Foreign Words Turn The Focus On Our Native Tongue: Thai Editorial

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Foreign words turn the focus on our native tongue

The Nation

The debate over the pronunciation of 'Thai-glish' reveals the challenges faced by the Thai language in an era of globalisation

BANGKOK: -- The debate surrounding the Royal Institute's plan to change the spelling of 176 words "borrowed" from the English language should focus the public's attention on the use of Thai language in today's fast-changing world.

The Royal Institute revealed its aim to change the written form of 176 words borrowed from English, such as "computer", "nightclub" and "kilometre", by adding tone marks. The Institute reasoned that the additions would be a guide to correct pronunciation.

The plan sparked debate across a broad section of society, since most Thais are familiar with the old pronunciation of these words. Public opinion is strongly divided.

On the one hand are those who agree with the institute's effort to make written words correspond with the way they're pronounced. They argue that the tone mark (wanayuk) will perfectly reflect how Thais have come to pronounce these foreign words.

The other side, however, argues that there are good reasons to preserve the traditional spelling or words borrowed from English. The Royal Institute's predecessors stipulated that borrowed English words should not carry tone marks because Thais and native English speakers pronounce them differently. Thais in general tend to stress the last syllable, whereas English speakers stress the first or second syllable. The differences in the pronunciation of "computer" and "kilometre" are notable.

However, if the institute plans to use spelling to reflect Thais' pronunciation of every foreign borrowed word, it will need to change the spelling many more than 176 words. The Thai language as we know it now reflects a long history of "borrowing" from other languages and cultures.

In addition, the focus on spelling and pronunciation prompts questions about whether more important things, such as how to use the words, are being overlooked. Beneath their spelling and sound, the borrowed words carry meanings from their cultural backgrounds that we need to know.

Finding new spellings for words borrowed from symbol-based languages such as Chinese and Japanese would cause further headaches. And we have become accustomed to the spellings and Thai-accented pronunciation of the 176 words in question. Like "borrowed" words in any language, their pronunciation has been changed slightly to fit the native tongue.

The debate nonetheless reveals the challenges faced by the Thai language amid an era of globalisation, marked by the wider use of foreign languages, especially English, as tools for communication.

Instead of focusing merely on adjusting the spellings of Thai words borrowed from English, the Royal Institute should also place emphasis on updating Thai by, for instance, seeking correct and standardised translations of words into English.

In fact, many of 176 borrowed words already had Thai equivalents that were once widely used. For instance, "flat" is "hong chud" in Thai. "Nightclub" is "sa tan ban terng yam ra tree". These Thai words fell out of use when a younger generation chose to borrow English words for reasons of fashion or convenience.

In addition, the Royal Institute cannot allow people who disagree with the proposed spellings to ignore them, because there needs to be an agreed-upon basic structure for the Thai language when it comes to teaching children.

Language is a mode of everyday communication that naturally evolves in response to users' lifestyles. As such, many argue that the proposed changes to these "Thai-glish" words are in line with periodic revisions of the dictionary necessary to update vocabulary to reflect changing times. For instance, words set to be added by the Royal Institute include kaem ling ("monkey cheeks", now a term for special reservoirs) and setthakij por piang (sufficiency economy).

The Royal Institute will conclude its revision on December 12.

The debate over the divergence of borrowed words from their native pronunciations has revealed how languages and people adapt in times of change and globalisation. Perhaps more significantly, it also reveals that, although Thais are often lectured about the importance of learning a second language such as English or Chinese, we still share a passionate sense of ownership of our own tongue.

-- The Nation 2012-10-11

[jonclark]

Well that new spelling ergo the new pronunciations should have English teacher pulling their hair out. One idea that could be used is for the various government dept to put there heads together and come up with an agreed standardized English spelling for Suvarnabumhi airport. As the various roads signs and the like around Bangkok give it several different spellings

[Thai at Heart]

Well that new spelling ergo the new pronunciations should have English teacher pulling their hair out. One idea that could be used is for the various government dept to put there heads together and come up with an agreed standardized English spelling for Suvarnabumhi airport. As the various roads signs and the like around Bangkok give it several different spellings

Don't worry, that's an entirely nationwide problem. Please take three time to make a Thai form of pinyin. Now that would be useful to that's and farangs alike.

[siampolee]

The debate over the divergence of borrowed words from their native pronunciations has revealed how languages and people adapt in times of change and globalisation. Perhaps more significantly, it also reveals that, although Thais are often lectured about the importance of learning a second language such as English or Chinese, we still share a passionate sense of ownership of our own tongue.

Perhaps it also indicates a closed mind and linguistic xenophobia along with the inability or willingness to adapt to an ever changing global village in this modern world in which we live

[Songhua]

Thank goodness it's at least been recognised the english transliteration and a standard Thai spelling of the words should be accepted. There's no going back on it, the words are here to stay.

Imagine having to say 'sa tan ban yerng tam ratree say thuk yang nay khanom bang bing song chin' just to get a club sandwich. The reason it's not called that is because there was no concept of a club sandwich in Thailand until the club sandwich.

Agreed, if it now accepted these english (and other) words are now and will forever remain the common term for what they are, there needs be some sort of standardisation in regards the teaching of them.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Songhua

[WhizBang]

What about getting Thais to pronounce English correctly?

[nomunynohuny]

And of course, the (relatively) recent change to Meaung in the Don Muang name which lasted for decades!

[noitom]

Good point about the airport spelling. Likewise, many sois, names, universities, and many other nouns and names are consistently spelled differently by Thais. I've seen numerous business and legal documents that even spell Thai names differently on the same page.

The idea of adding tone marks to English words doesn't make sense for the good of the people. Also, the word nightclub, and many like it weren't changed because it was in fashion, but rather that the "idea" of a "nightclub" in the west didn't exist in Thailand before the facility and the word came into existence through western people. Same as Japan, they developed an entire language for foreign woods to describe things that didn't exist in the Japanese language. It is called katakana.

Tone marks and in essence a new language for Thais is preposterous. Tone marks for foreign words is analogous to katakana in Japanese, albeit katana is substantially more rich. But to compare the abilities of Thais to invent a whole new vocabulary (written and pronounced) for western words is preposterous.

The Japanese are a literate, well read, educated, productive, hard working, law abiding society and to even contemplate the Thais emulating them is ludicrous. Recognizing that the majority of Japanese are not so good at speaking English, when the jJapanese read and write English, they are very accurate. The majority of Thais have no sense of reading English or writing in the English language. One needs only to read the editorials in this newspaper. to validate that.

[Kalbo]

Thank goodness it's at least been recognised the english transliteration and a standard Thai spelling of the words should be accepted. There's no going back on it, the words are here to stay.

Imagine having to say 'sa tan ban yerng tam ratree say thuk yang nay khanom bang bing song chin' just to get a club sandwich. The reason it's not called that is because there was no concept of a club sandwich in Thailand until the club sandwich.

Agreed, if it now accepted these english (and other) words are now and will forever remain the common term for what they are, there needs be some sort of standardisation in regards the teaching of them.

They need to take a lesson from the Japanese (again). The Japanese fully embraced all kinds of words , from many languages, and they even developed their own specific phonetic character set (katakana) with which to write the imported words. This , however, took a great deal of foresight and lateral thinking, and seeing as there isn't any quick money to be made doing it, I won't be holding my breath waiting for something similar.

[pisico]

The debate over the divergence of borrowed words from their native pronunciations has revealed how languages and people adapt in times of change and globalisation. Perhaps more significantly, it also reveals that, although Thais are often lectured about the importance of learning a second language such as English or Chinese, we still share a passionate sense of ownership of our own tongue.

Perhaps it also indicates a closed mind and linguistic xenophobia along with the inability or willingness to adapt to an ever changing global village in this modern world in which we live

That brand of xenophobic passion kept China isolated for centuries.

[asiawatcher]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

[Ajaan]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

[Thai at Heart]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Strange point. Other than a few differences in spelling a few words, what are the major grammatical between English, and American English.

I think in that case someone should codify Thai English and just state that English is too difficult and just make up their own version. How about Australian English, or Spanglish, as official languages.

I am half Welsh, I hereby codify Welglish and forgive any grammatical errors I make.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Soutpeel]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Oh here we go...and why is American English a vast improvement pray tell...oh great Ajaan ?

[hkt83100]

And of course, the (relatively) recent change to Meaung in the Don Muang name which lasted for decades!

It is spelled Don Mueang ;-)

[unanimosity]

What about getting Thais to pronounce English correctly?

If they used the accent marks to teach proper English pronunciation that would be too bloody logical, and it would also empower Thais to improve their station in life which is not part of the national agenda because it is believed in the narrow short-term mindset that having better educated commoners would cause the cheap labor force to diminish unless Thai factories become competitive across the ASEAN landscape. Thais want to continue enslaving their own and then pull from neighboring countries for positoins that require English.

[Keesters]

Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

The use of leeches in modern medicine made its comeback in the 1980s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech#Medicinal_use_of_leeches

Wrong about leeches...wrong about languages perhaps....

[Soutpeel]

I am half Welsh, I hereby codify Welglish and forgive any grammatical errors I make.

Therefore you need to end every sentance with the word "boyo" and make numerous references to sheep...

[unanimosity]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Oh here we go...and why is American English a vast improvement pray tell...oh great Ajaan ?

The fact that the question must be asked is case in point.

[unanimosity]

The disrespect in LOfS for education is mirrored in how they named teachers after toilets.

[Thai at Heart]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Oh here we go...and why is American English a vast improvement pray tell...oh great Ajaan ?

The fact that the question must be asked is case in point.

Well please enlighten on the significant grammatical differences? Did American English do away with tenses, adverbs or did it just lose an 'I' in aluminum?

[unanimosity]

Did anybody else read the OP headline several times before noticing the 'T' in naive?

[asiawatcher]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

I'd rather remain satisfied knowing I'm educated. My father always taught me never to argue with a fool - it only proves their point. And I am certainly not English or American - thank goodness.

[smccolley]

The debate over the divergence of borrowed words from their native pronunciations has revealed how languages and people adapt in times of change and globalisation. Perhaps more significantly, it also reveals that, although Thais are often lectured about the importance of learning a second language such as English or Chinese, we still share a passionate sense of ownership of our own tongue.

Perhaps it also indicates a closed mind and linguistic xenophobia along with the inability or willingness to adapt to an ever changing global village in this modern world in which we live

Maybe Thailand can take a page from the French law books and make the English words illegal and make up some stupid equivalent that they are required to use...

[asiawatcher]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Strange point. Other than a few differences in spelling a few words, what are the major grammatical between English, and American English.

I think in that case someone should codify Thai English and just state that English is too difficult and just make up their own version. How about Australian English, or Spanglish, as official languages.

I am half Welsh, I hereby codify Welglish and forgive any grammatical errors I make.

There is actually substantial proof Welsh was a global foundation to all English even before Roman times, Greek and Latin. Well done to the Welsh. http://treasure1.tri...on.html

Cheers

Edited October 11, 2012 by asiawatcher

[smccolley]

Well please enlighten on the significant grammatical differences? Did American English do away with tenses, adverbs or did it just lose an 'I' in aluminum?

It didn't lose an "L" it skipped an unimportant "U" - it is aluminum not al-U-minium....

[Mosha]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Leeches are still used in medicine.

[Songhua]

They're not talking about putting wanayuk (tone markers) on top of english script! That would be ludicrous. They're talking about making the spelling of borrowed words uniform in the Thai script (transliteration) of it. e.g the word sanwit (sandwich) would be spelt the same wherever it appeared in THAI on any menu across the country rather than just according to the writer's interpretation/translation of it ... because it would now be taught that way and appear that way in a Thai dictionary.

Wonder if they'll include 5555?

Edited October 11, 2012 by Songhua

[Thai at Heart]

Well please enlighten on the significant grammatical differences? Did American English do away with tenses, adverbs or did it just lose an 'I' in aluminum?

It didn't lose an "L" it skipped an unimportant "U" - it is aluminum not al-U-minium....

Presumably it lost an I not a U.

Aluminum versus aluminum. that was probably a typo in the Websters dictionary anyway.

Still waiting for the essential grammatical differences for correct American English.

[fnprop]

Strange point. Other than a few differences in spelling a few words, what are the major grammatical between English, and American English.

I think in that case someone should codify Thai English and just state that English is too difficult and just make up their own version. How about Australian English, or Spanglish, as official languages.

Point 1...Americans donated all the extra letters, especially the vowels, in British spelling to the Welsh. Apparently they've been lost in pub or pasture. Also, as we didn't have any Norman overlords to pay homage to, 'tre' spellings have been replaced by the more phonetic 'ter'.

Point 2 ... Totally agree. Pasa angrit very yaak. Tinglish should be declared an official ASEAN language. Spellings in Thai script will be developed by the Ministry of Inactive Posts, and strictly enforced by the Culture Ministry. Spelling tests in romanicized script will follow the GAT/ONET English test models, where there may be multiple or no correct answers.