?

Maybe I need to put on more weight in the form of muscle but adding 14 pounds of muscle would only raise my RMR to 1544 calories.

A measly 84 calories.

Now if I could wind the clock back, say 40 years to being a 30 year old again, then my RMR would be 1823 Calories (with those extra 14 pounds of muscle).

Clearly, this is a young man's game.

Growing old is not for wimps

The point is that it ain't easy! Our bodies conspire to minimise fat burning.

My dear brother is about 6 years younger than me but with his new knee, hip and shoulder joints, he really is not up to doing any serious exercise. (Damage caused by working in the heavy engineering sector all his working life, that is until he was too ill to work)

He eats like a sparrow but still too easily gains fat.

Any suggestions for him?

[robblok]

I've always been an incredibly average person and sure enough my weight loss (should say trimming up really) has been straight down the middle and according to every mainstream diet page you'll ever read, ie, eat better, eat less and moderate exercise (can I add I would not consider weight training as a satisfactory exercise in this respect).

Given my own experience, backed up by the general consensus on the medical pages, it's really difficult for me to believe that it is any other way, and overweight people must surely be putting in more calories than they are burning off, simple as that! Or is it different?

Its that simple but i would do weight training as it helps to conserve muscle while loosing weight. It might not help you loose weight directly but indirectly because your BMR stays higher.

But its hard to loose weight at times.

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[robblok]

I've always been an incredibly average person and sure enough my weight loss (should say trimming up really) has been straight down the middle and according to every mainstream diet page you'll ever read, ie, eat better, eat less and moderate exercise (can I add I would not consider weight training as a satisfactory exercise in this respect).

Given my own experience, backed up by the general consensus on the medical pages, it's really difficult for me to believe that it is any other way, and overweight people must surely be putting in more calories than they are burning off, simple as that! Or is it different?

Well if you started a diet when your resting metabolic rate (RMR) needed say 2500 calories for maintenance and you then reduced intake by 500 calories you would lose about a pound a week. But with the weight loss your RMR would also steadily drop as time goes on and eventually you could be eating more than the new, current RMR and actually gain weight again.

Also as time goes on, the rate of weight loss would slow to almost nothing as the RMR dropped off.

The trick would be to cause your RMR to go up using "the well known herbs etc"

Of course more exercise would help.

High Intensity Interval Training would help for sure as it should cause your body to release HGH and more testosterone and that should ramp up the RMR and allow you to burn fat.

Men: BMR = 66 + (6.23 x weight in pounds) + (12.7 x height in inches) – (6.8 x age in years)

Weight Height Age % FAT Lbs FAT Lbs LEAN

158 70 71 21 33.18 124.82

BMR = 1456.54 Calories. BMI = 22.67

Using my stats, my MBR is about 1460 calories per day. How easy is it to exceed that?

How hard is it to eat less than that?

Maybe I need to put on more weight in the form of muscle but adding 14 pounds of muscle would only raise my RMR to 1544 calories.

A measly 84 calories.

Now if I could wind the clock back, say 40 years to being a 30 year old again, then my RMR would be 1823 Calories (with those extra 14 pounds of muscle).

Clearly, this is a young man's game.

Growing old is not for wimps

The point is that it ain't easy! Our bodies conspire to minimise fat burning.

My dear brother is about 6 years younger than me but with his new knee, hip and shoulder joints, he really is not up to doing any serious exercise. (Damage caused by working in the heavy engineering sector all his working life, that is until he was too ill to work)

He eats like a sparrow but still too easily gains fat.

Any suggestions for him?

I agree at your age its not easy and the numbers you typed are not much food wise.

I eat around 2000-2200 cals and loose weight but i do exercise a lot and got enough muscle mass.

Though once i loose just a few more kg i will start to slowly gain more muscle by eating 200 cals more as i burn and exercising a lot.

Got next year planned for it, but i think you always have to make long term plans its not going to happen overnight. The 14lbs of muscle extra you are talking about would be hard to achieve in a year even for me.

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[laislica]

Thanks Rob.

The point I was trying to make was that with age things generally get more difficult.

We slow down both mentally and physically.

I am lucky enough to have learned Spanish since 2000 and am now learning Thai so I'm reasonably mentally fit.

A computing hobby helps too.

I mostly control my eating and drinking habits but I don't do it on a daily basis, more like weekly.

Yes I look at weight daily but accept that water balance can account for large swings in weight, but as long as there is no upward trend I don't have to worry.

I aim for a slight downward trend so that I have a little in reserve.

The house party was great eat/drink and happy and yesterday we ate soooo much fruit (shame to waste it!). Scales + 2 pounds lol

Today lowish carbs, lotsa veggies and raw garlic.

Black coffee, green tea and Ginger tea - home made, no sweetener!

A bit od dumbbell swinging too

This time next week is party time again

Silly season - Here I come LOL

[laislica]

Now here's an interesting article:

By Mark Sisson

When describing someone that has successfully made the transition to the Primal way of eating I often refer to them as “fat-adapted” or as “fat-burning beasts”. But what exactly does it mean to be “fat-adapted”? How can you tell if you’re fat-adapted or still a “sugar-burner”?

I get these and related questions fairly often, so I thought I’d take the time today to attempt to provide some definitions and bring some clarification to all of this. I’ll try to keep today’s post short and sweet, and not too complicated. Hopefully, med students and well-meaning but inquisitive lay family members alike will be able to take something from it.

As I’ve mentioned before, fat-adaptation is the normal, preferred metabolic state of the human animal. It’s nothing special; it’s just how we’re meant to be. That’s actually why we have all this fat on our bodies – turns out it’s a pretty reliable source of energy! To understand what it means to be normal, it’s useful examine what it means to be abnormal. And by that I mean, to understand what being a sugar-dependent person feels like.

Are You a Sugar-Burner?

What happens when a sugar-burner goes two, three, four hours without food, or – dare I say it – skips a whole entire meal (without that mythical IV sugar drip)? They get ravenously hungry. Heck, a sugar-burner’s adipose tissue even releases a bunch of fatty acids 4-6 hours after eating and during fasting, because as far as it’s concerned, your muscles should be able to oxidize them[

1

]. After all, we evolved to rely on beta oxidation of fat for the bulk of our energy needs. But they can’t, so they don’t, and once the blood sugar is all used up (which happens really quickly), hunger sets in, and the hand reaches for yet another bag of chips.

• A sugar-burner can’t effectively access stored fat for energy
  . What that means is an inability for skeletal muscle to oxidize fat. Ha, not so bad, right? I mean, you could always just burn glucose for energy. Yeah, as long as you’re walking around with an IV-glucose drip hooked up to your veins.
  
  
• A sugar-burner can’t even effectively access dietary fat for energy
  . As a result, more dietary fat is stored than burned. Unfortunately for them, they’re likely to end up gaining lots of body fat. As we know, a low ratio of fat to carbohydrate oxidation is a strong predictor of future weight gain.
  
  
• A sugar-burner depends on a perpetually-fleeting source of energy
  . Glucose is nice to burn when you need it, but you can’t really store very much of it on your person (unless you count snacks in pockets, or chipmunkesque cheek-stuffing). Even a 160 pound person who’s visibly lean at 12% body fat still has 19.2 pounds of animal fat on hand for oxidation, while our ability to store glucose as muscle and liver glycogen are limited to about 500 grams (depending on the size of the liver and amount of muscle you’re sporting). You require an exogenous source, and, if you’re unable to effectively beta oxidize fat (as sugar-burners often are), you’d better have some candy on hand.
  
  
• A sugar-burner will burn through glycogen fairly quickly during exercise
  . Depending on the nature of the physical activity, glycogen burning could be perfectly desirable and expected, but it’s precious, valuable stuff. If you’re able to power your efforts with fat for as long as possible, that gives you more glycogen – more rocket fuel for later, intenser efforts (like climbing a hill or grabbing that fourth quarter offensive rebound or running from a predator). Sugar-burners waste their glycogen on efforts that fat should be able to power.
  
  

The Benefits of Being Fat Adapted

Being fat-adapted, then, looks and feels a little bit like the opposite of all that. A fat-burning beast:

• Can effectively burn stored fat for energy throughout the day.
  If you can handle missing meals and are able to go hours without getting ravenous and cranky (or craving carbs), you’re likely fat-adapted.
  
  
• Is able to effectively oxidize dietary fat for energy.
  If you’re adapted, your post-prandial fat oxidation will be increased, and less dietary fat will be stored in adipose tissue.
  
  
• Has plenty of accessible energy on hand, even if he or she is lean.
  If you’re adapted, the genes associated with lipid metabolism will be upregulated in your skeletal muscles.
  You will essentially reprogram your body.
  
  
• Can rely more on fat for energy during exercise, sparing glycogen for when he or she really needs it. As I’ve discussed before, being able to mobilize and oxidize stored fat during exercise can reduce an athlete’s reliance on glycogen. This is the classic “train low, race high” phenomenon, and it can improve performance, save the glycogen for the truly intense segments of a session, and burn more body fat.
  If you can handle exercising without having to carb-load, you’re probably fat-adapted. If you can workout effectively in a fasted state, you’re definitely fat-adapted.
  
  

Furthermore, a fat-burning beast will be able to burn glucose when necessary and/or available, whereas the opposite cannot be said for a sugar-burner. Ultimately, fat-adaption means metabolic flexibility. It means that a fat-burning beast will be able to handle some carbs along with some fat. A fat-burning beast will be able to empty glycogen stores through intense exercise, refill those stores, burn whatever dietary fat isn’t stored, and then easily access and oxidize the fat that is stored when it’s needed. It’s not that the fat-burning beast can’t burn glucose – because glucose is toxic in the blood, we’ll always preferentially burn it, store it, or otherwise “handle” it – it’s that he doesn’t depend on it.

I’d even suggest that true fat-adaptation will allow someone to eat a higher carb meal or day without derailing the train.

Once the fat-burning machinery has been established and programmed, you should be able to effortlessly switch between fuel sources as needed

.

How Can You Tell if You’re Fat Adapted?

There’s really no “fat-adaptation home test kit.” I suppose you could test your respiratory quotient (RQ), which is the ratio of carbon dioxide you produce to oxygen you consume. An RQ of 1+ indicates full glucose-burning; an RQ of 0.7 indicates full fat-burning. Somewhere around 0.8 would probably mean you’re fairly well fat-adapted, while something closer to 1 probably means you’re closer to a sugar-burner.

The obese have higher RQs. Diabetics have higher RQs. Nighttime eaters have higher RQs (and lower lipid oxidation). What do these groups all have in common? Lower satiety, insistent hunger, impaired beta-oxidation of fat, increased carb cravings and intake – all hallmarks of the sugar-burner.

It’d be great if you could monitor the efficiency of your mitochondria, including the waste products produced by their ATP manufacturing, perhaps with a really, really powerful microscope, but you’d have to know what you were looking for. And besides, although I like to think our “cellular power plants” resemble the power plant from the Simpsons, I’m pretty sure I’d be disappointed by reality.

Yes?Then you’re probably fat-adapted. Welcome to normal human metabolism! No, there’s no test to take, no simple thing to measure, no one number to track, no lab to order from your doctor. To find out if you’re fat-adapted, the most effective way is to ask yourself a few basic questions:

• Can you go three hours without eating? Is skipping a meal an exercise in futility and misery?
  
  
• Do you enjoy steady, even energy throughout the day? Are midday naps pleasurable indulgences, rather than necessary staples?
  
  
• Can you exercise without carb-loading?
  
  
• Have the headaches and brain fuzziness passed?
  
  

Fat Adaption versus Ketosis

A quick note about ketosis: Fat-adaption does not necessarily mean ketosis. Ketosis is ketosis. Fat-adaption describes the ability to burn both fat directly via beta-oxidation and glucose via glycolysis, while ketosis describes the use of fat-derived ketone bodies by tissues (like parts of the brain) that normally use glucose.

A ketogenic diet “tells” your body that no or very little glucose is available in the environment. The result? “Impaired” glucose tolerance and “physiological” insulin resistance, which sound like negatives but are actually necessary to spare what little glucose exists for use in the brain. On the other hand, a well-constructed, lower-carb (but not full-blown ketogenic)

Primal way of eating

that leads to weight loss generally improves insulin sensitivity.

About the Author:

Mark Sisson is the author of a #1 bestselling health book on Amazon.com,

The Primal Blueprint

, as well as

The Primal Blueprint Cookbook

and the top-rated health and fitness blog MarksDailyApple.com. He is also the founder of Primal Nutrition, Inc., a company devoted to health education and designing state-of-the-art supplements that address the challenges of living in the modern world. You can visit Mark's website by visiting

marksdailyapple.com

.

[robblok]

I have read about it, and i do MAF training that according to the person promoting it would also lead to improved fat burning. I think / hope it works but like the author of that article i cant prove it.

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[mommysboy]

I have read about it, and i do MAF training that according to the person promoting it would also lead to improved fat burning. I think / hope it works but like the author of that article i cant prove it.

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I think any exercise has to be sustainable. I've often had periods of enthusiasm for weight training for instance, only to find I burn myself out and end up training poorly. I've settled on walking/jogging as it seems to suit me and can be adjusted to suit how I feel on a day. Moreover, it peps me up whilst also burning calories so I can snack in the evening. I never feel that tired doing it, whereas after weights I used to suffer quite a bit.

Nevertheless with the most unwelcome return of the hot weather in Bangkok, I've been feeling a bit nauseous and headachy again. I guess it is heat exhaustion but does anyone have a quick remedy?, at present I shower often, drink fluids, and rest, can't think of anything else.

[tropo]

I have read about it, and i do MAF training that according to the person promoting it would also lead to improved fat burning. I think / hope it works but like the author of that article i cant prove it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I think any exercise has to be sustainable. I've often had periods of enthusiasm for weight training for instance, only to find I burn myself out and end up training poorly. I've settled on walking/jogging as it seems to suit me and can be adjusted to suit how I feel on a day. Moreover, it peps me up whilst also burning calories so I can snack in the evening. I never feel that tired doing it, whereas after weights I used to suffer quite a bit.

Nevertheless with the most unwelcome return of the hot weather in Bangkok, I've been feeling a bit nauseous and headachy again. I guess it is heat exhaustion but does anyone have a quick remedy?, at present I shower often, drink fluids, and rest, can't think of anything else.

Yeah, what's up with this hot weather again just as we should be experiencing a cooler break? The ambient room temp in my place is 30C or higher during the day with humidity 80 - 90%.

You know, it's easy to scale weight training back and still get the benefits. Just do fewer sets, higher reps with lighter weights for awhile until the urge to go heavier comes back. There's no need to continuously cane yourself to make progress. Weight training is infinitely adjustable. There's a million ways to train. Nothing else is as versatile. The fact that you're feeling burnt out is probably a sign that you're overtraining. You could also be getting stale from doing the same program for too long.

If you run or jog, any gains you make will quickly disappear after you stop - plus you'll probably lose muscle too as running is very catabolic. What you gain in the gym will not disappear quickly, and any progress you make can be quickly regained even after a long break.

You may find this article interesting:

http://www.t-nation....oning_is_a_sham

Edited December 17, 2012 by tropo

[Tolley]

I have read about it, and i do MAF training that according to the person promoting it would also lead to improved fat burning. I think / hope it works but like the author of that article i cant prove it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I think any exercise has to be sustainable. I've often had periods of enthusiasm for weight training for instance, only to find I burn myself out and end up training poorly. I've settled on walking/jogging as it seems to suit me and can be adjusted to suit how I feel on a day. Moreover, it peps me up whilst also burning calories so I can snack in the evening. I never feel that tired doing it, whereas after weights I used to suffer quite a bit.

Nevertheless with the most unwelcome return of the hot weather in Bangkok, I've been feeling a bit nauseous and headachy again. I guess it is heat exhaustion but does anyone have a quick remedy?, at present I shower often, drink fluids, and rest, can't think of anything else.

Yeah, what's up with this hot weather again just as we should be experiencing a cooler break? The ambient room temp in my place is 30C or higher during the day with humidity 80 - 90%.

You know, it's easy to scale weight training back and still get the benefits. Just do fewer sets, higher reps with lighter weights for awhile until the urge to go heavier comes back. There's no need to continuously cane yourself to make progress. Weight training is infinitely adjustable. There's a million ways to train. Nothing else is as versatile. The fact that you're feeling burnt out is probably a sign that you're overtraining. You could also be getting stale from doing the same program for too long.

If you run or jog, any gains you make will quickly disappear after you stop - plus you'll probably lose muscle too as running is very catabolic. What you gain in the gym will not disappear quickly, and any progress you make can be quickly regained even after a long break.

You may find this article interesting:

http://www.t-nation....oning_is_a_sham

Yeah very hot at the moment. Thankfully I am only doing two days a week at the Plastic Tent and now two days at Fairtex. Fairtex ac nice and cool good for cardio.

[robblok]

I have read about it, and i do MAF training that according to the person promoting it would also lead to improved fat burning. I think / hope it works but like the author of that article i cant prove it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I think any exercise has to be sustainable. I've often had periods of enthusiasm for weight training for instance, only to find I burn myself out and end up training poorly. I've settled on walking/jogging as it seems to suit me and can be adjusted to suit how I feel on a day. Moreover, it peps me up whilst also burning calories so I can snack in the evening. I never feel that tired doing it, whereas after weights I used to suffer quite a bit.

Nevertheless with the most unwelcome return of the hot weather in Bangkok, I've been feeling a bit nauseous and headachy again. I guess it is heat exhaustion but does anyone have a quick remedy?, at present I shower often, drink fluids, and rest, can't think of anything else.

Yeah, what's up with this hot weather again just as we should be experiencing a cooler break? The ambient room temp in my place is 30C or higher during the day with humidity 80 - 90%.

You know, it's easy to scale weight training back and still get the benefits. Just do fewer sets, higher reps with lighter weights for awhile until the urge to go heavier comes back. There's no need to continuously cane yourself to make progress. Weight training is infinitely adjustable. There's a million ways to train. Nothing else is as versatile. The fact that you're feeling burnt out is probably a sign that you're overtraining. You could also be getting stale from doing the same program for too long.

If you run or jog, any gains you make will quickly disappear after you stop - plus you'll probably lose muscle too as running is very catabolic. What you gain in the gym will not disappear quickly, and any progress you make can be quickly regained even after a long break.

You may find this article interesting:

http://www.t-nation....oning_is_a_sham

Yeah very hot at the moment. Thankfully I am only doing two days a week at the Plastic Tent and now two days at Fairtex. Fairtex ac nice and cool good for cardio.

Soon ill be training again too, right now my gym is transformed into a bedroom as my parents are still here. I might deflate the airbed for a training session. But i will see good thing is i control the aircon in the home gym. But it is hot for the time of year i see it in my home too.

Had a great holliday and lost weight instead of gaining it. Must have been all the snorkeling and freediving. I certainly did eat good but made the right choices.. proteins and salads.. no fried stuff or much carbs.

Back home now i got control over my food again, in a week or so my parents will leave and i can do all my training again.