Futsal World Cup: Fifa Drops Bombshell On Bangkok Arena

[frankold]

When was the last time there was a failing of this magnitude for some world event?

I remember there always being worries that venues don't get completed on time. World cup, Olympics, Ukraine, South Africa etc etc. But the organisers always seem to manage it.

Considering this was just a single stadium unlike other events that require multiple, it really is a piss poor performance.

[dezeure]

LoL delay in budget approval...

Get it in your skulls you cant keep lying and still think like nothing is wrong. It was the teamoney and corruption which again delayed the whole process and forced them to take shortcuts. SOM NAM NA. lesson well learnt (if they ever get it in their head)

Now you wont have FIFA. I cant wait till they start building the F1 track that needs to be ready by 2014...

[Thai at Heart]

When was the last time there was a failing of this magnitude for some world event?

I remember there always being worries that venues don't get completed on time. World cup, Olympics, Ukraine, South Africa etc etc. But the organisers always seem to manage it.

Considering this was just a single stadium unlike other events that require multiple, it really is a piss poor performance.

Indeed, even Athens managed the Olympics, even it meant they were still putting ornamental plants in the borders the day before.

[DocN]

Really it just comes down to the massive cultural differences between Thailand and countries like the USA and UK. It's unfair to point blame to any individual or even government body because it goes far deeper than that. It's not that the Thailand way is wrong so much as Thailand way is different and incompatible with western ideas of meeting deadlines and standards.

I'm not sure that corruption has as much of a impact on this as is suggested here, sure it's an issue but again I think the problem goes much deeper.

Will Thailand business practices ever be "compatible" with the west ? I don't know, but I'm concerned that it would require such a massive change in the way that Thai people think that in order for that to happen, Thailand would not be Thailand.

Remember we have to take the rough with the smooth. It's Thailand's unique outlook that makes Thailand the wonderful place that it is.. I know we moan and complain all the time but deep down we love the Thai's and they ways or we wouldn't be here right?

....ahm...so??

If you want to compete on a world stage, hosting a WORLD CUP...what do you expect FIFA to do?

Adept to Thailand's view of the world?

This is not only about building a stadium.

There is some logistics involved in the countries, that take part in this event.

Book hotels, training facilities, flights. Arrange for the players to take a holiday (as FUTSAL is not played professionally anywhere, all players are amateurs, with regular jobs), arrange a staff with doctors etc.

"Oh BMA...you can not finish in time? Shall we re-book all our flights, than?"

No sorry; you wanna play with the other guys, accept and adept to INTERNATIONAL rules and don't expect the world to dance to the tune you are playing!

[robsamui]

I think this could be a valuable, albeit expensive lesson, if people and organizations in Thailand would choose to use it as such. The lesson is this:

In the real world, not every mistake or failure to perform can be taken care of with a cute smile, a deep wai or a token transfer to an inactive post. The real world is a demanding and very competitive place where bad performance and bad behaviour have actual cosequences that can't be swept under the rug.

I suspect however that those responsible in this case will expend all their energy to justify their failure and delegate blame to everyone but themselves, as the early reactions from the BMA suggest. They may only find out in 2015 what a harsh place the real world really is, when they have to start measuring up to the often much higher standards of the whole ASEAN region.

The sad part of it all is the very thing that the Thais are so fiercely proud of - the fact they've never been conquered or invaded. This is the kingpin of their rampant nationalism and it's their proud and defiant boast that they continue to resist the 'corrupting' effect of foreign influences on their culture.

Unfortunately one or two Thai folks are beginning to become aware of the flaw in this attitude - that the more Thailand shoves it head in the sand like an ostrich, the quicker the world outside moves on.

One the one hand it's reasonable for Thailand to look around its little corner of the world and feel superior to its neighbours. But then the Thais stagger in shock when they are forced into contact with unpleasant farang concepts such as accountability, reliability, responsibility, integrity and honesty.

Every day in their schools the children have to chant a creed about what a wonderful country Thailand is - the best in the world. But it's now gone past the point where having lots of fish and rice has a great deal of meaning.

We, the Thai people, are the greatest in the world also.

In our water, there are abundancy of fish and in our field, there are golden rice paddies.

There is no other country on this earth that can compare with our beloved Thailand.

R

There is nothing wrong with national anthems and being proud of your country. It is the ability for self criticism and accountability that is a most vital issue that normally goes missing here. There are many countries in the world that are nationalistic to one degree or another, but when something goes wrong or needs to be changed, people don't wait to be told what to do, they club together and get on with it.

On the very simplest level, Thailand can't even have a reasoned debate about who runs the country without resorting to street protests, arson, shootings and army intervention. On the surface, Thai's are told they are one all together, but in reality, this society is so class, origin, and position divided, that inevitably something is going to have to give one day if situations such as this topic are ever going to change.

I completely agree with all you say. But I stress my point that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Either a nation resists change and turns its back on the world like a hermit up a mountain or it strives for its place in the greater world arena

For whatever the reason, Thailand is now finding that its outlook on life isn't in line with the rest of the world. And Thailand is more and more being forced to have contact with the world outside. It must be an intolerable paradox for many Thai people . . .

R

[Notstupid30]

And Thailand wanna host a F1 Race's

[softgeorge]

What is Futsal? I appologise for my ignorance but I have never heard of Futsal, is it some sort of Thai Boxing?

But I bet you've heard of Google . . . . ;-)

R

Found it thanks, and sorry for asking.

It is the American version of soccer as stated on google.

[robsamui]

What is Futsal? I appologise for my ignorance but I have never heard of Futsal, is it some sort of Thai Boxing?

But I bet you've heard of Google . . . . ;-)

R

Found it thanks, and sorry for asking.

It is the American version of soccer as stated on google.

err . . . no. Look a bit closer, maybe using google.co.uk? The Americans have no connection.

it's indoor hardcourt 'soccer' played 5(?)-a-side.

Futsal began in Uruguay and Brazil where the large crowded cities and a shortage of playing pitches forced a football mad populace to play small sided football and in 1936 the first rules emerged. Futsal was the name chosen by FIFA, which is simply a combination of the Spanish words for

‘hall’ (Sala)

and

‘football’ (Futbol)

: hence ‘Futsal’.

R

Edited November 7, 2012 by robsamui

[Thai at Heart]

I think this could be a valuable, albeit expensive lesson, if people and organizations in Thailand would choose to use it as such. The lesson is this:

In the real world, not every mistake or failure to perform can be taken care of with a cute smile, a deep wai or a token transfer to an inactive post. The real world is a demanding and very competitive place where bad performance and bad behaviour have actual cosequences that can't be swept under the rug.

I suspect however that those responsible in this case will expend all their energy to justify their failure and delegate blame to everyone but themselves, as the early reactions from the BMA suggest. They may only find out in 2015 what a harsh place the real world really is, when they have to start measuring up to the often much higher standards of the whole ASEAN region.

The sad part of it all is the very thing that the Thais are so fiercely proud of - the fact they've never been conquered or invaded. This is the kingpin of their rampant nationalism and it's their proud and defiant boast that they continue to resist the 'corrupting' effect of foreign influences on their culture.

Unfortunately one or two Thai folks are beginning to become aware of the flaw in this attitude - that the more Thailand shoves it head in the sand like an ostrich, the quicker the world outside moves on.

One the one hand it's reasonable for Thailand to look around its little corner of the world and feel superior to its neighbours. But then the Thais stagger in shock when they are forced into contact with unpleasant farang concepts such as accountability, reliability, responsibility, integrity and honesty.

Every day in their schools the children have to chant a creed about what a wonderful country Thailand is - the best in the world. But it's now gone past the point where having lots of fish and rice has a great deal of meaning.

We, the Thai people, are the greatest in the world also.

In our water, there are abundancy of fish and in our field, there are golden rice paddies.

There is no other country on this earth that can compare with our beloved Thailand.

R

There is nothing wrong with national anthems and being proud of your country. It is the ability for self criticism and accountability that is a most vital issue that normally goes missing here. There are many countries in the world that are nationalistic to one degree or another, but when something goes wrong or needs to be changed, people don't wait to be told what to do, they club together and get on with it.

On the very simplest level, Thailand can't even have a reasoned debate about who runs the country without resorting to street protests, arson, shootings and army intervention. On the surface, Thai's are told they are one all together, but in reality, this society is so class, origin, and position divided, that inevitably something is going to have to give one day if situations such as this topic are ever going to change.

I completely agree with all you say. But I stress my point that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Either a nation resists change and turns its back on the world like a hermit up a mountain or it strives for its place in the greater world arena

For whatever the reason, Thailand is now finding that its outlook on life isn't in line with the rest of the world. And Thailand is more and more being forced to have contact with the world outside. It must be an intolerable paradox for many Thai people . . .

R

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

[jbrain]

If they had venues that were suitable, as clear from the OP, then why in the first place was there the need to build a 1.3 Billion arena?

[jbrain]

Judging fromm the OP, the proposed F! will also be held at Bira circuit then.

[robsamui]

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

Some direct insights and I agree with every word except for the first sentence. Do the pooyais know that change is inevitable? By your own account, not so. Does the Thai Nation in general know? I think not. I think the Thai nation is now being forced in increasingly more ways to mesh with the world outside and - for all the reasons you have outlined and more - is not able to either compete or concur.

R

Edited November 7, 2012 by robsamui

[HOOD Robin]

Welcome to the real world. You can't ignore a problem and hope it will just go away.

C O R R E C T !!! Unfortunately this happens waaaaay to much in Thailand... and again unfortunately.... they will NEVER learn..... TiT

[Fozfromoz]

TAH.

Spot on, and in particular your last para. Projects Management 101. Critical path identified. Contingency plan for/ around it. I guess the PM process was to pay customs, probably not enough, so it got held up. Then again as you say, probably just an excuse.

[mrtoad]

And they want to build a Nuclear Power plant, they can't even build a frigging Futsal pitch.

[DocN]

TAH.

Spot on, and in particular your last para. Projects Management 101. Critical path identified. Contingency plan for/ around it. I guess the PM process was to pay customs, probably not enough, so it got held up. Then again as you say, probably just an excuse.

And even if it isn't an excuse...

a) they got the flooring for World Cup event delivered, 7 to 10 days before the first whistle???!!! Delivered, mind you...not installed!

b ) even with customs you deal a loooooooong time before that! You don't start at short notice!

[HappyWanderer]

I'm sitting in a bar near a group of loud American men with their Thai girls. Being very loud they are. They are talking about this subject here.

One guy says at the top of his voice "I THOUGHT THAI PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO LOSE FACE. HAHAHAAA HOW CAN THEY LOSE FACE IF THEY CAN''T FIND THEIR FACE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!! HAHAHAAA"

I thought that was .... err ummm .... quite controversial

[KHR1010]

Wait till the Formula One starts their Due Diligence in Thailand for the much hyped race to be held in the Kingdom!

[nahkit]

On the 31st of October, the Bangkok Metropolitan Association thanked FIFA for approving the use of the Bangkok Futsal Arena. Now either someone at the BMA were talking out of their other end or that was a deliberate attempt to force FIFA into giving approval.

Either way, it obviously didn't work.

[kevvy]

TIT (this is thailand)

[Thai at Heart]

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

Some direct insights and I agree with every word except for the first sentence. Do the pooyais know that change is inevitable? By your own account, not so. Does the Thai Nation in general know? I think not. I think the Thai nation is now being forced in increasingly more ways to mesh with the world outside and - for all the reasons you have outlined and more - is not able to either compete or concur.

R

Day by day it changes, subtly, and slowly. The media, the internet, travel, reading learning, education all help to open peoples eyes just a bit every day.

35 year old city living people in Thailand today are massively different to 35 year old city living people 30 years ago. Their eyes are much wider open than their parents.

This is why the pooyai misses the point all the time trying to limit the internet, continue to push crap indoctrinated tv, give terrible uninquisitive news coverage.

But, they are fighting a losing battle. People that I know well are openly jaundiced about authority and corruption. Not on a democrat versus ptp line though, rather that realising the whole system is bent.

As an anecdote, last weekend we were at a soccer competition with my kids, and al local PTP tessaban bloke came along with his entourage in tow, handing out leaflets. As he simpered up to everyone, waiing respectfully, someone muttered words to the effect, "When he gets voted in, his hands will be chock full of money, he won't be able to wai,"

Times change

Edited November 7, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[henkie220358]

I like to now what the do wen the get F1 in Bangkok

[bigbamboo]

Sadly this is a microcosm of how things are too often done here in Thailand.

The wrong people in charge, a lack of planning, money going missing from the budget..... the usual same, same.

[dude007]

Again it is the administration that has failed, not the technicians. Administration didn't get it done (approving the finances) in time due to disputes in hwo will be paid what, how much and when? The same old story. They don't care whether the country's reputation is at stake or not. They only care about the greed and their own wallet....

Som nam naa... Believe me: it will happen again!

[dude007]

Again it is the administration that has failed, not the technicians. Administration didn't get it done (approving the finances) in time due to disputes in who will be paid what, how much and when? The same old story. They don't care whether the country's reputation is at stake or not. That's not their interest. They only care about the greed and their own wallet....

Som nam naa... Believe me: it will happen again!

[dude007]

naaah. Heard before... What a situation!

[Jayroo]

What a farce. If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how can you then find the time to go back and fix it? The halving of number of days for construction, obviously was a major concern, and by cutting corners to meet the deadline, things FIFA deemed essential were overlooked by BMA but not by FIFA. At any rate, now they 'should' take their time, do it 100% then re-approach FIFA and seek approval for next season. All is not lost but in the eyes of the world, Thailand yet again, is screwing things up.

"next season"? <deleted> are you talking about? don't you know how World Cups work? there is not such thing as seasons, and the next one will most definitely not be hosted in Thailand.

[Artisi]

Couldn't organise to get their leg-over in a brothel.

[DocN]

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

Some direct insights and I agree with every word except for the first sentence. Do the pooyais know that change is inevitable? By your own account, not so. Does the Thai Nation in general know? I think not. I think the Thai nation is now being forced in increasingly more ways to mesh with the world outside and - for all the reasons you have outlined and more - is not able to either compete or concur.

R

Day by day it changes, subtly, and slowly. The media, the internet, travel, reading learning, education all help to open peoples eyes just a bit every day.

35 year old city living people in Thailand today are massively different to 35 year old city living people 30 years ago. Their eyes are much wider open than their parents.

This is why the pooyai misses the point all the time trying to limit the internet, continue to push crap indoctrinated tv, give terrible uninquisitive news coverage.

But, they are fighting a losing battle. People that I know well are openly jaundiced about authority and corruption. Not on a democrat versus ptp line though, rather that realising the whole system is bent.

As an anecdote, last weekend we were at a soccer competition with my kids, and al local PTP tessaban bloke came along with his entourage in tow, handing out leaflets. As he simpered up to everyone, waiing respectfully, someone muttered words to the effect, "When he gets voted in, his hands will be chock full of money, he won't be able to wai,"

Times change

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you.

I am working and talking to many "younger generation" Thais.

Whenever they get cornered in their own illogical arguments, they fall back on displaying the mindset of 12 year old...and cty, at worst! And they can not hold an insult apart from a critical remark and end up, telling you that they are proud to be Thai and if you don't like it...go home!

There is no learning, no developing and no rebellion.

It is the same old song, played on and on....

[tingtongfarang]

When was the last time there was a failing of this magnitude for some world event?

I remember there always being worries that venues don't get completed on time. World cup, Olympics, Ukraine, South Africa etc etc. But the organisers always seem to manage it.

Considering this was just a single stadium unlike other events that require multiple, it really is a piss poor performance.

Indeed, even Athens managed the Olympics, even it meant they were still putting ornamental plants in the borders the day before.

And also built the access roads without drains...the drain grids were there but nothing behind them but the ground and they remain in the same condition, Then they erected advertising bill boards in many places to hide the piles stinking refuse and building waste rather than move it,

There were a multitude of sins but somehow the greeks managed to pull it off.