Right, Lets Change Football........or Not.

[mjj]

Oh no! Next they will state that at least 2 refs in the pl must be of ethnic minorities every weekend.

[StevieH]

Whilst I agree that it's ugly and boring when the players surround the ref arguing, the refs cannot be beyond criticism on the pitch.

yes they can. they manage it in rugby and that's played by a bunch of over-privileged six-toed neanderthal tories.

the captain is the only member of a football team allowed to question decisions or even engage with the referee unless the referee engages with a non-captain player first. it's not difficult. referee should then be subject to proper review and criticism (if required) after the match.

one of the ugliest sights in football is some berk who is paid a hundred grand a week screaming at a linesman when he knows dam_n well the bloody ball went out off him and he knows it isn't his team's throw in. zero tolerance on abuse of officials, i'm all for it. if they make mistakes, then their governing body deals with them and demotes them.

[StevieH]

As we are on about refs at the moment why is they so few black refs or asian refs? i wonder if it is a racist thing and black refs in the past got called a lot of little nasties.

i would imagine it probably is, yes.

since we're at it, you could also ask why there are so few black managers in the game and also so very, very few black or other ethnicity administrators of the game. the FA is a very, very white organization.

[carmine]

Theres probably one main addition required and that is "limited' use of video technology.

Secondly there should be zero tolerance towards back chat in any form to the referee. Clubs should have it made clear this will result in a straight red so make your choice.

Putting both these in immediate effect would dramatically reduce the current problems Other than that i'm not in favour of too much dabbling.

[uptheos]

Secondly there should be zero tolerance towards back chat in any form to the referee. Clubs should have it made clear this will result in a straight red so make your choice.

Absolutely!

[smokie36]

I like the status quo but I'd ban all that long hair!

[uptheos]

I like the status quo but I'd ban all that long hair!

It seems to be a new thing

[mjj]

Whilst I agree that it's ugly and boring when the players surround the ref arguing, the refs cannot be beyond criticism on the pitch.

yes they can. they manage it in rugby and that's played by a bunch of over-privileged six-toed neanderthal tories.

the captain is the only member of a football team allowed to question decisions or even engage with the referee unless the referee engages with a non-captain player first. it's not difficult. referee should then be subject to proper review and criticism (if required) after the match.

one of the ugliest sights in football is some berk who is paid a hundred grand a week screaming at a linesman when he knows dam_n well the bloody ball went out off him and he knows it isn't his team's throw in. zero tolerance on abuse of officials, i'm all for it. if they make mistakes, then their governing body deals with them and demotes them.

I know refs can be beyond reproach, I just don't think they should. Total power corrupts and all that. If players need to be sanitizer then the refs need to be interviewed after the match. The present rules regarding not being able to criticise refs without getting a fine is ridiculous. All out in the open at a post match press conference is the best way forward.

I can't see what money the players earn has anything to do with behaviour. Football is about winning and passion regardless if you are Rooney or a Sunday league player.

I do agree that players lie too much on the pitch. It would be nice if once in a while if players didn't find the need to argue about corner, goal kicks and goals. Too much of footy today is about conning the ref, wouldn't it be nice if a goal was scored from an offside decision and then the player said, 'no goal I was offside'. Or when a goalkeeper knows a goal was scored and the ref thought it didn't go over the line, the gk says it did.

[StevieH]

I like the status quo but I'd ban all that long hair!

showing your age there smokie.

[smokie36]

I like the status quo but I'd ban all that long hair!

showing your age there smokie.

I'm ready to take to the 5 a side pitch Stevie. Any day from the 28th Dec to 2nd Jan mate!

Let's just say I had a misspent childhood.

[nev]

I like the status quo but I'd ban all that long hair!

Or just to show we are not one sided, ban players with no hair too, only short back and sides should be tolerated.

[smokie36]

I like the status quo but I'd ban all that long hair!

Or just to show we are not one sided, ban players with no hair too, only short back and sides should be tolerated.

Hey Alfredo....you just got banned from our 5 a side mate!

I'd invite carmine up but he'd only get lost wandering around Loi Kroh....

[uptheos]

Or when a goalkeeper knows a goal was scored and the ref thought it didn't go over the line, the gk says it did.

But that just wouldn't be cricket old chap.

[mrbojangles]

I debate regularly rijit, I said I don't want to argue because sometimes I think your posts are aggressive. To me, that ain't debating, it's arguing. It's a thin line.

Anyway, an example of a major decision could be when a penalty is given that is dubious like a player diving and conning the ref. How many times do you see the players surrounding the ref and arguing but if you are watching on tv, they have already replayed it several times.

What they could do is have a panel of 3 ref's sitting in front of a monitor, they all have button each, and if the deem a player to be cheating they press there buzzer, if all 3 do together that player receives a orange card, if they get another one in the game they are off and a 5 match ban.

Maybe more riveting watching the refs waiting to press the buzzer than the actual game

Like Premier League's got talent nev? X X X

You two have been in the boonies too long. Have another night out at Tawang Deng (sp). It'll do you the world of good

[carmine]

Or when a goalkeeper knows a goal was scored and the ref thought it didn't go over the line, the gk says it did.

But that just wouldn't be cricket old chap.

If its the dreadful refereeing at the bridge the other season that MJJ is referring to, that keith from the chelsea thread doesn't give a toss about, i can confirm that Gomes repeatedly told the ref that the ball hadn't crossed the line but he still gave a goal. And if we had limited video technology he would not have ruled our second goal offside either.

[smokie36]

Can those chairs be electric nev?.....and if they get too many decisions wrong then they pay the price....

[Chicog]

The use of technology not just Video hasn't harmed the other sports that have introduced it. In fact, quite the opposite.

But it's generally limited to certain natural breaks in play. "Was the serve in?" in Tennis, "Was it a try?" in Rugby, Was it a wicket?" in Cricket. Even Goalline technology threatens the flow of the game if misused.

Look at last nights - let me count - 8th goal in the Reading-Arsenal tie? The defender clearly tried to stop the ball with his hand, it was not clear from the cameras if it crossed the line, the asst. ref didn't give it and the ref gave Jenkinson his first ever Arsenal goal for the follow up shot.

Now had Jenkinson not scored, the ref looked as is he was about to blow up for a pen anyway, but he didn't. Nor did he red card the Reading defender who played goalkeeper.

Had Jenkinson missed, and the ref awarded a penalty, that's all well and good. But what about the obvious sending off?

It didn't happen, and had it done so, the game probably would have finished 10-5.

If you start squeezing the life out of the game to please the perfectionists, you might as well get a bunch of robots playing it, so that the laws are never broken. They are the same whingers that watch Golf tournaments on Telly and phone up to say they spotted a ball moving 0.005mm as it was being addressed or some such irrelevant tosh.

I hate it when we get crap decisions against us, but it happens to every team, not some more than others, and it's part of the game.

I wasn't sure who's "Friend" the referee was last night, but at the end of it there were no complaints from either manager, which is how it should be.

Sanitise it and you end up making it boring.

The laws are fine, I'd just like to see them enforced a bit more. Dissent, Abuse, Timewasting in particular. A cautionable offence is cautionable in the 1st minute of the game, so get the ****ing cards out.

[Chicog]

How many times do you see the players surrounding the ref and arguing but if you are watching on tv, they have already replayed it several times.

the referee has it in his power to deal with that though. any player encroaches and shouts in my face who is not the designated captain, automatic yellow card. do it again, second yellow, off you go and a two-match ban. piece of piss to implement that one. think it needs better leadership from the FA though - their 'respect agenda' was a joke.

Whilst I agree that it's ugly and boring when the players surround the ref arguing, the refs cannot be beyond criticism on the pitch.

Same as Rugby, there can be discussion, but the referee's decision is final. If Refs are consistently making mistakes, they will lose out.

The referee's authority should be absolute. The players should play within the laws and accept the punishment if they flout them.

[rijit]

I debate regularly rijit, I said I don't want to argue because sometimes I think your posts are aggressive. To me, that ain't debating, it's arguing. It's a thin line.

Fair enough, but dont try to act whiter than white , when you open posts with comments like 'speed reading isn't your specialty' which in its context I took not only, to be not just argumentative, but borderline personally offensive.

[Chicog]

Re the OP comment about Ivanovich, the existing rules direct a referee to give a card in the event of an intentional only foul. Clattenburg must have thought he meant to trip up the ManU forward. I also think there was sufficient doubt that Ivanovich meant to trip him up and players are getting cute at deliberately running accross an opponent's line so that a trip is inevitable. Should have been a free kick only IMO.

[Ex FA qualified ref - minor stuff only!]

It was only a Free Kick. However, it also denied "a clear goalscoring opportunity".

All the more reason to avoid doing it. Ivanovich was trying to be cute, the ref saw through it. Get over it.

[StevieH]

Same as Rugby, there can be discussion, but the referee's decision is final. If Refs are consistently making mistakes, they will lose out.

read a good thing on twitter earlier about the rugby. along the lines of yes, rugby commentators are right about the respect for referees in their game. on the other hand, can't remember any footballers hiding blood capsules in their mouths.

[mrbojangles]

The laws are fine,

I don't think they are though and many others don't, that's why we have these debates.

The one thing I do want to make clear though, is that I don't want video to be used all the time and to take over the human element. The human element coupled with the use Technology and video can compliment each other. It doesn't have to be one or the other. IMO of course

[mrbojangles]

Same as Rugby, there can be discussion, but the referee's decision is final. If Refs are consistently making mistakes, they will lose out.

read a good thing on twitter earlier about the rugby. along the lines of yes, rugby commentators are right about the respect for referees in their game. on the other hand, can't remember any footballers hiding blood capsules in their mouths.

If a footballer does try it, you can guarantee it will be Nani who tries it first

[rijit]

One piece of kit that i think the ref;s should have, and i've been thinking it for the last 20 years, is some sort of digital tape measure, leaving refs 2 pace 10 yards at free kics in this day and age is a joke and watching them constantly pushing players bac and them pushing 4 wards dont exactly do the games flow any favors

[StevieH]

One piece of kit that i think the ref;s should have, and i've been thinking it for the last 20 years, is some sort of digital tape measure, leaving refs 2 pace 10 yards at free kics in this day and age is a joke and watching them constantly pushing players bac and them pushing 4 wards dont exactly do the games flow any favors

it's part of their training and qualifications if i remember rightly - they have to mark out ten yards on foot like 20 times in a row or something. it becomes second nature to them. that's probably among the least of the worries we have about referees today by the way.

[sumrit]

The one thing I do want to make clear though, is that I don't want video to be used all the time and to take over the human element. The human element coupled with the use Technology and video can compliment each other. It doesn't have to be one or the other. IMO of course

Personally I'm against using any video that would stop the flow of the game while it's being assessed or where an accurate outcome can't be guaranteed.

And how long would the game be stopped for? Would there be a maximum time?

Even when replays are looked over and over again the TV pundits still don't always agree yet you are suggesting the game could be stopped for a 'very short time' while a particular incident is looked at and expect those people to make an accurate judgement. What if they can't make a 'quick' decision. Do you stop the game only for the 'panel' to say "I don't know". What does the referee do then? That would really keep everybody happy wouldn't it.

What if the panel, pressurized into making a decision because they don't want to say "I don't know", make a decision, only for the TV 'experts' to prove that decision was wrong because they've got different camera angles and more time to study the video footage. That would really give the decision to use video replays, a credible image wouldn't it.

There is a place for looking a the video footage, but after the game, not during it .

While that wouldn't cover all incidents it would for the majority. Most contentious issues revolve around whether a player dived or cheated, whether there was contact in a tackle, and whether that contact actually made it a foul or did the player still 'go down too easily' ETC, ETC, ETC.

Knowing that they would (probably) get caught by the video evidence would stop almost all 'simulation' immediately. For example would Suarez continue to dive, would Baloteli have tried to break the Spurs players leg last year and would Young have gone down too easily to get penalties (twice) last year if they knew they would get caught, fined and banned for a long time? I doubt it. Most simulation would stop.

That, along with putting the officials microphone conversations (along with the players comments of course) over the PA system would solve far more than stopping a game to make a rushed decision on some (possibly limited) video footage...........in my humble opinion of course.

Edited October 31, 2012 by sumrit

[Chicog]

Same as Rugby, there can be discussion, but the referee's decision is final. If Refs are consistently making mistakes, they will lose out.

read a good thing on twitter earlier about the rugby. along the lines of yes, rugby commentators are right about the respect for referees in their game. on the other hand, can't remember any footballers hiding blood capsules in their mouths.

If you look at what "bloodgate" was - cheating to make a substitution, I count it no different to a cheating footballer who feigns serious injury to get an opponent sent off and give his team an advantage.

And look at the sanctions that were imposed: 4 months for the player, 3 years for the directory of rugby, 2 years for the Physio and a 260K fine for the club (and this is Rugby remember, that's a huge amount in that sport). The Medic who sliced his lip to make it look like a genuine injury was suspended by the GMC but I think got off because she admitted everything and played the "I had a breast cancer operation" card.

Either way, it was a comprehensive punishment and it had the desired effect.

I'm with sumrit in that post match review by a panel of experts would identify contentious moments where sanctions are required - and that includes with poor refereeing. I am fed up with this "because the ref had already dealt with it" bullsh*t. If the decision was wrong,look at it again and adjust the sanction if required.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Chicog

[StevieH]

you're a rugby fan then chicog?

bloodgate was way, way more sinister and pre-planned than anything i've ever seen on a football pitch. i think there was a goalkeeper in spain or italy several years ago who hid a razor blade in his shinpad and slashed himself open to get an opponent sent off - that's in a completely different world to any gamesmanship and daft diving that goes on in football.

[alfieconn]

One piece of kit that i think the ref;s should have, and i've been thinking it for the last 20 years, is some sort of digital tape measure, leaving refs 2 pace 10 yards at free kics in this day and age is a joke and watching them constantly pushing players bac and them pushing 4 wards dont exactly do the games flow any favors

Some people think about sex, some fast cars, some winning the lottery but Rij thinks about digital tap measures

[rijit]

One piece of kit that i think the ref;s should have, and i've been thinking it for the last 20 years, is some sort of digital tape measure, leaving refs 2 pace 10 yards at free kics in this day and age is a joke and watching them constantly pushing players bac and them pushing 4 wards dont exactly do the games flow any favors

it's part of their training and qualifications if i remember rightly - they have to mark out ten yards on foot like 20 times in a row or something. it becomes second nature to them. that's probably among the least of the worries we have about referees today by the way.

Yeah, agreed it aint a big issue but but small elements do make up the whole.and this is about reinforcing the ref's decision making process, and enabling consistency and you watch they arnt consistent, the variance 2 a degree seems to depend where on the pitch the kicks given, but there we go when the refs counting metres I see a short fall and the ramifications, whilst alfie's busy thinking sex?, but everyone to their own, LOL!!!,

Edited October 31, 2012 by rijit