Teachers Are The Key To Education Reforms And Improvements, Top Educators Agree

[webfact]

Teachers are the key, top educators agree

Chularat Saengpassa,

Wannapa Khaopa

The Nation

Teachers are the key to education reforms and improvements.

BANGKOK: -- Many countries have put a lot of effort into improving teachers’ capabilities so as to drive the reforms and improvements forward. Their success has been proven by students’ better performance and ability.

"It is not a miracle but persistent work for education," Hannele Niemi said about educational improvements in Finland - a country that has long been among the top of international student assessment tables.

Hannele is professor of education at the Faculty of Behavioural Sciences, University of Helsinki in Finland. She was among the keynote speakers who shared how to improve education and do the reforms in their own countries with Thai educators, school directors and teachers at an educational conference last week.

Quality teachers

According to her, Finland is well known for its intensive production of quality teachers. Curricula and the way that student teachers have been taught have been planned together so both harmonise with each other. The country has succeeded in improving the quality of education for about 20 years.

She said it took five years to become a teacher with a master's degree (three years for a bachelor's degree and two years for a master's degree).

"Ten per cent of the highly talented applicants are selected to start their studies (as teachers)," said Hannele.

She said high quality teachers were expected to take the responsibility to develop their profession, analyse complex situations like a researcher would, and make conclusions and decisions to develop their teaching for different learners.

She said what made Finnish teachers different were that all had master's degrees, there was no school achievement testing, no probation time and no inspectorate, all belong to the Teachers Union, salaries were not high but at moderate level and they had commitment to their profession.

Political will was an important factor behind educational success in Finland, said Hannele.

However, she said the country would have to deal with quality education in multicultural schools that are a new challenge for Finland, as such schools have multinational students.

A Chinese professor said China had trained teachers for basic education curriculum reform. It had reformed its education system for about 10 years. The country had conducted many surveys and studies to learn about problems before make changes in the education system.

Local trainers provided training of schoolteachers and managers in their own regions. They trained in general ideas and trends on reform and subject matters, said Prof Xiangming Chen, Professor of Education and Director of the Centre for Basic Education and Teacher Education at Graduate School of Education at Peking University.

According to Chen, money was allocated to training for curriculum reform from 2000-2007. Moreover, from 2010-2012, the government has spent a lot of money in teacher training. Meanwhile, long distance training covered 25 per cent rural schools and 27 per cent students.

The training focused on issues of teaching and learning rather than research outside the classroom; university, district and school collaboration, which was very effective in a more centralised system; visits to other cities and provinces, which started the new curriculum earlier; and pairing with sister provinces and schools from economically differentiated regions.

China has a 1.3 billion population. There are 200 million basic education students, 12 million basic education teachers and over 3,000 universities and a gross college enrolment rate of 25 per cent.

She said it did a national survey from 1996 - 1998 in nine provinces and cities on 16,000 students and 2,000 educational personnel.

"Major findings showed that school education attached too much importance to basic knowledge and skills, neglecting moral values, social skills and creativity; curriculum content was too heavy, too difficult, too obsolete and divorced from students' lives; learning materials and methods were boring; effective guidance for students to learn how to learn and self-study time was lacking; exams became the only means to assess student learning; the ways that exam results were handled brought anxiety to students; and students had passive learning experiences in school," Chen said. He added that most Chinese students considered success of examinations the most important thing, whereas their emotional quotients and morality seemed unimportant to them.

The function of China's curriculum was changed from too much knowledge transmission to helping students become active learners, to learning how to learn, and to acquiring good moral values, she said.

Focus on classrooms

Roy Blatchford, founding chairman of the National Education Trust and formerly Her Majesty's Inspector of Schools in England, said: "The newly appointed chief inspector in England has made their particular focus not leadership, not necessarily the state of buildings, not the care with the guidance - but the classrooms."

"According to the inspection system that we have today, no school can be judged outstanding or excellent unless the teaching is excellent," he said.

He urged clarity on what inspectors want to inspect. Think very carefully about what they put in their inspection frameworks, as schools would start focusing on it, he said. Don't keep changing the framework otherwise principals and teachers become confused - and ensure consistency in the way inspection teams inspect. "The most successful schools are no longer inspected in the UK and the inspectors' energy is focused on the least successful ones."

Barnett Berry, founder and president of the Centre for Teaching Quality (CTQ) in the US, suggested teachers share their teaching techniques and knowledge and learn from peers in other parts of the world via the so-called Teacherpreneur process.

According to CTQ, a Teacherpreneur is a teacher leader of proven accomplishment possessing a deep knowledge of how to teach, a clear understanding

of what strategies must be in play to keep schools highly successful, and the skills and commitment necessary to spread their expertise to others.

-- The Nation 2012-10-15

[jerrysteve]

Paying them more money would heighten their commitment much more along with manditory classes to improve their skills.

[Dr Robert]

Teachers need appropriate pay to attract the best minds available to the job in the first place.They need incentives to upgrade qualifications and skills. Teachers need a supportive, modern environment to work in, which presupposes they are properly trained in the first place. What Thailand doesn't need is over-remunerated "experts" to tell them what they already know, especially those from countries such as the USA, whose system is a model for educational failure. Spend the money where it really needed...the future is with our children and they deserve every opportunity to be educated appropriately.

[cup-O-coffee]

I did not bother to read the article. It is sheer lunacy to imagine that Thai teachers hold any key. Why?

FACE!

1.) Thai teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These teachers face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: no change in status quo

2.) Superiors of the teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These superiors face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: No change in status quo.

3.) The students whom the teachers are in charge of teaching are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These students face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of academia, curriculum and methodology that normal and balanced teachers need their cooperation and focus on, in order to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

4.) The parents of the students are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and face limits any reasonable solution. These parents face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of support that normal and balanced teachers require to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

Edited October 15, 2012 by cup-O-coffee

[drdoom6996]

I did not bother to read the article. It is sheer lunacy to imagine that Thai teachers hold any key. Why?

FACE!

1.) Thai teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These teachers face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: no change in status quo

2.) Superiors of the teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These superiors face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: No change in status quo.

3.) The students whom the teachers are in charge of teaching are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These students face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of academia, curriculum and methodology that normal and balanced teachers need their cooperation and focus on, in order to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

4.) The parents of the students are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and face limits any reasonable solution. These parents face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of support that normal and balanced teachers require to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

So the only way to educate an entire country is to change the culture. I'm sorry I don't understand that.

What about teachers acting like teachers in class? How about teachers not asking for money to give children passing grades whether they earn them or not? What about treating students as students instead of teaching them to be gang thugs? What about paying good teachers more money than teachers that just fill a seat?

[paulmw]

Paying them more money would heighten their commitment much more along with manditory classes to improve their skills.

I think you will find gov’t teachers are fairly well paid, plus all the perks they get being gov’t officials.

A few years ago their pay leaped in leaps and bounds. Ask a gov’t teacher what her salary is, not what she takes home after all her loans are taken out.

It was linked to their performance, but alas it never came to be. (The performance part of the deal that is)

Edited October 15, 2012 by Scott
font/formatting

[thatswhatuthought]

HMMM. Take the coruption out of the school system and it would improve a whole lot. Better pay for teachers as well. It's not going to improve for years.

[TackyToo]

This is all well known by most. How much longer will the media ride this dead horse?

[Tanaka]

Like the article says, Finland has developed and changed its educational system during 20 years to reach where they are today and China has done it for 10 years and continuing. Thailand has not started and has no intention to do that. It will remain in the Asian backwaters and sink deeper and deeper into the mud. Not until they realize they can no longer breathe, will they realize that maybe Thailand is not the world and something has to be done but by then it will be too late.

[rijb]

I think parents can also have a big impact. They were my biggest influence.

[SICHONSTEVE]

They should stop insisting that teachers in Thailand must possess a degree.

Don't they realise that many young teachers come to Thailand for a 2 or 3 year holiday and the teaching is a chore that they have to do in order to be able to stay here.

They would be better off training some of the expats how to teach (without degrees but with life experience) who would be willing to help and probably more able at teaching English than someone with a degree in origami.

More importantly, they would take pride in the job and be much more enthusiastic!!

For heavens sake, you are not even allowed to teach voluntarily without breaking the rules if you don't have that worthless bit of paper - please tell me, where's the sense in that????

[car720]

Man, cup-o-coffee..........I don't know who you are but you are welcome at my fire any time. How many times do we have to listen to people who know nothing and the Finnish one sounds like the worst of all. I am reminded of a time, because of my thyroid condition, that I was referred to a young Chinese phsychologist. When I enquired as to how one so young and inexperienced could evaluate one so old and jaded as myself, I was told that...........it is all in the book. Need I say any more?

[atyclb]

I did not bother to read the article. It is sheer lunacy to imagine that Thai teachers hold any key. Why?

FACE!

1.) Thai teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These teachers face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: no change in status quo

2.) Superiors of the teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These superiors face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: No change in status quo.

3.) The students whom the teachers are in charge of teaching are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These students face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of academia, curriculum and methodology that normal and balanced teachers need their cooperation and focus on, in order to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

4.) The parents of the students are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and face limits any reasonable solution. These parents face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of support that normal and balanced teachers require to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

So the only way to educate an entire country is to change the culture. I'm sorry I don't understand that.

What about teachers acting like teachers in class? How about teachers not asking for money to give children passing grades whether they earn them or not? What about treating students as students instead of teaching them to be gang thugs? What about paying good teachers more money than teachers that just fill a seat?

Google "The Ego Has landed" Voranai Vanijaka I cannot include link because it is against TV policy.

The situations is kind of like a self perpetuating circle of incompetence, ego, denial, self delusion, fueled by cheating and corruption. Introspection and acceptance of constructive criticism is not well accepted.

[atyclb]

They should stop insisting that teachers in Thailand must possess a degree.

Don't they realise that many young teachers come to Thailand for a 2 or 3 year holiday and the teaching is a chore that they have to do in order to be able to stay here.

They would be better off training some of the expats how to teach (without degrees but with life experience) who would be willing to help and probably more able at teaching English than someone with a degree in origami.

More importantly, they would take pride in the job and be much more enthusiastic!!

For heavens sake, you are not even allowed to teach voluntarily without breaking the rules if you don't have that worthless bit of paper - please tell me, where's the sense in that????

Agree with you. Thai students could gain invaluable experience by conversing with native english speaking expats. Even many european non native english speakers are quite clearly understood speaking english.

The Thai government should strongly consider paying for TEFL for expats also. I have been offered work teaching english but I know I am not any good at it, despite it being my native language. They are impressed by my doctorate (unrelated to teaching english)

Edited October 15, 2012 by atyclb

[thunder30101]

The problem I have when it comes to more money is, what amount would be enough for them to change, 30K 50K 80K ? The older teachers and admin make quite a nice salary along with their gov. perks already. Same goes for the police force. Corruption is so ingrained in the culture here I dont see much change happening in my lifetime whatever the amount of money offered.

[cup-O-coffee]

So the only way to educate an entire country is to change the culture. I'm sorry I don't understand that.

What about teachers acting like teachers in class? How about teachers not asking for money to give children passing grades whether they earn them or not? What about treating students as students instead of teaching them to be gang thugs? What about paying good teachers more money than teachers that just fill a seat?

No! You just said that with the implication that foreigners have to change an entire culture. Nothing needs changing because The Thai culture is what it is and no one can change it. The Thais could change it, but I seriously doubt their subjective conscious abilities to even be aware of "why they do the things they do".

The rest of your post suggests mapping out a planned process that not only includes reliable and sensible inanimate factors, but also includes human, or animate, factors as part of your mapping process. When you include human factors, one must consider the developmental abilities and disabilities of these humans and set the inanimate part of the process to a level of expectations which are compatible with the human element or else the mapping process will fold every time.

What I am suggesting is that the Thai way of doing things is never going to change as long as their version of normal remains the way it is, and that version I described in my most recent post.

I have worked as a teacher and been in close contact with Thais at all levels. I have managed Thais. I have interviewed them, motivated them and sacked them.

I have numerous friends and acquaintances who know the Thai work ethic as much as I do and some even more. They all say the same thing. The average Thai worker or manager is worthless unless you keep them under your thumb. There are exceptions to the rule, but that is only when you complain, and those rare exceptions will correct or amend the situation, but only for that moment. But one never asks why the Thai allowed the situation to get to such a point that a complaint was raised. The reason? There is no emergency or crisis until it happens, and then it is time to fix it and get back to incompetence.

All those friends and acquaintances agree that for hard labor they will take 1 Burmese worker for every 10 Thais. For management, they would rather have a foreigner on the job.

You simply cannot suggest that you are going to mind map a system or a structure and produce successful results when the human element is culturally designed to break down and go where there is least resistance at every iota of the way.

The only reason we think there is a problem is because there are foreigners here. Remove all foreigners and I am willing to submit that we would never hear about Thai problems on the outside ever again. They would be as happy as a Blue Mountain tic on a dogs sweaty ass because they would have no one around to interfere with their behaviors.

Incidentally, a grave mistake this OP is on about is using the term "education". What about "learning"? You cannot educate Thais because their learning transcends their ability to be educated. I suggest you read this quote from Wikipedia:

Human learning may occur as part of education, personal development, schooling, or training. It may be goal-oriented and may be aided by motivation. The study of how learning occurs is part of neuropsychology, educational psychology, learning theory, and pedagogy. Learning may occur as a result of habituation or classical conditioning, seen in many animal species, or as a result of more complex activities such as play, seen only in relatively intelligent animals. Learning may occur consciously or without conscious awareness. There is evidence for human behavioral learning prenatally, in which habituation has been observed as early as 32 weeks into gestation, indicating that the central nervous system is sufficiently developed and primed for learning and memory to occur very early on in development.

Play has been approached by several theorists as the first form of learning. Children play, experiment with the world, learn the rules, and learn to interact. Vygotsky agrees that play is pivotal for children's development, since they make meaning of their environment through play. The context of conversation based on moral reasoning offers some proper observations on the responsibilities of parents.

I could point out facts about Thais all day and night, but instead of using these facts to ridicule them, I am getting to the point of understanding that the Thais are just fine the way they are. The problems occur when we view them with a critical eye towards Western and European standards. It is a problem because this face culture (and it is a face culture) will not permit any outside standards to interfere with the way things are done here no matter how fuc_ked up we think they are (and that is a proper use of that vulgarity). I do not even want to imagine the catastrophe that would result were the Thais ever to have a change of heart and wholeheartedly rush over to our standards and quality of life. The responsibilities and burdens that would be placed on the world would be staggering. It would be like 75 million paraplegics suddenly finding the use of their legs and needing assistance all at once to learn (yes, learn) how to walk.

But it will never happen. The Thais have set their course to be malformed and out of compliance with the rest of the world, among many other backwards, idiotic countries that think they have the ability to think. The regrettable thing is that the entire intelligent population of the world will have to slow down and lower itself to the lowest common denominator to allow the Thais to fit in. This new international standard seems to be the way of things lately; to lower all intelligence and reason to the lowest common denominator; to slow it down so such a poor rate that all human development slows to a nauseating crawl. The future of mankind does not look bright as we are seemingly breeding ourselves to death with this backwards approach to developing ourselves to our full potential. We cannot tolerate stupidity or we will lose our humanity.

They should stop insisting that teachers in Thailand must possess a degree.

Don't they realise that many young teachers come to Thailand for a 2 or 3 year holiday and the teaching is a chore that they have to do in order to be able to stay here.

They would be better off training some of the expats how to teach (without degrees but with life experience) who would be willing to help and probably more able at teaching English than someone with a degree in origami.

More importantly, they would take pride in the job and be much more enthusiastic!!

For heavens sake, you are not even allowed to teach voluntarily without breaking the rules if you don't have that worthless bit of paper - please tell me, where's the sense in that????

Agree with you. Thai students could gain invaluable experience by conversing with native english speaking expats. Even many european non native english speakers are quite clearly understood speaking english.

The Thai government should strongly consider paying for TEFL for expats also. I have been offered work teaching english but I know I am not any good at it, despite it being my native language. They are impressed by my doctorate (unrelated to teaching english)

I'll let you two in on a little secret. My spoiler is in the above post. The secret is that you do not matter here. You are an ornament; hung on their tree, so they can feel good about the fact that they have dressed up their image with a foreigner hanging on their sleeve.

That is the problem with humans when we get lazy and think highly of ourselves. We begin to imagine that we deserve things, when in fact we live in a society and culture that puts us dead last in the queue for credit and valuation.

Foreign teachers do not deserve anything beyond what they agree to when they step up to the front and do what they agreed to do. How much is that thing worth? Answer: As much as someone is willing to pay for it. Why can't you see that?

Instead you phrase it this way: "How much am I worth? Answer: more than what they are willing to pay for me". Guess who loses?

The Thais are paying you what they think you are worth, and not one satang more. If you are not able to read the writing between the lines, then maybe you should not be a teacher and instead start your own business, or write a book.

Edited October 15, 2012 by cup-O-coffee

[lmaxv]

All in all it's just another brick in the wall...

[Markaew]

I did not bother to read the article. It is sheer lunacy to imagine that Thai teachers hold any key. Why?

FACE!

1.) Thai teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These teachers face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: no change in status quo

2.) Superiors of the teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These superiors face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: No change in status quo.

3.) The students whom the teachers are in charge of teaching are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These students face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of academia, curriculum and methodology that normal and balanced teachers need their cooperation and focus on, in order to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

4.) The parents of the students are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and face limits any reasonable solution. These parents face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of support that normal and balanced teachers require to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

So the only way to educate an entire country is to change the culture. I'm sorry I don't understand that.

What about teachers acting like teachers in class? How about teachers not asking for money to give children passing grades whether they earn them or not? What about treating students as students instead of teaching them to be gang thugs? What about paying good teachers more money than teachers that just fill a seat?

Aren't the changes you are suggesting changing the culture? I agree with what you are saying: Change the educational culture and change the country.

[Markaew]

Paying them more money would heighten their commitment much more along with manditory classes to improve their skills.

I think you will find gov’t teachers are fairly well paid, plus all the perks they get being gov’t officials.

A few years ago their pay leaped in leaps and bounds. Ask a gov’t teacher what her salary is, not what she takes home after all her loans are taken out.

It was linked to their performance, but alas it never came to be. (The performance part of the deal that is)

If you have ever worked along side the Thai teachers you would understand that paying them more money would change nothng.

[cup-O-coffee]

I did not bother to read the article. It is sheer lunacy to imagine that Thai teachers hold any key. Why?

FACE!

1.) Thai teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These teachers face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: no change in status quo

2.) Superiors of the teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These superiors face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: No change in status quo.

3.) The students whom the teachers are in charge of teaching are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These students face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of academia, curriculum and methodology that normal and balanced teachers need their cooperation and focus on, in order to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

4.) The parents of the students are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and face limits any reasonable solution. These parents face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of support that normal and balanced teachers require to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

So the only way to educate an entire country is to change the culture. I'm sorry I don't understand that.

What about teachers acting like teachers in class? How about teachers not asking for money to give children passing grades whether they earn them or not? What about treating students as students instead of teaching them to be gang thugs? What about paying good teachers more money than teachers that just fill a seat?

Aren't the changes you are suggesting changing the culture? I agree with what you are saying: Change the educational culture and change the country.

No. I am not suggesting anything. I am criticizing using my observations from a Western viewpoint, and at the same time stating that they are just fine the way they are; albeit against my standards (but that's me and they are them).

With respect to your final statement, I believe you cannot expect any solution (that would make us happy) if you change the educational culture because you are describing the tools and methods. The defeating element would lie in the learning; the learned behavior, backed by thousands of years of indoctrination in beliefs that go so emphatically against the grain of Western and European standards and thinking that the twain shall never meet. So, again, they are fine just the way they are from their point of view. At least I have not heard or read of Thailand asking for help; hence they are F.I.N.E. yes? Have you heard or read of any Thais crying to the world for help?

It seems to me that any time they do go International with some kind of statement, they are always proclaiming that they are some sort of amazing hub that the world would take delight in, or they are showing off and bragging, or they are telling another country how naughty or unfair they are. No; the Thais are simply perfect according to *ahem* their intelligence reports.

Edited October 16, 2012 by cup-O-coffee

[Markaew]

I did not bother to read the article. It is sheer lunacy to imagine that Thai teachers hold any key. Why?

FACE!

1.) Thai teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These teachers face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: no change in status quo

2.) Superiors of the teachers are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These superiors face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive to any reasonable solution this article headline suggests.

Result: No change in status quo.

3.) The students whom the teachers are in charge of teaching are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and Face limits any reasonable solution. These students face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of academia, curriculum and methodology that normal and balanced teachers need their cooperation and focus on, in order to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

4.) The parents of the students are indoctrinated into the Face culture, and face limits any reasonable solution. These parents face too many personal, mental and developmental issues that are corrosive the kind of support that normal and balanced teachers require to fulfill any educational productivity.

Result: No change in status quo.

So the only way to educate an entire country is to change the culture. I'm sorry I don't understand that.

What about teachers acting like teachers in class? How about teachers not asking for money to give children passing grades whether they earn them or not? What about treating students as students instead of teaching them to be gang thugs? What about paying good teachers more money than teachers that just fill a seat?

Aren't the changes you are suggesting changing the culture? I agree with what you are saying: Change the educational culture and change the country.

No. I am not suggesting anything. I am criticizing using my observations from a Western viewpoint, and at the same time stating that they are just fine the way they are; albeit against my standards (but that's me and they are them).

With respect to your final statement, I believe you cannot expect any solution (that would make us happy) if you change the educational culture because you are describing the tools and methods. The defeating element would lie in the learning; the learned behavior, backed by thousands of years of indoctrination in beliefs that go so emphatically against the grain of Western and European standards and thinking that the twain shall never meet. So, again, they are fine just the way they are from their point of view. At least I have not heard or read of Thailand asking for help; hence they are F.I.N.E. yes? Have you heard or read of any Thais crying to the world for help?

It seems to me that any time they do go International with some kind of statement, they are always proclaiming that they are some sort of amazing hub that the world would take delight in, or they are showing off and bragging, or they are telling another country how naughty or unfair they are. No; the Thais are simply perfect according to *ahem* their intelligence reports.

I stated this in a different thread but I'll repeat. I believe if the Thais truely are interested moving up to the level of at least the surrounding countries then they will have to undergo cultureal changes that root out the corrupted that presently rules. I understand your point and it's one that I share: The Thais are not capable of any kind of transformation.

[belg]

as said before: thailand is good at providing low cost no education workers, that is what they are good in

how many nobel prize winners in this country? how many inventions created here ?

cheap labor and sex workers is sadly the appeal of this country for investors and sexpats

[NeverSure]

I believe I read that the US spends more money per student for education than any other country, but the education system sucks. The teachers are already overpaid and their union strikes have gotten them a fantastic retirement program.

Throwing more money at a problem isn't always the answer. Teachers are spoiled and are far more interested in their pay and benefits than they are in the students.

In the meantime the parents are far too busy pampering themselves to pay any attention to their kids' schooling. The parents make no attempt to partner with the school in seeing to it that the child behaves or studies.

Parents who really care put the kids in private school or home school them using a purchased program. Now they are paying taxes to support public school waste, but aren't using it. They are paying twice. It is well proven in college entrance exams that home schooled kids, taught by "unqualified" parents far ourscore those who were taught by "professional" teachers in the public schools.

Someone simply has to give a d@mn about the kids instead of themselves.

Edited October 16, 2012 by NeverSure

[Scott]

I believe that in order to home school in most states you have to be 'qualified'.

[cup-O-coffee]

as said before: thailand is good at providing low cost no education workers, that is what they are good in

how many nobel prize winners in this country? how many inventions created here ?

cheap labor and sex workers is sadly the appeal of this country for investors and sexpats

Agreed!

With all due respect to your last comment, I would like to share my view.

The cheap labor is a result of cheap minds that a) are to ignorant during the learning curve to know any better, to stupid to get it through their thick head after doing that thing for awhile, or c) have no sense of achievement, combined with no goal-oriented thinking, and consequently are apathetic and useless to all those around them and a burden on society.

These cheap minds produce or provide cheap products or services, respectively.

One imagines that the employers of these examples understand this by now, and therefore intentionally engage their employment without any sense of pride in their service or product,

The sex workers comment stung a bit. I would leave out the "sexpats" comment as it is a very sensitive issue and the implications that arise from the mere mention of it creates a compelling and distinct feeling to rebut; yet I refrain.

I will simply leave it with this; The fact that Thailand is a place where a dog can go to get some food, makes it legitimate to put the focus on Thailand for providing the means of getting the food, and not the dog, that has a natural hunger. It is not natural to put out food for someone who has a natural hunger, just the same as it is not natural to refrain from feeding the dog, hence increasing its hunger desires, if you get my meaning, so please do not make negative references to the poor dog and focus instead on the ones to unnaturally do and do not do.

Good post.

[NeverSure]

I believe that in order to home school in most states you have to be 'qualified'.

Not in Oregon or Wisconsin, and I don't know about others. The state does some monitoring such as having the child take a required exam every couple of years.

Most parents buy or get free a program for it. Some of them are online. There definitely needs to be a right track for the kids to be on or they might not pass those exams.

Edited October 17, 2012 by NeverSure

[Scott]

Thanks. I thought there was some minimum education requirement, but perhaps I was wrong.

[NeverSure]

Thanks. I thought there was some minimum education requirement, but perhaps I was wrong.

I have neighbors who home school their boy and girl. Neither is certified. The kids are excelling. Their 16 year old boy already has 2 years of college credit. He goes to the local junior college 3 times a week and takes classes that meet the requirements for high school also. He does attend the local high school only enough that he can play his cello in the orchestra and belong to the debate team which is extra-curricular anyway. Our laws require the public schools to allow home schooled kids to do that. Why not? The taxes are already paid for full schooling if they want it.

Those two kids are the nicest, most polite, and brightest I know, and I mean it.

[otherstuff1957]

A couple I know back in California are home schooling their kids. Neither of them have teaching credentials - though he has a PhD & she is a music teacher.

[Scott]

I never had close contact with home schooling, but many years ago, while overseeing adoption programs, I ran into applicants who home schooled their children. We approved an adoption to a couple, but he was a medical doctor and the stay-at-home mother, had a Masters Degree. Neither were licensed teachers.

At that time, home schooling was very, very new. The progress reports on the existing children in the family was quite impressive.