Thai Military Chiefs Oppose Using Security Act: Pitak Siam Rally

[webfact]

Military chiefs oppose using Security Act

The Nation

Police can handle crowd at anti-govt rally, Yingluck assured; Pitak Siam hopes for thousands to attend Nov 24 demo

BANGKOK: -- The Army chief and the armed forces supreme commander have opposed a suggestion by police and the National Security Council (NSC) that the government invoke the Internal Security Act (ISA) to deal with a mass rally planned for this month.

Supreme Commander General Thanasak Patimakorn and Army commander-in-chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha raised their objections at a meeting of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, top military commanders and the national police chief at Government House, according to a well-informed source.

Also attending the meeting were Navy commander-in-chief Admiral Surasak Roonrerngrom, Air Force commander-in-chief Air Chief Marshal Prajin Juntong and Police Commissioner-General Pol General Adul Saengsingkaew.

The meeting was held to give the police chief and military leaders an opportunity to analyse the situation relating to a rally planned for next weekend by the Pitak Siam group, which is led by retired General Boonlert Kaewprasit.

The security-affairs source said Yingluck also consulted the military leaders on steps for enforcing the ISA to deal with the protesters.

Invoking the ISA would allow the government to deploy troops as law enforcers to assist police in dealing with the situation. If the ISA were not invoked, police would have to deal with the protesters on their own.

The national police chief earlier announced he had prepared 50,000 officers to maintain law and order during the demonstration at the Royal Plaza on November 24.

Thanasak and Prayuth told Yingluck they wanted the government to use the normal laws to deal with the demonstration, because the military had monitored and analysed the situation and did not expect any untoward incident during the rally, the source said.

The two top commanders also told the prime minister they did not think that a third-party group would make a move to create a problem, so it would be unjustified for the government to enforce the ISA.

They told her that troops would not get involved in controlling the demonstrators.

However, Yingluck was informed that the NSC, the National Intelligence Agency (NIA) and Special Branch Police had conducted intelligence operations and found that the situation would be serious enough to warrant invoking the ISA.

The source said the meeting yesterday was inconclusive, so the prime minister would meet with representatives of the NSC, NIA and other security agencies to discuss the situation on Monday before making a decision.

According to the source, the security agencies recommended invoking the ISA on three main grounds.

First, they were not certain that Boonlert would be able to control the demonstrators, who would come from several groups.

Second, they feared that a third party might create a situation by using M79 grenade launchers to fire on the crowd.

Third, police were worried that they would be held responsible and be come the subject of legal action if the ISA was not enforced to exempt the law enforcers from responsibility in case of violence.

In a related development, Sunthorn Rakrong, a coordinator of the Group of People from 16 Southern Provinces, said his group, which supports the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy, would join the Boonlert-led demonstration.

Meanwhile, Pitak Siam spokesman Watchara Ritthakhanee sent representatives to submit a letter to the prime minister. The letter insisted that the rally on November 24 would be peaceful, in line with provisions of Article 63 of the Constitution.

Watchara said the organisers of the rally would be careful about possible interference by a third party.

In another development, former senator Ruangkrai Leekitwattana filed a complaint with Crime Suppression Division police yesterday accusing Boonlert of sedition for leading a previous anti-government rally on October 28.

He said Boonlert's attacks against the government and his call for its removal were tantamount to attempting to overthrow democratic rule.

-- The Nation 2012-11-17

[Moruya]

There should be no surprises whatsoever at the army's reluctance to get dragged in to this.

There should also be no surprises that the police have done nothing to train their forces in crowd control over the past 2.5 years. Damapong inaction may bite them up the backside.

[Thai at Heart]

You have to ask the armys permission to invoke theISA?

[nurofiend]

it's good that the army don't want to involve themselves but i hope the reasons why are operational based rather than political... not exactly an unreasonable concern.

Edited November 17, 2012 by nurofiend

[monkfish]

If enough people join in the Army will be able to justify the coup

So question does this group of fake yellow shirts pose any threat to national security?

[Moruya]

it's good that the army don't want to involve themselves but i hope the reasons why are operational based rather than political... not exactly an unreasonable concern.

Maybe they don't want to find themselves under attack from the 'ronin' once more and held accountable for the ensuing deaths.

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[Moruya]

You have to ask the armys permission to invoke theISA?

Ask Thaksin. His legislation.

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[Thai at Heart]

it's good that the army don't want to involve themselves but i hope the reasons why are operational based rather than political... not exactly an unreasonable concern.

Maybe they don't want to find themselves under attack from the 'ronin' once more and held accountable for the ensuing deaths.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Who was ronin anyway?

[whybother]

Who was ronin anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TqaVEIUw4U

Either that or Seh Daeng's MIB.

[Moruya]

it's good that the army don't want to involve themselves but i hope the reasons why are operational based rather than political... not exactly an unreasonable concern.

Maybe they don't want to find themselves under attack from the 'ronin' once more and held accountable for the ensuing deaths.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Who was ronin anyway?

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

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[tomross46]

The military does not start wars. Wars are started by greedy politicians, which use the blood of the people for there own purposes!

[Buchholz]

it's good that the army don't want to involve themselves but i hope the reasons why are operational based rather than political... not exactly an unreasonable concern.

Maybe they don't want to find themselves under attack from the 'ronin' once more and held accountable for the ensuing deaths.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Who was ronin anyway?

There's Japanese Ronin Warriors

And Thai Ronin Warriors

.

Edit to Add:

And of course, there's also the incomparable Robert De Niro as Ronin, with the great line in the video.

Q: Did you ever kill anybody?

A: I hurt somebody's feelings once.

.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Buchholz

[Bagwan]

Quote :- The national police chief earlier announced he had prepared 50,000 officers to maintain law and order during the demonstration at the Royal Plaza on November 24. Unquote

That'll be a first for Thailand. Much of the crime is perpetrated by BIB itself.

[tomross46]

Quote :- The national police chief earlier announced he had prepared 50,000 officers to maintain law and order during the demonstration at the Royal Plaza on November 24. Unquote

That'll be a first for Thailand. Much of the crime is perpetrated by BIB itself.

The Police wear Brown Shits, but thay are known as TOMATOES, red inside and out.

[waza]

"Third, police were worried that they would be held responsible and be come the subject of legal action if the ISA was not enforced to exempt the law enforcers from responsibility in case of violence".

The BIB seam to have their panties all in a bunch and are trying to handball their duty in crowd control over to the military. What a sad pathetic organisation they are.

[jbrain]

it's good that the army don't want to involve themselves but i hope the reasons why are operational based rather than political... not exactly an unreasonable concern.

Maybe they don't want to find themselves under attack from the 'ronin' once more and held accountable for the ensuing deaths.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Who was ronin anyway?

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

The movie Ronin was released 1998

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/

[jbrain]

I guess it shouldn't be difficult to control the grenade attacks from " A third party", since they are located within government ranks.

[Moruya]

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

The movie Ronin was released 1998

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/

It takes a while to reach Udon Thani

[OzMick]

Oh the sweet irony of it. Let's enact the much declaimed ISA because of a group that had not yet thrown as much as a punch, let alone rocks, molotov cocktails, bullets or explosive rounds, from the same bunch who brought us 2010.

And the admission, backed by historical precedent, that M-79 grenades may be used against this peaceful meeting by "persons unknown" otherwise known as a "third group". Anybody wish to try for today's Sherlock Holmes Award for working out who that third group may be?

[OzMick]

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

The movie Ronin was released 1998

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/

It takes a while to reach Udon Thani

everything takes a while to reach Udon Thani. If it was any further in the sticks, it would be called Chiang Whatever.

[Thai at Heart]

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

The movie Ronin was released 1998

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/

It takes a while to reach Udon Thani

Seen it years ago. What does it have too do with red shirts?

[Moruya]

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

The movie Ronin was released 1998

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/

It takes a while to reach Udon Thani

Seen it years ago. What does it have too do with red shirts?

Red shirts' heroes.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[jbrain]

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

The movie Ronin was released 1998

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/

It takes a while to reach Udon Thani

Seen it years ago. What does it have too do with red shirts?

You need to increase your post count for some reason or is it just for the sake of getting into an argument?

Everyone knows that Seh Daeng called his men Ronin Warriors during the 2010 protests.

Edited November 17, 2012 by jbrain

[billd766]

I can understand the Army's reluctance to take over as they did last time because the Police walked (or ran) away and the Army got shafted for it along with the Democrats.

It IS the responsibility of the Police to deal with it without invoking the ISA. That's what they get PAID to do properly.

If the military do have to go in under ISA then they should ONLY DO SO on receipt of a written instruction signed PERSONALLY by the PM, the Minister of Defence and Chalerm Yubamrung detailing EXACTLY what the Government wants done and that all the responsibility REMAINS with those 3 people. Then the Army should publish it.

Edited November 17, 2012 by billd766

[Buchholz]

It was the subject of a film by the same name around the time of the red violence. The poor souls thought the name was cool but obviously had no idea that it was borne from a cartoon.

The movie Ronin was released 1998

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122690/

It takes a while to reach Udon Thani

I believe he means the movie as in the Japanese version of Ronin.

Ronin Warrior

That genre of film became hugely popular much more recent than De Niro's depiction. Wiki tells us it was originally a TV show with nearly 40 episodes. I'm sure various compilations of multiple episodes would be put onto a single VCD (aka "movie") and sold in Thailand. Even today, that sort of program is very commonplace on the market stalls.

Ronin Warrior characters are identified by their various virtues, such as "Justice" and "Wisdom".

It's easy to see why Sae Daeng might want to latch onto such noble concepts to deceptively portray his group as the same, even though for his Ronin Warriors, it'd be more appropriate to have character names like "Mercenary" and "Assassin".

.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Buchholz

[tominbkk]

Are there 50,000 police in Thailand? Do they really need 1 policeman for each protestor? Are they actually prepared for handling a demonstration? Thai cops are red, so how can we know they won't flare up the situation?

[Buchholz]

I believe he means the movie as in the Japanese version of Ronin.

Ronin Warrior

Quite a resemblance in his real-life wannabe Ronin Warrior, rank and file Red Shirt

,

[Buchholz]

Are there 50,000 police in Thailand? Do they really need 1 policeman for each protestor? Are they actually prepared for handling a demonstration? Thai cops are red, so how can we know they won't flare up the situation?

I recall reading there were 250,00 cops here.

That would put it as 1 out of every 5 cops in the whole country will be in this one place.

.

[jbrain]

I believe he means the movie as in the Japanese version of Ronin.

Ronin Warrior

Quite a resemblance in his real-life wannabe Ronin Warrior, rank and file Red Shirt

,

How could you " fabricate " such a picture?

It is a well know fact that the red shirts were unarmed and holding peaceful protest, not?

Edited November 17, 2012 by jbrain

[nurofiend]

I believe he means the movie as in the Japanese version of Ronin.

Ronin Warrior

Quite a resemblance in his real-life wannabe Ronin Warrior, rank and file Red Shirt

,

isn't it amazing in all the time that the 2010 protest went on for, there's so little amount of pictures like this (one we've seen 1000 times before), you would think there would be 100's of them considering they were a mob of terrorists invading bangkok....

all those camera's, so little terrorists.

as for him being ronin, yeah i know you acknowledge the jest in your comment too.