Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

[theblether]

Re The Scotsman, if that article is proven to be correct ( Foulkes is a blowhard nutter ), then I regard that as a positive step.

Tam Dalyell warned of this, and he was right. Another area of contention clarified. That won't suit the Unionists, that's why Cameron didn't want to ask.

Happy days!!!!!

Edited December 6, 2012 by theblether

[BirdsandBooze]

I can`t see what the problem is with independence if that`s what the majority of Scots want. I`ve spent many a happy holiday salmon and trout fishing in the Highlands and Islands and think that the natural beauty is the country`s main asset. It certainly knocks that of Thailand into the proverbial cocked hat. With regards to defence, I`m sure that an arrangement for mutual co-operation with the remainder of the Union could be reached. China I would be very wary of, they are not going to listen to anybody about their human rights abuses. I`d also hate to see them buy up the famous distilleries and start labelling their gut rot alchohol as Scotch. They`ve already bought famous car and motorcycle companies and badged their own inferior products with the names, so they`ll have no qualms about abusing the sanctity of Scotland`s best known product.

[onionluke]

I can`t see what the problem is with independence if that`s what the majority of Scots want. I`ve spent many a happy holiday salmon and trout fishing in the Highlands and Islands and think that the natural beauty is the country`s main asset. It certainly knocks that of Thailand into the proverbial cocked hat. With regards to defence, I`m sure that an arrangement for mutual co-operation with the remainder of the Union could be reached. China I would be very wary of, they are not going to listen to anybody about their human rights abuses. I`d also hate to see them buy up the famous distilleries and start labelling their gut rot alchohol as Scotch. They`ve already bought famous car and motorcycle companies and badged their own inferior products with the names, so they`ll have no qualms about abusing the sanctity of Scotland`s best known product.

" Famous Gutrot " , Distilled with Scottish technonogy since ......

[Exsexyman]

Oh Dear, it would appear that The Blether's hero may be a liar. Heaven forbid! Alex Salmond exposed as a self interested opportunist! Surely not! He has obviously pulled the wool over the eyes of the Scottish nationalist contingent here on Thaivisa, who are happy to go along with this nonsense. Anybody with an ounce of political nous, ( That probably excludes you Blether despite your high opinion of yourself), knows that when there is a democratic vote on this there will be a clear majority in favour of the status quo. The average Scotsman( or Scotslady) is not stupid, they know which side of the bread is buttered. And after this vote finally settles the matter Alex Salmond will fade away into UK political obscurity, probably to expose himself as the ultimate hypocrite by taking a well renumerated job in the EU. He wouldn't be the first. And won't be the last. You never know Blether, he might want someone to carry his bags!

[Exsexyman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/editorial-a-reality-check-for-alex-salmond-8390486.html

[phuketjock]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/editorial-a-reality-check-for-alex-salmond-8390486.html

If you were to scroll back a few posts, or even read the thread you would see this

has already been dealt with. Biased sensational journalism is pure speculation and

nothing else, until the facts surface it is nothing but conjecture, no more no less.

post #1078 to be precise.

Edited December 6, 2012 by phuketjock

[phuketjock]

Oh Dear, it would appear that The Blether's hero may be a liar. Heaven forbid! Alex Salmond exposed as a self interested opportunist! Surely not! He has obviously pulled the wool over the eyes of the Scottish nationalist contingent here on Thaivisa, who are happy to go along with this nonsense. Anybody with an ounce of political nous, ( That probably excludes you Blether despite your high opinion of yourself), knows that when there is a democratic vote on this there will be a clear majority in favour of the status quo. The average Scotsman( or Scotslady) is not stupid, they know which side of the bread is buttered. And after this vote finally settles the matter Alex Salmond will fade away into UK political obscurity, probably to expose himself as the ultimate hypocrite by taking a well renumerated job in the EU. He wouldn't be the first. And won't be the last. You never know Blether, he might want someone to carry his bags!

IYO.

[theblether]

I note the recent personal attack on me and I can't be bothered gracing it with a direct response. It's the kind of post you get when the member doesn't read the thread. Everyone that's paid attention to the thread knows what I expect the result to be.

There seems to be a failure by many people to realize that this referendum will result in a far greater level of clarity as to the true position of future Scottish independence. Questions will be answered during this process that David Cameron and the Unionists would prefer not to be. A prime example is the situation with Europe. Cameron clearly stated that he would not ask for clarification as to the position of Scotland in regards to the EU, then he was side swiped by the Lords Committee. The answer he did NOT WANT TO BE PROVIDED may well be forthcoming. He will be seriously p*ssed off at that.

I've also pointed out that there will be a period of negotiation between a Yes vote and Independence day, I reckon that period will be about two years, but it could be longer. DURING THAT PERIOD, the negotiation in regards to EU membership will take place, there is no doubt whatsoever that the EU will accept Scottish membership, anyone that believes otherwise is howling at the moon.

I find it comical that none of the English members of this thread have yet sussed out the real reason for the Act of Union 1707, maybe Google has broken down, or maybe it's not being asked the correct question?. You'll find the real reason for that Act will come back into play in the event of a Yes vote, in fact, I can guarantee it.

That;s because I have a high opinion of myself of course huh? Or maybe it's because I took the time to study the relevant parts the old fashioned way, you know, by studying, and cross referencing, history books

Reading books, who would have thought eh?

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Just sayin'

[7by7]

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Careful; phuketjock doesn't like it when people mention history!

[theblether]

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Careful; phuketjock doesn't like it when people mention history!

The thing is though PJ knows exactly what I'm talking about. The subject at hand is fascinating and still in play today, and I will say that although the Scots were a major part of this subject within the context of the British Isles, the issue at hand is a third party issue.

It would be better if our English compatriots re-read history from a neutral perspective, and not reading it as one long episode of Sharp.

[7by7]

http://www.independe...nd-8390486.html

If you were to scroll back a few posts, or even read the thread you would see this

has already been dealt with. Biased sensational journalism is pure speculation and

nothing else, until the facts surface it is nothing but conjecture, no more no less.

post #1078 to be precise.

This has been dealt with some time ago in this topic, and The Independent report and The Scotsman report both show that the lie Salmond is attempting to perpetuate is just that; a lie.

Scottish membership of the EU post independence will not be an automatic, foregone conclusion.

An independent Scotland will not be a member of the EU and will have to negotiate membership.

Read back through the topic and you will see that this is the view of the EU president, the EU commission and several governments of EU member states, e.g. Belgium.

And apols to theblether, as you denigrate all my sources I assumed you had done the same when I quoted The Scotsman. To be fair, that source you didn't denigrate; you simply ignored the quote.

Edited December 9, 2012 by 7by7

[7by7]

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Careful; phuketjock doesn't like it when people mention history!

The thing is though PJ knows exactly what I'm talking about. The subject at hand is fascinating and still in play today,

I see; you give us all a history lesson and it's relevant; folium does it and you call it as relevant as an episode of a fictional TV programme!

Once again you have proven that only sources which help your argument are acceptable to you, all others are to be ridiculed or ignored!

As ever throughout this topic; you are hiding from the big issues and terrified that the SNP house of cards is on the verge of collapse; much like Salmond!

[folium]

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Didn't realize you lived in Spean Bridge. Lucky you, great part of the world.

Very special place, and the inscription on the memorial really sums up what this debate is all about. Thank you for reminding me.

[theblether]

Bizarrely I was talking to an American yesterday and I directed him to that memorial Folium, it's quite stunning. I was sitting next to it when Paul Lawrie sank the winning putt at Carnoustie in 1999?

Tanks for the photo, that's getting saved.

ps Folium, I live 300 metres from Glasgow Green......

Edited December 9, 2012 by theblether

[theblether]

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Careful; phuketjock doesn't like it when people mention history!

The thing is though PJ knows exactly what I'm talking about. The subject at hand is fascinating and still in play today,

I see; you give us all a history lesson and it's relevant; folium does it and you call it as relevant as an episode of a fictional TV programme!

Once again you have proven that only sources which help your argument are acceptable to you, all others are to be ridiculed or ignored!

As ever throughout this topic; you are hiding from the big issues and terrified that the SNP house of cards is on the verge of collapse; much like Salmond!

I think you'll find that I'm completely ripping the p*ss out of the contingent here that rely upon Google as their primary source of info. It would be better that some of you actually studied the real reason for the Act of Union and why it has a direct relevance upon this debate and stopped behaving like Little Englanders.

Queen Anne was a wee genius

.

Edited December 9, 2012 by theblether

[7by7]

maybe it's because I took the time to study the relevant parts the old fashioned way, you know, by studying, and cross referencing, history books

I have visions of you hunched in your chair over your desk, reading glasses perched on the end of your nose, quill pen in hand whilst you pour over your books by candlelight.

The rest of us live in the 21st century and use more modern methods of research.

I doubt that many of your fellow Scots have "studied the real reason for the Act of Union and why it has a direct relevance upon this debate."

Remember, that the ordinary Englishman and woman has as much say in it as the ordinary Scotsman or woman; that is, none at all.

Maybe it's time you stopped living in the past and thought about the future; as the present troubles in Belfast show, dwelling on what are seen as past injustices leads nowhere.

Edited December 9, 2012 by 7by7

[phuketjock]

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Didn't realize you lived in Spean Bridge. Lucky you, great part of the world.

Very special place, and the inscription on the memorial really sums up what this debate is all about. Thank you for reminding me.

That's amazing were there commandos at Culloden then ????

[theblether]

maybe it's because I took the time to study the relevant parts the old fashioned way, you know, by studying, and cross referencing, history books

I have visions of you hunched in your chair over your desk, reading glasses perched on the end of your nose, quill pen in hand whilst you pour over your books by candlelight.

The rest of us live in the 21st century and use more modern methods of research.

I doubt that many of your fellow Scots have "studied the real reason for the Act of Union and why it has a direct relevance upon this debate."

Remember, that the ordinary Englishman and woman has as much say in it as the ordinary Scotsman or woman; that is, none at all.

Maybe it's time you stopped living in the past and thought about the future; as the present troubles in Belfast show, dwelling on what are seen as past injustices leads nowhere.

I'm a wee bit astounded that you said that 7x7...........If we don't remember our history then we are condemned to repeat it.

[7by7]

So what is the lesson?

That it was unpopular among many ordinary Scots? Same could be said of the English.

That it was only passed in the Scottish Parliament dues to widespread bribery? That's how politics worked in the 18th century, in the English and Scottish Parliaments to name but two. Many would say that's how it still works today, only less blatant!

This is not the first time you have told us that we should learn the lessons of history; but despite being frequently asked to enlighten us you have failed to do so.

Instead you revel in ridiculing what you perceive to be our ignorance.

So, enlighten me; what lessons can be learned from the 1707 Act of Union which are relevant to this referendum and the SNP's cause?

[StreetCowboy]

So what is the lesson?

That it was unpopular among many ordinary Scots? Same could be said of the English.

That it was only passed in the Scottish Parliament dues to widespread bribery? That's how politics worked in the 18th century, in the English and Scottish Parliaments to name but two. Many would say that's how it still works today, only less blatant!

This is not the first time you have told us that we should learn the lessons of history; but despite being frequently asked to enlighten us you have failed to do so.

Instead you revel in ridiculing what you perceive to be our ignorance.

So, enlighten me; what lessons can be learned from the 1707 Act of Union which are relevant to this referendum and the SNP's cause?

The 1707 Act was passed to enshrine in legislation the existing state of affairs, and to minimise the risk of conflict between England and Scotland. By the eighteenth century, the medieval / rennaissance practices of holding wars through reiving or maneuvering bands of mercenaries had gone the way of the testudo, and war had become even more bloody and damaging than the butchery of old. Can you imagine if England had sided against Scotland and with their cousin the Kaiser in 1914, and the green fields of France had been in Melrose?

The 1707 Act reminds us that unity and solidarity are to be valued for themselves, for the peace that they bring, and that if to achieve such peace we must live with our neighbours, however despicable, then so be it. Perhaps if we spent less effort whinging, more effort was spent in the political gym improving the EU, trimming it and heightening its fitness, we would be better off - and happier too.

SC

[theblether]

So what is the lesson?

That it was unpopular among many ordinary Scots? Same could be said of the English.

That it was only passed in the Scottish Parliament dues to widespread bribery? That's how politics worked in the 18th century, in the English and Scottish Parliaments to name but two. Many would say that's how it still works today, only less blatant!

This is not the first time you have told us that we should learn the lessons of history; but despite being frequently asked to enlighten us you have failed to do so.

Instead you revel in ridiculing what you perceive to be our ignorance.

So, enlighten me; what lessons can be learned from the 1707 Act of Union which are relevant to this referendum and the SNP's cause?

SC has answered you well.....and we are on opposing sides of the Independence debate.

[StreetCowboy]

So what is the lesson?

That it was unpopular among many ordinary Scots? Same could be said of the English.

That it was only passed in the Scottish Parliament dues to widespread bribery? That's how politics worked in the 18th century, in the English and Scottish Parliaments to name but two. Many would say that's how it still works today, only less blatant!

This is not the first time you have told us that we should learn the lessons of history; but despite being frequently asked to enlighten us you have failed to do so.

Instead you revel in ridiculing what you perceive to be our ignorance.

So, enlighten me; what lessons can be learned from the 1707 Act of Union which are relevant to this referendum and the SNP's cause?

SC has answered you well.....and we are on opposing sides of the Independence debate.

I suppose the fundamental question is whether one should break up something that seems not to be working, or try to fix it?

"We've been crying out for much too long

Now it's time to dance to a different song":

and that's why young people don't get the vote, normally. Anyway, let's see what happens when the Scottish teenagers

"Smash it up, Smash it uup"

SC

[7by7]

Indeed, a strong argument for maintaining the union.

So, your many comments on the Act, such as

It would be better that some of you actually studied the real reason for the Act of Union and why it has a direct relevance upon this debate

are actually supporting the union?

And i thought you were a nationalist!

[folium]

ps. I live 300 metres away from a monument to the real reason for the Act Of Union 1707.

Didn't realize you lived in Spean Bridge. Lucky you, great part of the world.

Very special place, and the inscription on the memorial really sums up what this debate is all about. Thank you for reminding me.

That's amazing were there commandos at Culloden then ????

Typically pathetic response...but then I suppose it fits the pattern. Shame you find it hard to actually make any meaningful contributions, perhaps you need some lessons from your big "brother", TB. At least he is capable of debate.

[theblether]

Indeed, a strong argument for maintaining the union.

So, your many comments on the Act, such as

It would be better that some of you actually studied the real reason for the Act of Union and why it has a direct relevance upon this debate

are actually supporting the union?

And i thought you were a nationalist!

I'm not an idiot, I know why the Act Of Union came about, and I know the benefits of the Union. I am of the opinion that the Union has run it's course, and it has run it's course due to a complete failure of the Unionist parties.

[7by7]

So why do you keep on telling us to research the 'real' reasons for it and that these 'real' reasons are relevant to the nationalist cause?

[StreetCowboy]

Indeed, a strong argument for maintaining the union.

So, your many comments on the Act, such as

It would be better that some of you actually studied the real reason for the Act of Union and why it has a direct relevance upon this debate

are actually supporting the union?

And i thought you were a nationalist!

I'm not an idiot, I know why the Act Of Union came about, and I know the benefits of the Union. I am of the opinion that the Union has run it's course, and it has run it's course due to a complete failure of the Unionist parties.

And yet you think that we can find a better government within the confines of our own limited nation than can be found in the whole of the United Kingdom? Within a limited nation that views the world as it's oyster, and government a parochial backwater for deadwoods? In days of old the brightest talents in Scotland were away administering and trading in foreign lands, establishing world-class brands like Cathay Pacific in sleepy fishing villages... and the same remains true today. No offence intended, but do you really think that you will be able to tempt the governmental equivalents of Sir Alex Feguson back north of the Tweed?

SC

[theblether]

Indeed, a strong argument for maintaining the union.

So, your many comments on the Act, such as

It would be better that some of you actually studied the real reason for the Act of Union and why it has a direct relevance upon this debate

are actually supporting the union?

And i thought you were a nationalist!

I'm not an idiot, I know why the Act Of Union came about, and I know the benefits of the Union. I am of the opinion that the Union has run it's course, and it has run it's course due to a complete failure of the Unionist parties.

And yet you think that we can find a better government within the confines of our own limited nation than can be found in the whole of the United Kingdom? Within a limited nation that views the world as it's oyster, and government a parochial backwater for deadwoods? In days of old the brightest talents in Scotland were away administering and trading in foreign lands, establishing world-class brands like Cathay Pacific in sleepy fishing villages... and the same remains true today. No offence intended, but do you really think that you will be able to tempt the governmental equivalents of Sir Alex Feguson back north of the Tweed?

SC

I'm not offended.

Our British political class has led us to bankruptcy and moral collapse, recession, stagnation in public services and a disappearance up their collective behinds when it comes to representing the views of the people of the nation, and by that, I mean the whole of the UK.

Your ad hominem argument holds no water, you would convince me better if the current UK government was a Rolls Royce operation, however in that task, I fear you are doomed to failure.

Just sayin'

.

Edited December 9, 2012 by theblether

[theblether]

So why do you keep on telling us to research the 'real' reasons for it and that these 'real' reasons are relevant to the nationalist cause?

In your case it's for the entertainment value, you keep jumping in to the discussion feet first, while pouring a whole lot of vinegar and bile into the debate.

I gave you the link to the fictional series Sharpe for a reason, surely even you can work out that clue.

[7by7]

So, to translate that into English:

It was simply to show us all, and me in particular, how much better educated you are.

Well, you failed; all you did was show us how smug and self satisfied you are.

BTW, I have researched the subject and do know the many and varied reasons for the Act of Union; I wonder if you do. One thing is for sure, neither the Scottish nor the English proponents of the Act were motivated by altruism!

They were in it for what they personally could get out of it; a bit like someone we know; hint, initials AS.

PS

For someone who complained a few posts back about being insulted, you're very free with the insults yourself; have been throughout this topic, in fact!

Double standards, like AS again!