All Thais are Thai.

Some think they are as Thai as a bowl of kwey tiow nam.

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Of course the Thai government does not have a problem with the new Chinese passport because both countries are equally corrupt, And besides have a thought about who rules the people in Thailand in the first place??? ....The whole major part of the political branch in Thailand… Who are they..... THAI CHINESE… the same ethnic group that brought corruption to the (former) land of smiles in the first place.... Do you get the idea????

Why would The Thai-(Chinese) government risk to lose their closest (CORRUPTION)-PARTNER and cause them to lose face…???

Ah yes a little side note, I'm not a historian and I don't want to sound like one, but I think Thailand and its people, I mean the original Thai people have been colonized, by the THAI-CHINESE ELITE, as the majority of them who got into power, is treating the ethnic Thai population as their b********es…

Thai Chinese relate to China the same way European Americans relate to their ancestors being from various countries in Europe with the exception that most American families immigrated within a few hundred years ago while most Chinese families came to Thailand 400 to a 1,000 years ago. In other words, Thai Chinese are Thai and they don't relate at all to being Chinese, nor do they have any loyalty to China or can they speak the languages of China..

heheheh they have closer ties than you realize and many speak Chinese. Met a Thai Chinese girl in a forest monastary a few years ago, her dad sends her there to keep her away from boys so she brings her female gik to keep her happy the monk who ran the place was oblivious to the situation. Once while chatting with her she mentioned it was the second time for a visit there but the food was too spicey and she had to leave. I said but your Thai you should be able to eat spicey, she says ooo no we are chinese only eat chinese food. There is more to this Thai- Chinses thing than meets the eye as what appeared to be a house keeper was more as well.

What is being missed here is that there are Philippino-Chinese, Cambodian-Chinese. The chinese have a presents in all asian countries they where world travellers and traders in there day. During the big blow up in Indonesia a few years ago the folks of Chinese heritage were singled out for very brutal treatment murder, rape, beating as they were precieved to be the cause of the problem

Of course the Thai government does not have a problem with the new Chinese passport because both countries are equally corrupt, And besides have a thought about who rules the people in Thailand in the first place??? ....The whole major part of the political branch in Thailand… Who are they..... THAI CHINESE… the same ethnic group that brought corruption to the (former) land of smiles in the first place.... Do you get the idea????

Why would The Thai-(Chinese) government risk to lose their closest (CORRUPTION)-PARTNER and cause them to lose face…???

Ah yes a little side note, I'm not a historian and I don't want to sound like one, but I think Thailand and its people, I mean the original Thai people have been colonized, by the THAI-CHINESE ELITE, as the majority of them who got into power, is treating the ethnic Thai population as their b********es…

Thai Chinese relate to China the same way European Americans relate to their ancestors being from various countries in Europe with the exception that most American families immigrated within a few hundred years ago while most Chinese families came to Thailand 400 to a 1,000 years ago. In other words, Thai Chinese are Thai and they don't relate at all to being Chinese, nor do they have any loyalty to China or can they speak the languages of China..

Thanks for educating the chavs and bogans of TV. Seems to been an abundance of them on here..

Interesting that one of today's main news items is Palestine getting statehood status - on a level with the Vatican. I guess that gives it 'observer status' in the UN and some other forms of recognition. In contrast; a vastly larger area, Tibet, has barely a hope of getting recognized as an independent state. The reason: China covets Tibet. Similar to the Taiwan situation, which (as we know) is a large economically viable, large population on an independent island nation which the UN won't recognize on any level. China really needs to get bitch-slapped back to its place. That place = its landmass minus Tibet, which had been a sovereign country for hundreds of years before the Chinese took it over militarily in the 1950's. It had its own postage stamps and currency. Chinese emporers of olde would sometimes make the long trek to Lhasa (or send emissaries) to pay respects to former Dalai Lamas.

Chinese propaganda campaigns have done an excellent job of hoodwinking their populace (and others around the world) in to believing that Tibet was or should now be a part of China. Years ago, I had some correspondence with a high-level Chinese official on this topic. He called me a 'Richard Gere influenced puppet' for believing that Tibet should return to being a sovereign nation. I had to grin when I wrote back and told the official that I saw the truth of the situation many years before even Richard Gere was aware of it. The truth is the truth and it will win out eventually. It will be painful, but China will lose its stanglehold on Tibet in my lifetime (I'm 60).

I would just like to say something here about China claiming all this land as rightfully theirs. I remember a time, not so far in the past, a certain tyrant claimed Kuwait belonged to the country he was the tyrant of. Net thing you know he had a little bit of hassle from a coalition force, don't see that happening here. ;-)

Why do you need a map on your passport anyway? Are people too stupid to know what their country looks like? I just had a look at my Australian passport and cannot find a map. I will dig out my UK one and check that too, out of curiosity.

Territorial disputes extending into the realm of cartography.

Where is Achaan Thongchai Winichakul when you need him for his commentary on this subject? Alas, not here on Thai Visa but maybe over at New Mandala?

Why do you need a map on your passport anyway? Are people too stupid to know what their country looks like? I just had a look at my Australian passport and cannot find a map. I will dig out my UK one and check that too, out of curiosity.

So you can give directions to the pilot!

What IF China decided to flex it's muscles and claim these islands once and for all. Are they inhabited by the Chinese? A significant Chinese civilian population, and a light military presence should be enough to stake a real claim after all this time. Is Asean all about economics or are they military allies too? It already looks like Thailand is got the cash, but not the political will to be a major player in the Asean club.

I can see why Thailand would want to stay out of this right now with a neutral response, but what happens when when it's new trading partners burn up a lot Asean political points arguing with the richest neighbor in the neighborhood...?

Do they stand by and let the resources, jobs and money go to the Chinese or stand up and share it with Asean?

hmmmmmmm?

I would just like to say something here about China claiming all this land as rightfully theirs. I remember a time, not so far in the past, a certain tyrant claimed Kuwait belonged to the country he was the tyrant of. Net thing you know he had a little bit of hassle from a coalition force, don't see that happening here. ;-)

A few things about that. China didn't do or say anything at all to try and assist the Kuwaitis. Not before, and not during the 'coalition' efforts. Also typical of China is their quickness in coming in, after the smoke clears, with smiles and contracts - for the surviving locals - to secure natural resources. They're doing the same in Sudan and in Afghanistan.

China's leaders were sorely bothered when Bosnia successfully broke away from Yugoslavia. Obvious reason: it forbode what could happen in their own neighborhood. They also nixed the AVATAR movie after a couple weeks in China for the same reasons.

It's ironic that Chinese leaders condemn imperialism where they subjectively see it, but are themselves the world's biggest imperialists

NO PROBLEM TO ME. I'M FROM DENMARK

You're also a world citizen. You can hide away from things happening in the rest of the world, but sometimes far-away things come back to bite you on the ass. You could be compelled to join the Danish military to fight and die - defending the rights of people on the other side of the world.

Edited December 1, 201213 yr by maidu

Of course the Thai government does not have a problem with the new Chinese passport because both countries are equally corrupt, And besides have a thought about who rules the people in Thailand in the first place??? ....The whole major part of the political branch in Thailand… Who are they..... THAI CHINESE… the same ethnic group that brought corruption to the (former) land of smiles in the first place.... Do you get the idea????

Why would The Thai-(Chinese) government risk to lose their closest (CORRUPTION)-PARTNER and cause them to lose face…???

Ah yes a little side note, I'm not a historian and I don't want to sound like one, but I think Thailand and its people, I mean the original Thai people have been colonized, by the THAI-CHINESE ELITE, as the majority of them who got into power, is treating the ethnic Thai population as their b********es…

Thai Chinese relate to China the same way European Americans relate to their ancestors being from various countries in Europe with the exception that most American families immigrated within a few hundred years ago while most Chinese families came to Thailand 400 to a 1,000 years ago. In other words, Thai Chinese are Thai and they don't relate at all to being Chinese, nor do they have any loyalty to China or can they speak the languages of China..

Well a lot came to Thailand when China got communist. Running away from Mao.

Thailand is a colony of China!

To use an older Thai term, more like the southerm most Monthorn. Many of us still remember when Thailand refused a visa to the Dalai Lama in deference to the Thai government's overlords in Beijing. But of course we must respect the post-modernist argument that Thailand is, at heart, a multi-ethnic state and thus any suggestion of Chinese domination must be rejected out of political correctness.

Chaiyo (to use another somewhat dated Thai term)

Well there are also a lot Thai Buddhist who hate the Dalai Lama, as they claim that isn't Buddhisms.....So it pleases Beijing but also some of the hardcore Buddhists here. And as well as long as he has no money in his pocket what is the point of letting him visit Thailand?

Human rights was never interesting for Thailands governments (no matter Thaksin or any other).

And Thailand one with half Cambodia and north Malaysia as Thailand.....I think almost every country has its disputed areas, which would mean that the passports are not valid in the neighbor countries.

Complete Kindergarten from China and from the others to not simply ignore it.

I would just like to say something here about China claiming all this land as rightfully theirs. I remember a time, not so far in the past, a certain tyrant claimed Kuwait belonged to the country he was the tyrant of. Next thing you know he had a little bit of hassle from a coalition force, don't see that happening here. ;-)

A few things about that. China didn't do or say anything at all to try and assist the Kuwaitis. Not before, and not during the 'coalition' efforts. Also typical of China is their quickness in coming in, after the smoke clears, with smiles and contracts - for the surviving locals - to secure natural resources. They're doing the same in Sudan and in Afghanistan.

China's leaders were sorely bothered when Bosnia successfully broke away from Yugoslavia. Obvious reason: it forbode what could happen in their own neighborhood. They also nixed the AVATAR movie after a couple weeks in China for the same reasons.

It's ironic that Chinese leaders condemn imperialism where they subjectively see it, but are themselves the world's biggest imperialists

NO PROBLEM TO ME. I'M FROM DENMARK

You're also a world citizen. You can hide away from things happening in the rest of the world, but sometimes far-away things come back to bite you on the ass. You could be compelled to join the Danish military to fight and die - defending the rights of people on the other side of the world.

Maidu my point in what I wrote, was not to do with China's involvement in that particular crisis/war. It was more to do with the fact China can lay claim to whatever land they want, until it steps on the wrong countries toes. For example the country that lead that coalition. ;-)

Thai Chinese relate to China the same way European Americans relate to their ancestors being from various countries in Europe with the exception that most American families immigrated within a few hundred years ago while most Chinese families came to Thailand 400 to a 1,000 years ago. In other words, Thai Chinese are Thai and they don't relate at all to being Chinese, nor do they have any loyalty to China or can they speak the languages of China..

Thanks for educating the chavs and bogans of TV. Seems to been an abundance of them on here..

Nisa's comparison of a few hundred years of European migration to the US with the thousands of years of Chinese migration in SE Asia handily couches this part of the debate in historical terms but deep-seated cultural beliefs cannot be so easily tabulated and discounted.

Not so long ago in Bangkok, a Lao teenage girl was cut in half by a speeding Porsche. After some debate about the car owner versus the car driver, it transpired that the son of a wealthy local Thai-Chinese businessman had 'borrowed' his fathers car to go to school. Where was his father? He was attending the Qingming Festival in Hong Kong, ie. sweeping the tomb of his ancestors. This is a rather significant and deep-seated Chinese custom and although it was only the tragedy of the girls death that brought this to light, I would safely assume that the majority of wealthy Thai-Chinese pay more than lip service to their ancestors and their origins. The Irish-American may sport green on St. Patrick's Day and the Polish-American may have a secret, family recipe for perogys but the Chinese-American have a much more significant bond to their culture and ancestry.

Back on topic: the Chinese don't do subtle; it is not in their vocabulary. This rather benign matter of map in a passport is indicative of an attitude that they really don't care if it offends anyone. They have no intention of negotiating any settlement or agreement in the South China Sea and this is just another 'in your face' statement of what they wrongly believe is rightfully theirs.

Edited December 1, 201213 yr by NanLaew

Does it matter finally what Thai-Chinese think or hope to belong to? Definitely people in China don't think that they're somehow Chinese as they are.

This happens only when it has politically some benefits and interests from China perspective. When you discuss with Chinese(you have known them longer time)

who don't have any business relations with Thai, you realize very fast their thoughts about people in Thailand. Thailand is very nice country, some great food, beach, nice souvenirs...but when you start to discuss about people in Thailand, then you realize that there is no too much respect at all(Thai or Thai-Chinese it does not make any difference). And ok, this might be same when you ask same questions in Europe or US but anyway most of Chinese don't see great difference btw. person from Thailand or someone from Africa. And they don't hesitate to tell it honestly when drinking few beers in bar with them. It just tells that interest is not two way thing between these countries even if Thai's would like to see it such a way. So what Thailand can really offer to China other than corrupted projects(money) and some rise which might be a little bit over-priced when Burma, Laos and Cambodia can provide already everything what China needs.

And what would happen if issue with Japan will escalate and China is going to ask Thailand to do something about Japanese companies in country, so which side they would take, Thai-Chinese - Japanese

I thought for a moment Thaksin had gone back to his "Roots".

I hope he is slowly turning into a Arab and stay were he is.

Does it matter finally what Thai-Chinese think or hope to belong to? Definitely people in China don't think that they're somehow Chinese as they are.

This happens only when it has politically some benefits and interests from China perspective. When you discuss with Chinese(you have known them longer time)

who don't have any business relations with Thai, you realize very fast their thoughts about people in Thailand. Thailand is very nice country, some great food, beach, nice souvenirs...but when you start to discuss about people in Thailand, then you realize that there is no too much respect at all(Thai or Thai-Chinese it does not make any difference). And ok, this might be same when you ask same questions in Europe or US but anyway most of Chinese don't see great difference btw. person from Thailand or someone from Africa. And they don't hesitate to tell it honestly when drinking few beers in bar with them. It just tells that interest is not two way thing between these countries even if Thai's would like to see it such a way. So what Thailand can really offer to China other than corrupted projects(money) and some rise which might be a little bit over-priced when Burma, Laos and Cambodia can provide already everything what China needs.

And what would happen if issue with Japan will escalate and China is going to ask Thailand to do something about Japanese companies in country, so which side they would take, Thai-Chinese - Japanese

Yes, in January of 2008 I went to the CCP-PRC after having spent ten consecutive years in Thailand. There are several points to make based on my three year experience in the CCP-PRC.

The first relates to Thailand. Any time I mentioned to the Chinese that I'd spent ten years in Thailand the responses were the same: 1) There's not much civilization in Thailand 2) Thais eat with their hands 3) Why is our guy Thaksin getting such a bad deal in Thailand?

The second matter is that the Chinese sheeple all have the CCP-Beijing line that Chinese living in other countries througout the world are Chinese first and that they remain Chinese above all other considerations involved in living in the country. Whether I cited to the PRChinese the instance of my experience ofThailand or my own country, the USA, I advised the mainland Chinese that Chinese living abroad left China to begin a new life in a new land. Chinese Thais are Thais, I told the PRChinese; Chinese Americans are Americans I said etc etc. The Chinese of the mainland don't accept what I say, but they do accept their own governmet's posture regarding what all PRChinese call the "Overseas Chinese." The Overseas Chinese are Chinese, period. Both the CCP in Beijing want and need to believe this fallacy, as do the Chinese sheeple themselves.This point of view also reveals the Chinese view of Thaksin as their guy in Thailand; their guy in the tributary state of Thailand.

Further, when Overseas Chinese, such as students or Chinese who worked abroad for some fixed period of years, return to the mainland, they are segregated in Overseas Chinese housing complexes in which only "Overseas Chinese" live who have return to China as scheduled. The CCP government makes sure Chinese who have lived abroad are kept separate from the rest of the mainland population, lest they start to "infect" the local mainland Chinese sheeple with foreign devil ideas the Overseas Chinese may have absorbed or consciously acquired while overseas. Returning Overseas Chinese who have lived in democracies are especially strictly quaranteened to the Overseas Chinese housing projects built especially to provide for them so they are kept separate from the mainland sheeple.

A third point has to do with the discussion of Tibet, which the CCP-PRChinese are certain they are civilizing and saving from their thousands years old barbarian ways. Tibetans have it tough, but let's not forget the Uighurs of westernmost PRChina, at the borders with the central Asian countries. As with Tibet, the CCP-PRC forced its way into the land of the Uighurs to seize the territory and their government to happily begin bringing civilisation to those barbarians. Beijing established the land of the Uighurs as an Autonomous Region of the CCP-PRC rather than as a province because the Uighurs are not yet transformed into being Chinese, which is the ultimate goal of the Boyz in Beijing. There have been a series of bloody uprisings in the Autonomous Region, called XinJiang, which the Chinese armed police, paramilitary forces and also the military directly and ruthlessly repressed. The Uighurs who are Muslim, speak a Turkic language and have distinctly caucasian physical features are resisting the PRChinese taking control of their economy, government, institutions of society, culture, natural resources etc etc.The Uighurs are being pushed out of their cities into the countryside as the Han Chinese move in on orders from Beijing to settle the cities, control the region and to get their piece of the take.

Beijing believes it owns much of the land which is northern India, over which China and India fought a brief war in 1962 but which settled nothing. There's no question the fascists in Beijing will use military force in the so-called China Seas - East, South and North around Japan. We notice that Japan, unlike Thailand and most of Asean, does not kiss Chinese arse but rather fights and bites back. There is a low intensity, low level military spat coming that will involve the forces of the CCP-PRC and the United States and certain of its East Asia allies. Thailand will not involve itself in such an event. The low level conflict will be contained to some remote islet but is wanted by both sides to test the military capabilities and forces of the other. Except for the brief 1962 Chinese invasion of northern India, the Chinese have not been engaged in a military conflict since the Korean War ended in 1953. The Chinese have new technology and a growing military they will want - and believe they will need - to test against the ultimate force in the world, the Untied States. I frankly don't believe the untested and rookie CCP military fatcat generals and admirals of the corrupt PRC are up to it. As with the Thai Army, the PRC military is good at shooting masses of unarmed civilians but has yet to prove itself in an actual, sustained, military-on-military conflict.

This is unavoidable as Beijing continues to be ancient minded about its territorial and civilizational demands. The Boyz in Beijing continue to think in ancient and rudimentary terms, i.e., force is the ultimate answer and will be used, that the world is win-lose, obey-disobey, zero-sum. Their form of government, 21st century fascist dictatorship, is archaic and unimproved by the conceit of collective leadership the PRChinese love to tout.

I'm afraid things only get worse from here on out.

"the map is not the territory"

http://en.wikipedia....ritory_relation

Mind you, the quote is from the man who also said

"There are two ways to slide easily through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything; both ways save us from thinking. - Alfred Korzybski"

http://en.wikipedia....lfred_Korzybski

I thought for a moment Thaksin had gone back to his "Roots".

Please don't insult the Chinese.