No Ducking The Issue Of Rising Gun Crime: Thai Editorial

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

No ducking the issue of rising gun crime

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- With illegal possession of firearms rampant in Thailand, it should come as no surprise that we have the highest rate of gun murder in Asia

Until recently, "Bangkok Dangerous" was merely a popular action film. But Thailand may soon be known less as the "Land of Smiles" than as one of the most dangerous countries on earth.

A recent Reuters report headlined "Friendly Thailand stares down the barrel of rising gun crime" offers a stark picture. Reuters reports that Thailand has the highest number of guns in civilian hands in Southeast Asia - almost four times more than the Philippines, a country notorious for violent gun crime.

In fact, the report hardly comes as a surprise. Open any newspaper any day and you'll find many reports of murder, rape, sexual assault and human trafficking, many of which involve illegal possession of guns.

Gun crime in Thailand has made international headlines because several foreign tourists have become victims. Perceived lax policing of violent crime makes many tourists think twice before choosing this country as a destination.

Guns are easily available in Thailand, and a huge number of people possess deadly weapons illegally. Some of these firearms were smuggled across the border. Others were imported for the police or military but then somehow found their way into private hands.

Hardened criminals, however, are not the only perpetrators of Thai gun crime. Student gangs use guns to settle scores with each other in long-running feuds. Law-enforcement agencies are feeling the strain and don't seem to be effectively combating the problem.

The law prohibits anyone under the age of 20 from owning a gun. In addition, certain requirements must be met before a gun licence is issued. But, in reality, guns are easy to find here.

Every Thai is a stakeholder in this issue. The violence not only affects innocent victims - bystanders caught in the crossfire - but also erodes people's perception of how safe Thailand is, and saps public morale.

Thais are known as a generous and welcoming people, but this reputation could soon be a thing of the past. The flow of money in our growing economy has made some people greedy, with the more unscrupulous tempted to think they can get things easily without having to work hard. As a result criminals sometimes target tourists for their cash and other valuables.

Reuters reported that Thailand has the highest rate of murder by gun in Asia, citing figures at www.GunPolicy.org, which is hosted by the University of Sydney's School of Public Health in Australia. Thailand saw an average of 5.3 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2011, compared to 0.2 in the Philippines, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime reported.

Widespread illegal possession of guns can be attributed to increasing criminal activity in Thailand, from the drugs trade and burglary to human trafficking and gambling. But attempts by police to enforce the law have been hampered by links between criminals and those in power.

The result is a loss of confidence in law enforcement that has led an increasing number of ordinary citizens to seek out guns to protect themselves, further fueling the demand for firearms. This trend only increases the number of weapons that could potentially fall into the wrong hands.

If our law-enforcement agencies fail to address this issue effectively, it is not just tourist dollars - a mainstay of the Thai economy - that will decline. The wellbeing and security of all who live in Thailand will also suffer.

It would be unfortunate if "the Land of Smiles" one day became just an ironic label for a Thailand grimacing under gun crime.

-- The Nation 2012-10-26

[FOODLOVER]

Did the senator who killed his ex wife with an uzi have a license? What about the Democrat who allegedly blew a guys head off in a crowded toilet, did he have a license? What about Chalerms sons who allegedly killed a police officer in a night club by holding him down and shooting him , did they have a license?

"But attempts by police to enforce the law have been hampered by links between criminals and those in power".

What about those in power being the murdering criminals, what then?

[jerrysteve]

They may have the highest number of murders by the Gun in Asia,

but I believe the U.S.A holds the world's record.

[Thai at Heart]

There is a farang offering them for sale in town via the local coppers.

[DP25]

Unbelievable that The Nation is writing an editorial on that horribly written article with faulty information written by a faux journalist.

Reuters reported that Thailand has the highest rate of murder by gun in Asia, citing figures at www.GunPolicy.org, which is hosted by the University of Sydney's School of Public Health in Australia. Thailand saw an average of 5.3 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2011, compared to 0.2 in the Philippines, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime reported.

The gun murder rate in Thailand is not 5.3 gun murders per 100,000 people. That is the TOTAL murder rate. If anyone writing this article had bothered to actually look at the sources used by the faux journalist of the original article they would have realized that

From Gunpolicy.org (you have to use googlecache as the website appears to be down)

In Thailand, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 3,654

In Thailand, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is

2010: 5.3

5.3 per 100,000 is the TOTAL rate for 2010. Not just for guns. Gun murder statistics for Thailand do no exist, at least publicly, because the police do not release data on which method someone was murdered by! Only the total.

The entire original article was complete BS and so is any editorial based off of it. So much misinformation on gun murder statistics in Thailand.

Edited October 26, 2012 by DP25

[DP25]

Did the senator who killed his ex wife with an uzi have a license?

There was no uzi, it was just a pistol made by a company who makes uzis, and the idiot reporter messed it up.

[FOODLOVER]

Did the senator who killed his ex wife with an uzi have a license?

There was no uzi, it was just a pistol made by a company who makes uzis, and the idiot reporter messed it up.

Sorry, thought the company name was Uzi that made several models including the Eagle which is a pistol.

[fareastguy]

[lizardtongue]

But attempts by police to enforce the law have been hampered by links between criminals and those in power.

Understatement of the year

[toenail]

True, the USA has the highest murder rate from guns compared to any other "developed, Western" society --but this is due to an archiac "right to bear arms" in the government's constitution. When this was written, the former colony had no police force, no organized army, and the settlers needed a gun for hunting and protection. Back then there were no automatic rifles, machine guns, or fire arms that could massacre so many. Despite this embarassing NO. 1 title, most Americans can handle their "anger management" and do not rely on guns to "save face" with someone they disagree with. With Thais, it seems that killing someone (gun, knife, poison...) over a simple issue is a matter of fact,not thinking of the consequences.

[asiawatcher]

"The result is a loss of confidence in law enforcement"... Was there ever ANY confidence in Thai law or the Police?

The Police are tagged as Mafia in Brown Uniforms and frankly that seems to be the case and it will be a long time before that perception is changed. I am (almost) sure there are B.i.B. who are righteous, intelligent but are in a cesspool unable to gain support or assistance to clear out the corrupt floating 'blind mullets' causing the problem. It would be quite exasperating for any good man within the ranks but until there is a man at the top, who reads the riot act to the Police and starts chopping off heads when found corrupt, the police will be unable to enforce gun laws, stop crims and improve their image.

[Unkomoncents]

They may have the highest number of murders by the Gun in Asia,

but I believe the U.S.A holds the world's record.

Perhaps, but Thailand has more intentional homicides than the USA, on a per capita basis. A quick Google search will confirm that.

[Unkomoncents]

But attempts by police to enforce the law have been hampered by links between criminals and those in power.

"links"?! In Thailand, the criminals are those in power.

[fstarbkk]

Well said asiawatcher! If credible evidence was discovered that there is any confidence in law enforcement to start with, that would be news. I believe that most people (myself included) see law enforcement more as part of the problem, than the solution.

Until the voters and their elected officials show the political will to hold government agencies including the police to the same or a higher standard of accountability as an ordinary citizen, there is no hope for improvement. Things will continue to devolve toward a wild-west situation.

The pesence of unauthorised firearms in such a volatile invironment certainly does not help. But make no mistake: Thailand does not have a gun-problem. It has a values-problem, a personal intergrity-problem a government-accountable-to-its-people-problem and many other problems that need to be addressed to curb the violence.

If you doubt this, look at places like Switzerland. There is a firearm (often an assault-rifle) in almost every household. Yet the country has a microscopic rate of gun violence.

[Cardiff1963]

Unbelievable that The Nation is writing an editorial on that horribly written article with faulty information written by a faux journalist.

Reuters reported that Thailand has the highest rate of murder by gun in Asia, citing figures at www.GunPolicy.org, which is hosted by the University of Sydney's School of Public Health in Australia. Thailand saw an average of 5.3 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2011, compared to 0.2 in the Philippines, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime reported.

The gun murder rate in Thailand is not 5.3 gun murders per 100,000 people. That is the TOTAL murder rate. If anyone writing this article had bothered to actually look at the sources used by the faux journalist of the original article they would have realized that

From Gunpolicy.org (you have to use googlecache as the website appears to be down)

If it contributes in any way to getting guns and the owners off the street. Who cares?

In Thailand, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 3,654

In Thailand, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is

2010: 5.3

5.3 per 100,000 is the TOTAL rate for 2010. Not just for guns. Gun murder statistics for Thailand do no exist, at least publicly, because the police do not release data on which method someone was murdered by! Only the total.

The entire original article was complete BS and so is any editorial based off of it. So much misinformation on gun murder statistics in Thailand.

[Tanaka]

Did the senator who killed his ex wife with an uzi have a license? What about the Democrat who allegedly blew a guys head off in a crowded toilet, did he have a license? What about Chalerms sons who allegedly killed a police officer in a night club by holding him down and shooting him , did they have a license?

"But attempts by police to enforce the law have been hampered by links between criminals and those in power".

What about those in power being the murdering criminals, what then?

Then. You have Thailand of today. And where will that take the country? Not up and forward, that is for sure. Add the corruption and lack of education and you have a paved road towards a monumental disaster. Before long too.

[Arkady]

A big part of the problem is the Ministry of the Interior's tax free gun procurement programme for provincial officials. Anyone who is a village defence volunteer can get a letter from the village headman and buy tax free pistols. They then sell them off, file a report that the gun has been lost and can immediately buy another tax free gun at not much more than the US retail price which is about a quarter of the Thai retail price but most of these characters would not qualify to buy through a gun strore anyway due to lack of stable job, minimum salary, money in bank etc. This programme accounts for unit sales(I think bout 200,000 a year) that are several times greater than the sales through licensed gun stores which are limited by very low quotas and high prices. Apparently a lot of these "lost" guns are now being found on criminals and have been used in violent crimes. The MoI has no intention of cancelling this gun procurement programme, as it is a big earner for a number of ministry officials.

[manutoo]

Unbelievable that The Nation is writing an editorial on that horribly written article with faulty information written by a faux journalist.

Reuters reported that Thailand has the highest rate of murder by gun in Asia, citing figures at www.GunPolicy.org, which is hosted by the University of Sydney's School of Public Health in Australia. Thailand saw an average of 5.3 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2011, compared to 0.2 in the Philippines, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime reported.

The gun murder rate in Thailand is not 5.3 gun murders per 100,000 people. That is the TOTAL murder rate. If anyone writing this article had bothered to actually look at the sources used by the faux journalist of the original article they would have realized that

From Gunpolicy.org (you have to use googlecache as the website appears to be down)

In Thailand, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 3,654

In Thailand, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is

2010: 5.3

5.3 per 100,000 is the TOTAL rate for 2010. Not just for guns. Gun murder statistics for Thailand do no exist, at least publicly, because the police do not release data on which method someone was murdered by! Only the total.

The entire original article was complete BS and so is any editorial based off of it. So much misinformation on gun murder statistics in Thailand.

Cached page on Thailand of Gunpolicy.org : http://webcache.goog...2&hl=en&ct=clnk

==>

Rate of Homicide per 100,000 People (any method)

In Thailand, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is

2000: 8.47

Rate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People

In Thailand, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is

2000: 33.00

<==

For me, the problem is with Gunpolicy.org , not with Reuters, as the total number of homicides is smaller than the number of homicides by firearm...

Here some other stats, not sure if they are better or not, as they are far above Reuters' ones, but at least they're more consistent than Gunpolicy.org's ones :

http://www.nationmas...per-100-000-pop # 4 Thailand: 41.4695 (Overall homicide rate)

http://www.nationmas...per-100-000-pop # 3 Thailand: 33.0016 (Firearm homicide rate)

[asiawatcher]

Well said asiawatcher! If credible evidence was discovered that there is any confidence in law enforcement to start with, that would be news. I believe that most people (myself included) see law enforcement more as part of the problem, than the solution.

Until the voters and their elected officials show the political will to hold government agencies including the police to the same or a higher standard of accountability as an ordinary citizen, there is no hope for improvement. Things will continue to devolve toward a wild-west situation.

The pesence of unauthorised firearms in such a volatile invironment certainly does not help. But make no mistake: Thailand does not have a gun-problem. It has a values-problem, a personal intergrity-problem a government-accountable-to-its-people-problem and many other problems that need to be addressed to curb the violence.

If you doubt this, look at places like Switzerland. There is a firearm (often an assault-rifle) in almost every household. Yet the country has a microscopic rate of gun violence.

All very valid and to the point. The fish always stinks from the head down - perhaps that is where the do-gooders should start - at least it would be a start.

[Halion]

Did the senator who killed his ex wife with an uzi have a license?

There was no uzi, it was just a pistol made by a company who makes uzis, and the idiot reporter messed it up.

Sorry, thought the company name was Uzi that made several models including the Eagle which is a pistol.

The Senator who supposedly shot his wife while trying to de -chamber a jammed round did so with an Uzi Jerhico model 941. 9mm semi automatic pistol, 15 round magazine, also as someone pointed out this model is often referred to as a Baby Eagle.

Same way that vacum cleaners were referred to as Hovers for most of my young life. Uzi is genericaly an Isrelai arms manufacturer.

[rijb]

They may have the highest number of murders by the Gun in Asia,

but I believe the U.S.A holds the world's record.

True, the USA has the highest murder rate from guns compared to any other "developed, Western" society --but this is due to an archiac "right to bear arms" in the government's constitution. When this was written, the former colony had no police force, no organized army, and the settlers needed a gun for hunting and protection. Back then there were no automatic rifles, machine guns, or fire arms that could massacre so many. Despite this embarassing NO. 1 title, most Americans can handle their "anger management" and do not rely on guns to "save face" with someone they disagree with. With Thais, it seems that killing someone (gun, knife, poison...) over a simple issue is a matter of fact,not thinking of the consequences.

The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so. - Josh Billings

[dragons70]

Piss a guy off in a pub in Sydney,London, New York etc and you might cop a punch in the head.

Piss the wrong guy off in a Bangkok nightclub and you could lose your head. Yeah perhaps exaggeration, but the odds are certainly higher.

Playing with stats is easy, but the important message of the article,is that guns ARE rife in Thailand and the use of them and deadly force comes easy to Thais. In a society where money,status,beauty and physical size/shape are the be all - guns are the ultimate playing field leveller. This can be said for most of SE Asia. I have seen one Taxi driver shoot another on Sukhumvit road, a 7/11 getting robbed at gunpoint by a meth whacked youth whilst buying my bread and a pissed off driver shooting at another car because it didnt move over for him on the no. 7 motorway.Im sure other readers have similar stories. In time spent in Mexico,Philippines,Cambodia and the USA, I have not seen a single crime involving guns. This knowledge of Thai gun worship over the years has led me to try and follow these rules 1) dont get rotten drunk in public watering holes/discos 2) never pick an argument/fight with a Thai as annoying as they may be 3) never deliberately cause a Thai to lose face in public and 4) never cheat on my Thai wife. Problem is, at times when I have not stayed true to rule 1, all the other rules go out the window :-) Would be interesting to break down the percentage of homicide offenders with gun MO, who were under the influence of alcohol at the time of the crime?? Im guessing its pretty high. But we'll never see an article about the problems that alcohol abuse causes in Thai society will we?? There's more money to be made in beer and whiskey than gun trafficking, no doubt about that....

[Paangjang]

There is a farang offering them for sale in town via the local coppers.

I have a Thai friend up in Bangkok who was selling firearms for a while. He had a deal with a local police station that he baught them from. In the end he said the police were asking for too much money for the guns, so he gave up dealing.

[osiboy]

True, the USA has the highest murder rate from guns compared to any other "developed, Western" society --but this is due to an archiac "right to bear arms" in the government's constitution. When this was written, the former colony had no police force, no organized army, and the settlers needed a gun for hunting and protection. Back then there were no automatic rifles, machine guns, or fire arms that could massacre so many. Despite this embarassing NO. 1 title, most Americans can handle their "anger management" and do not rely on guns to "save face" with someone they disagree with. With Thais, it seems that killing someone (gun, knife, poison...) over a simple issue is a matter of fact,not thinking of the consequences.

so if all of this is true{and i dont doubt it is} , why hav'nt they changed the law in the 300+ yrs they've had to change it ?....and could you please shed light on the most common form of firearms murders in the US ..........is it turf wars, armed robbery ?, and what party is more likely to ban guns ? would i be right in thinking it would be the dems ?

thanks, OSIBOY .

[FarangTalk]

The truth is always a bitter pill to swallow.

[DP25]

Cached page on Thailand of Gunpolicy.org : http://webcache.goog...2&hl=en&ct=clnk

==>

Rate of Homicide per 100,000 People (any method)

In Thailand, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is

2000: 8.47

Rate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People

In Thailand, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is

2000: 33.00

<==

For me, the problem is with Gunpolicy.org , not with Reuters, as the total number of homicides is smaller than the number of homicides by firearm...

Here some other stats, not sure if they are better or not, as they are far above Reuters' ones, but at least they're more consistent than Gunpolicy.org's ones :

http://www.nationmas...per-100-000-pop # 4 Thailand: 41.4695 (Overall homicide rate)

http://www.nationmas...per-100-000-pop # 3 Thailand: 33.0016 (Firearm homicide rate)

Yes, that is a translation issue that Thai police statistics had around the year 2000 and is a common error. Around that time Thailand was reporting gun CRIME (number of illegal guns confiscated by police) as gun MURDER. That statistic is simply wrong.

You can look at police statistics here

http://statistic.pol....th/dn_main.htm

http://statistic.pol...50/dec_2554.pdf

Total number of murders 2011, was 3,307

Total number of gun crime 2011, was 24,243 normal guns and 585 war weapons

The Nationamaster statics are simply taking the gun crime number and reporting it as gun murder. Thai police only release total murder statics.

So thats why some years around 2000 gun murder statics are higher than total murder statics. They released a total murder number that was correct, and then they mistranslated a number for gun crime as gun murder and released that.

Edited October 26, 2012 by DP25

[Jimjim]

Did the senator who killed his ex wife with an uzi have a license? What about the Democrat who allegedly blew a guys head off in a crowded toilet, did he have a license? What about Chalerms sons who allegedly killed a police officer in a night club by holding him down and shooting him , did they have a license?

"But attempts by police to enforce the law have been hampered by links between criminals and those in power".

What about those in power being the murdering criminals, what then?

I don't remember the one with the Democrat in a crowded toilet. Care to point met to that one? Send a PM if possible.

[Jimjim]

Did the senator who killed his ex wife with an uzi have a license? What about the Democrat who allegedly blew a guys head off in a crowded toilet, did he have a license? What about Chalerms sons who allegedly killed a police officer in a night club by holding him down and shooting him , did they have a license?

"But attempts by police to enforce the law have been hampered by links between criminals and those in power".

What about those in power being the murdering criminals, what then?

I don't remember the one with the Democrat in a crowded toilet. Care to point met to that one? Send a PM if possible.

nevermind i found it

[manutoo]

Yes, that is a translation issue that Thai police statistics had around the year 2000 and is a common error. Around that time Thailand was reporting gun CRIME (number of illegal guns confiscated by police) as gun MURDER. That statistic is simply wrong.

You can look at police statistics here

http://statistic.pol....th/dn_main.htm

http://statistic.pol...50/dec_2554.pdf

Total number of murders 2011, was 3,307

Total number of gun crime 2011, was 24,243 normal guns and 585 war weapons

The Nationamaster statics are simply taking the gun crime number and reporting it as gun murder. Thai police only release total murder statics.

So thats why some years around 2000 gun murder statics are higher than total murder statics. They released a total murder number that was correct, and then they mistranslated a number for gun crime as gun murder and released that.

Ok, glad to know I may remove my bulletproof jacket to go to buy my bread at 7/11 ..!

Edited October 27, 2012 by manutoo

[fakename]

Ever notice how many Thai's wear t-shirts with pictures of guns? Combine that with a 14yo mentality, and its a recipe for a shooting. Even my wife thinks its cool.