How To Work With/manage Thais

[Tippaporn]

First off, if the mods feel this topic needs to be elsewhere then by all means move it.

This is a spinoff of the off-topic discussion that developed in the "Do You Regret Moving To Thailand?, Or do you know expats who regret moving?" thread. I thought this might be an invaluable thread to quite a few people working in Thailand or owning a business with Thai employees.

I had worked for a multi-national corporation managing an engineering and tooling department in a metal stamping manufacturing environment. During my 1-1/2 years there I felt that I had not achieved the success that I was after (although the Thais in my charge did have huge respect for me and liked me immensely). Rather than going into a lot of personal details at this point (it's late at night for me right now and I'm sure my details will all be borne out in time) I figure this will be enough of an opener to get some replies/comments/suggestions/etc. and a general discussion going.

I'm currently planning on opening a new business in the manufacturing sector and will certainly have quite a few Thai employees. From my previous experience I understand a lot of the pitfalls and this aspect weighs heavily on my mind.

[Soju]

Tippaporn,

Thanks for starting the new thread. As you, I'm also very interested in this topic. I don't as of yet have any experience managing Thai workers, but hope to soon.

GuestHouse made a very interesting post back in the old thread, that I'd like to comment on, so will copy it here along with my comments.

I think I should state right up front, I have no problems with working with Thais in Thailand, or elsewhere for that matter. I thoroughly enjoyed working with our Thai staff, still do enjoy working with our Thai staff and contrary to the often negative views we hear about Thai workers I believe those I worked with to be professional and reliable.

I would put the team I worked with up against any team of workers in the same field anywhere – They do a great job, they do it on time, in budget and manage to have fun while doing so.

This cannot be said of many of the expats I have worked with in Thailand, their primary objective becomes justifying their existence. This includes running down Thai staff, who they are supposed to be training, and extends to some of the worst behavior I have witnessed anywhere.

I’m still an expat, but I’m now in Italy, and when I was asked to assemble a team to help on this project I jumped at the chance to invite three of my former Thai staff to join me. They are doing a great job, great ambassadors for themselves, Thailand and of course our company.

With very few exceptions I wouldn’t choose to work again with any of the Farangs I’ve worked with in Thailand – They are just not up to the job anymore and above all they lack the professionalism they were suposedly hired for.

GuestHouse has a very different experience than many others do, and I think the key thing to realize is that everyone is different. We generalize about a particular culture when compared to our own culture, but it's just that, a generalization about the average person in that culture. Many, many people will differ significantly from the norm. And then the norm is just our perception and may not even be very accurate.

If you can assemble your own team, pick carefully the people you hire and be sure they have the qualities you're looking for in a worker. Or if you're inheriting a team, hopefully someone else already selected a good group that you can work well with. Learning about the culture is important, but it's also very important to view each person as an individual and to not blindly assume that everyone is the same.

[Tippaporn]

I hope Guesthouse joins in. I've worked with a great number of Thais; some of them were extremely industrious, very intelligent, and quite capable in their roles. Others were not. Of course, that scenario exists everywhere so I, myself, would tend not to generalize about Thais in that sense.

I probably could have done better while I was managing here, especially where culture differences were concerned. But it's a learning process so I don't feel bad about any mistakes I did make. I would just like to learn much more so that I could create the best possible situation.

If there are books on the subject out there then I'll certainly read those. But actual dialoguing with others has it's own advantages, especially with those who've enjoyed success (in terms of getting work done and creating good relations).

[phuketsiam]

I was managing up 35 Thai's at one point, although management style has to be different to what it is back home, I found Thai staff overall a pleasure to work with and perfectly capable. Like all nationalities, there are good and bad everywhere

[GuestHouse]

What a topic this could turn out to be, the theme is endless and as suggested above, very dependent on the circumstances the expat finds him/herself in.

However, from my won experience, which has been working within a large Multinational and with Thais raging from highly educated Chula/Thamasat/King Monkhut through to Thai day laborers, I think there are some golden rules that surely apply across the board, I’d sum them up as follows:

Right up front is respect.

You’ve heard that crap lines on TV and in Films ‘You Have to Earn Respect’, I have never believed that. OK, ‘You’ or ‘I’ might from time to Time have to earn respect, but ‘You’ or ‘I’ should start with respecting those who we are going to work with. In Thailand, Thais will start by respecting you for a number of reasons, perhaps you are the boss, you are older, you are a Farang, you are highly educated (add to the list as you wish).

That is the starting point – Now for a Crappy Sound Bite – ‘That level of Respect comes with Responsibilities’

You have to live up to that level of respect, if you don’t, and many do not, then your working relationship will suffer. How you deal with that, is up to you, but you need to live up to expectations if you want to continue a good relationship.

Make respect go both ways, have clearly written conduct requirements. Time keeping is an example (explain to Thais that lateness to make meetings is regarded in our culture as disrespect, likewise lateness delivering on promises).

Living With Thai Culture – But Playing the Game

Hugely important, you have to work with Thai culture but not get fooled by what you are being told about Thai culture. You have to look after your staff, encourage their efforts and help them when they have problems, but that does not mean excusing their failings and certainly should never mean covering up their failings.

Thais, like the rest of us will get up to all manner of tricks to avoid not doing what they want, or getting what they want. You have to be absolutely on your guard that culture is not used as an excuse – it is something that adds to the work environment, it should not be allowed to take from the work environment and certainly not control the work environment. Play the game, you have your culture, they have theirs, the company culture is a mixture of the two – This next point goes amiss on many an expat – Thais enjoy your culture just as much as you enjoy theirs, it is just as colorful and interesting to them. So if a Thai employee invites you to their wedding, turn up in a suit and Tie, play the part, look the part.

Caution – Be very careful of having any one single Thai being your window into Thai culture and what is happening in the work place – They will somewhere down the line abuse the position.

Learn the Language

Not just Thai language, but the right Thai language. This dependent on who you are going to be working with of course, but if you have any kind of business that gets you in touch with Thais in real positions of authority then speaking polite central Thai is essential. OK it might not open doors, but believe me a misplaced ‘Arai Wah’ will slam doors in your face.

I once witnessed an expat destroy his image in the office by spouting some Thai phrases he had learned in a bar during an informal meeting.

If you aren’t learning Thai then stick to your own language – it is a lot safer.

Don’t be Fooled

This is an extension of not relying on one single person to be your window into what is going on in your Thai workplace. If you only have one person helping you out you are very much open to manipulation, and importantly, that person may be manipulating who gets to talk to you/see you/meet with you.

Learning Thai helps get you around that problem but making an effort to spend some time with each person you work with is perhaps more effective – be approachable and make use of Thais being approachable.

Then there is the second problem, don’t be fooled by good English. It is very likely that you might have one employee who speaks very good English, you then rely on them as an easy communication route.

What I have found is it pays to look past the language and keep an eye out for people who make that extra effort, that extra bright person – don’t let people be hidden by a lack of language skills – not easy but important.

Break the Rules

Thais often feel hemmed in by their culture, particularly the class side of their culture and I have often had Thais tell me the thing they like most about working with foreigners is we treat them as individuals, ignoring all the class rules. So again, play the game, reward people when they make and effort, and make an effort yourself to see who needs rewarding.

Expect the best, reward the best and you will get the best.

Edited February 6, 2006 by GuestHouse

[Tippaporn]

I was managing up 35 Thai's at one point, although management style has to be different to what it is back home, I found Thai staff overall a pleasure to work with and perfectly capable. Like all nationalities, there are good and bad everywhere

In what particular way did you change your management style, phuketsiam? Or what do you feel were the main differences between managing in Thailand and back home? What do you feel were some of the most important aspects that you would attribute to your success? What do you feel were the greatest obstacles and how did you deal with them?

Just a few pointed questions.

[phuketsiam]

Thanks for asking, learning not to critisise was one, its counter productive, better to say the job was done ok but here is a way to do it better, even if it was done badly. another one was to understand that when a thai doesn't understand quite often they will not admit it, so you have to test the person to find out what they understand from your instructions. A third point is the tendancy to tell you what they think you want to hear, so if a Thai can't finish a job on time they may tell you they can because they want to avoid a problem, for this I used to explain that if they were honest with me i can and will help them, but if i have bad information and I go to my boss with that then I will have a problem with my boss, so to avoid making a BIG problem for me with my boss they must tell me the truth even when its bad news. On a more positive note I found the thais reacted well to tutoring and encouragment, often going the extra yard because they wanted to do well. I must add I looked for and got good advice when I first started and maybe I was lucky because overall I got a great bunch of people, having said that I did fire some people which was an effective wake up to the others that even tho I was a nice guy and helpful manager I wasn't soft, - that wasn't the reason I fired the people, but was a helpful by product

Finally I didn't make too manyallowances for Thai work practices, most of our clients were westerners and expected western standards, The Thai's had to understand this and a mai pen rai attitude wouldn't work, I was sensitive to their needs within the office, but they had to adjust their standards too where it mattered to my boss or the clients

hope that helps

[skylar]

GuestHouse, it's funny that in your first post that you say that you have no problems working with Thai people, yet in your subsequent post you submit a wealth of information that is based on your experience that suggests otherwise but also that you have grown from it.

In order to gain that experience, would you not have had problems working with Thai people in the past? I don't think for a second that everything was hunky dory the moment you put your foot in that door, and I wouldn't expect it to be that way either.

My father has worked with his own people, with Thais, with various nationalities of Africans, various Arabs and Turks. The reason why he was brilliant at his job in Thailand was that he could work with his teams beyond those cross-cultural differences. And it's impossible to get that experience without exactly that - experiencing - it. It's how the issue is handled that makes the difference.

[GuestHouse]

GuestHouse, it's funny that in your first post that you say that you have no problems working with Thai people, yet in your subsequent post you submit a wealth of information that is based on your experience that suggests otherwise but also that you have grown from it.

I would never go so far as to say no problems working with Thais, that would be a remarkable claim. However, I do think that a willingness to understand, and importantly understand how far you are willing to compromise is important. As I said in an earlier post, I have had no (shall we say 'real') problems working with Thais, perhaps the odd occasion when things get a bit bazzar, but nothing compaired with the problems I have seen expats in Thailand create in their efforts to 'engineer a need for their services'.

Thais are not saints, but they respond to good management like the rest of us. Importantly, if you are going to work in Thailand, accept that it is Thailand and let Thais have 'Responsibility' for their work. Never of course forgetting that with 'responsibility' comes 'accountability' and 'accountability' has rewards AND punishments.

Hey but show me an expat who moans about the Thais he works with and I'll show you someone who has failed to pass on skills of job management and/or is afraid that the Thai worker can do without the expat.

Which of course, in a well run organization he can.

[skylar]

I would never go so far as to say no problems working with Thais, that would be a remarkable claim. However, I do think that a willingness to understand, and importantly understand how far you are willing to compromise is important. As I said in an earlier post, I have had no (shall we say 'real') problems working with Thais,

You did say that though. You wrote it. I would call a communication issue a 'real' problem. Yet I did stress that it is the way the issue is handled rather than the issue itself that can make the difference.

Hey but show me an expat who moans about the Thais he works with and I'll show you someone who has failed to pass on skills of job management and/or is afraid that the Thai worker can do without the expat.

Which of course, in a well run organization he can.

I know of no expatriate, male or female, who has ever 'moaned' about the way Thais work except for my old manager who did some market research in Bangkok, who by the way, has very little interest or experience in a work environment different to what he is used to (not an expatriate). There is a difference between moaning and stating one's experience with poise, thought and careful consideration.

If a manager is afraid of their subordinates, it is more to do with the type of manager they are and are found in every culture.

The way I see it, phuketsiam has been totally honest respondent here. Good on him.

[Tippaporn]

I hope we don't start making any of these posts personal. This thread will quickly deteriorate. I appreciate everyone's input and the value of it. I will jump in and moderate (manage) if need be as I think this is a well-deserved topic that can be of great use to many. Character attacks are not well-deserved. Any good manager understands the detriment of "in-fighting," and also that of respect. Employees of mine, good or bad in terms of performance, have always deserved my respect. My judgement had only been restricted to performance and didn't need to enter into their character.

(Just woke up to go to the loo but am going back to bed).

Edited February 6, 2006 by Tippaporn

[steveromagnino]

Guest house and Phuket Siam

Very wise words,and your post on working here Guesthouse should be compulsory reading for expats coming here to work.

For the most part, the expats i have met and worked with fall into two groups:

- the absolutely terrible idiots (most of them) - easily identified with ongoing complaints and gossip about virtually every aspect of their staff's work, usually cannot speak or read Thai well or at all and frequently are unable to control their temper which makes the staff fear them, but certainly not respect them. often the worst snobs, who will attend their expat hi so functions while sneering at the maids and drivers; they play the Thai card when it suits them, then revert back to farang/foreinger mode at other times. Turnover problems, morale and low performance abounds, all stemming back to their incompetent management, which would probably be judged as poor anywhere in the world. How they get their jobs here who knows, but mostly they work in an area where the job has to be a foreigner due to contact with customers, ownership or lack of trust of the Thai staff

- the great managers - same as great managers and leaders everywhere - clear vision, clear communication, know how to handle conflict/problems in a way that people don't lose face (unless appropriate), may or may not speak Thai but certainly understand the concepts of num jai, greng jai, face, they respect all staff as people and do know when to play the Thai role, but they don't chop and change to suit themselves, rather they chop and change between the two to aid their staff and the people around them. Much loved and respected by their staff, many who are in tears if and when they leave; the love felt for a great manager or leader here is perhaps stronger than I have seen in the western countries I worked in (where a job is just that). many hold jobs that could be held by a Thai national, but the owners prefer them for their performance.

[dog412]

apologize beforehand for my reply. sound's as if a manager has to become a advanced "child psychologist",to manage the company's goal of creating a viable,profitable enerprise.

[Tippaporn]

That's usually a part of management. Employees are oftentimes analogous to kids. Everyone has their gripes and personal issues. C'est la vie.

Good input so far, though, and a thank you to Guesthouse as I invited him to join in. Hope it continues.

[Mr_Dave]

I thought this might be an invaluable thread to quite a few people working in Thailand or owning a business with Thai employees

Tippaporn - Great topic. Thank you for starting this thread.

I managed employees for 40 years. Now I am retired and living in Bangkok. Here I have two employees, personal staff, both part-time. They are superb employees. Here are 8 lessons I've learned with my Thai staff:

1. Pay often.

My staff don't work every day, but I pay them every day they do work. Both also have other jobs - where they normally get paid at the end of the month. I've observed that getting money frequently is very important to them.

2. In Thailand, an employeer is also a god-father.

Thais look to their employeer to take care of them in many ways. If one comes in with a sore throat, I give them throat lozanges. If the other cuts her finger on the job, I instruct her to wash with warm water and soap, while I get the antiseptic and a band-aid. I do not accept "mai-pen-rai". Instead I clean and bandage the cut. I've learned that the more I look after my staff, the more they look after me.

3. Allow for Thai-time.

If they are late, I smile and accept that their time "sense" is different than mine. I've never criticized either of them for being late, and I never will. But I always make a back-up plan in case they are late or don't appear for some critical event. I never depend on any Thai to arrive on time, but, surprisingly, most Thais I deal with, including my staff, do arrive on time, most of the time.

4. Always take the blame.

If a glass of water spills on the floor, I am the first to say, "kho-tord, kho-tord", as if it is my fault, even if it is not. Embarassment carries a huge price for Thais, but very little for me. I've learned to bear any embarassing situation myself.

5. Listen to their talk about their families, and, as appropriate, provide something for the families.

Last year the man and his wife had a baby daughter. I bought a car-safety-seat for the baby. My woman employee does not own a camera. I took some pleasing photos of her to show to her mother and daughter on her next trip up-country.

6. Provide extra food, beyond what's expected on the job.

I've learned that food is a "currency" of sorts in Thai relationships. If they see some food, and comment on it, I always offer it to them. The woman commented on some bananas, "Where you buy glu-ay-hom?" I offered the bananas to her. By the way she ate, it was obvious she was hungry that day. I don't mean starving, just hungry. A few weeks later she brought me a small watermellon. She knows I like watermellon. Giving - and accepting - food, is a Thai way of exchanging favours and obligations.

7. Borrowing money is a test of trust.

The man asked me for 2,000 baht "until end of month". I didn't ask why, I just gave the money to him, and I gave 3,000 baht, not 2,000. He was surprised, almost shocked. I said, "Maybe you need more tomorrow, okay, no problem." He was highly relieved. At the end of the month, immediately after being paid from his full-time job, he came to pay me back. It was a two-way test: he passed my test, and I passed his.

8. Generosity - "jai-dee" - is more highly valued in Thai culture than we Westerners can imagine.

Thais talk constantly about jai-dee when describing people. When I go shopping at Tesco with my woman staff, I always ask "What you need today?" She always says, "No need anything, ka." So I pick a bottle of shampoo off the shelf, or a bar of scented soap, and hold it out to her, "Do you like this?" Polite Thais always refuse the first offer, so I pick out something else and offer again. Quickly she understands I mean it. At first she picked a different shampoo, and the next time a different soap. But then, at another time she selected something I never would have thought of, a bottle of fabric softener for her personal laundry, "Can make cloths haawm (smell sweet)". It was something she never would spend her own money to buy. I learned that providing small luxuries is highly appreciated.

Overall, I treat my two Thai staff not like employees, but like family. They see themselves in a position somewhere between my children and my younger brother and sister. I take care of them - and, in small, indirect ways - help them to take care of their families, too. That is most important to them. In turn, they treat me as somewhere between a father and an older brother. They respect me, they obey my wishes, and they take care of me with a loving faithfulness that is wonderful to experience.

Final note: I certainly am not saying that all Thai people are like these two. They are exceptional. I observed both of them at their other jobs for about 6 months before I hired either of them. I know what to look for in choosing employees, and I looked very, very, carefully before I offered jobs to these two. I learned years ago to be very cautious before taking on any new employee. That is even more important in a different culture like Thailand.

I hope these comments are useful to other expats here, and I look forward to reading other comments on this topic.

.

[skylar]

I hope we don't start making any of these posts personal. This thread will quickly deteriorate. I appreciate everyone's input and the value of it.

I pointed out the inconsistencies between GuestHouse's first and subsequent posts and questioned them. That is not personal.

[Soju]

Just want to say this is a very good thread and thanks for everyone for all the information so far. I hope anyone else with experience in managing Thais will add their advice as well.

[Tippaporn]

I hope we don't start making any of these posts personal. This thread will quickly deteriorate. I appreciate everyone's input and the value of it.

I pointed out the inconsistencies between GuestHouse's first and subsequent posts and questioned them. That is not personal.

No problem, skylar. I thought your questioning was good, except for the inference as to Guesthouse's honesty. I believe he was being quite honest. Suggesting lack of integrity is one of the things that starts the mudslinging on these threads. Perhaps he was incomplete initially, in which case one would naturally assume that things were not smooth as silk 100% of the time and a learning curve did exist. Please understand that I would only like to avoid that scenario.

Some of the major problems that I had experienced were getting people to assume responsibility and adopting new methods of working. I ran a number of different departments, none of which had a hierachical form of leadership. That made accountability a difficult issue. When I choose whom I considered to be the best employee within a department to advance him to a leadership role the individual accepted the elevation. I would find out later that they didn't really want the position since they were unwilling to actually be in a position where they had to regulate their former "buddies." They were afraid of falling out of friendship with their coworkers.

It most likely wouldn't have been a problem had I more control over hiring and firing. My hands were tied in that sense by upper management. Firing anyone followed western style processes (this was a multi-national company owned by Americans). Warnings had to first be given, up to a maximum of three. Employees could always seek outside arbitration if they felt they were being unjustly treated (we had a union). Layoffs required severence pay. That made for a difficult situation in terms of both culling worthless employees and having authority that really meant anything. We were a dying facility, too, because our work was moving to China. That prevented me from hiring a hand picked support staff whom I could truly rely on.

Changing working methods to follow best practices was not an easy issue, either. Even when a particular practice entered into the realm of being a safety issue. Education and training were given on several occasions but change was still not implemented. Those were instances where I would lose my poise and my anger would come out in full force. Here we were dealing with issues that endangered people and that didn't seem to be an awareness that carried a sufficient amount of weight within people's minds.

I truly avoid making generalizations but it did seem to me that the Thais on the whole, at least those whom I worked with, did not have a technical bent of mind. I've oftentimes witnessed results that were so scary and downright sad that they actually adopted a comical aspect.

I once gave one of my more enthusiastic and eager employees in the tool room a complete design of a tool to build. Each component had been thoroughly detailed so that nothing could be left to interpretation or the imagination. This happened a day or two before I took a two week leave back to the States. Upon my return the tool was set up in the press for a tryout. My employee came into the office to request my assistasnce as he was having problems. I took one look at the tool in the press and quickly realized that there were extra components that were not called out in my design.

I can only guess that he must not have understood the concept of the design and began consulting with his more knowledgable co-workers. And that they then came up with their own ideas of how it should work. It left me with the impression that they could be extremely dangerous if left on their own to think. I also came to the conclusion that it required an inordinate amount of time to work closely enough with them to the point of insuring that a job would be completed properly.

Perhaps I inherited a poor crew to work with. We had a contingent of imported Chinese tool makers, brought in specifically because they were considered to be more technically inclined than the Thais. And overall, after experience, I would have to agree with the assessment. It's still not an absolutely firm conclusion that I have drawn since I have to acknowledge the fact that, again, I walked into a situation where the existing employees just weren't cut out for the type of work they were engaged in. And, considering all other factors, I was more or less stuck with them.

That's about it for now. Hopefully there's someone out there with similar experience who could offer some insight or solutions. I need to get this worked out because my next step is to open up my own shop and I could never survive if this situation repeated itself.

I'll have more to add later. Both negative and positive.

Other than that I'd like to say that the input so far has been very good and it's much appreciated.

[PeaceBlondie]

As a relative newbie to Thailand, who managed employees in the USA for three years (usually 15 at a time), I've only taught school here. I think the style and level of education in Thailand doesn't prepare Thais for work in the same way that Western education prepares its students (imperfectly in both places).

The example Tippaporn gave, of the employee who made the tool differently than shown in the instructions, may indicate that the employee didn't have the right supervision on site (because Tipp was gone), and his coworkers didn't know the purpose of the tool.

At least in teaching, I err the most when I falsely assume that the students understand the background and the context. It was maddening to tell fairly smart 13 year olds to write a story, give them the plot, and then see that even the geniuses didn't have a clue. I pulled teeth until Kao-Fang or Summitra finally wrote one coherent sentence, so I could say, "Look, everybody, this is how you do it!"

You might manage your employees better if you know more about their background and abilities: education, work history, region of Thailand, socio-economic class, general and applied intelligence, diligence.

[meom]

The reason why he was brilliant at his job in Thailand was that he could work with his teams beyond those cross-cultural differences. And it's impossible to get that experience without exactly that - experiencing - it. It's how the issue is handled that makes the difference.

Good Point. I think there's good managers and "bad" managers and the main difference between the two has to do with people skills which seem to come natural to the good manager.

I'm not sure in which category I fall myself though; I'm managing a workforce of 200 plus from various nationalities and more often than not I get the urge to pull my hair.

My first thought of advice therefore would be to let your hair down so at least you got something to pull at.

One thing I've learned over the years is that it's better to solve problems than to waste much time looking for somebody to blame. As a manager you can expect a lot of"blame" and disgruntling from the lower ranks but it's not really a good thing to blame downwards. Shows a lack of management capabilities in my opinion.

Anyway give it your best shot and time will tell if you're any good at it.

[Tippaporn]

What, in other's minds, are considered to be specific Thai cultural differences that need to be taken into consideration? What are considered major drawbacks?

What are the biggest pluses about working with Thais? (There's nothing quite like a Thai company party, that's for dam sure! )

Edited February 9, 2006 by Tippaporn

[moonoi]

My experience so far has been quite positive. The team I work with is very hardworking and knowledgable, most have also university education abroad which has helped in there understanding of western cultural values. Thats not to take anything away from those who have not been educated abroad Its just something that has made my job easier I think.

It terms of how people work differantly here from Europe (can't comment on US as I've never worked there), I have to supervise them more than those employees in Europe. This can be annoying at times. That said they are much harder working than those I worked with in France and are prepared to make personal sacrifices to benefit the company, even when its not really necessary. I can't knock there dedication to the job!

My biggest gripe, and its not even much is that I wish that my staff would tell me there problems directly rather than speaking to the senior Thai who then tries to replan our projects using differant team members without telling me the reasons behind it. Sometimes its because one of the team doesn't want to do the work, which isn't really acceptable. But its a minor thing and I'm slowly getting people to be more reponsible for there work and I hope soon I won't have to supervise them so much

I'm not scared of loosing my job to a Thai, I have security here for at least another few years as it takes at least that long before anyone here has the depth of knowledge needed, but by then I hope I will have moved up in the organisation....and hopefully I will take some of the more talented people on my team with me or if they get promoted above me I they take me with them

On another note I do know that other teams that do not have any farang management at a middle level do have problems with high turnover and not hitting targets.....I also find that the Thais' lower down in those teams constantly complain about there Thai manager.......things like giving upper management unrealistic target dates with the staffing levels they have and projects already in progress and expecting them to stay in the office until the work is complete without any overtime pay or recognition and told to only log 8 hrs per day into the time management system even if they are in the office 12. I wonder if this is because these Thai managers are scared to say "No we can't do it in that time unless you give xxxxxx" to upper management? Is it a face thing or something else?

[Tippaporn]

Just curious Moo Noi, when you say that you need to provide more supervision to Thais than you would for Europeans. Is that due to lack of knowledge amongst the Thais, in which it's simply a matter of training, or something else? Do you see a difference in the amount of given direction required? Some people need only the basic concept of what you're after and they can figure the details out whereas some require every detail spelled out to the nth degree. Do you feel the latter is more prevalent here?

Part of my problem when I was managing was that the Thais didn't have proper knowledge. This forced me to spend an inordinate amount of time working "closely" with my guys to insure that things were done properly. Considering the amount of employees under me, and also the fact that we had a 2nd shift, I simply did not have the time to spend.

What field are you in, BTW?