Election To Condo Management Committee

[Eneukman]

I am planning to stand for election to the management committee at the AGM which is to be held on 13th January (or 27th January) if there is no quorum at the first meeting.

My condo is held in a company name though I am enquiring as to whether it can be transferred into my own name. The office have stated that they need, inter alia, my company registration certificate which must be no more than 3 months old. I do not recall this being mentioned prior to previous elections and wonder whether this in in fact a legal requirement. If it is, how do I get it updated and how long does it take?

Thanks,

Alan

[Delight]

In respect of those who qualify as committee members –The condo act states

:

SECTION 37/1.- The following persons shall be eligible for appoint­ment as the committee members:

(1) the co-owners or spouses of the co-owners;

(2) the lawful representative, the supporter or guardian in the case of a co-owner being a minor, an incompetent or quasi-incompetent person, as the case may be;

(3) one person as the representative of a juristic person in the case that the juristic person is a co-owner.

In the case that the condominium unit is jointly owned by many co-owners, only one co-owner shall be entitled to be elected to the committee.

There is no requirement to prove that you are a co –owner.

Your election will occur at a legal General Meeting. Your application needs to be the agenda.

Your reference to a ‘quorum’ is I think irrelevant-Maybe I am missing something.

Changing your ownership status from Thai Company to Foreign ownership ,is a completely different matter.

I can only suggest that you discuss this with the Manager of the Juristic person.

[Eneukman]

In respect of those who qualify as committee members –The condo act states

:

SECTION 37/1.- The following persons shall be eligible for appoint­ment as the committee members:

(1) the co-owners or spouses of the co-owners;

(2) the lawful representative, the supporter or guardian in the case of a co-owner being a minor, an incompetent or quasi-incompetent person, as the case may be;

(3) one person as the representative of a juristic person in the case that the juristic person is a co-owner.

In the case that the condominium unit is jointly owned by many co-owners, only one co-owner shall be entitled to be elected to the committee.

There is no requirement to prove that you are a co –owner.

Your election will occur at a legal General Meeting. Your application needs to be the agenda.

Your reference to a ‘quorum’ is I think irrelevant-Maybe I am missing something.

Changing your ownership status from Thai Company to Foreign ownership ,is a completely different matter.

I can only suggest that you discuss this with the Manager of the Juristic person.

Thanks for the information. I thought that that would be the case.

The reference to a quorum was to the date the meeting would actually be held. At the first attempt, there must be at least 25% of all owners (or their proxies present) failing which a 2nd meeting must be held within 15 days. Is there any legal reason why the 2nd meeting cannot be held the following day? A number of co-owners live up-country and that would ensure that they would only have to make one trip to attend the meeting?

I've asked our condo manager as to whether or not my condo can be transferred out of a company name into my own name. Obviously, if it can be done, I'll need assistance from a local solicitor.

Alan

[Delight]

Is there any legal reason why the 2nd meeting cannot be held the following day

This second meeting will have to be organized as per the 1^st Meeting i.e. Notice and agendas etc. will have to be delivered by registered post to each co –owner. The Condo Act does not specify this detail.-The Local Land office demand it.

The land office only require evidence that the Notice was sent –not that Notices were received -so these can be sent out the day of the 1^st Meeting-just after this 1^st meeting was closed.

Somebody will need to be organized.

I've asked our condo manager as to whether or not my condo can be transferred out of a company name into my own name. Obviously, if it can be done, I'll need assistance from a local solicitor.

When you say condo manager are you referring to the building manager or the registered Manager i.e. the JPM.

The former cannot help you except with information i.e. is there sufficient spare ‘space’ in the 49% Foreign Ownership quota?

I assume that recently a condo originally in the 49% Foreign has now been sold to a Thai who has changed the status to Thai ownership-thus reducing the Foreign component.

The transaction will be controlled by the JPM ,on your behalf(maybe), and he will negotiate with the land office.

If you go ahead with the transaction then a lawyer is essential. If for any reason your inclusion in the 49% actually breaches the 49% threshold(if only by a very small margin ) –then by law you will have to dispose of the condo. You will be given 12 months to achieve this

.

In practice you will sell it from Foreign to Thai Company-your existing Thai Company. A perfect exercise in futility.

This lawyer you must trust.

[Eneukman]

Is there any legal reason why the 2nd meeting cannot be held the following day

This second meeting will have to be organized as per the 1^st Meeting i.e. Notice and agendas etc. will have to be delivered by registered post to each co –owner. The Condo Act does not specify this detail.-The Local Land office demand it.

The land office only require evidence that the Notice was sent –not that Notices were received -so these can be sent out the day of the 1^st Meeting-just after this 1^st meeting was closed.

Somebody will need to be organized.

I've asked our condo manager as to whether or not my condo can be transferred out of a company name into my own name. Obviously, if it can be done, I'll need assistance from a local solicitor.

When you say condo manager are you referring to the building manager or the registered Manager i.e. the JPM.

The former cannot help you except with information i.e. is there sufficient spare ‘space’ in the 49% Foreign Ownership quota?

I assume that recently a condo originally in the 49% Foreign has now been sold to a Thai who has changed the status to Thai ownership-thus reducing the Foreign component.

The transaction will be controlled by the JPM ,on your behalf(maybe), and he will negotiate with the land office.

If you go ahead with the transaction then a lawyer is essential. If for any reason your inclusion in the 49% actually breaches the 49% threshold(if only by a very small margin ) –then by law you will have to dispose of the condo. You will be given 12 months to achieve this

.

In practice you will sell it from Foreign to Thai Company-your existing Thai Company. A perfect exercise in futility.

This lawyer you must trust.

I was referring to our building manager. At the last AGM, the turnout was less than 25% so the current juristic person manager was appointed by the committee - in fact the chairman of the managing committee (a farang). At the AGM, he will have completed two successive terms in office so will be unable to seek re-election next month. I suspect that he would let the management company do what was required and merely sign the appropriate papers in his capacity as juristic person manager.

I do know of a firm of local solicitors who have been highly recommended by people I know.

Alan

[Delight]

At the last AGM, the turnout was less than 25% so the current juristic person manager was appointed by the committee

The committee can appoint a JPM .

This temporary appointment can only occur if the existing manager is unable to perform his/her duties.

It cannot be a permanent appointment.

The appointment can only be permanent if agreed at a general meeting . A winning vote (which must comprise at least 25% of total building ) can dismiss and appoint the JPM. This has to be registered at the land office within 30 days of the vote(in Thai). The new appointment becomes legal as soon as the vote is declared.

Is your JPM legal?

the chairman will have completed two successive terms in office so will be unable to seek re-election next month

Committee members who have served 2 two year terms can be re –elected-only if no other volunteers are available. New blood gets priority.

I do know of a firm of local solicitors who have been highly recommended by people I know.

Neither do I . You will have to do some work.

[Eneukman]

At the last AGM, the turnout was less than 25% so the current juristic person manager was appointed by the committee

The committee can appoint a JPM .

This temporary appointment can only occur if the existing manager is unable to perform his/her duties.

It cannot be a permanent appointment.

The appointment can only be permanent if agreed at a general meeting . A winning vote (which must comprise at least 25% of total building ) can dismiss and appoint the JPM. This has to be registered at the land office within 30 days of the vote(in Thai). The new appointment becomes legal as soon as the vote is declared.

Is your JPM legal?

the chairman will have completed two successive terms in office so will be unable to seek re-election next month

Committee members who have served 2 two year terms can be re –elected-only if no other volunteers are available. New blood gets priority.

I do know of a firm of local solicitors who have been highly recommended by people I know.

Neither do I . You will have to do some work.

The election of a JPM was on the agenda but the vote could not proceed due to fewer than 25% of owners being present. I don't know whether or not he was registered with the Land Office but as our management company manage many buildings in both Bangkok and Pattaya, I am certain that they would have done what was legally required. I am certain that the election of a new JPM will be on the agenda for the AGM next month though I do not know who will seek election though that will only be important if it is attended by more than 25% of owners.

At the AGM 2 years ago, owners voted to reduce the maximum size of the committee from 9 to 7. As it happens at that AGM, there were only 6 candidates one of whom only received around 25% of the vote so wasn't registered at the Land Office. Two of the current committee have now completed 2 terms so are ineligible for re-election unless there are too few candidates. I am confident that this will not be the case.

Thanks,

Alan

[aliep]

Is there any legal reason why the 2nd meeting cannot be held the following day

This second meeting will have to be organized as per the 1^st Meeting i.e. Notice and agendas etc. will have to be delivered by registered post to each co –owner. The Condo Act does not specify this detail.-The Local Land office demand it.

The land office only require evidence that the Notice was sent –not that Notices were received -so these can be sent out the day of the 1^st Meeting-just after this 1^st meeting was closed.

Somebody will need to be organized.

I've asked our condo manager as to whether or not my condo can be transferred out of a company name into my own name. Obviously, if it can be done, I'll need assistance from a local solicitor.

When you say condo manager are you referring to the building manager or the registered Manager i.e. the JPM.

The former cannot help you except with information i.e. is there sufficient spare ‘space’ in the 49% Foreign Ownership quota?

I assume that recently a condo originally in the 49% Foreign has now been sold to a Thai who has changed the status to Thai ownership-thus reducing the Foreign component.

The transaction will be controlled by the JPM ,on your behalf(maybe), and he will negotiate with the land office.

If you go ahead with the transaction then a lawyer is essential. If for any reason your inclusion in the 49% actually breaches the 49% threshold(if only by a very small margin ) –then by law you will have to dispose of the condo. You will be given 12 months to achieve this

.

In practice you will sell it from Foreign to Thai Company-your existing Thai Company. A perfect exercise in futility.

This lawyer you must trust.

I was referring to our building manager. At the last AGM, the turnout was less than 25% so the current juristic person manager was appointed by the committee - in fact the chairman of the managing committee (a farang). At the AGM, he will have completed two successive terms in office so will be unable to seek re-election next month. I suspect that he would let the management company do what was required and merely sign the appropriate papers in his capacity as juristic person manager.

I do know of a firm of local solicitors who have been highly recommended by people I know.

Alan

I can tell you categorigally, that it is illegal for a farang to be a JPM unless he has a work permit specific to that Juristic Company (practically impossible) unless a full-time Thai manager is hired to do all the work. Many small condo's have had run-in's with immigration over this.

[Eneukman]

I can tell you categorigally, that it is illegal for a farang to be a JPM unless he has a work permit specific to that Juristic Company (practically impossible) unless a full-time Thai manager is hired to do all the work. Many small condo's have had run-in's with immigration over this.

I've heard about farang JPM's having had problems with Immigration though I've always put that down to there being some other matter going on that was less easy to prove.

I'm in a large building so we have our own Thai management company who do all the work. All the JPM has to do therefore is to sign the relevant papers.

One other question. At a previous AGM, the votes were not counted on site but were taken to our management company's Head Office. Someone wanted to check the counting but was told that it was not allowed.

Can owners insist on votes being counted on site and do they have a right to watch the counting process or to check it at a later date?

Thanks,

Alan

[aliep]

I can tell you categorigally, that it is illegal for a farang to be a JPM unless he has a work permit specific to that Juristic Company (practically impossible) unless a full-time Thai manager is hired to do all the work. Many small condo's have had run-in's with immigration over this.

I've heard about farang JPM's having had problems with Immigration though I've always put that down to there being some other matter going on that was less easy to prove.

I'm in a large building so we have our own Thai management company who do all the work. All the JPM has to do therefore is to sign the relevant papers.

One other question. At a previous AGM, the votes were not counted on site but were taken to our management company's Head Office. Someone wanted to check the counting but was told that it was not allowed.

Can owners insist on votes being counted on site and do they have a right to watch the counting process or to check it at a later date?

Thanks,

Alan

I know the condominium act pretty well, there is no specific clause about counting the votes BUT counting them away from the meeting could effectively be called conducting business at an improperly called meeting, not to mention highly suspect. How many people are voting? is it 100's? This sounds like a ploy by the condo management company to make sure they always stay employed. The only certain way to ensure business is conducted properly is to take a Thai lawyer with you to the meeting. K. Perasit, the principle at Pensit & Law's in Jomtien is an expert on the Condominium Act and they are great trustworthy lawyers, their HQ is in Bangkok.

[Eneukman]

I can tell you categorigally, that it is illegal for a farang to be a JPM unless he has a work permit specific to that Juristic Company (practically impossible) unless a full-time Thai manager is hired to do all the work. Many small condo's have had run-in's with immigration over this.

I've heard about farang JPM's having had problems with Immigration though I've always put that down to there being some other matter going on that was less easy to prove.

I'm in a large building so we have our own Thai management company who do all the work. All the JPM has to do therefore is to sign the relevant papers.

One other question. At a previous AGM, the votes were not counted on site but were taken to our management company's Head Office. Someone wanted to check the counting but was told that it was not allowed.

Can owners insist on votes being counted on site and do they have a right to watch the counting process or to check it at a later date?

Thanks,

Alan

I know the condominium act pretty well, there is no specific clause about counting the votes BUT counting them away from the meeting could effectively be called conducting business at an improperly called meeting, not to mention highly suspect. How many people are voting? is it 100's? This sounds like a ploy by the condo management company to make sure they always stay employed. The only certain way to ensure business is conducted properly is to take a Thai lawyer with you to the meeting. K. Perasit, the principle at Pensit & Law's in Jomtien is an expert on the Condominium Act and they are great trustworthy lawyers, their HQ is in Bangkok.

I'm not certain how many people actually attend AGM's here but I suspect it will be around 100 or so representing around 20% of the total ownership. Many people own more than 1 room (I own 2). It was certainly felt to be suspicious that the votes weren't counted on site.

The management company was granted an extension of their existing contract by the current committee without reference to owners. I don't know the terms of their contract but if elected, I shall be having a close look at it. The previous contract allowed the committee to sack them on 1 month's notice which I assume will still be there.

Alan

[Delight]

All the JPM has to do therefore is to sign the relevant papers.

The JPM is responsible for the successful management of the condo -total .

He is not there' just to sign the papers'

You need at least 25% of the building vote to replace a JPM.

If you do not have 25% of that vote -then the committee must get it.As it stands your condo has the earlier JPM in charge i..e.the one that is registered at the Land office.

You cannot just make up the rules as you are going along.

Counting votes at a later date and at a separate location is strictly out of order.

As I see it you have the dangerous situation of a scheming external management and a bunch of apathetic co -owners.

[Langsuan Man]

Since no one appear to have an answer to part of your first question I will address it :

The office have stated that they need, inter alia, my company registration certificate which must be no more than 3 months old. I do not recall this being mentioned prior to previous elections and wonder whether this in in fact a legal requirement. If it is, how do I get it updated and how long does it take?

This is a requirement for any "official" transactions when using your company name. In order to get permanent water for my house I had to "update" my company, to get permanent electricity I had to "update" my company. This was accomplished by contacting the lawyer who set up my company and who does my annual company filing. The fee for updating the company and getting the official paper that says it was updated cost me 1,000 THB and if memory serves me correctly it only took a couple of days

[Eneukman]

Thanks for that Langsuan Man.

Howwever, a fellow candidate for the committee is in the same position I am and it was suggested to him that whoever set up the company could arrange this for him. This is the same firm as the company that does my annual accounts and as I've still to obtain an English translation of the last accounts, I plan to pay them a visit this afternoon.

I don't know who set my company up as I bought it when I bought my condo.

Alan

[Delight]

SECTION 42.pdf

Is there any legal reason why the 2nd meeting cannot be held the following day

This second meeting will have to be organized as per the 1^st Meeting i.e. Notice and agendas etc. will have to be delivered by registered post to each co –owner. The Condo Act does not specify this detail.-The Local Land office demand it.

The land office only require evidence that the Notice was sent –not that Notices were received -so these can be sent out the day of the 1^st Meeting-just after this 1^st meeting was closed.

Somebody will need to be organized.

I need to correct myself.

Co-owners require 7 days notice prior to any General Meeting Section 42/3 details this . I attach a PDF

Apologize for the potential confusion

[jomtienfun]

All the JPM has to do therefore is to sign the relevant papers.

The JPM is responsible for the successful management of the condo -total .

He is not there' just to sign the papers'

You need at least 25% of the building vote to replace a JPM.

If you do not have 25% of that vote -then the committee must get it.As it stands your condo has the earlier JPM in charge i..e.the one that is registered at the Land office.

You cannot just make up the rules as you are going along.

Counting votes at a later date and at a separate location is strictly out of order.

As I see it you have the dangerous situation of a scheming external management and a bunch of apathetic co -owners.

Looks like my condo lot of complain but to get co-owners organised to do something like you put it a bunch of apathetic co-owners

We have also farang JP no work permit and not registered at land office his word not need to do this law not require this? ?

Before we had election for new committee a lot of new people were elected all more or less for changing management and the JP and management did not register the elected committee they could do it on time within the 30 days. . . . so sorry for the new elected candidates but old committee had to stay in power read those who did not wanted to change management company

And the new elected one well the just stood by and looked at it no fight just a bunch of apathetic people and now I fear no one rearly want to stand up

jomtienfun

[Delight]

SECTION 38.pdfSECTION 49.pdf

The committee can elect a temporary JPM Section 38 para 2

There is only one methodology for replacing a JPM -Section 49 specifies.

I attach 2-PDF,s

The land office are not concerned with the immigration status of a JPM. Not their problem.

For certain you do have a legally registered JPM –the man who is now doing the job , from what you say, is an impostor.

[Eneukman]

SECTION 38.pdfSECTION 49.pdf

The committee can elect a temporary JPM Section 38 para 2

There is only one methodology for replacing a JPM -Section 49 specifies.

I attach 2-PDF,s

The land office are not concerned with the immigration status of a JPM. Not their problem.

For certain you do have a legally registered JPM –the man who is now doing the job , from what you say, is an impostor.

The JPM has not been elected by co-owners because of the apathy of many of them who can not make the effort to attend the AGM.

Regarding the point made by Jomtienfun, the committee were, looking back, badly advised by our management company. They most certainly did not advise me that to be elected committee members had to receive votes from at least half of all owners present.

Hopefully, we'll get at least 7 owners willing to stand for election at the AGM next month.

Alan

[Delight]

SECTION 38.pdfSECTION 49.pdf

The committee can elect a temporary JPM Section 38 para 2

There is only one methodology for replacing a JPM -Section 49 specifies.

I attach 2-PDF,s

The land office are not concerned with the immigration status of a JPM. Not their problem.

For certain you do have a legally registered JPM –the man who is now doing the job , from what you say, is an impostor.

The JPM has not been elected by co-owners because of the apathy of many of them who can not make the effort to attend the AGM.

Regarding the point made by Jomtienfun, the committee were, looking back, badly advised by our management company. They most certainly did not advise me that to be elected committee members had to receive votes from at least half of all owners present.

Hopefully, we'll get at least 7 owners willing to stand for election at the AGM next month.

Alan

They most certainly did not advise me that to be elected committee members had to receive votes from at least half of all owners present.

In relation to the selection of committee members , this can only happen at a legally convened general meeting. Each candidate has to separately voted in . A simple majority is required for each candidate to be accepted.

Therefore something a bit more than half of the total vote at the general meeting is required for each individual candidate to be successful.

Hopefully, we'll get at least 7 owners willing to stand for election at the AGM next month.

Is it your hope that this ‘new blood’ will remove your current impostor JPM?-(My use of the phrase ‘impostor JPM’, is based on your earlier statements.)

[Eneukman]

SECTION 38.pdfSECTION 49.pdf

The committee can elect a temporary JPM Section 38 para 2

There is only one methodology for replacing a JPM -Section 49 specifies.

I attach 2-PDF,s

The land office are not concerned with the immigration status of a JPM. Not their problem.

For certain you do have a legally registered JPM –the man who is now doing the job , from what you say, is an impostor.

The JPM has not been elected by co-owners because of the apathy of many of them who can not make the effort to attend the AGM.

Regarding the point made by Jomtienfun, the committee were, looking back, badly advised by our management company. They most certainly did not advise me that to be elected committee members had to receive votes from at least half of all owners present.

Hopefully, we'll get at least 7 owners willing to stand for election at the AGM next month.

Alan

They most certainly did not advise me that to be elected committee members had to receive votes from at least half of all owners present.

In relation to the selection of committee members , this can only happen at a legally convened general meeting. Each candidate has to separately voted in . A simple majority is required for each candidate to be accepted.

Therefore something a bit more than half of the total vote at the general meeting is required for each individual candidate to be successful.

Hopefully, we'll get at least 7 owners willing to stand for election at the AGM next month.

Is it your hope that this ‘new blood’ will remove your current impostor JPM?-(My use of the phrase ‘impostor JPM’, is based on your earlier statements.)

I don't think our current JPM is an "impostor" as such albeit he has never been officially registered with the Land Office. I do think the next committee needs an injection of new blood.

Alan

[Delight]

SECTION 38.pdfSECTION 49.pdf

The committee can elect a temporary JPM Section 38 para 2

There is only one methodology for replacing a JPM -Section 49 specifies.

I attach 2-PDF,s

The land office are not concerned with the immigration status of a JPM. Not their problem.

For certain you do have a legally registered JPM –the man who is now doing the job , from what you say, is an impostor.

The JPM has not been elected by co-owners because of the apathy of many of them who can not make the effort to attend the AGM.

Regarding the point made by Jomtienfun, the committee were, looking back, badly advised by our management company. They most certainly did not advise me that to be elected committee members had to receive votes from at least half of all owners present.

Hopefully, we'll get at least 7 owners willing to stand for election at the AGM next month.

Alan

They most certainly did not advise me that to be elected committee members had to receive votes from at least half of all owners present.

In relation to the selection of committee members , this can only happen at a legally convened general meeting. Each candidate has to separately voted in . A simple majority is required for each candidate to be accepted.

Therefore something a bit more than half of the total vote at the general meeting is required for each individual candidate to be successful.

Hopefully, we'll get at least 7 owners willing to stand for election at the AGM next month.

Is it your hope that this ‘new blood’ will remove your current impostor JPM?-(My use of the phrase ‘impostor JPM’, is based on your earlier statements.)

I don't think our current JPM is an "impostor" as such albeit he has never been officially registered with the Land Office. I do think the next committee needs an injection of new blood.

Alan

I agree that term 'impostor ' is not completely accurate. My search for a more apt. noun has failed.

The fact remains

Only the legal JPM ,at your condo ,can call an Annual general meeting

Therefore your forthcoming Annual general meeting will be illegal -all decisions arising from this illegal meeting will also be illegal.

I suspect that there is a bigger picture ,in relation to your condo.

My guess is that if this illegal behavior is not fixed sooner-then it will have to be fixed later.

In the meantime ,If I am right,then a person or persons are helping themselves to condo money.

Maybe I am being just too dramatic -Lets hope so.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Delight

[Delight]

Delight stated

Only the legal JPM ,at your condo ,can call an Annual general meeting

Delight now states

Correction

It is the Chairman that calls the AGM -not the JPM

In which case the meeting as described by the OP is probably legal.Its strange having a legal meeting with an illegal JPM

It is still illegal to have a JPM appointment that does not comply with the Law.

That being the case with the Condo where the OP resides

I apologize for my mistake.

[jomtienfun]

Today I saw how our manager was assistant a co-owner with pre-registering for agm tomorrow.

So this man came to office to pick up registered mail without realizing it were the documents for the agm

Like sadly many co-owners he is not interested so our manager tell him no problem he can pre-register now and she will take care but important to have his votes

So this good man agrees signs the voting slips and then manager tell him to go give to mr.x ( friend from manager) so it will be good

Sad story no announcement are made to co-owners they can pre-register only start 10.00 clock before meeting registration starts and new candidates for committee are for changing management and security company so in there way management is taking care to be sure new candidates will not have enough votes to become committee members

Legal side very doubtfully but what can you do she did not take the voting slips