Condominium Act 100% Foreigner Ownership

[Yohan]

Pay rent, or invest your money elsewhere!

Both has pro and contra.

It depends primary how long you intend to stay.

I think if you stay longer than 5 years, it makes sense to buy your condominium.

Just consider the rent and compare it with the price of sale.

Rent, especially a furnished apartment, has also its problems, as you cannot change the rooms in the way you like it, and you are responsible for all what is broken or otherwise damaged.

Invest your money elsewhere - I like to have my own roof over my head - I agree however to that definition, that you should not spend too much for your own apartment, if you buy one..... not over 1.5 or 2.0 million baht, I would say.

If you have more money available... yes, better invest it somewhere else.

Johann

[Yohan]

OK, today I also received a fax from View Talay, where they are telling me, they cannot register my fully paid condominium (paid on 28th July 2003) for foreign ownership.

Seems they have some problems there. They offered me to register as company to their own expenses for 3 years, or to pay back my money.

Now negotiating with them.....

Johann

[edh]

Johann,

My friend got exact the same deal. He bought earlier - in beginning of 2003.

He took the deal as they offered it and we will see what the future brings us in this matter.

Good luck with the negotiations!

I'm still awaiting a written confirmation about my transfer.

Only a verbal one so far.... We'll see

[Yohan]

EDH:

Thank you for your information, I will be there on 12th April, and I will see what can be done about it.

For sure, I will not accept the Thai company option, as I am not in a hurry to move in.

ViewTalay is a serious company, and I never heard about problems so far since many years. There must be some misunderstandings between the land office and the construction company about what is for foreign and what is for Thai ownership.

One of my friends is an US citizen, but has Thai wife, and retired just some weeks ago, still in Bangkok in a small apartment, which belongs to his wife, and they are very interested to come with me and to check out about my condominium.

View Talay offered me to pay back the full amount if there is no way out of this mess.....

Will see.....

I will post here the results in April.

Thank again,

Johann

[sonthaya]

I own a condo in Phuket, and what I have been told is that falang ownership can be up 100% until some date in April, where the ownership will be frozen at that level.

[mbkudu]

If the government is going to do this, it makes no sense. It means that many units will sit idle because Thais have very little interest in condos. They can buy houses for what it costs a foreigner to buy a condo. A Thai politician once said that condos are nothing more than bird houses, unfit for Thais to live in.

[Yohan]

EDH:

Thank you for your information, I will be there on 12th April, and I will see what can be done about it.

For sure, I will not accept the Thai company option, as I am not in a hurry to move in.

ViewTalay is a serious company, and I never heard about problems so far since many years. There must be some misunderstandings between the land office and the construction company about what is for foreign and what is for Thai ownership.

View Talay offered me to pay back the full amount if there is no way out of this mess.....

Will see.....

I will post here the results in April.

Johann

To EDH:

I am now back from Jomtien, and I changed my mind after a long conversation with the ViewTalay Company. I moved already in my condominium, using company registration.

The law did not change, it was ViewTalay and some other construction companies, which failed to study the existing regulations, which say, ownership can be registrated until 27th of April 2004, but only for condominium buildings, which were open and operating BEFORE the end of 2003....

With the project where I bought the condominium unit, this was clearly not the case.

-----

It is true, that for most Thai people such condominium units are not interesting objects, except for speculation for the reason to sell them to foreigners. In the ViewTalay Condos, less than 20 percent are bought AND in use by Thai people...

So what to do with the other remaining units? Until now there was some exception to this 49/51 percent rule, limited for the period of 5 years....

In Jomtien the construction companies are expecting again a similar exception coming soon to replace the expired one....

The same told me a construction company in Bangkok....otherwise 1000s of condominium units will be just remain unsold, or sold to a mini-shareholder-company, where the preference shares are hold by foreign owners and the other shares are kept by the construction company itself...

Will see....

Johann

[mbkudu]

Maybe Patata is different but I think the 49%/ 51% has always been the case in Bangkok. I bought one on Sukhumvit Rd and my real estate agent checked very carefully that it was still within the legal ratio for me to buy; this was a little over a year ago. Maybe what this all about is that the gov. is making Pataya follow rules for Bangkok. Not sure.

[bodypaul]

That sounds fesible Mbkudu

[Yohan]

Maybe Patata is different but I think the 49%/ 51% has always been the case in Bangkok. I bought one on Sukhumvit Rd and my real estate agent checked very carefully that it was still within the legal ratio for me to buy; this was a little over a year ago. Maybe what this all about is that the gov. is making Pataya follow rules for Bangkok. Not sure.

the 49/51 over exception was not applicable for every building in Bangkok and Pattaya and some other places in Thailand.

It depends on the construction company, which must apply for it, and the structure of the building and land, if it qualifies for over 49/51 -

There are condominium buildings in Bangkok too, which qualify for up to 100 percent foreign ownership to the expired law....

Anyway, it is expired now and at the moment only 49/51 is possible....

Johann

[edh]

EDH:

Thank you for your information, I will be there on 12th April, and I will see what can be done about it.

For sure, I will not accept the Thai company option, as I am not in a hurry to move in.

ViewTalay is a serious company, and I never heard about problems so far since many years. There must be some misunderstandings between the land office and the construction company about what is for foreign and what is for Thai ownership.

View Talay offered me to pay back the full amount if there is no way out of this mess.....

Will see.....

I will post here the results in April.

Johann

I moved already in my condominium, using company registration.

The law did not change, it was ViewTalay and some other construction companies, which failed to study the existing regulations, which say, ownership can be registrated until 27th of April 2004, but only for condominium buildings, which were open and operating BEFORE the end of 2003....

With the project where I bought the condominium unit, this was clearly not the case.

-----

It is true, that for most Thai people such condominium units are not interesting objects, except for speculation for the reason to sell them to foreigners. In the ViewTalay Condos, less than 20 percent are bought AND in use by Thai people...

So what to do with the other remaining units? Until now there was some exception to this 49/51 percent rule, limited for the period of 5 years....

In Jomtien the construction companies are expecting again a similar exception coming soon to replace the expired one....

The same told me a construction company in Bangkok....otherwise 1000s of condominium units will be just remain unsold, or sold to a mini-shareholder-company, where the preference shares are hold by foreign owners and the other shares are kept by the construction company itself...

Will see....

Johann

Hi Johann,

I'm glad it worked out for you. It seems that all is ok in my case so far. Will arrive "home" in end of May and will then meet with sales representatives and owners and will then seal the deal hopefully.

Will post the outcome here.

Edh

[Yohan]

Hi Johann,

I'm glad it worked out for you. It seems that all is ok in my case so far. Will arrive "home" in end of May and will then meet with sales representatives and owners and will then seal the deal hopefully.

Will post the outcome here.

Edh

Hi, EDH

I did not find any reason to worry. Here in Jomtien now prices are moving up, and I would never get the same condominium for the same price again.

For what I paid 1.1 million baht, they ask now for 2.3 or 2.8 million baht, and all the hill down to Jomtien is a huge construction area of 1000s of new condominiums.

The offer of ViewTalay to accept the company-version of registration is fairly good, they will pay for all registration fees to establish the company, and have a contract with an accounting company to do any kind of bookkeeping, tax and so on. They will also pay for all expenses for the next 3 years....I heard, about 400 units with about 250 foreign owners have that registration problem only in the View Talay, but there are some other construction companies with the same problem in Bangkok and Pattaya and all are expecting some solution within 3 years....

The related government offices are not happy with this legal solution, worked out by the construction companies, lawyers and accounting offices....

Shareholders are accounting office owners, lawyers and construction companies directors, the condominium can be bought legally with Thai Baht (no foreign exchange required), and with this mini-company you can buy as a foreigner director every comdominium or even other property, which is left and unsold in all Chonburi district, regardless if it is for foreign or for Thai ownership....you even need not to prove from where the money is coming from....in some cases, it makes you even the visa-situation easier, you are a businessman owning your Thai company....

It must be said, that this offer is only made to customers by View Talay, where the construction company clearly made a mistake by not monitoring the legal situation carefully.

OK, I accepted and will see... It seems that all are expecting a new law, replacing the expired one within some years....and transfer the foreign ownership later on, dissolving these mini-companies again....

Johann

[p_brownstone]

Hi Johann,

I'm glad it worked out for you. It seems that all is ok in my case so far. Will arrive "home" in end of May and will then meet with sales representatives and owners and will then seal the deal hopefully.

Will post the outcome here.

Edh

Hi, EDH

The offer of ViewTalay to accept the company-version of registration is fairly good, they will pay for all registration fees to establish the company, and have a contract with an accounting company to do any kind of bookkeeping, tax and so on. They will also pay for all expenses for the next 3 years....I heard, about 400 units with about 250 foreign owners have that registration problem only in the View Talay, but there are some other construction companies with the same problem in Bangkok and Pattaya and all are expecting some solution within 3 years....

The related government offices are not happy with this legal solution, worked out by the construction companies, lawyers and accounting offices....

Shareholders are accounting office owners, lawyers and construction companies directors, the condominium can be bought legally with Thai Baht (no foreign exchange required), and with this mini-company you can buy as a foreigner director every comdominium or even other property, which is left and unsold in all Chonburi district, regardless if it is for foreign or for Thai ownership....you even need not to prove from where the money is coming from....in some cases, it makes you even the visa-situation easier, you are a businessman owning your Thai company....

I think even this idea will have real problems.

If the Land Department can prove that the Company has been set up - using Thai proxies - simply to circumvent the letter of the law regarding the 49% / 51 % ownership levels then it can refuse to allow transfer of title.

It is already illegal to set up Companies for this purpose, and illegal for Thai nationals to serve as proxies in such companies; if this solution is being attempted in large numbers of cases in Pattaya I would be very surprised if the authorities simply turn a blind eye to it.

[Yohan]

I think even this idea will have real problems.

If the Land Department can prove that the Company has been set up - using Thai proxies - simply to circumvent the letter of the law regarding the 49% / 51 % ownership levels then it can refuse to allow transfer of title.

It is already illegal to set up Companies for this purpose, and illegal for Thai nationals to serve as proxies in such companies; if this solution is being attempted in large numbers of cases in Pattaya I would be very surprised if the authorities simply turn a blind eye to it.

I also think so - but give them time to find a solution.

Nobody is happy with this 49/51 ownership level regarding condominiums. Another law containing exceptions is considered to show up soon, to replace the old expired one.

There are also other studies going on at the moment, like to separate the land and the condominium building - the foreigner cannot own land, but can own the house on the land....this is legally permitted.

With such a title, splitting the condominium building in a Thai company land-ownership and foreign condominium-owners without land-titel, all units can be sold to foreigners....

It is almost the same as ownership, especially if the landowner is a shareholder company, and selling 30 percent of the shares to the foreigners, who are holding 100 percent ownership of the building.....

It means the foreigner will own 100 percent of his condominium-unit (of the building only) and 30 percent of the land....

There are also considerations about the habituation right. With such a right, the foreign owners of such a building might gain additional security about to use the land, on which their condominium units are constructed for 30 x 3 years....making it impossible to remove them for life-time...

The company registration, which was offered to me is only considered as an interim-solution, as an exception ...This is for sure.

I think, they need just some time to re-organize how to deal with foreign condominium-ownership in the future.

Johann