Public Fear As A Weapon To Counter Pitak Siam

[webfact]

Public fear as a weapon to counter Pitak Siam

Piyanart Srivalo

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- National intelligence agencies should be independent from politicians in power in their work to protect the nation's stability. But the way the government has been handling the planned mass rally over the weekend indicates that these intelligence agencies have reduced themselves to being political tools.

The Pheu Thai-led government has been using these agencies - the National Intelligence Agency, the National Security Council and the Special Branch Police - as tools to stir up public sentiment against the Pitak Siam led by a retired general, General Boonlert Kaewprasit.

Pitak Siam plans a mass rally at the Royal Plaza on Saturday. The closer the rally is drawing, the more the government is stepping up to create public fear towards the demonstrators by using the intelligence agencies as tools.

The government seems to have an advantage in the game of stirring up this anti-demonstrator sentiment because it has the power and various tools. It should be noted that Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, who supervises the NIA, NSC, and the Royal Thai Police, has been assigned to deal with the Pitak Siam rally.

So it was not surprising to see intelligence operations used to build up speculation and sentiment against the Pitak Siam.

For example, the government has cited intelligence reports to allege that the government's opponents were planning to hire people to disguise themselves as red shirts to stage violence and create a situation.

The allegation has not been verified yet, but those who raised or repeated it included a deputy prime minister and hard-line Cabinet members, who would not compromise with the opponents. They include Deputy Prime Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi, Deputy Interior Minister Pracha Prasopdee and Deputy Commerce Minister Natthawut Saikua.

Their allegation was also affirmed by NSC secretary-general Paradorn Pattanathabutr. Paradorn claimed that intelligence agencies had learned that some 4,000 to 5,000 people would be hired to pretend to be red shirts to create disturbances.

As part of its efforts to build up public fear, the government has announced nine Cabinet members were ordered to be on standby to conduct a mini Cabinet meeting in case of emergency so the government could declare the state of emergency.

"Actually, this is a routine operation and it is nothing new. Any government would have to do this to deal with similar situations. For example, the previous government held a mini Cabinet meeting at the Eleventh Infantry Regiment. The Somchai government also held a mini Cabinet meeting at the VIP lounge at the Don Mueang airport when the Government House was seized," a security source said.

-- The Nation 2012-11- 22

[Moruya]

Just a bunch of tools taking orders from another bunch of tools.

No sharp chisels in either box.

[CWMcMurray]

Where exactly is the Royal Plaza? It it the area around Palace / Sanam Luang?

I have a conference this weekend downtown in Centura CC (Central World), so just want to make sure so I can decide best way to drive into the city

[otherstuff1957]

I wouldn't drive anywhere this weekend. Park your car at Mochit or one of the other BTS stations & take the BTS to Chitlom.

[NCFC]

Very stupid article. Nation claiming that government organisations shouldn't be accountable to government ministers.

[Moruya]

Very stupid article. Nation claiming that government organisations shouldn't be accountable to government ministers.

Accountable - yes.

Impartial - no.

[jayboy]

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

[MunterHunter]

They are trying to shut down the protests - that doesn't seem very democratic to me.

Another case of "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" double standards for the Red Government - after all, only they are allowed to hold protests to oust a government, nobody else is allowed to do that!

[Buchholz]

The government seems to have an advantage in the game of stirring up this anti-demonstrator sentiment because it has the power and various tools. It should be noted that Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, who supervises the NIA, NSC, and the Royal Thai Police, has been assigned to deal with the Pitak Siam rally.

It's just the rule of law only, but... Yingluck is supossed to be in charge...

As per law, security matters do indeed come under the command of the PM, who is chief of the Internal Security Operation Command (ISOC) and the National Security Council.

Just like she said would be but a few weeks ago...

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has decided to personally take on the challenge of security matters

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-takes-over-security-matters-30193598.html

Ease up, Chalerm, you still got like 8 different hats to wear even if you give up the security leadership to the lawful person.

.

[Moruya]

Chalerm. Jack Daniels of all trades

[Mario2008]

1 offensive post deleted. Do not post altered pictures to put someone in a bad light.

[MunterHunter]

Wow - another governmental U-Turn

Mini cabinet approves enforcement of Internal Security Act at Dusit, Phra Nakhon, Pom Prap districts on Nov 22-30 /MCOT

Parliament Speaker: Strict security measures in place in response to anti-govt rally; 1,200 police deployed to ensure safety /MCOT

[h90]

Where exactly is the Royal Plaza? It it the area around Palace / Sanam Luang?

I have a conference this weekend downtown in Centura CC (Central World), so just want to make sure so I can decide best way to drive into the city

Avoid that....most probably the police will block the streets (telling they are searching the cars for weapons, causing traffic jams).

Try to use BTS/train instead or come a day earlier.

[timewilltell]

Very stupid article. Nation claiming that government organisations shouldn't be accountable to government ministers.

Well some organisations should not be politically accountable. Everyone involved in the justice system for one, including the police. The government is there to create the law not to administer it to suit itself. This requires a change of law and some transparency of the government want to change the effect of the law - rather than just arrange for a decision based in your favour by buying off the judge. The police likewise should act independently of the government - they are there to serve the people and the country not the government ministers.

[drdoom6996]

Just a bunch of tools taking orders from another bunch of tools.

No sharp chisels in either box.

Agreed, but tools? What about fools?

[Moruya]

Just a bunch of tools taking orders from another bunch of tools.

No sharp chisels in either box.

Agreed, but tools? What about fools?

Not mutually exclusive. My dictionary gives one meaning of tool as 'one who is used or manipulated by another'

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[EarthAlien]

"Their allegation was also affirmed by NSC secretary-general Paradorn Pattanathabutr. Paradorn claimed that intelligence agencies had learned that some 4,000 to 5,000 people would be hired to pretend to be red shirts to create disturbances."

What a great way for the real red shirt disturbance creators to get away with their antics. Set up a patsy before the show starts and then afterwards say "I told you so" when anyone points the finger at red shirt involvement.

Of course it could be a legitimate claim but that kind of cunning and nefarious planning is a hallmark of red shirt M.O.

[khunken]

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

[jayboy]

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

[tony walker]

Very stupid article. Nation claiming that government organisations shouldn't be accountable to government ministers.

Accountable - yes.

Impartial -

Very stupid article. Nation claiming that government organisations shouldn't be accountable to government ministers.

Accountable - yes.

Impartial - no.

"THE NATION" rather partial to "Pitak Siam" me thinks

no.

theNation

[khunken]

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

Who will benefit? PTP will as it gives them more ammunition to forcibly prevent future protests (excepting by the red shirts, of course)

[tony walker]

They are trying to shut down the protests - that doesn't seem very democratic to me.

Another case of "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" double standards for the Red Government - after all, only they are allowed to hold protests to oust a governme

nt, nobody else is allowed to do that!

far as i knew it's only ever been as you call them "red governments" that have ever been ousted ,and elected through the ballot box too, the don't make me laugh " democrats" only get power after the army take it from the elected government and give it to them, Every time they loose an election, its the same ,go to the courts get on the streets, scweem and cwy, posh rabble , sore loosers,

[jayboy]

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

Who will benefit? PTP will as it gives them more ammunition to forcibly prevent future protests (excepting by the red shirts, of course)

Some might take a different view.Some might think it would play into the hands of those who hate democracy annd want to "freeze" Thailand.Some might think that it is long established fascist behaviour to attempt to provoke an incident.Some might wonder why a very popular government with a strong mandate would wish to antagonise the military and old elites.A lot of things to wonder about and all conspire to demolish your theory that the PTP would benefit from violence.

As it happens the dinosurs' timing is terrible so I'm fairly sure the rally will pass without incident on this occasion.

[h90]

Some might take a different view.Some might think it would play into the hands of those who hate democracy annd want to "freeze" Thailand.Some might think that it is long established fascist behaviour to attempt to provoke an incident.Some might wonder why a very popular government with a strong mandate would wish to antagonise the military and old elites.A lot of things to wonder about and all conspire to demolish your theory that the PTP would benefit from violence.

As it happens the dinosurs' timing is terrible so I'm fairly sure the rally will pass without incident on this occasion.

I don't think that the government is very popular. And strong mandate? They bought their mandate...

But I think the demonstrations will give a good indication how much the government is hated or not.

[jayboy]

Some might take a different view.Some might think it would play into the hands of those who hate democracy annd want to "freeze" Thailand.Some might think that it is long established fascist behaviour to attempt to provoke an incident.Some might wonder why a very popular government with a strong mandate would wish to antagonise the military and old elites.A lot of things to wonder about and all conspire to demolish your theory that the PTP would benefit from violence.

As it happens the dinosurs' timing is terrible so I'm fairly sure the rally will pass without incident on this occasion.

I don't think that the government is very popular. And strong mandate? They bought their mandate...

But I think the demonstrations will give a good indication how much the government is hated or not.

I see.Bought their mandate.Thailand eagerly embraces Boonlert,hero of the hour.Time to exit the discussion.

[Baerboxer]

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

Is your question serious? Government warn that demonstrators will cause trouble dressed as "red shirts". Real red shirts infiltrate demo and cause trouble. Police wade in and call for help from their 23k volunteers. Lots of demonstrators get hurt. Government say "warned you about this". Have to stop this lot organizing anymore demos because of all this bad behaviour and injuries. Not to be confused with those peaceful rallies organized by those nice red shirt boys. Do you see who might benefit - it's called propoganda; and this is just about as subtle as Goebels, Stalin and Mao.

[jayboy]

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

Is your question serious? Government warn that demonstrators will cause trouble dressed as "red shirts". Real red shirts infiltrate demo and cause trouble. Police wade in and call for help from their 23k volunteers. Lots of demonstrators get hurt. Government say "warned you about this". Have to stop this lot organizing anymore demos because of all this bad behaviour and injuries. Not to be confused with those peaceful rallies organized by those nice red shirt boys. Do you see who might benefit - it's called propoganda; and this is just about as subtle as Goebels, Stalin and Mao.

I guess that events today and sensible government action have made your theory rather threadbare, though frankly it never made much sense.It is the government that is seeking to preserve civil liberties and pre-empt violence.Your theory just doesn't make sense, no matter how many of the usual suspects sign up to it.Anyway we shall soon see.If the rally passes off peacefully, we may expect your retraction?

[rubl]

Not since some UDD leaders talked about a million red-shirts marching onto Bangkok in March 2010 did we have so much fun as we will have coming Saturday.

Whereas red-shirts and UDD are almost the same, PAD and Pitak Siam are not. Didn't the PAD leadership 'allow' their supporters to join the PS rally? Has PS said anything but start Saturday, wrap up Sunday? Any shoutcasts on bringing bottles?

An old general saying 'if I could I would' and that's enough reason to have 14,000, or 17,000, or 22,000 or even 50,000 police around? All the alleged rumours on violence are reported by government people, Pheu Thai members, UDD leaders and other worthy people. Still waiting for a slip of the tongue and having one say 'we have learned from 2010'