For many years I have had the non-imm spouse visa granted using an Australian marriage certificate. We have always avoided the Thai marriage because of probable perceived difficulties in doing admin tasks in Thailand...(buying land, running a business etc.) Now it seems that they demand the Thai marriage certificate. So I'd like to know if any one knows what legal implications exist for the Thai wife. We have large amounts of land and financial interests (in her name of course), and need to know if these and future dealings can be complicated by having a farang hubby. (Thought I'd ask here, before consulting a Thai lawyer... LOL)!

Furthermore, what paperwork do I have to give to the Aussie embassy to initiate this inane notification of marriage certificate?

Lot's of questions over what would generally be a fairly simple task made famously difficult and incoherent by the Thai powers that be.

Any clues, suggestions advice would be well appreciated!

You are already married, only the Thai government doesn't have a record of it. So recording it doesn't change anything, only that the government now officially knows of the marriage.

There are no problems with that, in the past a Thai woman married to a foreigner couldn't own land, but that is no longer the case.

What you have to do is go to your embassy and have the marriage certificate certified, (your embassy website should have more info on that) next have it translated into Thai and then certified again by the Thai Foreign Ministry, Cosular Department. Next you go to any amphur the have the foreign marriage recorded and get a khor rhor 22 form, which immigration wants to see for the extension of stay. You can use any amphur.

Years ago there was an issue with land ownership for the Thai wife of a foreigner but that is no longer the case. However, if the land department knows that she is married to a foreigner, any new registrations on land title deeds will need to be accompanied by a form signed by you stating essentially that this land belongs entirely to your wife and you will make no future claim on it or proceeds from it.

Apart from this there are no legal implications for your wife in being married to a foreigner though occasionally you may come across some dinosaur in a govt office/bank etc that thinks there is. If you want to avoid that, your wife doesn't need to change her surname to yours. I'm also pretty sure that there is no longer any requirement for her ID card status to change from single to married but stand to be corrected on that.

Whether marriage certificate will need to be certified at your embassy (if possible) will depend upon the Amphoe you go to. If you have the original document from Australia you may not have any problem.

The translation company you use can do the certification at the MFA for a small additional fee which can save a lot of time expense of trips to the MFA.

Thanks a million for the advice from all. My wife has a concern that laws can change, and like the governments in Thailand, laws may change quite rapidly and extraordinarily... but we are not to know this unless we have a reliable crystal ball!

Do you happen to know if this embassy/MFA dealing can be done by me alone, or does in require both hubby and wife. (I'm guessing the latter), We are busy people with kids at school, sick grandparents and all the normal pressures of family life... and we are on Koh Phangan coming in to monsoon, so group travel at this moment is a bit of a pain in the arse... but as we all know, that's the modis operendi of Thai bureaucracy! LOL.)

Other than that, it doesn't sound too tricky.

If you go to the embassy for certification then you would be the one to go.

For translation it could be either one of you and might not even require any traveling at at all if they do the MFA part for you. You could possibly even do it by EMS using a translation service in Bangkok. Here is a list of translators from US embassy website http://bangkok.usemb...otographers.pdf you could contact.

I think I would get the translation and MFA certification done and then try doing the registration at the local Amphoe before making the trip to the embassy.

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by ubonjoe

If you go to the embassy for certification then you would be the one to go.

For translation it could be either one of you and might not even require any traveling at at all if they do the MFA part for you. You could possibly even do it by EMS using a translation service in Bangkok. Here is a list of translators from US embassy website http://bangkok.usemb...otographers.pdf you could contact.

I think I would get the translation and MFA certification done and then try doing the registration at the local Amphoe before making the trip to the embassy.

Doesn't the MFA certification of the translation also involve them checking that the certified copy from the embassy is genuine i.e. notarised by a competent consular officer? In which case you can't omit the embassy visit. That has been my understanding but of course I could be wrong.

The MFA certification is for the translation and nothing more.

The certification by the embassy is that it is a real document not just certifying the copy. Some embassies will not certify a document (IE: US) or it may require a great deal of time.

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by ubonjoe

Actually the MFA does confirm signature of Consular Officer from my understanding - thus making it a legal document in Thailand.

Thanks a million for the advice from all. My wife has a concern that laws can change, and like the governments in Thailand, laws may change quite rapidly and extraordinarily... but we are not to know this unless we have a reliable crystal ball!

Do you happen to know if this embassy/MFA dealing can be done by me alone, or does in require both hubby and wife. (I'm guessing the latter), We are busy people with kids at school, sick grandparents and all the normal pressures of family life... and we are on Koh Phangan coming in to monsoon, so group travel at this moment is a bit of a pain in the arse... but as we all know, that's the modis operendi of Thai bureaucracy! LOL.)

Other than that, it doesn't sound too tricky.

I think you've got to get your head around a few things:

- As I deal with it fairly regularly (the Thai bureacracy), I can genuinely say it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

- As for the laws changing on a whim - not a chance. If you map the evolution of the laws on all things dealing with the rights of Thai's married to foreigners, you'll see that they have only gone in one direction - down the path of liberalisation. This includes

1992 - scrapping of the loss of Thai citizenship when marrying a foreigner, as well as retrospectively returning it to those who had lost it, allowing ongoing dual citizenship.

1999 - declaring unconsitutional the ban on foreign spouses owning land

2000's - allowing all Thai spouses to maintain their maiden names

As others have said, you are already married, so you can't get married twice. But acknowledging the fact in Thailand (eg via your wife putting 'Mrs' on her ID card) isn't going to complicate things. It means you are out in the open, and the paperwork can be predicable from here on in.

Actually the MFA does confirm signature of Consular Officer from my understanding - thus making it a legal document in Thailand.

That might apply in the case of a document such as the affirmation of permit to marry.

But most certifications are of a translated document. I have had certifications done by the MFA and the attached document to the translation was only a copy of the original.

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by ubonjoe

Thanks a million for the advice from all. My wife has a concern that laws can change, and like the governments in Thailand, laws may change quite rapidly and extraordinarily... but we are not to know this unless we have a reliable crystal ball!

Do you happen to know if this embassy/MFA dealing can be done by me alone, or does in require both hubby and wife. (I'm guessing the latter), We are busy people with kids at school, sick grandparents and all the normal pressures of family life... and we are on Koh Phangan coming in to monsoon, so group travel at this moment is a bit of a pain in the arse... but as we all know, that's the modis operendi of Thai bureaucracy! LOL.)

Other than that, it doesn't sound too tricky.

I think you've got to get your head around a few things:

- As I deal with it fairly regularly (the Thai bureacracy), I can genuinely say it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

- As for the laws changing on a whim - not a chance. If you map the evolution of the laws on all things dealing with the rights of Thai's married to foreigners, you'll see that they have only gone in one direction - down the path of liberalisation. This includes

1992 - scrapping of the loss of Thai citizenship when marrying a foreigner, as well as retrospectively returning it to those who had lost it, allowing ongoing dual citizenship.

1999 - declaring unconsitutional the ban on foreign spouses owning land

2000's - allowing all Thai spouses to maintain their maiden names

As others have said, you are already married, so you can't get married twice. But acknowledging the fact in Thailand (eg via your wife putting 'Mrs' on her ID card) isn't going to complicate things. It means you are out in the open, and the paperwork can be predicable from here on in.

Thanks Samran, I've done a lot of business with Thai officialdom too, and know the routine well, I was joking a bit with the jibes, (but there is a lot of red tape, and odd nuances of Thai law... for example, off topic, but interestingly, on my son's Thai birth certificate they misspelt the transliteration of his western name (Jack), they spelt it more like Jake, which is not a big deal really, so we didn't worry... but the only way to change it was to select a new, different and 100% Thai name. This is true, and is obviously a laughable situation... but anyway, back to the marriage business!)

Our concern is that every time we do some land business, (which is our business), I'll have to sign a declaration stating that the proceeds have not, nor will not find themselves in foreign hands. Ok, that's fair enough... unless I'm ten thousand kms away doing other stuff, and then the wife is powerless to proceed without this declaration. Is this correct?

As for the liberalisation of the laws, I agree with you that things are changing for the better...

Sincere thanks for your input.

The declaration is a standard form from what I have seen. I don't think it would be a problem for you sign one in advance to cover the time you are absent.

... No stress.

Otherwise have your wife sign power of attorney forms specifically outlining the envisaged situation. Keep a stack of them for when needed.

Thanks guys.

1992 - scrapping of the loss of Thai citizenship when marrying a foreigner, as well as retrospectively returning it to those who had lost it, allowing ongoing dual citizenship.

1999 - declaring unconsitutional the ban on foreign spouses owning land

2000's - allowing all Thai spouses to maintain their maiden names

I'd love to find - and keep - the different references you would have for these laws/rules, either in Thai or in English.

Thanks

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by DTiger

If you go to the embassy for certification then you would be the one to go.

For translation it could be either one of you and might not even require any traveling at at all if they do the MFA part for you. You could possibly even do it by EMS using a translation service in Bangkok. Here is a list of translators from US embassy website http://bangkok.usemb...otographers.pdf you could contact.

I think I would get the translation and MFA certification done and then try doing the registration at the local Amphoe before making the trip to the embassy.

So you'd say Ubonjoe that I alone could do the embassy and MFA tasks in the absence of my wife? I don't want to put the pressure on you to emphatically say yay or nay..., but if I could do it alone and leave the wife to look after things at home it'd be a lot simpler. Guess I'll call the embassy on Monday... but the suspense is killing me! LOL

...

Our concern is that every time we do some land business, (which is our business), I'll have to sign a declaration stating that the proceeds have not, nor will not find themselves in foreign hands. Ok, that's fair enough... unless I'm ten thousand kms away doing other stuff, and then the wife is powerless to proceed without this declaration. Is this correct?...

The completed form can be mailed to you, you go to a Thai consulate to get your signature on it certified, then you mail the form back to your wife.

If you go to the embassy for certification then you would be the one to go.

For translation it could be either one of you and might not even require any traveling at at all if they do the MFA part for you. You could possibly even do it by EMS using a translation service in Bangkok. Here is a list of translators from US embassy website http://bangkok.usemb...otographers.pdf you could contact.

I think I would get the translation and MFA certification done and then try doing the registration at the local Amphoe before making the trip to the embassy.

So you'd say Ubonjoe that I alone could do the embassy and MFA tasks in the absence of my wife? I don't want to put the pressure on you to emphatically say yay or nay..., but if I could do it alone and leave the wife to look after things at home it'd be a lot simpler. Guess I'll call the embassy on Monday... but the suspense is killing me! LOL

I see no reason for your wife to be with you. All you are doing is having a document certified and translated which does not require any signatures or procedures.