Thai Muslims Protest At Danish Embassy

[sonthaya]

apologize. dog 412, does not no how to reply correctly. still working at it , my fault. my reply to los was to be "different opinions deteriorate our own". many here are trying understand what could possibly justify the violence the islamic "world" is accepting, as religious brotherhood. yes, the non-islamic world, now is seeing dogmatic islam as it really is. so, while the imam's attack the west, remember, india and china are alive and well, neither will bow to islam. neither should the west.

Don't worry about it, I have made the same or similar mistakes in the past, I was just "pulling your leg" and I totally agree with your posting, it's about time this crazy battle stops, how many people has to die before they come to their senses, this has no longer anything to do with the Mohammed cartoons, if it ever had, that was just the excuse for starting it.

[Johpa]

[

Hi

Following some earlier references to paedophilia which I did not understand I decided to do some research, sorry if this has been mentioned before but I have not read all of the 200+ posts.

Anyway a 'google' shed some light on the matter.

This prophet Mohammed was some guy, married between 16-22 times, according to all the scholars in his mid 50's he married Aisha aged 6 however being responsible gent he waited until she was 9 before consumating the marriage.

Not sure where Islam stands on re-incarnation, but Gary Glitter perhaps?

TBWG

There are plenty of valid issues on which to criticize militant Islamic values. But Islam is not the only culture that, at one time or another, betrothed young daughters to older men who would then marry said daughter upon the onset of menses. This type of arrangement is still common in India and in the Middle East. And I have seen girls as young as 14 being married off to older men even in Thailand. Sure not my cup of tea, but there is better ammunition in the Koran and the Sutras to attack the militants than claiming Allah the Prophet was a pedophile.

[zzap]

Well said, Johpa, there seems to be a state of mental confusion for some people when it comes to discussing Islam or 'Islamists'.

[mogoso]

[

Hi

Following some earlier references to paedophilia which I did not understand I decided to do some research, sorry if this has been mentioned before but I have not read all of the 200+ posts.

Anyway a 'google' shed some light on the matter.

This prophet Mohammed was some guy, married between 16-22 times, according to all the scholars in his mid 50's he married Aisha aged 6 however being responsible gent he waited until she was 9 before consumating the marriage.

Not sure where Islam stands on re-incarnation, but Gary Glitter perhaps?

TBWG

Islam skirts this issue. I believe their position is the girl produced no offspring therefore the marriage was invalid. I could be wrong here, but thats how my memory has it recorded.

IMHO not many 9 year old children are capable off producing offspring as their bodies haven't matured enough to reproduce. But Islam needed an out on this and took it, typical Islam.

[sonthaya]

There was a group of muslims on the TV today who were burning a Danish flag (someone, somewhere must be making a fortune selling muslims Danish flags). When it was set on fire one of them sort of slapped it into the air, it caught the wind and landed on his friends head! That's one for any outtake show

I would really have loved to see that, that serves him right, by the way the export of Danish flags has really increased lately.

Further I found out that the "pretty" Egyptian ambassador was transferred to Kenya.

[Phil Conners]

[..] Its not about the cartoons, ita abouit the destruction of the west and control of the world. Lots of oil money going into the backing of this. Saudia Arabia the center of the Islamic religion, stands to be the center of world power in a world Islamic. I sure want a bunch of Wahabbis telling me what to do.

Exactly!

If this is true the Danish Imans need jailing for all the trouble they caused.

If??? It's a known fact you can easily get confirmed. This is the truth.

So many people died during WW2 that many souls wanted to return to earth, hence the baby boom.

That's one way to see it. Most people see it as storm after the silence though...

[..]Speaking to Italian radio, Mr Berlusconi said the policy of the Italian government was one of respect for the Islamic religion. [..]

[..]

CARTOON ROW

[..]

31 Jan: Danish paper apologises

[..]

Berlusconi seems to be ready to bend over and take it like a man, anything to protect national interests.

According to a danish paper it was a misinterpretation, they didn't apologize, just explained their stance.

I think we finally need to take a stance in the west. If the muslims want to live following stone age rules, let them. In their own area. But don't expect to live a life in luxury (relative to what the live they would have in one of their muslim countries) and preach the hatret and stoneage lifestyle. They can pray to who they care behind their doors, but don't come and expect us all to live their religion with them.

Edited February 20, 2006 by madsere

[sonthaya]

I think we finally need to take a stance in the west. If the muslims want to live following stone age rules, let them. In their own area. But don't expect to live a life in luxury (relative to what the live they would have in one of their muslim countries) and preach the hatret and stoneage lifestyle. They can pray to who they care behind their doors, but don't come and expect us all to live their religion with them.

You are right, we need to take a stance, they expect to come and live in the west, but we have to abide by their rules.

A good exampel : last summer I was sitting at an outdoor restaurant at one of our more popular beach resorts here in the southern Denmark and enjoying a cold Carlsberg or two, just outside a few meters from my table was 3 muslim woman with the usual headdress etc. they spoke fluent danish and were so rude to all the teenage girls coming up from the beach in their bikinis to buy a ice cream or a cold soft drink, the 3 were shouting at the girls calling them whores and a lot of other nasty things.

After my second beer I had enough and went to have a word with the 3, I did at first try to politely explain that this was what to expect at a beach, and if they didn't like it they were in the wrong place, they wouldn't listen this was against islam.

My advice to them were go home and pack their things and go back where they came from, this is the way we live in Denmark, I didn't see them again

Edited February 20, 2006 by sonthaya

[britmaveric]

sonthaya - excellent!!! Behaviour like thats shant be tolerated - I'll buy you a pint next time I'm in Phuket!!

[sonthaya]

sonthaya - excellent!!! Behaviour like thats shant be tolerated - I'll buy you a pint next time I'm in Phuket!!

I'm sure looking forward to that, but I won't be there before late September.

[JemJem]

As an agnostic, 'internationalist' person, I want to ask Sonthaya something......I have read his above post. I want to ask him if he would also take a similar stand if he saw a group of right-wing skinheads threatening some foreigners in his country....would you, Sonthaya ? Please answer me honestly.

I sense some xenophobia/bigotry in some of your posts.....I hope I am wrong.

Cheers,

Jem

[zzap]

... they expect to come and live in the west, but we have to abide by their rules. ...

You mean you weren't served a beer, and there were no girls in bikinis on the beach?

[opothai]

given all the complaints about thailand, and the then general concesus that if you want to livre in thailand respeact and adhere to the thai culture, which imho is correct, the worse that happens is we complain on thai visa then it innevitably will be turned into a bit of a giggle and the usual TIT.

then why can the muslims not live in the west the same???

when this blows up in our face [and it will ] in my life time or not long after, when it turns into some kind of war what country are these people going to fight for

we will have the enemy within, this will include all civilsed countries bar china and certain parts of asia.

i can justify this statement by the war in afghanistan, muslim youths were recruited in the uk and europe along with america to fight against the multi cultural peace keeping forces, then when it got to hot in the kitchen they decided to come back to thier adopted countries, most of the ones from the uk were british citizens and should have been tried for treason [ which still carries the death penalty ] alas it all went quiete maybe we would have upset the traitors

imho we have let this situation go way to far, and looking at the fanatasism of the fundamentalists and the silence of the muslim leaders, thier is NO way back to a normal european or american society and culture without confrontation every step of the way.

sad really, but roll on the day i can live in los, at least you know where you stand [ sometimes].

ps iwas trying to think of major countries without muslim fundamentalists in action, apart from china , korea,and japan i'm finding it hard going

[Phil Conners]

JemJem, dumb question for obvious reason. Troll.

[mai_ow]

I sense some xenophobia/bigotry in some of your posts.....I hope I am wrong.

Cheers,

Jem

May be he isn't sure yet as he keeps switching on and off his avatar from his national flag to a Thai lady. As for the others, I have no doubt about it.

[JemJem]

JemJem, dumb question for obvious reason. Troll.

Dude, let the guy answer my question.

It is soooooooo easy to call someone a troll when you don't like what he wrote. I have been on this forum for a few years now and please see the number of my posts. Am I a troll ? LOL.

I am against all types of bigotry, whether the source is a Jew hater, a Muslim hater, a gay hater or an immigrant hater, etc.

Bigots and many right-wingers don't like me....but, oh well, I don't like them either.

I have sensed some bigotry in some of Sonthaya's posts and I am hoping for him to clear this out. He doesn't have to, of course

I won't easily get tired of taking on bigots.......period.

Cheers,

Jem

[opothai]

JemJem, dumb question for obvious reason. Troll.

Dude, let the guy answer my question.

It is soooooooo easy to call someone a troll when you don't like what he wrote. I have been on this forum for a few years now and please see the number of my posts. Am I a troll ? LOL.

I am against all types of bigotry, whether the source is a Jew hater, a Muslim hater, a gay hater or an immigrant hater, etc.

Bigots and many right-wingers don't like me....but, oh well, I don't like them either.

I have sensed some bigotry in some of Sonthaya's posts and I am hoping for him to clear this out. He doesn't have to, of course

I won't easily get tired of taking on bigots.......period.

Cheers,

Jem

i did not see in your bigotory list infidel haters and very vocal about it.

you mentioned right wing skin heads, come on jem jem it is not even in the same league my friend.

i hopr sonthaya won't mind me replying, but these are very lack lustre arguments against a real situation that is distastfull and as we have seen dangerous to many innocent people, you cannot in any way call any body a bigot imo for speaking out against the barbaric acts that these idiots are carrying out in the name of a religious believe.

[TAWP]

Jemjem>> Equal situation would be 'bibel-thumbers' shouting at the beach. And yes, many would ridicule them for that.

[JemJem]

i did not see in your bigotory list infidel haters and very vocal about it.

you mentioned right wing skin heads, come on jem jem it is not even in the same league my friend.

i hopr sonthaya won't mind me replying, but these are very lack lustre arguments against a real situation that is distastfull and as we have seen dangerous to many innocent people, you cannot in any way call any body a bigot imo for speaking out against the barbaric acts that these idiots are carrying out in the name of a religious believe.

I didn't know you wanted me to give you a comprehensive list I am also against those 'infidel haters'. Happy now ? Islamist ideology is totally against my humanism concept.

You and some others fail to understand what me and some other humanists in here are trying to argue. Some people here don't discriminate between Muslims and Islamists. The Muslims I know personally have nothing to do with the infidel-hating, US/Israel flag-burning, terror-applauding bigots that some of the bigots here on our forum seem to think of as representing Muslims.

Have I made my point clear now ?

As for my question to Sonthaya regarding skinheads, I don't think it is irrelevant at all. I just wanted to see if he would be adopting double standards or not.

Anyway, I have had enough of this argument for today. For those who still fail to get my point, I will just say 'Whatever'.

Cheers,

Jem

Edited February 20, 2006 by JemJem

[Guest endure]

given all the complaints about thailand, and the then general concesus that if you want to livre in thailand respeact and adhere to the thai culture, which imho is correct, the worse that happens is we complain on thai visa then it innevitably will be turned into a bit of a giggle and the usual TIT.

then why can the muslims not live in the west the same???

when this blows up in our face [and it will ] in my life time or not long after, when it turns into some kind of war what country are these people going to fight for

we will have the enemy within, this will include all civilsed countries bar china and certain parts of asia.

i can justify this statement by the war in afghanistan, muslim youths were recruited in the uk and europe along with america to fight against the multi cultural peace keeping forces, then when it got to hot in the kitchen they decided to come back to thier adopted countries, most of the ones from the uk were british citizens and should have been tried for treason [ which still carries the death penalty ]

The UK Government made an international commitment to the permanent abolition of the death penalty on 20 May 1999, when it ratified Protocol 6 to the European Convention on Human Rights. There is no longer any crime in the UK which has the death penalty as a sentence.

[opothai]

apologies endure

i did not realise that law had been abolished

[Guest endure]

Yes, lots of people don't realise. I do agree with you about the lack of prosecution of those who went to Afghanistan though. It all started when they refused to prosecute those who issued a fatwah against Salman Rushdie. They ought to have been in court facing incitement to murder charges.

[zzap]

JemJem, dumb question for obvious reason. Troll.

Dude, let the guy answer my question.

It is soooooooo easy to call someone a troll when you don't like what he wrote. I have been on this forum for a few years now and please see the number of my posts. Am I a troll ? LOL.

I am against all types of bigotry, whether the source is a Jew hater, a Muslim hater, a gay hater or an immigrant hater, etc.

Bigots and many right-wingers don't like me....but, oh well, I don't like them either.

I have sensed some bigotry in some of Sonthaya's posts and I am hoping for him to clear this out. He doesn't have to, of course

I won't easily get tired of taking on bigots.......period.

Cheers,

Jem

Yeah, it's hard to get any sense out of some posters now and then, without being called names...

Zzap, fellow humanist calling the lynch mob to reason.

[sonthaya]

JemJem, dumb question for obvious reason. Troll.

Dude, let the guy answer my question.

It is soooooooo easy to call someone a troll when you don't like what he wrote. I have been on this forum for a few years now and please see the number of my posts. Am I a troll ? LOL.

I am against all types of bigotry, whether the source is a Jew hater, a Muslim hater, a gay hater or an immigrant hater, etc.

Bigots and many right-wingers don't like me....but, oh well, I don't like them either.

I have sensed some bigotry in some of Sonthaya's posts and I am hoping for him to clear this out. He doesn't have to, of course

I won't easily get tired of taking on bigots.......period.

Cheers,

Jem

i did not see in your bigotory list infidel haters and very vocal about it.

you mentioned right wing skin heads, come on jem jem it is not even in the same league my friend.

i hopr sonthaya won't mind me replying, but these are very lack lustre arguments against a real situation that is distastfull and as we have seen dangerous to many innocent people, you cannot in any way call any body a bigot imo for speaking out against the barbaric acts that these idiots are carrying out in the name of a religious believe.

Thank you Opothai for replying on my behalf, you did very well I'm afraid I would have used words that doesn't belong here, they are just trying to stir things up.

I'm not religious in any way, and I'm not anti muslim, I worked for 30 years in muslim countries in the Middle East and found it only natural that I respected the people and their laws and religion.

Denmark is my country, I would expect that people from outside respect and accept our way of life.

I sense some xenophobia/bigotry in some of your posts.....I hope I am wrong.

Cheers,

Jem

May be he isn't sure yet as he keeps switching on and off his avatar from his national flag to a Thai lady. As for the others, I have no doubt about it.

Just for your information, I'll change my avatar as often as I feel like.

[zzap]

I respect your sentiments as a Danish citizen, Sontaya, but I don't think Jem Jem et al "are just trying to stir things up"

Respect works both ways, in forum discussions, too.

As you thank Opothai for representing you, may I ask:

Which "barbaric acts" have "these idiots", i.e. the Muslim women in your story, carried out , Sontaya?

It's easy to get wound up and find yourself in a place you don't want to be, isn't it?

Edited February 20, 2006 by zzap

[mai_ow]

I'm not religious in any way, and I'm not anti muslim, I worked for 30 years in muslim countries in the Middle East and found it only natural that I respected the people and their laws and religion.

Denmark is my country, I would expect that people from outside respect and accept our way of life.

I'm glad that from this statement you have clearly distanced yourself from the other posters' radical opinions, such the ones calling for the eradication of the religion of Islam and so on.

[britmaveric]

I'm not religious in any way, and I'm not anti muslim, I worked for 30 years in muslim countries in the Middle East and found it only natural that I respected the people and their laws and religion.

Denmark is my country, I would expect that people from outside respect and accept our way of life.

I'm glad that from this statement you have clearly distanced yourself from the other posters' radical opinions, such the ones calling for the eradication of the religion of Islam and so on.

Muslim religion isnt the issue its the intolerant followers who misuse it for their own warped agenda.

[Johpa]

As an agnostic, 'internationalist' person, I want to ask Sonthaya something......I have read his above post. I want to ask him if he would also take a similar stand if he saw a group of right-wing skinheads threatening some foreigners in his country....would you, Sonthaya ? Please answer me honestly.

I sense some xenophobia/bigotry in some of your posts.....I hope I am wrong.

Cheers,

Jem

I fail to see any bigotry in this particular example. If I were at a beach in a western country and anyone, Muslims or not, began calling my teenage daughter a whore simply for wearing a bikini at the beach then I would not have been nearly as polite as Sonthaya. And if they were clearly foreigners, I too would have told them in no uncertain terms that "this place is not for you." The bottom line is that in public areas Muslim sensibilies are neither my concern nor should they be the concern of others. There is plenty of public behavior that I do not appreciate and that I find uncomfortable, but I tolerate it.

And I would certainly make some caustic comments towards any skinhead making bigoted remarks.

[Johpa]

You and some others fail to understand what me and some other humanists in here are trying to argue. Some people here don't discriminate between Muslims and Islamists. The Muslims I know personally have nothing to do with the infidel-hating, US/Israel flag-burning, terror-applauding bigots that some of the bigots here on our forum seem to think of as representing Muslims.

The danger is that some western humanists fail to understand that those who are not infidel-hating etc are a small ignored minority in the Muslim world and that it is not that far of a stretch to associate Muslims with Islamists on the larger global scale. They also fail to understand that the majority of Muslims are not, in the near future, going to adopt the tolerant reformed version of Islam professed by the small educated elite living abroad.

Even this small educated Muslim elite is espousing a double standard. Recently they have been claiming that the cartoons published in the obscure Danish paper are indeed offensive and that we must be more sensitive, even if that means a restriction on the hard fought for freedom of the press. But they have no qualms about the virulent anti-Semitic cartoons published in the mainstream Arab newspapers that makes the Danish cartoons look like reading Tin-Tin. And this same small tolerant educated elite, and I too have Muslim friends like this, will bemoan the Crusades, an ill-conceived and failed adventure a millennium ago that they claim is still a current source of ill-will against the west. Yet I see no mention of the Jihadist crusade into Andalusia that is conveniently white washed in the history books of western children as a peaceful expansion so as not to engender cultural animosity. Similar Muslim crusades that eliminated the Jewish towns of North Africa, the Christian identity of Anatolia, and the nearly extinct realms of Zoroastrism in Iran are also similarly white washed in western history books to accommodate current realities.

Humanism and liberalism can only take you so far in the face of the current Muslim extremism. As Aldous Huxley once wrote in Brave New World: "Liberalism died with the first anthrax bomb." I would prefer that liberals begin to take a less humanist approach rather than risk the elimination of the liberal cause. There are far scarier people than George Bush out there.

[mogoso]

[quote name='JemJem' date='200

You and some others fail to understand what me and some other humanists in here are trying to argue. Some people here don't discriminate between Muslims and Islamists. The Muslims I know personally have nothing to do with the infidel-hating, US/Israel flag-burning, terror-applauding bigots that some of the bigots here on our forum seem to think of as representing Muslims.

Jem

How I look at Muslims is how I look at the spouse of an alcoholic. They know who are the bad guys, yet remain silent or pliant, much as the spouse is the enabler of the alcoholic. Without the tacit agreement of Muslims, there could not be the plauge of Islamists visited on civilization. They care naught for our civilization, but only for control of it or its destruction.

Islam believes it as a religion can do no wrong, murder is simply a tool allowed by the Quran, the beheading or bombing of small children is allowable. Death is the sentence for leaving the Islamic religion to be carried out by any Muslim. One chapter in the Quran is oft quoted by Islam, the womens chapter, where tolerance is preached. Unfortunately theres not much tolerance in the rest of the Quran toward non muslims

[sonthaya]

As an agnostic, 'internationalist' person, I want to ask Sonthaya something......I have read his above post. I want to ask him if he would also take a similar stand if he saw a group of right-wing skinheads threatening some foreigners in his country....would you, Sonthaya ? Please answer me honestly.

I sense some xenophobia/bigotry in some of your posts.....I hope I am wrong.

Cheers,

Jem

Jem I don't know where the skinheads comes into this, but yes I would probably react in some way, keep in mind I'm getting old with a heart problem, I wouldn't get into something with physical violence, I hope this answers your question.

Now I have one for you, I found bigotry in my dictionary but xenophobia isn't in there could you please translate, and then I hope we don't get anymore misunderstandings.

Cheers,

Sonthaya