Negativity About English Teachers In Thailand On Here?

[BespokeMan]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

[David48]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

That's a bit tough ...

.

[SteeleJoe]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

That's brilliant! That might even catch on as a hugely overused cliche!

[chonabot]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

How about those who have 'done' for 25 years and also teach later in life..and are still under 50 ?

FWIW teaching is far more rewarding than undertaking a highly paid ( in comparison ) Unix coding job in the sterile world of 'doing'

[thaicbr]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

And those that don't think post the above .

[Grumbles]

I teach and I enjoy it. If I wanted to take on a high paid, high stress job then I would go back home and do it, as I would make more money.

I choose to teach, I find the majority of my students are great kids and the pleasure I derive when they 'get' the point of something I have been trying to teach them or when I say something and they come back with an appropriate (if mildly cheeky) response, makes the job worthwhile.

Sure there are some people who take the job on to get a work permit and some regular drinking money. The majority of people I meet, are people who care about what they do and the kids they are teaching.

As for the miserable SOB's that whinge about everyone & everything - Sucks to be you!!!

[Chittychangchang]

Teaching is a highly respectable, so why do some members look down on the proffession in Thailand.

It doesn't make sense and defies logic.

Teaching is a rewarding and dificult job.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Back to the OT I knew some teachers and ALL are good guys, well prepared and with proper reference, the problem are the programs teaching system of the different schools which often did not allow to these teachers to show their capacity

Yes, my perception of nearly all the Thai-run schools I"ve taught at are that management is focused primarily on:

• impressing the parents and higher-ups through appearances
  
• ensuring no one makes them look bad
  
• having an easy working life with minimum effort
  

with the quality of curriculum or any concern with what goes on the classroom a very definite dead last.

The best most teachers can hope for is to be left completely left alone with no support or direction and allowed to get on with teaching at whatever level of quality their skills training and experience allow.

However more often the administrative requirements, scheduling snafus, lack of communications actively impede their work, and if they raise any concerns at all, no matter how obviously intended to help them give the kids a good education, they are immediately branded as troublemakers and more often than not eased out and not hired back next term.

Much better to work for a farang-run establishment even if the pay is lower, life is too short to put up with the incredible BS the school system here puts a dedicated teacher through.

[barefoot1988]

a restaurant owner told me he dont like backpackers and teachers. btw he seems to be offended at me for ordering a promotion meal with just mineral water instead of the typical sugary beverages or alcohol and he is assuming me to be either a backpacker or a teacher. eventually i got really pissed off and did a stupid move by giving him a 1000 baht note for a 200 baht meal and asked him to keep the change

A bit OP, Barefoot you are not a backpacker neither a teacher but you teach me a good selling Technic.......I will say, "you can't buy my coffee machine because you can't afford it right?........... sbamm cash on the table

Back to the OT I knew some teachers and ALL are good guys, well prepared and with proper reference, the problem are the programs teaching system of the different schools which often did not allow to these teachers to show their capacity

indeed in a stupid move by me, i admit. but it might works for you but i doubt it would be any beneficial for the f&b business since its a once deal. i would think repeating customer would be far better than the measly 1000 baht

[FredLee]

If they were doing a good job how come the Thai kids are so poor in English, sure the education system is to blame, but then 'teachers' with crappy qualifications and the wrong motives hardly help matters.

Most Thai children are not taught by foreigners. Have you ever spoken to a typical Thai English teacher? The ones that are teaching the students most of the time? If you don't speak Thai, don't bother, because they don't speak English. There are plenty of unqualified foreign teachers in Thailand, but an unqualified native speaker is a major improvement over the majority of Thai English teachers who do not even speak the language they are teaching.

My niece was taught English by a Thai teacher. We recently cleaned out my wife's old house in order to sell it, and I came across several of my niece's old notebooks. There are page after page of beautifully handwritten English sentences, often with each one being repeated five times. This was very surprising to me, since the only English I have ever heard her speak is "Good morning, Uncle" or "Thank you". I am not sure what the local school's system is, but it doesn't appear to be very effective.

[BespokeMan]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

And those that don't think post the above .

To the English Teachers here, honestly, is the above statement by thaicbr, grammatically correct?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

My niece was taught English by a Thai teacher. We recently cleaned out my wife's old house in order to sell it, and I came across several of my niece's old notebooks. There are page after page of beautifully handwritten English sentences, often with each one being repeated five times. This was very surprising to me, since the only English I have ever heard her speak is "Good morning, Uncle" or "Thank you". I am not sure what the local school's system is, but it doesn't appear to be very effective.

It isn't.

I've run embassy-sponsored teaching methodology courses for Thai teachers of English, and very few of them had any appreciable ability to communicate in the language, and 90% of those that did had reading/writing skills only, not speaking/listening to any degree.

Unfortunately in this case "those who can't teach" was very accurate.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

> And those that don't think post the above .

To the English Teachers here, honestly, is the above statement by thaicbr, grammatically correct?

Nitpicking grammar issues is very much the icing on the communicative cake, IOW of inconsequential importance.

Unfortunately that's what the Thais focus on most 8-)

Were you concerned about the missing comma, the space before the full stop, or the fact that he started with "And"?

Note that much of what you learned in grade school grammar has been discarded as overly prescriptive, the latter error has always been so widely used by NES it's now recognized as fine in all but the most formal contexts ("registers") of usage.

Within an online medium such as this, it is a total waste of time to try to use the same quality of usage that you'd want in say a corporate hard copy letter. And certainly even more so to bother with other people's mistakes.

PS no need to capitalise "Teacher" 8-)

[lomatopo]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

You should run, not walk, to your English teacher and demand a refund.

[MahaYellow]

Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else.

Spot on !

The last sentence said it all !!

[chiangmaikelly]

Teaching is a highly respectable, so why do some members look down on the proffession in Thailand.

It doesn't make sense and defies logic.

Teaching is a rewarding and dificult job.

Why? Because of stereotypical posts like the following, " Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else."

There is just no excuse for an adult to post something like that especially when posting about negative stereotyping.

I think teaching is a great profession and have the utmost respect for many teachers just not some of the ones posting in this thread.

Edited November 6, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[StreetCowboy]

...

PS no need to capitalise "Teacher" 8-)

But Teacher's is a different story.

I'd rather a couple fo wee Teacher's than a couple of wee teachers.

SC

[transam]

Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else.

So they come on here to denigrate their fellows by way of generalisation.

The embarrassing thing is that I'm so naive I actually think you were being serious.

SC

I must be hitting the nail on the head. More people agree with me than disagree with me.

I don't agree with you. I understand that many may post in YOUR vein but we are all different and talk here for perhaps entertainment to fill our day,

[StreetCowboy]

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

That's a bit tough ...

.

those that can do.

those can not, teach.

That's a bit tough ...

.

I think he meant "Those that can, do. Those that cannot, teach"; of course, we ought to use "who", rather than "that", I believe.

It's intended to be a witty criticism of teachers, but in the case of Bespokeman, it was just a damning indictment of his own education.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else.

So they come on here to denigrate their fellows by way of generalisation.

The embarrassing thing is that I'm so naive I actually think you were being serious.

SC

I must be hitting the nail on the head. More people agree with me than disagree with me.

God forbid that one aspired to the average level on Thai Visa!

Without you chaps, I'd have no-one to whom I could feel superior...

SC

[ThaiRich]

Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else.

So they come on here to denigrate their fellows by way of generalisation.

The embarrassing thing is that I'm so naive I actually think you were being serious.

SC

I must be hitting the nail on the head. More people agree with me than disagree with me.

God forbid that one aspired to the average level on Thai Visa!

Without you chaps, I'd have no-one to whom I could feel superior...

SC

Are you denying that there are many people here in Thailand that are unhappy? Which of the groups I have listed that many people (NOT ALL) do you feel don't exist here?

Are you saying there are no bitter people on this forum?

Are you saying there are no people on this forum that are perhaps not completely happy with their personal relationship?

Are you saying there are no people on this forum that can not afford to live comfortably in their own country on their social security?

Are you saying there are no people on this forum that might be miserable with their lives. Misery loves company.

Please point out what I've said that just simply is not true.

Is it not true that usually people who are not happy with themselves look for things in other people to criticize?

[geriatrickid]

Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives.

I`ve really noticed this, the Issan forum especially. So many people simply not happy with "their lot." They deal with this by trying to belittle others and drag them down also.

I think the sight of a normal 22 year old having the time of his life teaching is almost sickening to some fat old guy who feels trapped in a foreign country, with nothing but death to look forward to.

My observations are somewhat different. Based on the posts I have read, many of the Issan based foreigners are content with their lives. They have found an unhurried pace and an affordable environment. I don't really see the same degree of nastiness posted as from elsewhere. Maybe that's a byproduct of reaching an age where they have mastered maturity? I don't think too many "normal" 22 year olds locate to and stay long term in Issan. Young people today have a low threshold for exploitation and tough working conditions.Issan is not the place a 22 year old is going to select for a long term teaching career

I have not spent much time in Issan so I cannot comment on the "fat foreigner" contingent, but I doubt it is worse than what one gets in Patong or Pattaya. I suggest that Phuket probably has more unhappy foreigners than elsewhere for the simple reason that the cost of living is about 25% higher than anywhere else. Road rage is a regular occurrence. It's crowded, dirty and one of the most corrupt places in Thailand. I dare say that Patong wins the crown of corruption hands down, making Koh Samui and Pattaya look law abiding in comparison. The number of buff young men is high because so many pass through as tourists, extended stay travelers or come from Muay thai boxing. I can't say I envy the 22 year old guys that I sometimes see with their new special friends. I do wonder sometimes if they realize that the woman is often 10 years older or has a undeclared kids. I have even seen some unsophisticated boys walking hand in hand with a kathoey, and wonder what the reaction will be when they get to the room and the anatomy is revealed. So really, I doubt there is much jealousy there. Rather, I feel sorry because a painful lesson in life will about to be imparted.

I feel for a great many of the younger teachers because they have often been conned. they thought they were going to be dealing with responsible educational administrations like in their homelands and instead shook hands with the devil. Poor pay, often paid late, visa hassles, threats and intimidation, unruly students, office politics, and horrible accomodation. It can be rather demotivating, don't you think?

Know what I find amusing? People complain about the quality of teachers, but then look for the school with the lowest fees. If a school pays its teachers crap, chances are that the teachers and quality of education will reflect that. The young teachers come full of high hopes and enthusiasm and often leave feeling burnt out and missing that idealistic fervor that makes kids brim with energy and a lust for life.

[ThaiRich]

Teaching is a highly respectable, so why do some members look down on the proffession in Thailand.

It doesn't make sense and defies logic.

Teaching is a rewarding and dificult job.

Why? Because of stereotypical posts like the following, " Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else."

There is just no excuse for an adult to post something like that especially when posting about negative stereotyping.

I think teaching is a great profession and have the utmost respect for many teachers just not some of the ones posting in this thread.

I wasn't stereotyping. I didn't say old men living in Chiang Mai. I said many of the people. This is wide open young, old, rich or poor, sorry it's not a stereotype.

I hope I am able to sleep tonight with the knowledge that you don't respect me, because that means so much to me.

Edited November 6, 2012 by ThaiRich

[chiangmaikelly]

Teaching is a highly respectable, so why do some members look down on the proffession in Thailand.

It doesn't make sense and defies logic.

Teaching is a rewarding and dificult job.

Why? Because of stereotypical posts like the following, " Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else."

There is just no excuse for an adult to post something like that especially when posting about negative stereotyping.

I think teaching is a great profession and have the utmost respect for many teachers just not some of the ones posting in this thread.

I wasn't stereotyping. I didn't say old men living in Chiang Mai. I said many of the people. This is wide open young, old, rich or poor, sorry it's not a stereotype.

I hope I am able to sleep tonight with the knowledge that you don't respect me, because that means so much to me.

The comment was made,

"I think if we heard this kind of snobbery towards teachers from someone working in say Morgan Stanley in BKK, it would be slightly more understandable. It tends to eminate mostly from older guys, "i`v e lived hear so long I`m nearly a local" types, usually shacked up in a sleepy village with a girl half their age."

You're comment, “Truer words have never been spoken. “

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

...

...

Are you denying that there are many people here in Thailand that are unhappy? Which of the groups I have listed that many people (NOT ALL) do you feel don't exist here?

Are you saying there are no bitter people on this forum?

Are you saying there are no people on this forum that are perhaps not completely happy with their personal relationship?

Are you saying there are no people on this forum that can not afford to live comfortably in their own country on their social security?

Are you saying there are no people on this forum that might be miserable with their lives. Misery loves company.

Please point out what I've said that just simply is not true.

Is it not true that usually people who are not happy with themselves look for things in other people to criticize?

Good Lord! If one felt obliged to say everything that was true then where would we stand? I am happy to let you be the judge of our fellow posters; sadly, I still have not found the aposite word for a statement that is the very epitome of that which it criticises, but I would use it in the case of your post if I knew the word.

"Is it not true that usually people who are not happy with themselves look for things in other people to criticize?"

It was you that was denigrating your fellow posters. I try to criticise what people post on the internet, rather than the people that post it - no doubt out of deceit, though I am not one given to self-examination.

SC

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I feel for a great many of the younger teachers because they have often been conned. they thought they were going to be dealing with responsible educational administrations like in their homelands and instead shook hands with the devil. Poor pay, often paid late, visa hassles, threats and intimidation, unruly students, office politics, and horrible accomodation. It can be rather demotivating, don't you think?

All true except the unruly students, have never found that hear at all, certainly nothing like back home. But maybe I'm just more stricter and/or more entertaining than most (I like to think 8-).

Know what I find amusing? People complain about the quality of teachers, but then look for the school with the lowest fees. If a school pays its teachers crap, chances are that the teachers and quality of education will reflect that.

Actually some of the most pleasant working environments have been at the relatively poor school's I've taught at. Note that outside of the (usually so called) international schools, there is very little difference in pay between the expensive international program places and ordinary government schools.

And the ones with the lowest fees don't have any hope in hell of being able to afford even B25K per month, so they're stuck with the Thai teachers of pseudo-English. Unfortunately everyone looks to the government to fix the problems, when the MoE is the primary source of the problem. . .

There are so many deeply fundamental problems with the whole educational system here it's just depressing for someone who cares about the issue. 8-(

[ThaiRich]

Teaching is a highly respectable, so why do some members look down on the proffession in Thailand.

It doesn't make sense and defies logic.

Teaching is a rewarding and dificult job.

Why? Because of stereotypical posts like the following, " Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else."

There is just no excuse for an adult to post something like that especially when posting about negative stereotyping.

I think teaching is a great profession and have the utmost respect for many teachers just not some of the ones posting in this thread.

I wasn't stereotyping. I didn't say old men living in Chiang Mai. I said many of the people. This is wide open young, old, rich or poor, sorry it's not a stereotype.

I hope I am able to sleep tonight with the knowledge that you don't respect me, because that means so much to me.

The comment was made,

"I think if we heard this kind of snobbery towards teachers from someone working in say Morgan Stanley in BKK, it would be slightly more understandable. It tends to eminate mostly from older guys, "i`v e lived hear so long I`m nearly a local" types, usually shacked up in a sleepy village with a girl half their age."

You're comment, “Truer words have never been spoken. “

True. I agreed with another members. You and this cowboy member aren't usually on here posting negative things about teachers. Usually most of your post are informative. This was by no means an attack at you. If it doesn't apply to you then you shouldn't take it to heart. Because actually reading your post and comments over the years I had an amount of respect for your opinions.

[mancub]

I think alot of the negativity stems seemingly from the fact that to "legally" work here unless employed by a foreign Corporation , you have to fulfill the criteria of performing a skill/trade that a Thai is not capable of , therefore not denying a native of an employment opportunity .

Essentially ,teaching English and working as a Dive-master currently meet these req's and therefore provide options for some people to stay here longer than they otherwise would be able (which I don't see as a bad thing ). Most ex-pats on the forum will be acquainted with someone who falls into this category of "non-career "teacher with a TEFL certificate ,who openly admit that they are just going through the motions .

Teacher training in the UK ; 4-6 years ?

TEFL training ...4-6 weeks !

Qualified ,experienced teachers normally do get the respect they deserve ..others don't because of this stigma and abuse/opportunism ...depending on your standpoint .

[meatballs]

Guess guys joke about them because their pay isn't that great. Although 40k or whatever they make is not too bad for Thailand. Just glad I don't have to do it.

[Trembly]

Back to the OT I knew some teachers and ALL are good guys, well prepared and with proper reference, the problem are the programs teaching system of the different schools which often did not allow to these teachers to show their capacity

Yes, my perception of nearly all the Thai-run schools I"ve taught at are that management is focused primarily on:

• impressing the parents and higher-ups through appearances
  
• ensuring no one makes them look bad
  
• having an easy working life with minimum effort
  

with the quality of curriculum or any concern with what goes on the classroom a very definite dead last.

The best most teachers can hope for is to be left completely left alone with no support or direction and allowed to get on with teaching at whatever level of quality their skills training and experience allow.

However more often the administrative requirements, scheduling snafus, lack of communications actively impede their work, and if they raise any concerns at all, no matter how obviously intended to help them give the kids a good education, they are immediately branded as troublemakers and more often than not eased out and not hired back next term.

Much better to work for a farang-run establishment even if the pay is lower, life is too short to put up with the incredible BS the school system here puts a dedicated teacher through.

Spot on.