Lessons In Democracy That Thailand Can Learn From The U S

[DocN]

What a nonsense article.

George Bush one an election on a minority vote before the 9/11 It was only the second election he won on fear mongering..The reason he won an election with a minority of votes is because the United States is not a democracy any more than Thailand is. It is a Rebublic in a democracy Al Gore would have been the president and the U. S. would have been more concerned with enviormental needs that can have a much farther reaching effect on all of humanity.

Here in Thailand we use the Parlamentary system which does not need a majority of the voters to rule. It so happens that the present government does have a majority of the votes. But their number of seats is way out of proportion o the votes they got.

The article stated

"It is only in "Amazing Thailand" that factions such as yellow shirts and now Pitak Siam continue to believe that the current Pheu Thai-led government is not a legitimately elected governmen"

That is not at all what they are saying they are saying that it is a no good government. The author knows that to be true but being a PT Red Shirt sympathizer it was the only way he could think of to defend his interests.

I like the list of credits for the author.

"Dr Kuldep Nagi is a Fulbright Fellow working at the Graduate School of eLearning (GSeL), Assumption University, Bangkok. He can be contacted at: DrKuldeep [at] Live.com."

Just more proof that academics should stay out of politics they know nothing about it.

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much. The Electoral College is an outdated thing that should be done away with if for no other reason than most people whether American or other do not understand. In this case it would have made no difference but it still needs to be stopped as it skews the figures and gives the wrong impression on how voting really was. When you look at the popular vote in the USA there is some serious facts, many states were well over 60% against Obama(I hesitate to say for Romney) and some well over 70%. In many counties in certain states over 80% against Obama and I believe some counties were right at 90% against Obama. The states that did go for Obama the % was closer than states that voted against Obama. If you look at the red vs blue map state wise or county wise for many states I believe it shows a disturbing trend of turmoil in the US elections in basic values. Also look at the Republican states to see what is produced in these states and look at the Democratic states to see the same. I make no judgement either way but looking at real % and facts it puts lots of questions in my mind and shows the internal problems in the USA that seem to linger on and appear to have a good chance to increase.

This discussion is futile!

It is the system you got- live with it!

3% more of the votes = victory!

Periode!

There was an election, where 600 votes decided for a president, if I remember correctly and if (in this stupid system) it boils down to that, so be it!

Would you also be showing this kind of statistics, if Romney would have won?

It's the same useless discussion like in Thailand: all parties try to buy votes, some voters cash in even on both sides, one side gets the majority...end of story!

Most of the commentators, who now claim that the PT didn't win the majority and make up irrelevant and rather absurd equasions, would have had no problem, if their specific candidate would have won with exactly the same measures and majorities.

Obama and the PT won the race in their specific systems- end of story!

Do I think that makes Thailand a democracy?

Hell no!

Does it make the USA a democracy? Yes it does, because there is more to "democracy" than checking a box every 4 or 5 years and the USA delivers at that, Thailand does not.

Can Thailand learn from the US?

Sure, because almost any democracy is better than the one in Thailand

Should they learn from someone else?

Yes, please!

Will they?

The day, pigs will fly!

[Pimay1]

What a nonsense article.

George Bush one an election on a minority vote before the 9/11 It was only the second election he won on fear mongering..The reason he won an election with a minority of votes is because the United States is not a democracy any more than Thailand is. It is a Rebublic in a democracy Al Gore would have been the president and the U. S. would have been more concerned with enviormental needs that can have a much farther reaching effect on all of humanity.

Here in Thailand we use the Parlamentary system which does not need a majority of the voters to rule. It so happens that the present government does have a majority of the votes. But their number of seats is way out of proportion o the votes they got.

The article stated

"It is only in "Amazing Thailand" that factions such as yellow shirts and now Pitak Siam continue to believe that the current Pheu Thai-led government is not a legitimately elected governmen"

That is not at all what they are saying they are saying that it is a no good government. The author knows that to be true but being a PT Red Shirt sympathizer it was the only way he could think of to defend his interests.

I like the list of credits for the author.

"Dr Kuldep Nagi is a Fulbright Fellow working at the Graduate School of eLearning (GSeL), Assumption University, Bangkok. He can be contacted at: DrKuldeep [at] Live.com."

Just more proof that academics should stay out of politics they know nothing about it.

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much. The Electoral College is an outdated thing that should be done away with if for no other reason than most people whether American or other do not understand. In this case it would have made no difference but it still needs to be stopped as it skews the figures and gives the wrong impression on how voting really was. When you look at the popular vote in the USA there is some serious facts, many states were well over 60% against Obama(I hesitate to say for Romney) and some well over 70%. In many counties in certain states over 80% against Obama and I believe some counties were right at 90% against Obama. The states that did go for Obama the % was closer than states that voted against Obama. If you look at the red vs blue map state wise or county wise for many states I believe it shows a disturbing trend of turmoil in the US elections in basic values. Also look at the Republican states to see what is produced in these states and look at the Democratic states to see the same. I make no judgement either way but looking at real % and facts it puts lots of questions in my mind and shows the internal problems in the USA that seem to linger on and appear to have a good chance to increase.

This discussion is futile!

It is the system you got- live with it!

3% more of the votes = victory!

Periode!

There was an election, where 600 votes decided for a president, if I remember correctly and if (in this stupid system) it boils down to that, so be it!

Would you also be showing this kind of statistics, if Romney would have won?

It's the same useless discussion like in Thailand: all parties try to buy votes, some voters cash in even on both sides, one side gets the majority...end of story!

Most of the commentators, who now claim that the PT didn't win the majority and make up irrelevant and rather absurd equasions, would have had no problem, if their specific candidate would have won with exactly the same measures and majorities.

Obama and the PT won the race in their specific systems- end of story!

Do I think that makes Thailand a democracy?

Hell no!

Does it make the USA a democracy? Yes it does, because there is more to "democracy" than checking a box every 4 or 5 years and the USA delivers at that, Thailand does not.

Can Thailand learn from the US?

Sure, because almost any democracy is better than the one in Thailand

Should they learn from someone else?

Yes, please!

Will they?

The day, pigs will fly!

Not bad DocN. As a U S citizen I have always advocated one man/woman one vote. The person with 50% + takes all.

[DocN]

What a nonsense article.

George Bush one an election on a minority vote before the 9/11 It was only the second election he won on fear mongering..The reason he won an election with a minority of votes is because the United States is not a democracy any more than Thailand is. It is a Rebublic in a democracy Al Gore would have been the president and the U. S. would have been more concerned with enviormental needs that can have a much farther reaching effect on all of humanity.

Here in Thailand we use the Parlamentary system which does not need a majority of the voters to rule. It so happens that the present government does have a majority of the votes. But their number of seats is way out of proportion o the votes they got.

The article stated

"It is only in "Amazing Thailand" that factions such as yellow shirts and now Pitak Siam continue to believe that the current Pheu Thai-led government is not a legitimately elected governmen"

That is not at all what they are saying they are saying that it is a no good government. The author knows that to be true but being a PT Red Shirt sympathizer it was the only way he could think of to defend his interests.

I like the list of credits for the author.

"Dr Kuldep Nagi is a Fulbright Fellow working at the Graduate School of eLearning (GSeL), Assumption University, Bangkok. He can be contacted at: DrKuldeep [at] Live.com."

Just more proof that academics should stay out of politics they know nothing about it.

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much. The Electoral College is an outdated thing that should be done away with if for no other reason than most people whether American or other do not understand. In this case it would have made no difference but it still needs to be stopped as it skews the figures and gives the wrong impression on how voting really was. When you look at the popular vote in the USA there is some serious facts, many states were well over 60% against Obama(I hesitate to say for Romney) and some well over 70%. In many counties in certain states over 80% against Obama and I believe some counties were right at 90% against Obama. The states that did go for Obama the % was closer than states that voted against Obama. If you look at the red vs blue map state wise or county wise for many states I believe it shows a disturbing trend of turmoil in the US elections in basic values. Also look at the Republican states to see what is produced in these states and look at the Democratic states to see the same. I make no judgement either way but looking at real % and facts it puts lots of questions in my mind and shows the internal problems in the USA that seem to linger on and appear to have a good chance to increase.

This discussion is futile!

It is the system you got- live with it!

3% more of the votes = victory!

Periode!

There was an election, where 600 votes decided for a president, if I remember correctly and if (in this stupid system) it boils down to that, so be it!

Would you also be showing this kind of statistics, if Romney would have won?

It's the same useless discussion like in Thailand: all parties try to buy votes, some voters cash in even on both sides, one side gets the majority...end of story!

Most of the commentators, who now claim that the PT didn't win the majority and make up irrelevant and rather absurd equasions, would have had no problem, if their specific candidate would have won with exactly the same measures and majorities.

Obama and the PT won the race in their specific systems- end of story!

Do I think that makes Thailand a democracy?

Hell no!

Does it make the USA a democracy? Yes it does, because there is more to "democracy" than checking a box every 4 or 5 years and the USA delivers at that, Thailand does not.

Can Thailand learn from the US?

Sure, because almost any democracy is better than the one in Thailand

Should they learn from someone else?

Yes, please!

Will they?

The day, pigs will fly!

Not bad DocN. As a U S citizen I have always advocated one man/woman one vote. The person with 50% + takes all.

As a German I have had that and it works fine for me.

I would also suggest to try out more than 2 parties. I know that somehow the US has that, but only two are really relevant.

If - from time to time- 2 parties would have to built coalitions and actively have to work together...things might move!

[Markaew]

The US is a Representative Democracy, not a Republic.

The only kink in that definition is the Electoral College- which is a weird and flawed invention- but still doesn't take us out of By The People territory.

A representative democracy is the definition of a republic.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Markaew

[risky11]

The US is a Representative Democracy, not a Republic.

The only kink in that definition is the Electoral College- which is a weird and flawed invention- but still doesn't take us out of By The People territory.

You are wrong, bro. The USA was a Federal Republic. It is now a Marxist Police State. Furthermore, Democracy always devolves into Mobocracy and it's death is as violent as it's life is short. The USA is in it's death throes. Productive citizens are fleeing. Even illegal immigrants are "making a run for the border" before they close it. The rest are demanding secession from DC....

Edited November 20, 2012 by risky11

[ttelise]

There is good and bad with system in US just as in Thailand or any other country. A prudent and objective approach is to focus on that what works and see if that fits within or could work within the Thai system.

Alot of the above comments seem more driven by personal issues, personal failures or personal grievances than reality in the US.

Contrary to statements above, we are not remotely similar to Greece or heading down Greece's path. I posted back in July about the factors leading to the issues Greece that go back to Greece's entrance into the EEC back in 1981.

While not perfect, US has the best democratic process for electing government than any other country including the balance of power in senate and house. Nothing is perfect, but people still elect. The political divide in America right now in America is driven more by race, fear and religion than economic interest. The very wealthy try to protect their wealth by using religion, fear and race to motivate the Republican base most of which then vote for a candidate whose policies does absolutely nothing for their economic interests. At least minorities, even if voting on basis if race, are voting for a candidate that has their economic interests at heart unlike many Republicans who get motivated if told their guns are going to taken away or abortion laws are at issue.

That brings home next point, US economy is actually quiet well and heading in right direction much to the suregrin of many on here. The doom and gloom in US primarily comes from Republican party who utilize FEAR and worry to stimulate the conservative base. QE3 is actually covering the last CMO liquidity and reserve crisis for our banks and banking reserves are very healthy now thanks to QE3 they will stay that way. This banking stability will result in the next 6 or so months opening of consumer credit which will once again restart

[ttelise]

There is good and bad with system in US just as in Thailand or any other country. A prudent and objective approach is to focus on that which works and see if that fits within or could work within the Thai system.

Alot of the above comments seem more driven by personal issues, personal failures or personal grievances than reality in the US.

Contrary to above, we are not remotely similar to Greece or heading down Greece's path. I posted back in July the factors leading to the issues in Greece that go back to Greece's entrance into the EEC back in 1981. Understand Greece and you will see not same.

While not perfect, US has the best democratic process including the balance of power in senate and house. Nothing is perfect, but people still elect. The political divide in America is driven more by race, fear and religion than economic interests. The very wealthy try to protect their wealth by using religion, fear and race to motivate the Republican base most of which then vote for a candidate whose policies does absolutely nothing to promote their economic interests. At least minorities, even if voting on basis of race, are voting for a candidate that promotes their economic interests unlike many Republicans who get motivated if told their guns are going to taken away or abortion laws are at issue.

US economy is actually quiet well and heading in right direction. The doom and gloom in US primarily comes from Republican party who utilize FEAR and worry to stimulate the conservative base.

QE3 is actually covering the last CMO liquidity and reserve crisis for our banks. Banking reserves are healthy now and thanks to QE3 reserves will stay that way.

This banking stability will result in the opening of consumer credit which will once again restart our economy and stabilize housing industry. This simply could not be accomplished while banks such as BofA were having to reserve, in late 2011 through 2012, as much as a $ 100,000,00,000 to deal with CMO defaults from debt that got on the books between 2001 - 2007.

A few cities may have been hit hard, but for the most part and where I live and have been recently, I see people thriving, strong tourism numbers and indications of a recovering and booming economy.

Edited November 20, 2012 by ttelise

[DocN]

The US is a Representative Democracy, not a Republic.

The only kink in that definition is the Electoral College- which is a weird and flawed invention- but still doesn't take us out of By The People territory.

You are wrong, bro. The USA was a Federal Republic. It is now a Marxist Police State. Furthermore, Democracy always devolves into Mobocracy and it's death is as violent as it's life is short. The USA is in it's death throes. Productive citizens are fleeing. Even illegal immigrants are "making a run for the border" before they close it. The rest are demanding secession from DC....

Do you even have the slightest idea, what you are talking about or are you quoting from letters of your penpal Glen Beck?

Marxist police state?

Google "marxist" and "police state" and be so kind and point out to me, where the similarities are with the USA?

I know people who have lived in a police state eg the German Democratic Republic!

You sir, insult those people with your non- sense!

[spidermike007]

Dr Kuldep Nagi

Are you kidding? As an American, the LAST thing I'd want to see Thailand do is to adopt American styled 'democracy'. Keep the system you have in place. It may not be ideal but I fully understand why Thailand does things the way they do. There is nothing to get excited about with the re-election of Obama. I voted for him the first time around and was glad to see my country being able to elect a person of color to the White House. I was supportive of him initially until I ran out of reasons to support him and eventually voted against him. Obama used fear-mongering as well and played the race-card as well to win a second term. I've never seen an incompetent politician get so many free passes like Obama. People are so afraid to criticize him out of fear of being labelled a racist. The entitlement class has grown substantially in the United States and the number of freeloaders is growing and the number of job creators are decreasing.

The US debt is over $16TRILLION! ! !

There has always been an under-class of derelicts in the US that never participated in elections. Obama reached out to them with promises of free stuff; mobile phones, money, etc. Why on earth would Thailand want to copy that model? When I went to the polls in 2008, I saw all sorts of crack addicts and winos at the voting booth. Sure there were a lot of party-line liberal Democratic voters that voted for Obama but they were not the ones that put Obama over the top. It was the under-class that normally do not vote and the motivating factor that drove them to the polls was the expectation of free handouts. I love the US but my country is not a shining example of democracy and certainly nothing Thailand should copy.

Yes, he has been an utter failure. Many cannot, or will not see it. He is a fabricated construct, and his words, ideals, agenda, and platform could not be further from his actions, what he has done, or what he has failed to do, in the past 4 years. Do not even give me the nonsense about a gridlocked congress. That is what leadership is all about, if one has that ability, which Blundering Barry Obama does not! Makes you wonder. I too am a lifelong democrat, and disappointment cannot even begin to capture what I feel. Both the federal government, and the security apparatus have grown enormously under this guy, who appears to be a fascist dressed in liberal's clothing.

[manfrommanteo]

The US is a Representative Democracy, not a Republic.

The only kink in that definition is the Electoral College- which is a weird and flawed invention- but still doesn't take us out of By The People territory.

You should read the Founding Documents of the United States. It's not what you say it is. I'll repeat myself, nowhere in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence, is the word Democracy used. However, Republic is. You either don't know what you're talking about, or you are in denial, but either way, the United States is not a Democracy. Representative government, yes. But the difference between Democracies and Republics is simple: Democracies are ruled by majority, Republics are ruled by law. Majority rule never turns out good in the end, That is evidenced now in the United States and other countries around the world. If the United States continues down this hellish path of "democracy", it will die a death which will harm not just it's citizens. Freedom comes once to a people. I'll fight for freedom.

Now, before someone who has no idea about me says that I'm some Republican or whatever...stop. I'm not. I'm a Liberty loving, freedom loving individual who realizes that, in America, BOTH Republican and Democrat Parties are to blame. They both have sold out our country to special interest groups in return for money and power. Woe unto our children's children and the cause of Freedom and Liberty.

Edited November 20, 2012 by manfrommanteo

[hellodolly]

What a nonsense article.

George Bush one an election on a minority vote before the 9/11 It was only the second election he won on fear mongering..The reason he won an election with a minority of votes is because the United States is not a democracy any more than Thailand is. It is a Rebublic in a democracy Al Gore would have been the president and the U. S. would have been more concerned with enviormental needs that can have a much farther reaching effect on all of humanity.

Here in Thailand we use the Parlamentary system which does not need a majority of the voters to rule. It so happens that the present government does have a majority of the votes. But their number of seats is way out of proportion o the votes they got.

The article stated

"It is only in "Amazing Thailand" that factions such as yellow shirts and now Pitak Siam continue to believe that the current Pheu Thai-led government is not a legitimately elected governmen"

That is not at all what they are saying they are saying that it is a no good government. The author knows that to be true but being a PT Red Shirt sympathizer it was the only way he could think of to defend his interests.

I like the list of credits for the author.

"Dr Kuldep Nagi is a Fulbright Fellow working at the Graduate School of eLearning (GSeL), Assumption University, Bangkok. He can be contacted at: DrKuldeep [at] Live.com."

Just more proof that academics should stay out of politics they know nothing about it.

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much. The Electoral College is an outdated thing that should be done away with if for no other reason than most people whether American or other do not understand. In this case it would have made no difference but it still needs to be stopped as it skews the figures and gives the wrong impression on how voting really was. When you look at the popular vote in the USA there is some serious facts, many states were well over 60% against Obama(I hesitate to say for Romney) and some well over 70%. In many counties in certain states over 80% against Obama and I believe some counties were right at 90% against Obama. The states that did go for Obama the % was closer than states that voted against Obama. If you look at the red vs blue map state wise or county wise for many states I believe it shows a disturbing trend of turmoil in the US elections in basic values. Also look at the Republican states to see what is produced in these states and look at the Democratic states to see the same. I make no judgement either way but looking at real % and facts it puts lots of questions in my mind and shows the internal problems in the USA that seem to linger on and appear to have a good chance to increase.

This discussion is futile!

It is the system you got- live with it!

3% more of the votes = victory!

Periode!

There was an election, where 600 votes decided for a president, if I remember correctly and if (in this stupid system) it boils down to that, so be it!

Would you also be showing this kind of statistics, if Romney would have won?

It's the same useless discussion like in Thailand: all parties try to buy votes, some voters cash in even on both sides, one side gets the majority...end of story!

Most of the commentators, who now claim that the PT didn't win the majority and make up irrelevant and rather absurd equasions, would have had no problem, if their specific candidate would have won with exactly the same measures and majorities.

Obama and the PT won the race in their specific systems- end of story!

Do I think that makes Thailand a democracy?

Hell no!

Does it make the USA a democracy? Yes it does, because there is more to "democracy" than checking a box every 4 or 5 years and the USA delivers at that, Thailand does not.

Can Thailand learn from the US?

Sure, because almost any democracy is better than the one in Thailand

Should they learn from someone else?

Yes, please!

Will they?

The day, pigs will fly!

Not bad DocN. As a U S citizen I have always advocated one man/woman one vote. The person with 50% + takes all.

My feelings exactly. I find it hard to listen to some one expound on how great a system is when they don't even know how much time between there presidential elections. They have Presidential elections every 4 years. If a President dies in office they have a Vice President to take over and fill out the 4 years if he dies they have a list of successors who can automatically take over the reigns of power from his predecessors. That is why they at all times have one on that list in the white house in case all others died at once.

So far the people who have responded to the Florida vote being a difference of only 600 Do not understand that was only in Florida and under the republic the majority do not necessarily win.

Gore had a much larger percentage of voters nation wide than did Bush.

Tongue in cheek I might mention that Thailand already knows how to close there mind to to opposition. That goes both ways.

Unless Thailand wishes to pursue a Democratic type of government and abandon the Parliamentary one there is little they can learn from the states system.

[Hugo6]

What a nonsense article.

George Bush one an election on a minority vote before the 9/11 It was only the second election he won on fear mongering..The reason he won an election with a minority of votes is because the United States is not a democracy any more than Thailand is. It is a Rebublic in a democracy Al Gore would have been the president and the U. S. would have been more concerned with enviormental needs that can have a much farther reaching effect on all of humanity.

Here in Thailand we use the Parlamentary system which does not need a majority of the voters to rule. It so happens that the present government does have a majority of the votes. But their number of seats is way out of proportion o the votes they got.

The article stated

"It is only in "Amazing Thailand" that factions such as yellow shirts and now Pitak Siam continue to believe that the current Pheu Thai-led government is not a legitimately elected governmen"

That is not at all what they are saying they are saying that it is a no good government. The author knows that to be true but being a PT Red Shirt sympathizer it was the only way he could think of to defend his interests.

I like the list of credits for the author.

"Dr Kuldep Nagi is a Fulbright Fellow working at the Graduate School of eLearning (GSeL), Assumption University, Bangkok. He can be contacted at: DrKuldeep [at] Live.com."

Just more proof that academics should stay out of politics they know nothing about it.

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much. The Electoral College is an outdated thing that should be done away with if for no other reason than most people whether American or other do not understand. In this case it would have made no difference but it still needs to be stopped as it skews the figures and gives the wrong impression on how voting really was. When you look at the popular vote in the USA there is some serious facts, many states were well over 60% against Obama(I hesitate to say for Romney) and some well over 70%. In many counties in certain states over 80% against Obama and I believe some counties were right at 90% against Obama. The states that did go for Obama the % was closer than states that voted against Obama. If you look at the red vs blue map state wise or county wise for many states I believe it shows a disturbing trend of turmoil in the US elections in basic values. Also look at the Republican states to see what is produced in these states and look at the Democratic states to see the same. I make no judgement either way but looking at real % and facts it puts lots of questions in my mind and shows the internal problems in the USA that seem to linger on and appear to have a good chance to increase.

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much.

dude, you're just spewing nonsense here.

btw, obama's margin of victory in the popular vote was greater that that of Bush in 2004.

[Hugo6]

Dr Kuldep Nagi

Are you kidding? As an American, the LAST thing I'd want to see Thailand do is to adopt American styled 'democracy'. Keep the system you have in place. It may not be ideal but I fully understand why Thailand does things the way they do. There is nothing to get excited about with the re-election of Obama. I voted for him the first time around and was glad to see my country being able to elect a person of color to the White House. I was supportive of him initially until I ran out of reasons to support him and eventually voted against him. Obama used fear-mongering as well and played the race-card as well to win a second term. I've never seen an incompetent politician get so many free passes like Obama. People are so afraid to criticize him out of fear of being labelled a racist. The entitlement class has grown substantially in the United States and the number of freeloaders is growing and the number of job creators are decreasing.

The US debt is over $16TRILLION! ! !

There has always been an under-class of derelicts in the US that never participated in elections. Obama reached out to them with promises of free stuff; mobile phones, money, etc. Why on earth would Thailand want to copy that model? When I went to the polls in 2008, I saw all sorts of crack addicts and winos at the voting booth. Sure there were a lot of party-line liberal Democratic voters that voted for Obama but they were not the ones that put Obama over the top. It was the under-class that normally do not vote and the motivating factor that drove them to the polls was the expectation of free handouts. I love the US but my country is not a shining example of democracy and certainly nothing Thailand should copy.

Yes, he has been an utter failure. Many cannot, or will not see it. He is a fabricated construct, and his words, ideals, agenda, and platform could not be further from his actions, what he has done, or what he has failed to do, in the past 4 years. Do not even give me the nonsense about a gridlocked congress. That is what leadership is all about, if one has that ability, which Blundering Barry Obama does not! Makes you wonder. I too am a lifelong democrat, and disappointment cannot even begin to capture what I feel. Both the federal government, and the security apparatus have grown enormously under this guy, who appears to be a fascist dressed in liberal's clothing.

yeah right - his words, ideals and agenda had nothing to do with equal pay for women, ending the wars, heath care, yadayadayada.

You guys are just in denial of reality.

[TongueThaied]

Excuse me Dr. Nagi. GW Bush was elected in Nov 2000 the first time. The 19 renegades who attacked this country met their just demise as well as bin laden, laid to not rest.. agree, there should have been more time before US forces lit the places up. I think the WMD's were thrown down a gas well or warehoused in a nearby cave or country, just my opinion. planning to read book 'The Road to 9/11' and get some more facts in order for myself. the ideas about 72 virgins and jihad is the real crock!

as thailand circles the wagons, other ASEAN nations have begun to make laps around 'the chaos'. The real problem is not polit corr, but an entrenched mindset of elitism among a miority populus who are considered 'educated'. meanwhile the majority 'uneducated' are looked down upon and considered not worthy of 'voting' or being bought off instead of being solicited with a small forest of campaign mail. US system is far from perfect, but our culture seeks mutual respect and equality. not an easy row to plough. granted, 30% + of Americans have not finished high school and 50% + do not show up at the polls. almost every American seems tired of the two peckered bipartisan pony show, wheras Thailand is mounted atop a buck'n bronco!

Wow, you swallowed the Bush lies? Unbelievable! But then you also said he was elected, when in fact he was chosen by the five corrupt Republican appointees on the US Supreme Court. I say corrupt, because under US law, all elections are a state law matter and the case should have gone first to the Florida Supreme Court, but the federal court usurped it.

Did it ever occur to you that the 19 renegades would never have spent any time attacking anything on US soil if the US wasn't over on THEIR turf raising hell in its insatiable thirst for oil? Uncle Sam needs to learn to keep his dick in his pants. The only reason the internal combustion engine was not replaced years ago is because it is the main generator of wealth and power for Big Oil.

It's people like you Thaibourbon that made the US the mess it is today. Get a grip. Go study with Dr. Nagi; he could teach you a thing or two about your own country. George Bush's intense politics of fear campaign (and trampling the constitution) is one of the reasons I live here now. I just couldn't stand it anymore.

Edited November 20, 2012 by TongueThaied

[ttelise]

Excuse me Dr. Nagi. GW Bush was elected in Nov 2000 the first time. The 19 renegades who attacked this country met their just demise as well as bin laden, laid to not rest.. agree, there should have been more time before US forces lit the places up. I think the WMD's were thrown down a gas well or warehoused in a nearby cave or country, just my opinion. planning to read book 'The Road to 9/11' and get some more facts in order for myself. the ideas about 72 virgins and jihad is the real crock!

as thailand circles the wagons, other ASEAN nations have begun to make laps around 'the chaos'. The real problem is not polit corr, but an entrenched mindset of elitism among a miority populus who are considered 'educated'. meanwhile the majority 'uneducated' are looked down upon and considered not worthy of 'voting' or being bought off instead of being solicited with a small forest of campaign mail. US system is far from perfect, but our culture seeks mutual respect and equality. not an easy row to plough. granted, 30% + of Americans have not finished high school and 50% + do not show up at the polls. almost every American seems tired of the two peckered bipartisan pony show, wheras Thailand is mounted atop a buck'n bronco!

Wow, you swallowed the Bush lies? Unbelievable! But then you also said he was elected, when in fact he was chosen by the five corrupt Republican appointees on the US Supreme Court. I say corrupt, because under US law, all elections are a state law matter and the case should have gone first to the Florida Supreme Court, but the federal court usurped it.

Did it ever occur to you that the 19 renegades would never have spent any time attacking anything on US soil if the US wasn't over on THEIR turf raising hell in its insatiable thirst for oil? Uncle Sam needs to learn to keep his dick in his pants. The only reason the internal combustion engine was not replaced years ago is because it is the main generator of wealth and power for Big Oil.

It's people like you Thaibourbon that made the US the mess it is today. Get a grip. Go study with Dr. Nagi; he could teach you a thing or two about your own country. George Bush's intense politics of fear campaign (and trampling the constitution) is one of the reasons I live here now. I just couldn't stand it anymore.

No doubt on that last paragraph. Forget Republicans or Democrats. Bush was like the class clown or class retard that a bunch of dishonest thugs (Rove, Chenney et al.) put up as President to make a some people a whole lot of money.

[LarryBird]

He's not saying the US is perfect, he's simply saying Thailand can learn from it. Thailand needs people like this advocating for change.

Honestly, you people are insane. Most of the logic on here goes like this :

A: 'The sky is blue.'

B: '2+2 = 4, therefore the sky is not blue, you are so stupid!!'

[123thaibourbon]

'we must cultivate our own garden' Candide 1760 I enjoyed all the replies, truthfully this is like comparing apples & durians... US constitution (only amended) protects the right of each person against mob rule, pac's, sig's or what have you. very few other countries compare to the freedoms found in the US to speak, write, gather, enterprise, think or what have you... the US system should continue to evolve for the better and influence others mostly by default. little wonder, those who cling to the status quo are upset to say the least and do anything to discredit such a powerful system. as people are more globally connected, support for democracies will grow much like the early morning queue-jumps on Wireless Road at Satantoot Saharat America! Happy ThanksGiving

Edited November 21, 2012 by metisdead
: Font

[looping]

How about the fact that there was no PUBLIC DEBATE during the election campaign???

I remember that YL said she wasn't available, citing her inexperience as a politician! and saying that she was too busy and there will be plenty of time after the election for debates.

Democracy in action, or maybe inaction?

She knew that in a debate, Abhisit would have eaten her alive, exposed her as an imposter and gone on to win the election same as when her older brother refused a debate with Abhisit, for the same reason.

Maybe public debates is an area which could be addressed on the road to some kind of system which would resemble democracy???

Such a shame that the Thai people continue to be led by such incompetents.

[DocN]

How about the fact that there was no PUBLIC DEBATE during the election campaign???

I remember that YL said she wasn't available, citing her inexperience as a politician! and saying that she was too busy and there will be plenty of time after the election for debates.

Democracy in action, or maybe inaction?

She knew that in a debate, Abhisit would have eaten her alive, exposed her as an imposter and gone on to win the election same as when her older brother refused a debate with Abhisit, for the same reason.

Maybe public debates is an area which could be addressed on the road to some kind of system which would resemble democracy???

Such a shame that the Thai people continue to be led by such incompetents.

I don't know...would a debate in Thailand make any sense?

White lies, endless face saving and polite dancing around each other...?

I would love a debate (not that i would understand anything, but...) in any country.

But if you never gonna hear any real opinion anyhow....

[chiangmaikelly]

How about the fact that there was no PUBLIC DEBATE during the election campaign???

I remember that YL said she wasn't available, citing her inexperience as a politician! and saying that she was too busy and there will be plenty of time after the election for debates.

Democracy in action, or maybe inaction?

She knew that in a debate, Abhisit would have eaten her alive, exposed her as an imposter and gone on to win the election same as when her older brother refused a debate with Abhisit, for the same reason.

Maybe public debates is an area which could be addressed on the road to some kind of system which would resemble democracy???

Such a shame that the Thai people continue to be led by such incompetents.

I think if you read the opinion of the anti current Thai government posters who post here you will discover that Yingluck would have won despite any information passed to the electorate. So you are wrong, she would have won the election even though she lost the debate.

[nurofiend]

with the déjà vu situation atm, it probably won't be long before we are seeing headlines such as "Lessons in democracy that Thailand can learn from Myanmar"

Edited November 21, 2012 by nurofiend

[rubl]

How about the fact that there was no PUBLIC DEBATE during the election campaign???

I remember that YL said she wasn't available, citing her inexperience as a politician! and saying that she was too busy and there will be plenty of time after the election for debates.

Democracy in action, or maybe inaction?

She knew that in a debate, Abhisit would have eaten her alive, exposed her as an imposter and gone on to win the election same as when her older brother refused a debate with Abhisit, for the same reason.

Maybe public debates is an area which could be addressed on the road to some kind of system which would resemble democracy???

Such a shame that the Thai people continue to be led by such incompetents.

I think if you read the opinion of the anti current Thai government posters who post here you will discover that Yingluck would have won despite any information passed to the electorate. So you are wrong, she would have won the election even though she lost the debate.

Actually Ms Yingluck didn't win. She was a party list candidate. Begin of May, 2011 she told Pheu Thai she wanted to serve and after due process (of about a few days), they granted her wish and put her at the number 1 slot. Some have it k. Thaksin was elected, but obviously that's nonsense.

As for the OP and lessons to be learned from the USA, I'm afraid the 'money talks' part is already understood in Thailand

[DeepInTheForest]

"There are some important lessons to be learned from the American elections. To begin with, Thai politicians need to work towards creating a democratic framework where the losing side accepts defeat and allows the winning to side to pursue its economic agenda and policies. Instead of causing more traffic jams, the losing side should put all its effort into doing better in the next round."

Dr. Nagi, I don't know what universe you live in, but if you think that the US politicians of the losing side allow the winning side to pursue their economic agenda and policies, your are grossly mistaken.

If even a casual observer of the US system thinks that the minority party in the Congress does not "cause more traffic jams", well, I don't know what to say to you.

Edited November 21, 2012 by DeepInTheForest

[3SoiDogNight]

Dr Kuldep Nagi

Are you kidding? As an American, the LAST thing I'd want to see Thailand do is to adopt American styled 'democracy'. Keep the system you have in place. It may not be ideal but I fully understand why Thailand does things the way they do. There is nothing to get excited about with the re-election of Obama. I voted for him the first time around and was glad to see my country being able to elect a person of color to the White House. I was supportive of him initially until I ran out of reasons to support him and eventually voted against him. Obama used fear-mongering as well and played the race-card as well to win a second term. I've never seen an incompetent politician get so many free passes like Obama. People are so afraid to criticize him out of fear of being labelled a racist. The entitlement class has grown substantially in the United States and the number of freeloaders is growing and the number of job creators are decreasing.

The US debt is over $16TRILLION! ! !

There has always been an under-class of derelicts in the US that never participated in elections. Obama reached out to them with promises of free stuff; mobile phones, money, etc. Why on earth would Thailand want to copy that model? When I went to the polls in 2008, I saw all sorts of crack addicts and winos at the voting booth. Sure there were a lot of party-line liberal Democratic voters that voted for Obama but they were not the ones that put Obama over the top. It was the under-class that normally do not vote and the motivating factor that drove them to the polls was the expectation of free handouts. I love the US but my country is not a shining example of democracy and certainly nothing Thailand should copy.

Yes, he has been an utter failure. Many cannot, or will not see it. He is a fabricated construct, and his words, ideals, agenda, and platform could not be further from his actions, what he has done, or what he has failed to do, in the past 4 years. Do not even give me the nonsense about a gridlocked congress. That is what leadership is all about, if one has that ability, which Blundering Barry Obama does not! Makes you wonder. I too am a lifelong democrat, and disappointment cannot even begin to capture what I feel. Both the federal government, and the security apparatus have grown enormously under this guy, who appears to be a fascist dressed in liberal's clothing.

yeah right - his words, ideals and agenda had nothing to do with equal pay for women, ending the wars, heath care, yadayadayada.

You guys are just in denial of reality.

Yet he hasn't passed a single piece of legislation regarding women's pay (probably because there is laws already on the books that forbids this sort of discrimination), Obama hasn't ended (or won) any wars that he inherited from Bush and his health-care agenda is a joke because it doesn't cover everyone yet it will bring on new taxes, fees, penalties and fines. Hence the reason the IRS hired on 16,500 new agents the week after the Supreme Court ruled that Obamacare is simply a 'tax' which isn't unconstitutional.

So who is the one in "denial of reality"?

Edited November 21, 2012 by 3SoiDogNight

[DocN]

Dr Kuldep Nagi

Are you kidding? As an American, the LAST thing I'd want to see Thailand do is to adopt American styled 'democracy'. Keep the system you have in place. It may not be ideal but I fully understand why Thailand does things the way they do. There is nothing to get excited about with the re-election of Obama. I voted for him the first time around and was glad to see my country being able to elect a person of color to the White House. I was supportive of him initially until I ran out of reasons to support him and eventually voted against him. Obama used fear-mongering as well and played the race-card as well to win a second term. I've never seen an incompetent politician get so many free passes like Obama. People are so afraid to criticize him out of fear of being labelled a racist. The entitlement class has grown substantially in the United States and the number of freeloaders is growing and the number of job creators are decreasing.

The US debt is over $16TRILLION! ! !

There has always been an under-class of derelicts in the US that never participated in elections. Obama reached out to them with promises of free stuff; mobile phones, money, etc. Why on earth would Thailand want to copy that model? When I went to the polls in 2008, I saw all sorts of crack addicts and winos at the voting booth. Sure there were a lot of party-line liberal Democratic voters that voted for Obama but they were not the ones that put Obama over the top. It was the under-class that normally do not vote and the motivating factor that drove them to the polls was the expectation of free handouts. I love the US but my country is not a shining example of democracy and certainly nothing Thailand should copy.

Yes, he has been an utter failure. Many cannot, or will not see it. He is a fabricated construct, and his words, ideals, agenda, and platform could not be further from his actions, what he has done, or what he has failed to do, in the past 4 years. Do not even give me the nonsense about a gridlocked congress. That is what leadership is all about, if one has that ability, which Blundering Barry Obama does not! Makes you wonder. I too am a lifelong democrat, and disappointment cannot even begin to capture what I feel. Both the federal government, and the security apparatus have grown enormously under this guy, who appears to be a fascist dressed in liberal's clothing.

yeah right - his words, ideals and agenda had nothing to do with equal pay for women, ending the wars, heath care, yadayadayada.

You guys are just in denial of reality.

Yet he hasn't passed a single piece of legislation regarding women's pay (probably because there is laws already on the books that forbids this sort of discrimination), Obama hasn't ended (or won) any wars that he inherited from Bush and his health-care agenda is a joke because it doesn't cover everyone yet it will bring on new taxes, fees, penalties and fines. Hence the reason the IRS hired on 16,500 new agents the week after the Supreme Court ruled that Obamacare is simply a 'tax' which isn't unconstitutional.

So who is the one in "denial of reality"?

You and Fox News!

[3SoiDogNight]

The Fox news accusations are getting old. Time to come up with something more original. Perhaps better informing yourselves would be a good start.

[DocN]

The Fox news accusations are getting old. Time to come up with something more original. Perhaps better informing yourselves would be a good start.

Then why don't you do it?

[3SoiDogNight]

DocN:

Do you have anything to add to the discussion? I sighted examples of flaws in our democracy in the US and backed it up with facts. All you've done is come in here and throw insults at those you don't agree with.

If there is something I stated that you don't agree with, then let's have a discussion about it.

[Ricardo]

The article should be renamed to "I think the Democrats and all smaller opposition groups should shut up and let government do whatever they like because they got 15M votes and Democrats already lost the election so you have no right to anything and you should not criticise on any policies from the winning party because if you do so it means you are against sympathetic grassroots and majority and do not respect democracy". Sorry for long name anyway I think I'm not good at naming at all.

Your long-version title might perhaps be summarised as "Yah, Sucks, Boo !" ?

Edited November 22, 2012 by Ricardo

[LarryBird]

The Fox news accusations are getting old. Time to come up with something more original. Perhaps better informing yourselves would be a good start.

Amen. It's an easy way of insulting someone rather than having an intelligent discussion based on facts logic.

It's funny, I actually like Obama, but dislike Obamacare. People have called me a Foxtard as well.