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:o:D

Democrats chase ghosts in S’pore the NATION 14.2.2006

The paper company set up by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 1999, Ample Rich Investments Ltd, has not only been involved in questionable stock transactions, its address in Singapore is also a source of mystery.

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and fellow MP Sirichoke Sopha flew to Singapore over the weekend to visit the address of Ample Rich. They suspected that there could be two firms named Ample Rich, one incorporated in the British Virgin Islands, a tax haven, and another described in Thai documents as having an “English” identity.

However, the opposition MPs could find no sign of either Ample Rich at their declared Singapore addresses.

At a news conference yesterday, Sirichoke displayed pictures of the building supposed to house Ample Rich at 185A Goldhill Centre at 51 Thomson Road in Singapore.

The address is occupied by a firm called Kimberly Global and its staff knew nothing about Ample Rich, he said.

“The Commerce Ministry must investigate why Ample Rich has failed to use a real address,” the Democrat executive committee member said.

“Now it is clear that 185A Goldhill Centre is not the address of Ample Rich. Let me ask the prime minister: What have you been doing? Does this company really exist? Or it is just an address submitted to the Commerce Ministry?

“This is something the Commerce Ministry must investigate because Ample Rich might not exist in Singapore. Is this another attempt to conceal the stocks [of Shin Corp]?”

On January 23, Karnjanapha Honghern, a secretary of the premier’s wife Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra, submitted a 246-2 form to the Securities and Exchange Commission on behalf of Ample Rich informing the watchdog of the company’s intention to sell 329.2 million shares (about 10 per cent) of Shin Corp.

She gave Ample Rich’s address as 185A Goldhill Centre, 51 Thomson Road, Singapore 307629. (The Nation’s correspondent in Singapore also failed to find any sign of Ample Rich at this address.)

At the same time Karnjanapha was acting on behalf of Ample Rich she notified authorities that two of the premier’s children would acquire 329.2 million shares of Shin Corp at Bt1 apiece. On that same day, Thaksin’s son Panthongtae and daughter Pinthongta sold the Shin shares for Bt49.25 apiece to Temasek Holdings as part of the Singaporean firm’s Bt73-billion takeover of the conglomerate.

The transactions shocked Thailand and sparked an investigation of Ample Rich by the opposition Democrats.

Ample Rich, owned by Panthongtae and Pinthongta, held 10 per cent of the shares of Shin Corp on the foreign board of the Stock Exchange of Thailand. The Shinawatra and Damapong families held a combined 39 per cent of Shin’s shares on the main board. Together, they held about 1.4 billion shares, or almost 50 per cent of Shin Corp before the sell-off.

Korbsak Sabhavasu, a former Democrat MP, has found evidence that suggests there were two firms named Ample Rich, one incorporated in the British Virgin Islands and another described as having an “English” identity in Thai documents.

He displays a document on his website, www.korbsak.com, showing that as of April 30, 2001, the Ample Rich incorporated in the British Virgin Islands held 22.92 million shares of Shin Corp (before a share split). Its address is listed as 57 Ubi Avenue 1 #07-03, Singapore 408936.

The Ample Rich referred to as “English” in a Thai document held 10 million Shin shares (before the share split) and was located at 185A Goldhill Centre, 51 Thomson Road, Singapore 307629.

The firm incorporated in the British Virgin Islands reduced its stake by 10 million shares, or 100 million after the share split. Ample Rich (“English”) traded the Shin stock for a profit then disappeared without a trace.

On April 23 last year, the firm incorporated in the British Virgin Islands reported that it held 229.2 million Shin shares, Korbsak said.

But as of August 26, 2005, UBS AG, Singapore Branch held 329.2 million Shin shares in an account for Ample Rich.

The amount is equal to what Thaksin moved from the main board to the foreign board in 1999.

Korbsak asked whether Ample Rich had been involved in insider trading because it bought 100 million Shin shares to rebuild its portfolio to the original 329.2 million shares about five months before the Temasek deal.

However, Suvarn Valaisathien, the lawyer representing the Shinawatra family, had insisted there was only one Ample Rich, incorporated in the British Virgin Islands, and that this company never traded its Shin stocks.

Thaksin, in his weekly radio address on Saturday, also denied he had set up twin Ample Riches. There is only one and it was incorporated in the British Virgin Islands, he insisted.

He transferred ownership of Ample Rich to Panthongtae in 2000 and his son has relied on professional fund managers to look after the company since them, Thaksin said.

Sirichoke said he also visited the second address given for Ample Rich. But no one in the neighbourhood of 57 Ubi Avenue 1 had heard of the firm, but because it was a holiday he could not verify whether or not an Ample Rich was located there.

“If I have time I’ll go to Singapore again to conduct another investigation,” he said.

Abhisit had been invited to Singapore to speak to the media there about the city-state’s image in Thailand following Temasek’s takeover of Shin Corp.

He also met Lee Hsien Yang, CEO of Singapore Telecommunications, which holds a 20-per-cent stake in Shin subsidiary Advanced Info Service.

:D:D

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And no, some crimes make you an animal. There's just drug dealing (and I don't include pharmacies in that category) and murder on that list for me. Apparently it's not on your list.

Fascinating point of view.

So, according to your logic drug dealers are not humans, and therefore summarily executing them is not against the law? I think you are there a bit in conflict with present scientific knowledge in what makes a human being.

I am aware that last until the mid 20th century there were some scientists of the eugenic school that did not attach the label "human" to certain persons, especially blacks (and chinese barely qualified), but fortunately those views have generally been discredited. Never knew that somewhat similar views are still held by obviously educated people.

I believe that we can, according to modern science, establish that drug dealers are humans.

Therefore, according to Thai law, they should enjoy the benefit of due process. Basically, it may satisfy your lower instincts, but neverthess, your apologising summarily executing those humans constitutes apologising murder. That, according to your logic, is one of the two crimes that excludes a person from the human race.

I must therefore deduct that you also do not belong to neither the christian nor the buddhist religion as both condemn the taking of life.

Furthermore, i would be interested how you may see the difference between what you term as "drugs", and alcohol. Other that presently alcohol is legal in Thailand and other substances are not. Culturally though certain substances now termed as "drugs" have only very recently been made illegal, mainly due to American political pressures.

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And no, some crimes make you an animal. There's just drug dealing (and I don't include pharmacies in that category) and murder on that list for me. Apparently it's not on your list.

Fascinating point of view.

(snip)

Furthermore, i would be interested how you may see the difference between what you term as "drugs", and alcohol. Other that presently alcohol is legal in Thailand and other substances are not. Culturally though certain substances now termed as "drugs" have only very recently been made illegal, mainly due to American political pressures.

Thanks.

And I don't have a hard and fast rule defining any narcotics. The closest thing I have to a rule is that whatever it is, it better not negatively affect my way of life, mine or my families personal space, otherwise I support whatever method is necessary to get rid of it and I reserve the right to define any offending parties in any way I see fit.

:o

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:o:D

Democrats chase ghosts in S’pore

More like...Democrats on holiday in Singapore and hopefully soon in the British Virgin Islands.

A big som nam nar though if we lose a team of Democrats on one of those shaky Cape Air or Caribbean Star flights, as guess what, you don't actually have to have a bricks and mortar office on the ground to have an offshore company there. The only reason you'd actually have to be on the ground there is if you actually want to go ON VACATION there.

:D

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:D:D

Democrats chase ghosts in S’pore the NATION 14.2.2006

The paper company set up by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 1999, Ample Rich Investments Ltd, has not only been involved in questionable stock transactions, its address in Singapore is also a source of mystery.

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and fellow MP Sirichoke Sopha flew to Singapore over the weekend to visit the address of Ample Rich. They suspected that there could be two firms named Ample Rich, one incorporated in the British Virgin Islands, a tax haven, and another described in Thai documents as having an “English” identity.

However, the opposition MPs could find no sign of either Ample Rich at their declared Singapore addresses.

At a news conference yesterday, Sirichoke displayed pictures of the building supposed to house Ample Rich at 185A Goldhill Centre at 51 Thomson Road in Singapore.

The address is occupied by a firm called Kimberly Global and its staff knew nothing about Ample Rich, he said.

“The Commerce Ministry must investigate why Ample Rich has failed to use a real address,” the Democrat executive committee member said.

“Now it is clear that 185A Goldhill Centre is not the address of Ample Rich. Let me ask the prime minister: What have you been doing? Does this company really exist? Or it is just an address submitted to the Commerce Ministry?

“This is something the Commerce Ministry must investigate because Ample Rich might not exist in Singapore. Is this another attempt to conceal the stocks [of Shin Corp]?”

On January 23, Karnjanapha Honghern, a secretary of the premier’s wife Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra, submitted a 246-2 form to the Securities and Exchange Commission on behalf of Ample Rich informing the watchdog of the company’s intention to sell 329.2 million shares (about 10 per cent) of Shin Corp.

She gave Ample Rich’s address as 185A Goldhill Centre, 51 Thomson Road, Singapore 307629. (The Nation’s correspondent in Singapore also failed to find any sign of Ample Rich at this address.)

:D:D

Probably just one more "honest mistake" just like when they "ticked the wrong checkbox".

It's her hairdresser's address? :o

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Thanks.

And I don't have a hard and fast rule defining any narcotics. The closest thing I have to a rule is that whatever it is, it better not negatively affect my way of life, mine or my families personal space, otherwise I support whatever method is necessary to get rid of it and I reserve the right to define any offending parties in any way I see fit.

:o

If I may borrow your "rule" just for a minute.

Corrupt politicians are the scourge of Thailand. Whatever they do, they negatively affect my way of life by misusing my tax money and abusing their power, therefore, I support whatever method is necessary to get rid of [corrupt politicians] and I reserve the right to define any offending parties in any way I see fit. To set an example for others, we should start at the top, "finishing off" Thaksin in the most expeditious way possible. We should skip a proper trial, since that would inconveniently necessitate "a thousand page report wrapped in a hundred rolls of red tape". Heck, the 2001 assets cocealment trial is how he managed to get off the hook in the first place!

Edited by tettyan
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Of course, I could care less whatever rules you wish to borrow. That's the beauty of my rules. What you do is your business. What I do is mine.

:o

Logical conclusion of the world according to Heng: if we then have a conflict of interest, we declare each other as not human and therefore claim the right to gun it out?

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Of course, I could care less whatever rules you wish to borrow. That's the beauty of my rules. What you do is your business. What I do is mine.

:o

Logical conclusion of the world according to Heng: if we then have a conflict of interest, we declare each other as not human and therefore claim the right to gun it out?

That's actually just ColPyat's "logical" conclusion of Heng theory. Thank you for your interest though.

:D

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Disclosure rules ''probably'' breached

Disclosure violations were ''likely to have been committed'' in transactions involving offshore company Ample Rich Investments and shares of telecom giant Shin Corp, the secretary-general of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Thirachai Phuvanatnaranubala, said yesterday.

The SEC would consider appropriate fines against Panthongtae and Pinthongta Shinawatra, he said.

forget the fines... they are meaningless to these billionaires.. it's JAIL! for them.... 2 years in JAIL! just at the law prescribes... JAIL! :o

Securities regulators expected to finalise their inquiry next month into possible wrongdoing by the prime minister's son and elder daughter.

Mr Thirachai yesterday briefed SEC board members on the investigation.

Mr Thirachai said the SEC had received evidence certified by a notary public from the Shinawatra siblings that Mr Panthongtae had taken over Ample Rich from his father, Mr Thaksin.

Further evidence was also submitted regarding Ms Pinthongta's shareholding in Ample Rich. The SEC had earlier directed both Mr Panthongtae and Ms Pinthongta to disclose the extent of their past investments in Ample Rich.

''Based on the evidence, there is a likelihood that a disclosure violation has been committed,'' said Mr Thirachai.

The SEC board had also directed a complete investigation into other allegations regarding Ample Rich, including whether a second, UK-registered Ample Rich had also been involved in Shin transactions overseas.

Authorities are also investigating whether alleged transactions involving brokerage firm Vickers Ballas, UBS AG Bank and Ample Rich had violated disclosure and tender offer rules.

''We expect that the SEC can finalise all issues by next week,'' he said.

SEC officials earlier this month said neither Mr Panthongtae nor Ms Pinthongta had ever disclosed their investments in Ample Rich over the past six years.

Korn Chatikavanij, deputy secretary-general of the Democrat party, yesterday accused Mr Thaksin of intentionally concealing shares in Ample Rich.

He said after Mr Thaksin had been cleared in his first share concealment case in 2001, he declared that he had his servants and chauffeur hold shares on his behalf but he failed to declare the proxy holding of Ample Rich shares by Mr Panthongtae.

Mr Thaksin claimed he had transferred Ample Rich to Mr Panthongtae on Dec 1, 2000.

Mr Korn said the prime minister could not attribute the failed declaration of the Ample Rich transfer to another ''honest mistake'' of his because he had managed to declare his shareholdings under other people's names.

''Ample Rich shares still belonged to the prime minister and were not transferred to Mr Panthongtae.

''So that was not reported to the SEC and the prime minister never had any evidence to clearly prove the share transfer.

''As the transfer never happened and was not reported to the SEC, that means share concealment,'' he said.

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DPM Chidchai insisted that the transactions involving Ample Rich Investments are not considered violation of Anti-Money Laundering laws.

Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Minister Chidchai Wannasatit (ชิดชัย วรรณสถิตย์) insisted that the transactions involving Ample Rich Investments are not in violation of Anti-Money laundering laws.

Minister Chidchai said that many parties have called on the Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) to seize assets of Ample Rich Investments and related people. However, he said that the AMLO can act only when it is proven that the firm violated anti-money laundering laws.

Meanwhile, Acting secretary-general of AMLO, Colonel Yuthaboon Dissamarn (ยุทธบูลย์ ดิสสะมาน) said that the case cannot be considered as violation of the laws, adding that the Office has not been contacted by the Securities and Exchange Commission, asking for its investigation. He said that if the SEC contacts the office, the AMLO will have to consider what issues the SEC wants its help.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 16 Febuary 2006

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If Pin and Pan are sentenced to, and serve, jail sentences of two years each, that would be the best way to punish the Prime Minister. You can't hit billionaires in the pocket very effectively, but for a Chinese-Thai family, putting their children behind bars would hurt the parents' hearts and cause them to lose face. Not that I wish it would happen, nor that any of this ever happened, but rich elites are usually building assets to pass to their heirs. Therefore, putting Pin and Pan in jail would be appropriate, and might cause them to become felons who can never hold an office of trust.

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Of course, I could care less whatever rules you wish to borrow. That's the beauty of my rules. What you do is your business. What I do is mine.

:o

I believe the phrase that you meant to use is; " I couldn't care less...."

Otherwise it doesn't appear to make sense. Ahhh... I get it. That's what you're trying to acheive in most of your posts.

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Of course, I could care less whatever rules you wish to borrow. That's the beauty of my rules. What you do is your business. What I do is mine.

:D

I believe the phrase that you meant to use is; " I couldn't care less...."

Otherwise it doesn't appear to make sense. Ahhh... I get it. That's what you're trying to acheive in most of your posts.

It wasn't a phrase. I was expressing my current state of indifference and how there are several more notches on the indifference scale.

:o

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Of course, I could care less whatever rules you wish to borrow. That's the beauty of my rules. What you do is your business. What I do is mine.

:D

I believe the phrase that you meant to use is; " I couldn't care less...."

Otherwise it doesn't appear to make sense. Ahhh... I get it. That's what you're trying to acheive in most of your posts.

It wasn't a phrase. I was expressing my current state of indifference and how there are several more notches on the indifference scale.

:D

Does this mean we've now identified the famous Hub of Indifference ? :o

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Heng's use of "I could care less" is an Americanism he may have picked up in Texas. Of course it's logically false, but it's meant tongue in cheek, or as "I couldn't care so much less that I couldn't even care if I didn't care."

Not nearly as common as "irregardless," regardless of whether you could care less. :D

While Heng's indifference may be feigned, he's Thai, and Thais tend to be indifferent toward things they can't personally change. What's a Thai citizen to do, besides join the protests and vote differently next time? Thaksin isn't calling any of us for our advice. Even Heng himself hasn't gotten that many calls from Thaksin lately. :o

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somebody suggested I read this thread. so, I did..

my 2 cents?

offshore companies are legit. if they weren't, people would make laws to change them.

of course, if laws were broken intentionally, then, some form of punishment should be given in the way of a fine and/or imprisonment.

on the other hand, if the law was untentionally broken, then, some leniency would be appropriate.

frankly, most of the rich people I know hire tax accountants, and lawyers to take care of their finances. especially when they are really wealthy. there are just too many laws to deal with for a regular person to comprehend, or for that matter, to come up with an effective financial plan.

has anyone ever considered that maybe the people who thaksin hired to take care of his finances are the ones to blame for these current mishaps?

who would take the blame in that sort of scenario?

...wouldn't it be the tax accountant? or the lawyers?

on the subject of drug dealers..

it seems to me that it is a well known fact that dealing in drugs carries the death penalty here in thailand. wouldn't it be logical for a drug dealer to try to resist arrest when confronted by the police knowing that he is for certain going to be executed?

.. my guess is that many did, and as a result forced the police to take them down.

I don't expect a police officer to risk his life for someone who is a drug dealer. if the drug dealer pulled out a gun, I would expect the police officer to shoot him dead. wouldn't you?

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on the subject of drug dealers..

it seems to me that it is a well known fact that dealing in drugs carries the death penalty here in thailand. wouldn't it be logical for a drug dealer to try to resist arrest when confronted by the police knowing that he is for certain going to be executed?

.. my guess is that many did, and as a result forced the police to take them down.

I don't expect a police officer to risk his life for someone who is a drug dealer. if the drug dealer pulled out a gun, I would expect the police officer to shoot him dead. wouldn't you?

Stop guessing, please.

Those people were summarily executed by deathsquads consisting mainly of border policemen and members of right wing militias such as village scouts and krating daeng. Others were murdered by police officers in the trade themselves who that way killed witnesses.No resisting arrest.

My wife had the misfortune to witness one of those blacklist murders, in which a police officer abut ten meters away from her blew the brains out of one unarmed man.

another thread you should please read: "Thaksin Boasts Tremendous Successes During Five-year Rule"

Oh, and i forgot. Drugdealing does no carry a mandatory death sentence, cross border trafficing does (often gets commuted to life).

Penzman edited- same quote appeared twice---

Edited by penzman
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somebody suggested I read this thread. so, I did..

my 2 cents?

who would take the blame in that sort of scenario?

...wouldn't it be the tax accountant? or the lawyers?

it would be the person who signed on the dotted line.... Pin and Pan

on the subject of drug dealers..

it seems to me that it is a well known fact that dealing in drugs carries the death penalty here in thailand. wouldn't it be logical for a drug dealer to try to resist arrest when confronted by the police knowing that he is for certain going to be executed?

.. my guess is that many did, and as a result forced the police to take them down.

I don't expect a police officer to risk his life for someone who is a drug dealer. if the drug dealer pulled out a gun, I would expect the police officer to shoot him dead. wouldn't you?

There's a wealth of death information available online about the slaughter of thousands. Suggest you read up a bit more on the many cases of people shot in the back, killed in a hail of first-strike attacks, etc.

If the situation was as you describe, I don't think many would object, but since it wasn't as you described, many many people and organizations HAVE objected.

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somebody suggested I read this thread. so, I did..

my 2 cents?

who would take the blame in that sort of scenario?

...wouldn't it be the tax accountant? or the lawyers?

it would be the person who signed on the dotted line.... Pin and Pan

in the states, if you hire a tax accountant to do your taxes, and they mess up, they pay for the damages - not you. the same goes for title insurance companies, if they mess up on their side when you buy some property, they are liable.

if thaivisa messed up your one year visa, who should be blamed?

on the subject of drug dealers..

it seems to me that it is a well known fact that dealing in drugs carries the death penalty here in thailand. wouldn't it be logical for a drug dealer to try to resist arrest when confronted by the police knowing that he is for certain going to be executed?

.. my guess is that many did, and as a result forced the police to take them down.

I don't expect a police officer to risk his life for someone who is a drug dealer. if the drug dealer pulled out a gun, I would expect the police officer to shoot him dead. wouldn't you?

There's a wealth of death information available online about the slaughter of thousands. Suggest you read up a bit more on the many cases of people shot in the back, killed in a hail of first-strike attacks, etc.

If the situation was as you describe, I don't think many would object, but since it wasn't as you described, many many people and organizations HAVE objected.

I wasn't at the scene when these "executions" occurred, so, I can't comment about them. your wife may have witnessed one. but in your own words, thousands occurred. since you weren't there at most of them, how can you comment on them? ..just curious, was this drug dealer that your wife witness get slain a friend or someone she knew?

I'm more inclined to believe a police officer over a drug dealer. maybe I'm naive, but I don't believe all police officers here in thailand are corrupt.

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I'm more inclined to believe a police officer over a drug dealer. maybe I'm naive, but I don't believe all police officers here in thailand are corrupt.

Haha,

Your naivete never ceases to amaze me. When it comes to crime in Thailand, the police are biggest problem. Survey after survey points to the police as the single most corrupt government department. In varying degrees, they are in cahoots with organized crime, influential figures, protection rackets, corrupt politicians, you name it. It's worse than what you see in those NY or Chicago mafia movies. Speaking of movies, have you ever seen "Traffic"? If you havn't, let me suggest that you do when you're free. The corruption and complicity in the drug trade by the Mexican police portrayed in that movie is quite something - and the situation in Thailand is worse.

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Opposition party will investigate the shares of Win Mark Co.Ltd after finding out that PM Thaksin’s daughter is a share holder

The Opposition Party will investigate on the shares of Win Mark Co.Ltd after acknowledging that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s daughter is also one of the shareholders. The Oppostion has claimed that it might be the same as the issue relating Shin Corp’s shares.

In regards to the no-confidence debate that was launched against the government in the year 2000, Democrat Party Spokesperson Ong-art Klampaiboon (องอาจ คล้ามไพบูลย์) said Prime Minister Thaksin indicated that such shares were sold. However, Mr. Ong-art argued that those shares are now under the name of the premier's daughter, Ms. Phintonghta Shinawatra (พิณทองทา ชินวัตร).

He said such incident can indicate that the premier has used his authority to take advantage for his business.

As for the sales of Shin Corporation Public Company Limited’s shares to Ample Rich Investments, he said that the Opposition is closely following up on this matter.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 Febuary 2006

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it seems to me that it is a well known fact that dealing in drugs carries the death penalty here in thailand. wouldn't it be logical for a drug dealer to try to resist arrest when confronted by the police knowing that he is for certain going to be executed?

Thailand hasn't executed anyone since 2003. Why don't you check facts before forming your opinions.

has anyone ever considered that maybe the people who thaksin hired to take care of his finances are the ones to blame for these current mishaps?

Don't you realise that the problem is that Taksin had a hand in managing Ample Rich investments all the time? It's illegal for him to have any interest in that company. If Taksin's link can be proved, he's out.

His lawers might have made a few mistakes here and there and didn't cover all the tracks but it's not them who owned a company.

my 2 cents?

Fake money.

Now I think I got the quotes right.

Edited by Plus
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Vice ICT Minister indicated that the amendments of telecom laws were not aimed at favoring Shin Corp.

Vice Minister of the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) Kanawat Wasinsangworn (คณวัฒน์ วศินสังวร) indicated that the amendments of Telecommunications laws were not in favor of the Shin Corp group.

Mr. Kanawat responded to charges by Major-general Chamlong Srimuang (จำลอง ศรีเมือง), who called for the premier’s resignation, that there were irregularities in the amendments of telecommunications laws to favor Shin Corp’s businesses, saying that there were misunderstandings regarding the case. He explained that three telecom companies had urged the Transport Ministry to amend the Act since December 18, 2001, before the ICT ministry took over the responsibilities. He said that it took four years since the telecom law amendments started, before the amendments were declared in the Royal Gazette on January 20th, 2006.

Therefore, he insisted that the laws were not amended quickly to favor Shin Corp’s share sales, as suggested. He urged the people to use their judgment when receiving news, so that they will not be easily misled.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 Febuary 2006

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