Marriage Certificate For Schengen Visa

[DannyDakota]

I am starting to look at getting a Schengen visa for my wife to visit Germany, from UK, with me next year.

I am a British citizen and we married in Thailand.

We are currently in Thailand but will go to UK next year.

At some point we will have to go to Germany.

If possible, we would like to get the marriage certificate requirements sorted out in Thailand as my wife has heard that the Embassy in London can't/won't do any certification.

Does anyone know:

Does the original marriage certificate need to be certified/notarised/stamped by the Thai Government/Foreign Office?

If so, would the Thai Embassy do this in London?

Will an English translation of our marriage certificate do or does she need a German translation as well?

Additionally, does either translation need to have any official approval/certification other than being done by a recognised and approved translator?

And again if so, would the Thai Embassy do this in London?

Apologies if this has all been covered before, any links appreciated.

[Arkady]

As mentioned in the related thread, the Swiss Embassy requires not only that the English translation of the Thai marriage certificate should be notarised by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs but that the MoFA's notarisation should be further notarised by your embassy. When I applied to the German Embassy they didn't require the further notarisation but the translation had already been notarised by the MoFA, so I can't tell you if they required that or not. Some years ago the British Embassy didn't require the MoFA notarisation just certification by the translation agency but things may have changed there by now.

The good news is that once you have got all these irritating and costly stamps and signatures, it is done. I can't imagine any embassy will ask for more than a further notarised, notarised, certified translation but then they have full time staff with nothing much to do other than think up ways to torment visa applicants.

[7by7]

For a UK visa, and all other purposes in the UK, certification of the translation by the translation agency is sufficient.

For a Schengen visa application the translation also needs to be certified by the Thai authorities; MFA if in Thailand, Thai embassy if not.

The actual marriage certificate itself does not need to be further certified/legalised as it is already a legal document.

[DannyDakota]

Many thanks for the replies guys.

I will get the translation certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs here in Thailand.

Below is from the VFS website for Germany/Schengen visa

Marriage/birth certificate (and certified translation, if required) + copy

http://www.vfsglobal.com/GERMANY/UK/spouses-documentchecklist.html

I will try to find out if they need the translation in German too.

[Dancealot]

Many thanks for the replies guys.

I will get the translation certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs here in Thailand.

Below is from the VFS website for Germany/Schengen visa

Marriage/birth certificate (and certified translation, if required) + copy

http://www.vfsglobal...tchecklist.html

I will try to find out if they need the translation in German too.

At least YOU are doing your homework. You will be fine. You can let a translation agency take care of certifications at MFA in Bangkok. I did that and it went very smooth.

[beano2274]

I have asked about this at the German Embassy in Bangkok, and was told to apply in Bangkok no translation of a Thai Marriage Certificate is required. But for the UK, I would think in English or German only.

Edited October 28, 2012 by beano2274

[beano2274]

Are you applying using the EU Directive about Freedom of Movement.

[DannyDakota]

Are you applying using the EU Directive about Freedom of Movement.

Errrrr............yes? ............ no?

The plan is to apply next year in UK through VFS the German Embassy outsource partner.

But I want to get any necessary documents translated and certified over here in Thailand before we go to UK.

How would I do it and how is it different using the EU Directive about Freedom of Movement?

[beano2274]

Are you applying using the EU Directive about Freedom of Movement.

Errrrr............yes? ............ no?

The plan is to apply next year in UK through VFS the German Embassy outsource partner.

But I want to get any necessary documents translated and certified over here in Thailand before we go to UK.

How would I do it and how is it different using the EU Directive about Freedom of Movement?

No visa fee, just fee for administration, most of the documents are not required, i.e flight tickets, hotel bookings.

[DannyDakota]

No visa fee, just fee for administration, most of the documents are not required, i.e flight tickets, hotel bookings.

Cheers Beano, I just read your post about the email you are sending in the other thread.

Is this right:

Under this directive I could apply straight to the Embassy with an email similar to yours.

Then the Embassy would/should have to deal with it directly thus cutting out VFS and the fees.

I wouldn't need to show a translated marriage certificate or have a translation certified.

Also no need for flights, hotel bookings etc as you mentioned above.

[beano2274]

As my understanding is you still go through VFS, although I did read it is not necessary. You apply with the documents I stated and for you an English or German marriage certificate, Thai one is no good.

No need for hotel bookings, flight stuff as stated but you must prove you are traveling with her.

[DannyDakota]

You apply with the documents I stated and for you an English or German marriage certificate, Thai one is no good.

You mean I need to get married again ?? .........

I need my Thai marriage certificate translated because I am applying in the UK rather than Thailand, right?

[Dancealot]

I feel you need to think about registering your Thai marriage in UK. DannyDakota. When you are married in Thailand i think it' s obligated by the law you have to inform your country. ]

For instance in order to get a more permanent Schengen visa for your spouse it is required to register the marriage in Schengen.

In order to do this you will need both: a translation and approval stamp from MFA of your thai marriage certificate and your thai Wedding paper.

I am still assuming your wife is a Thai citizen...

You have to understand you are already married in Thailand but the marriage has to be registered in your country. So indeed Embassy' s in UK will not certify. You have to do all this in Thailand.

[7by7]

The above post is, I'm sorry to say, inaccurate.

A legal Thai marriage, i.e. one registered at an ampur, is recognised as a legal marriage in most, if not all, other states. It is certainly recognised as such in the UK and the Schengen states.

There is no need to register it again in the UK or a Schengen state or at any embassy. Indeed, you cannot register a marriage at a British embassy. What you can do is deposit a copy of your Thai marriage certificate via the embassy with the General Records Office in the UK. As there is a fee for doing this and it serves no useful purpose whatsoever most people don't bother.

For UK purposes all that is required is a translation of the Thai marriage certificate certified by the office who did the translation.

For Schengen visa purposes the translation also needs to be certified by the MFA in Bangkok or, if outside Thailand, your local Thai embassy.

[Dancealot]

The above post is, I'm sorry to say, inaccurate.

A legal Thai marriage, i.e. one registered at an ampur, is recognised as a legal marriage in most, if not all, other states. It is certainly recognised as such in the UK and the Schengen states.

There is no need to register it again in the UK or a Schengen state or at any embassy. Indeed, you cannot register a marriage at a British embassy. What you can do is deposit a copy of your Thai marriage certificate via the embassy with the General Records Office in the UK. As there is a fee for doing this and it serves no useful purpose whatsoever most people don't bother.

For UK purposes all that is required is a translation of the Thai marriage certificate certified by the office who did the translation.

For Schengen visa purposes the translation also needs to be certified by the MFA in Bangkok or, if outside Thailand, your local Thai embassy.

Respectfully, that's exactly what i tried to explain. More thoroughly i tried to emphasize there is a big difference between foreign recognition and registration.

Yours.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Dancealot

[tebee]

The purpose of depositing your marriage certificate with the registrar in the UK or having it legalized by the British embassy is to prove that not only do you have a valid marriage in Thailand but that the British government recognizes it as a legal marriage. It may be common knowledge that the UK recognizes Thai marriages but if you don't have the paperwork to prove it a third party government may reject your application or at the very least, delay it while they check with the British embassy over it's legality. With visas it a game of crossing the t's and dotting the I's and not giving them any excuse to reject it if they are having a bad day.

You can use either method to prove it but the first takes longer as you have to deposit it, then order a copy from the registrar of births, deaths and marriages. If you do go down this route don't get the Marriage certificate laminated as the British Embassy will not then accept it as it has been adulterated. Our translators "helpfully" laminated both copies of ours free of charge and without asking so this route was disbarred to us.

If you work or run a business in Germany you can apply as an EU citizen exercising treaty rights and the application is more or less free. If not you need to an ordinary application which cost more and you need more supporting paperwork.

Tom

Edited October 29, 2012 by tebee

[7by7]

Not depositing your Thai marriage certificate with the GRO does not mean that the British government does not recognise it.

For most countries, Thailand included, provided the marriage is legal in the country where it took place then it is recognised as a legal marriage by the British government.

This is nothing new; it has been the case since the Foreign Marriages Act 1899; i.e. for 113 years!

All European governments, and most if not all other governments, have similar legislation and recognise other countries' marriages. If any country does not recognise a Thai marriage then the fact that the British government does would make no difference.

Depositing marriage documents in the UK is what the British embassy in Bangkok has to say about depositing your marriage certificate with the GRO.

Depositing your marriage document is not a legal requirement......

You can simply deposit your Thai marriage certificate with the General Registry Office (England / Scotland / Northern Ireland) in the UK for safe-keeping at any time after the marriage has taken place......

Note it says "for safe keeping" not to have the marriage recognised or legalised or any other 'ised' in the UK!

The FCO, DirectGov and any other official government site will tell you the same.

Your remarks about visas for EEA nationals and their defined family members traveling to Germany, or any other EEA state other than that of which the EEA national is a citizen, is also incorrect; as explained to you in another topic.

Edited October 29, 2012 by 7by7

[DannyDakota]

.......having it legalized by the British embassy ......

The way I understood what the Embassy can do was pretty much how 7by7 described it.

How would you go about getting it legalized and what does the Embassy actually need and/or do?

Just to clarify, my wife is Thai and the marriage is registered at the Amphur.

[goatfarmer]

The above post is, I'm sorry to say, inaccurate.

A legal Thai marriage, i.e. one registered at an ampur, is recognised as a legal marriage in most, if not all, other states. It is certainly recognised as such in the UK and the Schengen states.

There is no need to register it again in the UK or a Schengen state or at any embassy. Indeed, you cannot register a marriage at a British embassy. What you can do is deposit a copy of your Thai marriage certificate via the embassy with the General Records Office in the UK. As there is a fee for doing this and it serves no useful purpose whatsoever most people don't bother.

For UK purposes all that is required is a translation of the Thai marriage certificate certified by the office who did the translation.

For Schengen visa purposes the translation also needs to be certified by the MFA in Bangkok or, if outside Thailand, your local Thai embassy.

Agreed. Lex locus regit actum (the law of the place controls the act). So long as the marriage is valid under Thai law it is valid under UK law. It needs no further action.

There is no requirement that a marriage certificate be submitted to prove relationship. The Handbook provides:

3.6. Supporting documents

In order to prove that the applicant has the right to be issued with an entry visa under the

Directive, he must establish that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. This is done by

presenting documents relevant for the purposes of the three questions referred to above, i.e.

proving that:

• there is an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights;

• the visa applicant is a family member (e.g. a marriage certificate, birth certificate,

proof of dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships …) and his

identity (passport); and

• the visa applicant accompanies or joins an EU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU

citizen already resides in the host Member State or a confirmation that the EU

citizen will travel to the host Member State).

It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have

the right of choice of the documentary evidence by which they wish to prove that they are

covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency …). Member States may,

however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the

existence of marriage), but should not refuse other means of proof.

I avoided the translation issue by getting a letter from the UK embassy stating that they have seen my marriage certificate and confirm that it is valid under UK law. My wife submits the letter with the marriage certificate. She has obtained four Schengen visas on the strength of it without being asked for a translation.

Edited October 30, 2012 by goatfarmer

[7by7]

.......having it legalized by the British embassy ......

The way I understood what the Embassy can do was pretty much how 7by7 described it.

How would you go about getting it legalized and what does the Embassy actually need and/or do?

Just to clarify, my wife is Thai and the marriage is registered at the Amphur.

In Thailand the only way to legalise a marriage is by registering it at an ampur.

You have done this, and so your marriage is legal in Thailand and because it is legal in Thailand it is also legal in the UK, the EU and most other countries.

The British embassy's only required involvement in a Thai marriage is notarising your affirmation of freedom to marry prior to the actual marriage.

Anything else, such as depositing a copy of your marriage certificate with the GRO, is entirely voluntary and, in my and many other's opinion, not worth the fee.

[thaisail]

As this thread is about translation of Marriage certificates, I would like some advice. I have already translated my Thai marriage certificate into English and it has been certified by the Thai MFA. This was done for the US embassy in 2006. Now that the French have finally recognized the divorce between me and my French wife, the French consulate is asking me to translate again into French this time. The French consulate has only about 10 translators in Thailand who are certified to translate from Thai to French. So, you can imagine the cost! I am doing all this to get the "Livrette Famillie" Family Book, which is the equivalent of a French marriage certificate and our daughter's name will be added to the book. Without that book, our marriage is not recognized by the French government. My daughter cannot get a French passport without that Family Book. Since the French took 7 years to recognize the American divorce of my French wife, I imagine that it will take at least one year to get the Family Book. My question is only, what can I do to get the Schengen visa from France for this summer so that my wife can go with me to France this year?

[thaisail]

Sorry but I forgot to mention that I am a dual citizen of both USA by birth and French by marriage.