Thailand Plans To Run Chinese High-Speed Railway System

[culicine]

I really like the idea of high speed rail services but I think this is one project that is going to go off the rails in very short time.

I'm not really into extreme sports, so think I'll take my chances on the bus

[siampolee]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/10/us-china-train-idUSTRE77946C20110810

BEIJING | Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:52am EDT

(Reuters) - China plans to suspend new railway project approvals and launch safety checks on existing equipment to address growing public concern following a deadly crash between two high-speed trains last month, Premier Wen Jiabao was quoted as saying by state media Wednesday.

Just a year back, a little time in history ,read the full article and decide for your self Thai at Heart whether the system is up to safe operating standard yet?

[DaveHKT]

Will drivers still try to beat the fast train at road crossing !,

there are lots of accidents with the slow trains,so this is

going to be something they are going to have to put a

lot of thought to......or maybe not.

regards Worgeordie

Good thought. 300 kph is almost one football field per second. I think there might be a lot less Somchais on the road after a few months operation.

Thankfully not too many on a year to year basis. Imagine the mess there'd be after a train slamming into a truck at + 300kph. It would take the best part of a year to clear the mess and reinstate the track (Thais will probably be responsible for the repairs). "All clear? Let's roll again". A couple of days later, same scenario. This will continue for a couple of years then they'll run out of trains. So it looks as though we won't be losing many Somchais. Not the same for the train passengers though...lots of those won't be making another tracking journey.

[lovelaos]

I really like the idea of high speed rail services but I think this is one project that is going to go off the rails in very short time.

I'm not really into extreme sports, so think I'll take my chances on the bus

Yeah because the buses are so safe eh?

[billd766]

At a rough estimate of the costs of US$16.6 billion and using an exchange rate of 60 Thb = US$1 that equals 498,000,000,000 baht or around half a TRILLION baht.

It is the equivalent of cutting the combined track length of 1,300 km by 430 km.

Working of the "accepted corruption" figue of 30% it means that about 170,000,000,000 baht will be STOLEN from the people of Thailand at least before it is built and completed. This amount does not include the interest to be repaid on the loan which will cost the country even more money.

And in the last few days the Finance Minister promises a "balanced budget" by 2014 or 2015. How can he believe or say that?

[DaveHKT]

"....tracking journey" what the h**l is a 'tracking journey' Sorry about that looks as though I lost my 'train' of thought.

[FarangTalk]

How will the locals be able to throw their litter out of the windows at those speeds?

[MaxLee]

With yearly natural disasters like floods, the service is gonna be suspended, for big periods

Secondly, with an insufficient near to ZERO investment in the proper safety ground infrastructure, the dear guests are endangered big time, if you know what I mean.

What would happen if you put an elephant on a wooden over the canyon dangling Amazon bridge??? ... Get the idea???

Now what would happen if you put a heavy weighting high speed bullet train onto in sufficiently maintained cheap railroad track material???? … Get the idea???

Well If China can't cooperate with the USA or other developed constitutionalized European countries, they turn back to Thailand and make Thailand into their B************ssssss

I'm really to call myself a Thai Chinese ethnic… I'm normally not associated against my social roots, but Thailand is ruled by a majority of feudalistic, ruthless corrupt Thai-Chinese Sons if B**********es

That's all there us to it, and I feel totally ashamed towards my ethnic roots... in a way...

[Thai at Heart]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/10/us-china-train-idUSTRE77946C20110810

BEIJING | Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:52am EDT

(Reuters) - China plans to suspend new railway project approvals and launch safety checks on existing equipment to address growing public concern following a deadly crash between two high-speed trains last month, Premier Wen Jiabao was quoted as saying by state media Wednesday.

Just a year back, a little time in history ,read the full article and decide for your self Thai at Heart whether the system is up to safe operating standard yet?

No, the system in China is not perfect. But having taken 13 hour car trips through yunnan, 300metres up valley sides, the train wins every time if plane is impractical.

It will still be massively statistically safer than driving, more convenient, and about the same time as flying because of check in and transfer times

Accidents happen, but would i prefer to put my life in the hands of a computer program with 1000s of hours of testing versus worrying that somchai the truck driver falls asleep, or his brakes fail?

[Soi Sauce]

How long did it take to extend the BTS from On Nut to Baring? At the same rate, this far more difficult project will take more than 100 years.

[chuang]

The people on here who complain about Chines high-speed trains have obviously never used them. They are better than anything that's available in the West, and tickets are much cheaper. For those that will refuse to use them here, well that is your choice. Live in the past if you want, but I'll definitely be using them, as will many others.

Two years seems very fast by Western standards, but in China these high-speed train lines are built very quickly. China will build over 10,000 km of high speed track in the next three years, so a few hundred km should be possible here in two years. Can't wait to use it. Hopefully I'll be on the first train.

Forgive them for they know not what they said...

[Psych01]

Now everything is clear. This is way there was no problem with the new Chinese passports here! Possibly?

[EarthAlien]

Will drivers still try to beat the fast train at road crossing !,

there are lots of accidents with the slow trains,so this is

going to be something they are going to have to put a

lot of thought to......or maybe not.

regards Worgeordie

No thought needed. Bridges.

Will fishing be allowed from the bridges?

[whybother]

Will drivers still try to beat the fast train at road crossing !,

there are lots of accidents with the slow trains,so this is

going to be something they are going to have to put a

lot of thought to......or maybe not.

regards Worgeordie

No thought needed. Bridges.

Will fishing be allowed from the bridges?

Not sure they would catch many fish from a bridge over a road.

[Troll]

This is what ran trugh my head when I read this article: Supertramps Dreamer:

Dreamer, you know you are a dreamer

Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no

I said, "Dreamer, you're nothing but a dreamer"

Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no

I said "Far out, what a day, a year, a laugh it is"

You know, well you know you had it comin' to you

Now there's not a lot I can do

Dreamer, you stupid little dreamer

So now you put your head in your hands, oh no

I said "Far out, what a day, a year, a laugh it is"

You know, well you know you had it comin' to you

Now there's not a lot I can do

[Kalbo]

I would welcome high speed rail, my last trip from Chiang Mai to BKK was about 14 hours on the "Express" train

But, at least you arrived alive

There a several derailments per year on the existing Thai system. The Chinese run a huge high speed network already, so keeping 2 lines in decent working order which will be essentially brand new shouldn't be beyond anyone.

It's not the Chinese I'm concerned about, it's the fact that it'll be under Thai control.

[khunken]

Unfortunately some of the posts so far are just knocking China irrationally. Their high-speed trains have a good record overall.

I suspect that the Chinese will heavily supervise & be involved in the actual construction & it certainly won't use existing rails.

The 2015 date is probably, as one poster said is probably the start of construction. China (& possibly the ADB) will provide soft loans for the project, meaning a grace period & lengthy repayment term so the Thai budget will not be affected in the short term. I'd say the land acquisition is a big issue that could take some time (& wide open to corruption).

I fully support this & will visit Chiang Mai more often when it goes live (& I'm alive too).

[skorchio]

BKK to CM train will have to run through the Chao Phraya valley / floodplain along much of its route. I am expecting these trains will be amphibious but I fail to see how 300km/hr will be maintained underwater.

[hellodolly]

Will drivers still try to beat the fast train at road crossing !,

there are lots of accidents with the slow trains,so this is

going to be something they are going to have to put a

lot of thought to......or maybe not.

regards Worgeordie

No thought needed. Bridges.

Also I think they are going to try to stay further away from some of the smaller population centers. But some one will try to beat them and lose.

[wpcoe]

At a rough estimate of the costs of US$16.6 billion and using an exchange rate of 60 Thb = US$1 that equals 498,000,000,000 baht or around half a TRILLION baht

Exchange rate B60 = US$1 ???

Actually, on second read, looks like you used a multiplier of 30, not 60. Darn. I was hoping for the return of such a nice (for expats) exchange rate.

[hellodolly]

China presses hard on high-speed rail projects in Thailand

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, Dec 8 – China has reaffirmed its determination to invest in a high-speed rail system in Thailand as clearly stated in an earlier memorandum of understanding (MoU).

Luo Chunfang, China’s deputy minister for railway, raised the issue in a meeting with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Friday and assured that an joint investment with China on the system would be much cheaper than with Germany or Japan.

According to the MoU signed on April 17 this year, Thailand and China will cooperate in the development of high-speed rail system on two routes: Bangkok-Chiang Mai, 677 km, and Bangkok-Nong Khai, 615 km.

Mr Luo said construction of high-speed rail by China costs US$20 million per km while the German system is US$50 million per km and Japan US$81 million per km.

It would take 6-7 years to finish while speeds can reach 250 km/hour or 300 km/hour, he said, adding that workers for the projects will be hired locally to spur domestic employment.

Ms Yingluck said she hoped the Thai-Chinese cooperation would materialise.

She asked the Chinese deputy minister to give priority to safety and take into consideration integration of Thailand’s existing rail system and development of communities and the environment along rail routes. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-08

Just a MOU. No promises or obligations.

China says 6 to 7 years to complete Thailand says two years.

Is this the same type of agrfement that they reached on the rice sale to China that no one has any details on.

[hansnl]

Construction of the initial stage of the railway project for the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route is scheduled to begin by the middle or second half of next year. The railway project for both routes will be completed until 2015.

Not sure what the last few words mean, but this is not a 2 year project.

Completely replacing the railway lines and building high speed tracks between the capital and the two northern cities is surely more like a 10 year project?

Perhaps someone with engineering knowledge might add something to this fantasy.

They won't be replacing the railway lines. The high speed tracks will be separate.

Indeed, HSL is built completely seperate from existing lines.

No road crossings, probably on pylons where possible

The existing rail lines are 1m gauge, the new lines will be standard 143.5 cm gauge.

If the plan is to open a 680 km line in 36 months, means that roughly 19 km must be built per month, which is doable.

Mostly because there are no problem with acquiring the land, nor with any other western problems.

The minister quoted a difference in prices for the China, Japan and German HSL systems.

Indeed, the prices mentioned are based on local costs.

If the German system was built in Thailand, or the French or Japanese, costs should be based on local costs, and then the huge price difference would disappear.

But no way this government will accept farang things.

Chinese it must be.

And what do we get?

Copies of copies of copies.

And yes, most derailments, accidents and misfortunes from the Chinese HSL are not published.

Like the maximum speed on most lines brought back from 300+ km/u to 200+ km/h

And please do not forget China wants it's rail system all over Asia.

Strategic thinking!

Edited December 8, 2012 by hansnl

[Pimay1]

I really like the idea of high speed rail services but I think this is one project that is going to go off the rails in very short time.

I'm not really into extreme sports, so think I'll take my chances on the bus

Yeah because the buses are so safe eh?

Is any mode of ground travel in this country safe?

[hellodolly]

The use of words is a bit miss leading I feel, I take it that the plan for the route will be in place by 2015 although some will read it as being built by then, which is impossible.

Chinese railways have copied europeon technology, a lot from the TGV trains of France but I am not sure the on board signaling works as well as it should, its to be hoped they went back and looked at that after the big crash of last year. It seems like it broadly going to run along a similar route to Pitsanoluk that the railway currently uses, good idea provided they remember that trains travelling at 250-300kph need long gentle curves and the track must go nowhere near any land that is likely to flood.

A positve move, let us all hope that it turns out as planned, if so I will look forward to using it.

I think you are onto some thing with the different time lines. Thailand claiming two years and China six to seven years. I think Thailand means they will have all the graft money in two years.

Thailand is not exactly noted for it's ability to think ahead other than how to extort more money.

[hellodolly]

I really like the idea of high speed rail services but I think this is one project that is going to go off the rails in very short time.

I'm not really into extreme sports, so think I'll take my chances on the bus

Yeah because the buses are so safe eh?

Some of the buses have tires as smooth as the wheels on a train.

[Pimay1]

Will drivers still try to beat the fast train at road crossing !,

there are lots of accidents with the slow trains,so this is

going to be something they are going to have to put a

lot of thought to......or maybe not.

regards Worgeordie

No thought needed. Bridges.

Will fishing be allowed from the bridges?

As if the locals care if it is allowed or not. Water = fish.

[hellodolly]

Construction of the initial stage of the railway project for the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route is scheduled to begin by the middle or second half of next year. The railway project for both routes will be completed until 2015.

Not sure what the last few words mean, but this is not a 2 year project.

Completely replacing the railway lines and building high speed tracks between the capital and the two northern cities is surely more like a 10 year project?

Perhaps someone with engineering knowledge might add something to this fantasy.

They won't be replacing the railway lines. The high speed tracks will be separate.

Indeed, HSL is built completely seperate from existing lines.

No road crossings, probably on pylons where possible

The existing rail lines are 1m gauge, the new lines will be standard 143.5 cm gauge.

If the plan is to open a 680 km line in 36 months, means that roughly 19 km must be built per month, which is doable.

Mostly because there are no problem with acquiring the land, nor with any other western problems.

The minister quoted a difference in prices for the China, Japan and German HSL systems.

Indeed, the prices mentioned are based on local costs.

If the German system was built in Thailand, or the French or Japanese, costs should be based on local costs, and then the huge price difference would disappear.

But no way this government will accept farang things.

Chinese it must be.

And what do we get?

Copies of copies of copies.

And yes, most derailments, accidents and misfortunes from the Chinese HSL are not published.

Like the maximum speed on most lines brought back from 300+ km/u to 200+ km/h

And please do not forget China wants it's rail system all over Asia.

Strategic thinking!

Many opinions such as

Chinese it must be.

And what do we get?

Copies of copies of copies.

Improvments on inprovments

Considering the difference in size of the Chinese population and the rest of the world that has High speed trains does any one have a stattistic on deaths per million of travelers. Or per Kilometer traveled. Or is it all just opinions.

[nong38]

How will the locals be able to throw their litter out of the windows at those speeds?

They will have to wait til the next station, I wonder if they save a bit of money by installing squat toilets instead of retention tanks, that should make the wheels of Thailands finances go round a bit better!

[whybother]

Many opinions such as

Chinese it must be.

And what do we get?

Copies of copies of copies.

Improvments on inprovments

Considering the difference in size of the Chinese population and the rest of the world that has High speed trains does any one have a stattistic on deaths per million of travelers. Or per Kilometer traveled. Or is it all just opinions.

http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/comparative-rail-safety/

[nong38]

re post 57 hellodolly. I would not trust any Chinese figures that were presented I would expect them to have been massaged, especially for Thailand.

As for the west you could try SNCF for the TGV network or Duechte (?) Bahn for the ICE from Germany.

The next batch of Eurostars will be built by Siemans using ICE technology rather than TGV technology that powered the current batch of 31 sets and the 16 smaller regional sets