Abhisit: I Will Fight Charge, Accept Any Outcome

[siampolee]

A picture they say is worth a thousand words, here's my offering below on the charges and the resultant legal (?) process.

[Pimay1]

>This is a typical ploy of Abhisit - trying to change the conversation. Whenever challenged about the 90+ deaths at R'song, he starts talking about "Men in Black". In this case, trying to re-direct the conversation about his legal status to "amnesty". Nothing to do with his predicament.

>It is true, the protesters occupied the middle of the city, and he felt compelled to restore order. But who was restoring order after the 2006 coup, an occupation of the country, which precipitated all of it. The disconnect between these two events is another 'change of conversation' by him, when seeking to link the protests with Thaksin assets seizure. The 2010 event was a coup-election thing. The so-called negotiation that wasn't, wasn't about 'assets', but about election timing.

>I think the term 'crackdown' is overused and does not describe historical reality. It implies legitimate use of State Power, when a political solution was easy, and hence rendered use of force illegitimate. There is never talk about a 'crackdown' on those who perpetrated a coup.

The occupation at Rachaprasong occured just 2 months after the court seized half of Thaksin's 84 billion baht.I suggest the two are related.

Apisit is a brave and articulate man.Compare his actions to the cowardly Thaksin,always running away, hiding in shopping malls when violence occured by his foot soldiers.

Not directly related but I do wonder when Chalerm,'there is no terrorism in Thailand' Youbamrung will resign.Did he not read about the two Buddhist teachers gunned down 2 days ago whilst their Muslim colleagues were left unharmed?

Thousands of red shirts began street protests in Bangkok in mid-March 2010, a little over a week after a court seized Bt46 billion in assets from Thaksin, found to have been obtained improperly.

Where I come from from 1+1 = 2. But I suppose this is too much for the thaksin/red shirt apologists on this forum to understand.

[MAJIC]

Abhisit stand up and be counted 'like a man',and if there is any justice in Thailand,get ready to pack your bags for a long holiday.

Abhisit already is standing up to be counted "like a man" So what's your nonsense point about?

Perhaps you mean't to say "Thaksin stand up and be counted like a man"and come back and face Criminal Charges and your awaiting 2 year Prison sentence!

[Pimay1]

We're straying off topic here but I'd like to point out that not only did the protesters, bystanders and journalists have a choice to be there, they had a RIGHT to be there. Similarly they had a RIGHT to protection from the authorities and not aggression. They had a right to be protected from any violent elements not simply branded as terrorists because a minority were acting like them.

Elections hadn't been promised prior to the protests and a late change of heart by Abhisit, only when faced with a mass occupation of the city, to grant the citizens their democratic right to vote (but only at a time of his choosing) didn't appease the situation.... perhaps too little, too late?

I'd also like to point out that I made a single post that actually addressed the topic at hand and gave my thoughts on Abhisit's interview with the BBC. Please don't disingenuously suggest that I'm repeating myself. This is the first time that I have written about Abhisit's show of mock bravado during the BBC interview being in bad taste given the deaths of so many in 2010 who didn't have the luxury of a trial or a platform to explain their motivation or actions.

How does anyone have the "right" to be at an illegal assembly?

Spot on. Illegal means against the law. But I suppose the PTP thinks illegal means something different if it suites their cause.

[Pimay1]

>This is a typical ploy of Abhisit - trying to change the conversation. Whenever challenged about the 90+ deaths at R'song, he starts talking about "Men in Black". In this case, trying to re-direct the conversation about his legal status to "amnesty". Nothing to do with his predicament.

>It is true, the protesters occupied the middle of the city, and he felt compelled to restore order. But who was restoring order after the 2006 coup, an occupation of the country, which precipitated all of it. The disconnect between these two events is another 'change of conversation' by him, when seeking to link the protests with Thaksin assets seizure. The 2010 event was a coup-election thing. The so-called negotiation that wasn't, wasn't about 'assets', but about election timing.

>I think the term 'crackdown' is overused and does not describe historical reality. It implies legitimate use of State Power, when a political solution was easy, and hence rendered use of force illegitimate. There is never talk about a 'crackdown' on those who perpetrated a coup.

The occupation at Rachaprasong occured just 2 months after the court seized half of Thaksin's 84 billion baht.I suggest the two are related.

Apisit is a brave and articulate man.Compare his actions to the cowardly Thaksin,always running away, hiding in shopping malls when violence occured by his foot soldiers.

Not directly related but I do wonder when Chalerm,'there is no terrorism in Thailand' Youbamrung will resign.Did he not read about the two Buddhist teachers gunned down 2 days ago whilst their Muslim colleagues were left unharmed?

Thousands of red shirts began street protests in Bangkok in mid-March 2010, a little over a week after a court seized Bt46 billion in assets from Thaksin, found to have been obtained improperly.

Sssst, don't mention that. Don't spoil the game. The red shirts were there because injustice was done to them, nothing to do with Thaksin.

Right and I am the King of Prussia.

[Pimay1]

It is a lot easier to face a court when you know that you have done nothing wrong.

Something not many in the PTP/Thaksin camp can do...

...but...but...but...the reds and Thaksin....

Stop stealing my line DocN . Come up with one of your own for peat's sake.

[AleG]

Thousands of red shirts began street protests in Bangkok in mid-March 2010, a little over a week after a court seized Bt46 billion in assets from Thaksin, found to have been obtained improperly.

Where I come from from 1+1 = 2. But I suppose this is too much for the thaksin/red shirt apologists on this forum to understand.

And the nearly daily bombings in Bangkok began two days after the court verdict, targeting a branch of one of the banks were the money was frozen.

[Martstar]

This can't backfire.

The Democrats are so deeply unpopular in the poorest regions of the country that this is a win-win for the government.

Guilty verdict satisfies Thaksin, the red shirts and their sympathisers, not-guilty (carefully spun) exposes the corruption in the court system and re-enforces that the elite, the coup-makers and their associates never go to jail.

It's brilliant politics from the master (underhanded admittedly). It also paves way to have all these niggling little 'politically motivated' guilty verdicts annulled.

Watch, and learn.

Disagree, It appears to me a lot of the farmers here in Issan are having buyers remorse in the current gov't they helped put in just over a year ago. I'm just repeating what I'm hearing on the streets.

Yes, once the rice scam and the flood scam all take its toll it will be the poor who suffer the most. Once the rice market is stuffed and they can not grow for a profit etc etc. But unfortunately many of these poor people will fall victim to the next person handing out the freebies.. paying them to vote, telling them they will be rich from growing their rice in a couple of years... or whatever else is devised to steal from them. They just do not learn, and will not learn because they too want to benefit from the corruption that cripples the country... they get offered a piece of it and they ca not help themselves, literally. It is a very sad state of affairs.

[DocN]

It is a lot easier to face a court when you know that you have done nothing wrong.

Something not many in the PTP/Thaksin camp can do...

...but...but...but...the reds and Thaksin....

Stop stealing my line DocN . Come up with one of your own for peat's sake.

I actually stole and modified MunterHunters line...but of course, I apologize for being so brilliantly quick!

[indyuk]

>This is a typical ploy of Abhisit - trying to change the conversation. Whenever challenged about the 90+ deaths at R'song, he starts talking about "Men in Black". In this case, trying to re-direct the conversation about his legal status to "amnesty". Nothing to do with his predicament.

>It is true, the protesters occupied the middle of the city, and he felt compelled to restore order. But who was restoring order after the 2006 coup, an occupation of the country, which precipitated all of it. The disconnect between these two events is another 'change of conversation' by him, when seeking to link the protests with Thaksin assets seizure. The 2010 event was a coup-election thing. The so-called negotiation that wasn't, wasn't about 'assets', but about election timing.

>I think the term 'crackdown' is overused and does not describe historical reality. It implies legitimate use of State Power, when a political solution was easy, and hence rendered use of force illegitimate. There is never talk about a 'crackdown' on those who perpetrated a coup.

Although former P M Abhisit is far from my idea of a competent politician I do feel sorry for him now. In his current circumstances I would strongly urge him to abandon his sense of infallibility and to not try to drag down others. The truth will serve him well in court. It is beyond the realms of possibility that the court would sentence him to death even if he be found accountable for the Taxi driver's death.

[MILT]

>This is a typical ploy of Abhisit - trying to change the conversation. Whenever challenged about the 90+ deaths at R'song, he starts talking about "Men in Black". In this case, trying to re-direct the conversation about his legal status to "amnesty". Nothing to do with his predicament.

>It is true, the protesters occupied the middle of the city, and he felt compelled to restore order. But who was restoring order after the 2006 coup, an occupation of the country, which precipitated all of it. The disconnect between these two events is another 'change of conversation' by him, when seeking to link the protests with Thaksin assets seizure. The 2010 event was a coup-election thing. The so-called negotiation that wasn't, wasn't about 'assets', but about election timing.

>I think the term 'crackdown' is overused and does not describe historical reality. It implies legitimate use of State Power, when a political solution was easy, and hence rendered use of force illegitimate. There is never talk about a 'crackdown' on those who perpetrated a coup.

Uh? You need to research the facts please. Thaskin perpetrated the coup by being a donkey.

Edited December 12, 2012 by MILT

[rubl]

19th May?

The army storming of the redshirt camp.

Yes it had all kicked off.

Was that one of the MIB throwing the grenade. I don't think so.

It's funny all those MIB and so why don't we have injured shot soldiers. Shot dead with identifiable bullets.

Where's the forensics?

The MIB's had guns didn't they?

1 soldier was shot dead but by his own side riding the borrowed motorcycle.

All we get are some grenades thrown, lobbed, fired or rolled as on April 10th.

Of course if we believed Suthep (and that's a big ask) The MIB were too busy shooting redshirts in a desperate ploy to blame the peace loving army (who fired 120,000 rounds in a thoroughly peaceful manner.)

Mind you Suthep also said that it was the redshirt's fault as they just kept running into the bullets.

This should all go to the ICC.

We have heard that there were orders to shoot the redshirt leadership issued and they subsequently surrendered to the police on the opposite side of the road.

2000 people sought sanctuary in the temple right next to Paragon where they were shot at.

What happened to the cars parked outside the temple?

They were riddled with bullets from the soldiers trying to shoot through them to shoot the redshirts hiding behind and underneath.

that would be some evidence for the ICC.

i liked the story of the temple boy mooning at the soldiers but that may have contributed to the deaths inside the temple.

We know the soldiers were furious when the redshirts behind the cars didn't surrender to them but ran into the temple.

So they shot up the temple. Pathetic.

Well, since you asked:

[backtonormal]

This can't backfire.

The Democrats are so deeply unpopular in the poorest regions of the country that this is a win-win for the government.

Guilty verdict satisfies Thaksin, the red shirts and their sympathisers, not-guilty (carefully spun) exposes the corruption in the court system and re-enforces that the elite, the coup-makers and their associates never go to jail.

It's brilliant politics from the master (underhanded admittedly). It also paves way to have all these niggling little 'politically motivated' guilty verdicts annulled.

Watch, and learn.

Yes let's watch and learn. At the moment AV is getting support from many corners because he is fighting his charges and not fleeing the country. People tend to sympathize with the underdog...

Please name people who are supporting him. This guy is not the Asian Mandela. I can stand on a soap box and bleat away about my innocence until the moment the final verdict arrives. He will be off. I will accept the death sentence..pass the tissue for <deleted> sake

[gl555]

This can't backfire.

The Democrats are so deeply unpopular in the poorest regions of the country that this is a win-win for the government.

Guilty verdict satisfies Thaksin, the red shirts and their sympathisers, not-guilty (carefully spun) exposes the corruption in the court system and re-enforces that the elite, the coup-makers and their associates never go to jail.

It's brilliant politics from the master (underhanded admittedly). It also paves way to have all these niggling little 'politically motivated' guilty verdicts annulled.

Watch, and learn.

Yes let's watch and learn. At the moment AV is getting support from many corners because he is fighting his charges and not fleeing the country. People tend to sympathize with the underdog...

Please name people who are supporting him. This guy is not the Asian Mandela. I can stand on a soap box and bleat away about my innocence until the moment the final verdict arrives. He will be off. I will accept the death sentence..pass the tissue for <deleted> sake

He may not be an Asian Mandela but at least he has the balls to stand trial. What about the other guy? The guy all the Reds seem to love. Oh yeah, he's sipping champagne somewhere laughing at the same people who are dumb enough to still support him. I mean really! The guy runs away like a bitch rather then stand trial and people still support him!

[rubl]

Please name people who are supporting him. This guy is not the Asian Mandela. I can stand on a soap box and bleat away about my innocence until the moment the final verdict arrives. He will be off. I will accept the death sentence..pass the tissue for <deleted> sake

As voting is anonymous I'm afraid I'm not allowed by law to name names here.The only thing I'm allowed to say is that about 11,433,762 people voted for the Democrats in the last election (versus 15,744,190 for Pheu Thai).

There is no Asean Mandela, although the Lady in Myanmar comes closest (IMHO). Mind you, 'this guy' (also known as ex-PM, or just K. Abhisit) has never said he's an Asian Mandela. Circumstances, influenced no doubt by Phue Thai acting on their masters voice, have lent k. Abhisit the opportunity to profile himself as righteous. Almost same like k. Thaksin before, before he went back on his promise to return immediately once the Olympic Games in Beijing were finished that is. K. Abhisit went to England on Saturday night, but came back already, did you know?

I'm sure you can stand on a soapbox, but I'm afraid no-one would really care. May I suggest you try it? Assuming you're in Bangkok I promise to drop by every day to bring some food and drink

Edited December 12, 2012 by rubl

[Skywalker69]

This can't backfire.

The Democrats are so deeply unpopular in the poorest regions of the country that this is a win-win for the government.

Guilty verdict satisfies Thaksin, the red shirts and their sympathisers, not-guilty (carefully spun) exposes the corruption in the court system and re-enforces that the elite, the coup-makers and their associates never go to jail.

It's brilliant politics from the master (underhanded admittedly). It also paves way to have all these niggling little 'politically motivated' guilty verdicts annulled.

Watch, and learn.

Yes let's watch and learn. At the moment AV is getting support from many corners because he is fighting his charges and not fleeing the country. People tend to sympathize with the underdog...

Please name people who are supporting him. This guy is not the Asian Mandela. I can stand on a soap box and bleat away about my innocence until the moment the final verdict arrives. He will be off. I will accept the death sentence..pass the tissue for <deleted> sake

He may not be an Asian Mandela but at least he has the balls to stand trial. What about the other guy? The guy all the Reds seem to love. Oh yeah, he's sipping champagne somewhere laughing at the same people who are dumb enough to still support him. I mean really! The guy runs away like a bitch rather then stand trial and people still support him!

hope he gets sand in his shoes.

[longway]

NickyMaster said:

"Please tell me what they cannot do? I agree that they can do more if there would be no courts at all.

1 example: Have you followed the rice scheme? Probably the largest corruption case in Thai history. Hundreds of billions of bahts are being stolen as we speak..Please don't try to say that PT is ham-strung because of the army. They are corrupt as hell. We can all see that."

So we see figures banded about for the huge cost of the rice scheme (designed to guarantee farmers a decent price for their produce I might add) but the opponents go on and on about the cost to buy fail to mention that the government can also sell this rice.

So let's wait and see what they pay for the rice and what they sell it for.

Let's see what they get for it.

Probably a bit too objective and logical for most of the forum...........

Not too sure why this is in this particular thread, but do you 2 realise that the government cannot export any of the rice it its stockpile for less than the price they paid for it? And given that total global exports are in the region of 40 million tonnes a year and by the end of next year the thai governement will hold more than 20 million tonnes of rice, well what could possibly go wrong?

Edited December 13, 2012 by longway