Love Thailand Dearly, But Reevaluating Having A Business Here

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I can see that's inconvenient for some, but why would anyone need to leave the country at all to apply for a new visa when working here long time for the same business/company .... ?

I haven't seen the inside of a Thai embassy or consulate in 14 years.

Sure, if you want to become stagnant in your career and never move on to a better company/ salary.

Your last day of working at Company A, your work permit is cancelled and your visa is nullified. You have 7 days to leave the country. At this point, Company B will usually have you fly down to Malaysia and start the new visa process there, so that you can re-enter the country. I *think* this is also possible in Singapore, but KL is "more easier" for whatever reason.

Last time I changed jobs I didn't leave the country either; got a new work permit of course, but my stay was extended without leaving the country or visiting an embassy.

Edited December 17, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think the new goverment mandate of 300 baht poer day is vote buying, pure and simple. I also feel it will be difficult to enforce, and then enforced selectively- against foreign business owners.

?

It's super easy to enforce. Every employee receives a salary slip, that includes tax deduction (very little of course in that salary range) and social insurance deduction. So the tax office knows exactly how much is paid.

Where it may be harder to enforce is for things like maids and gardeners, or very small noodle shops and the like. But still the factor is not if it's foreign-owned or not, that's just rubbish. What matters if it's a proper business needing to have proper accounting; every one of those is very easy to audit.

[Ulysses G.]

And besides the tax on 60K (wasn't it 65K) isn't all that much, especially considering that you also get pretty useful social health insurance.

It all depends on how much a business is actually making, but these days - with far fewer affluent Western tourists - for many of us, every baht counts.

My book keeper told me that the foreign owner of a business can't get the social insurance. If she is wrong, I would like to know.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[cmsally]

And besides the tax on 60K (wasn't it 65K) isn't all that much, especially considering that you also get pretty useful social health insurance.

It all depends on how much a business is actually making, but these days - with far fewer affluent Western tourists - for many of us, every baht counts.

My book keeper told me that the foreign owner of a business can't get the social insurance. If she is wrong, I would like to know.

It is not just foreign owners. Any owner of a business can't get the social insurance, whether Thai or foreign. Some were on it before they owned a business, as far as I know thats OK. Maybe you can work for another business whilst owning one and claim it that way, not sure.

[cloudhopper]

I think the new goverment mandate of 300 baht poer day is vote buying, pure and simple.

With that point I agree.

[bluweyze]

And besides the tax on 60K (wasn't it 65K) isn't all that much, especially considering that you also get pretty useful social health insurance.

It all depends on how much a business is actually making, but these days - with far fewer affluent Western tourists - for many of us, every baht counts.

My book keeper told me that the foreign owner of a business can't get the social insurance. If she is wrong, I would like to know.

Directors of a company cannot receive social security, be they Thai or foreign. Your book keeper is correct but incomplete. It also works on the Thai wife of a director who is refused social security.

[Happyman108]

Anyone here is living on 9000 baht a month?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Directors of a company cannot receive social security, be they Thai or foreign. Your book keeper is correct but incomplete. It also works on the Thai wife of a director who is refused social security.

Could it be 'shareholders', not directors? Could be a new regulation though because there is something now with relatives of owners/shareholders. Had to jump through some hoops to get my mum in law covered.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyone here is living on 9000 baht a month?

I am. Almost all of it is party money though, with room and board being free.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think the new goverment mandate of 300 baht poer day is vote buying, pure and simple.

With that point I agree.

Well, when 'vote buying' meant 'handing out 500 baht notes at election parties' people were complaining. Now Thailand is moving on to the tried and tested Western model of 'making promises, to be fulfilled after the election' and still people are complaining. It's a weakness of the democratic model: two wolves and a chicken voting on what's for dinner.

Edited December 18, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It is not just foreign owners. Any owner of a business can't get the social insurance, whether Thai or foreign. Some were on it before they owned a business, as far as I know thats OK. Maybe you can work for another business whilst owning one and claim it that way, not sure.

You can. That's how you get coverage for your parents, by putting them on the payroll of a friend's company, and vice versa.

Not a very nice law by the way, especially in Asia where family often fulfils very legitimate roles in a small business, having to work really hard for just moderate income in many cases. This law is un-Asian, anti-family and anti-people by making access to healthcare harder.

Edited December 18, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Gonzo the Face]

One formula for MAKING IT

Take a moment for some serious thinking.

If you were an individual, [goes for groups of individuals also] who was understood by others as a self centered, ego maniac, with unlimited greed, but of course not acknowledged as such by yourself, and it became time to go out and seek your fame and fortune, where would you start?

Consider this scenario.

Start in a country of modest population size, not to large in population number, but sizable enough that the numbers would allow each person individually be able to contribute to your goal financially by contributing a small amount of their wealth while not having too many complaints. ... And of course not the smaller size country that would have too small a population and therefore not sufficient numbers to compile [by individual contribution] the financial mother lode you desire.

Start in a country where there is a considerable education gap related to percentage of population. In other words a country where maybe the top 15-20 percent of population is reasonably educated by standards of this country, but also the same country having the remaining [majority] maybe 80 percent of the population, really poorly and/or under educated and malleable.

Start in a country , where your charisma would allow you to become a known and noted figure by appearing to help some of the lower level citizens in your community [at their own expense of course] by making enough friends, with your glib tongue, to elect you to represent them on a local level. When in this elected position, convince the lower level citizens how much you are doing for their benefit with the tax income of your local government, while , of course, paying yourself and your inner circle a handsome service fee. Do the great PR work on the few that receive, while disavowing the numbers who complain that they are not reaping any of the promised benefits, and maybe even forsaking some of the benefits they heretofore had.

Start in a country where as time goes on you can increase the geographical scope of your fiefdom to match that of the expanded size of your ego. ...... And if all goes well and according to plan soon you are at a national level.

You are now in a country that is really controlled by your group, while funded by the lower level citizenry through their tax remittance. You take in a thousand baht , spend a third of it on country operations , a third of it in re-seeding the fields of lower level perception of good and the final third just disappears.

Your control group, talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk, only perception of walking the walk. The better the perception, the longer the image lasts.

Corruption remains rampant.

Laws are passed , but not enforced, or enforced only in times of convenience.

Make or keep things very difficult for anyone from the outside to come in and start a business as they may very well rock your boat so to speak.

...... and if you ever get into this position of power , fight like there is no tomorrow to retain it.

Now all we have to do is find a country that fits the bill.

Any suggestions anyone ??

[mamborobert]

Thatcherite England with it's no so comprehensive comprehensive education system?

Marcos and pretty much every subsequent President in the PI.?

Edited December 18, 2012 by mamborobert

[cloudhopper]

Any suggestions anyone ??

Well my suggestion is that the sooner we all realize, whether we are doing business here or not, that we live in a country with a feudal, corrupt, uneducated and predatory culture the better prepared we will be to realistically deal with it. Cognitive dissonance is a real bitch.

[ThePunPun]

" Cognitive dissonance is a real bitch "

Dang it Hoppy, don't use such big words........ can you please define real bitch.....

[BillyBobThai]

Winnie, you forgot to mention the fact that the Chicken is packing a 44 magnum. It helps to even out things.

[2020]

One formula for MAKING IT

Take a moment for some serious thinking.

If you were an individual, [goes for groups of individuals also] who was understood by others as a self centered, ego maniac, with unlimited greed, but of course not acknowledged as such by yourself, and it became time to go out and seek your fame and fortune, where would you start?

Consider this scenario.

Start in a country of modest population size, not to large in population number, but sizable enough that the numbers would allow each person individually be able to contribute to your goal financially by contributing a small amount of their wealth while not having too many complaints. ... And of course not the smaller size country that would have too small a population and therefore not sufficient numbers to compile [by individual contribution] the financial mother lode you desire.

Start in a country where there is a considerable education gap related to percentage of population. In other words a country where maybe the top 15-20 percent of population is reasonably educated by standards of this country, but also the same country having the remaining [majority] maybe 80 percent of the population, really poorly and/or under educated and malleable.

Start in a country , where your charisma would allow you to become a known and noted figure by appearing to help some of the lower level citizens in your community [at their own expense of course] by making enough friends, with your glib tongue, to elect you to represent them on a local level. When in this elected position, convince the lower level citizens how much you are doing for their benefit with the tax income of your local government, while , of course, paying yourself and your inner circle a handsome service fee. Do the great PR work on the few that receive, while disavowing the numbers who complain that they are not reaping any of the promised benefits, and maybe even forsaking some of the benefits they heretofore had.

Start in a country where as time goes on you can increase the geographical scope of your fiefdom to match that of the expanded size of your ego. ...... And if all goes well and according to plan soon you are at a national level.

You are now in a country that is really controlled by your group, while funded by the lower level citizenry through their tax remittance. You take in a thousand baht , spend a third of it on country operations , a third of it in re-seeding the fields of lower level perception of good and the final third just disappears.

Your control group, talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk, only perception of walking the walk. The better the perception, the longer the image lasts.

Corruption remains rampant.

Laws are passed , but not enforced, or enforced only in times of convenience.

Make or keep things very difficult for anyone from the outside to come in and start a business as they may very well rock your boat so to speak.

...... and if you ever get into this position of power , fight like there is no tomorrow to retain it.

Now all we have to do is find a country that fits the bill.

Any suggestions anyone ??

First read Animal Farm by George Orwell (a longer version of the above), then be awoken to the realisation all countries fit the bill.

[wigantojapan]

Gonzo has valid concerns.

Simply raising prices to cover the increase in salary as a percentage of overall costs is limited thinking.

Your suppliers will increase their costs. Your delivery fees will go up because someone has to pay their drivers more and cover their costs. etc etc.

So, in reality, you may have significant increases across your P&L that will force you to either absorb them in your bottom line or increase your prices to cover the upstream increases that have been passed on to you.

Bottom line is that this 300baht increase mandated by the Government was ill conceived and poorly thought through. But it worked. It rallied the masses around a massive pay increase that the Government did not have to fund.

Brilliant.

Very well said it is not only the increased wages you pay your employes it is also the increased cost you pay for products. Net result is higher cost of living. It is inevitable. Also there will be businesses going out of business. Result unemployment. They say that will not be a problem being as there is a shortage of workers all ready. But how does a dish washer suddenly become a electrician or plummer. NOT.

The government should be looking for a way to hold down inflation as well as give employes a better wage. One of the ways they could do this would be to eliminate the red tape and graft that a employer must go through there by allowing him more money to pay his staff. This would also include corruption in the elected officials which does nothing but add to the taxes a employer must pay.

What is the use of higher wages if you can not purchase any more things with them than you can with what you are already earning? The people who pass these laws will the increase in wages even slightly make a difference to them with the amount of money they are making the price increases will not even be noticed.

many plummers electricians are dishwashers,,havent you noticed that Thai peole are multi functunal.

food is too cheap and the farmers are the ones who are hit the most

the niddle men make all the money with only the sweat of turning the keys to the truck

[Dean1953]

If you want to relocate your business in Burma, I'd buy malaria drugs in Thailand and not Burma. It turns out that Thailand is concerned about an outbreak of malaria near its border with Burma. The Burmese government has been diluting the malaria drugs for years and have caused a super virus to develop that is resistant to many malaria drugs. Do you really want to trust the Burmese government to do the right thing for its citizens?

[THAIJAMES]

And besides the tax on 60K (wasn't it 65K) isn't all that much, especially considering that you also get pretty useful social health insurance.

It all depends on how much a business is actually making, but these days - with far fewer affluent Western tourists - for many of us, every baht counts.

My book keeper told me that the foreign owner of a business can't get the social insurance. If she is wrong, I would like to know.

If you are on a work permit, you are paying social security, which entitles you to have social insurance. This entitles you to health care and even monthly retirement income if you have worked a certain number of years.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I have had a business in Thailand for more than 10 years. I would probably not do it again. I love living here, but I don't like doing business in Thailand. Apart from the question of legal ownership, where the Thai law puts foreigners at a significant disadvantage, it is difficult to recruit qualified personnel in my industry (information technology) in Thailand, and the cultural peculiarities make management extra challenging. So, thanks but no thanks.

Regarding the controversial wage increases prescribed by the incumbent government, I think it is necessary, but irreconcilable with the education policy of the last decade. Wages can only increase if workforce becomes more educated and efficient, which is IMHO not the case in Thailand. The neglect of the education system has led to a situation where Thailand missed the boat to a knowledge based economy. It's therefore likely that the wage increases will merely reduce Thailand's competitiveness and spur inflation.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[CMX]

Gonzo has earlier documented increases in business costs due to inflation (not a few of them, involving food, impact the mass of citizens here).

Ulysses has for some years made mention of a reduction in tourism and by implication his degree of trade.

Other contributors have speculated about packing up.

Thus, increases of any costs - including salaries - can add to serious difficulties in their businesses, or if not theirs, some like them.

Government efforts to redress the great inequalities of standards of living here (higher taxes on the establishments' vastly wealthy, such as a graduated property tax, being impractical from the point of view of avoiding a military response and yellow-shirt airport closings) - a say that this minimum wage increase will harm most of all those businesses with a narrow or threatened profit margin, particularly if they are those that must report (includes foreign owned). Most of these owners are aware that their public is on a price alert. (How many times have we here resolved issues in favor of the Cheap Charlie solution?)

As for paperwork, procedural roadblocks, tea money in big bags, and police as judge and jury in many matters: These just persist and shall do so in various guises.

????Ecuador? Columbia? Situation here for falang owned business ain't gonna change soon.

PS - Notion that minimum wages don't work for low wage earners is nonsense. At least for some years, or decades inflation at that bottom dwelling level of purchasing power cannot possibly almost double.

PPS - I think it important to note that both groups of leaders here fight hard to make exports exceed imports by a great deal. Import duties and all, except through some carefully negotiated Asean agreements. The partys' essential difference has to do with distribution of wealth, which here, as everywhere, will persist worldwide until we're all gone somewhere else, one way or another. Zealots on both sides aside, parties agree on a great deal, including the situation for foreigners, as foreigners, here. Almost xenophobic.

Edited December 19, 2012 by CMX

[elephantkungfu]

_{I would love to force all of those people opposed to the 300 baht wage to actually live off 250 baht a day themselves and see how long they can last. Not very long i bet. It is a pathetic amount. Even 300 baht a day is next to nothing. It is about time pay structures become fairer.}

[ThePunPun]

Did anyone ever answer the question as to how many nails there to nail the coffin lid????

So here, boys and girls, is the nail of the week......Have not thought it all the way through or seen the statute, but I can't help but feel its not good news.

[DLock]

_{I would love to force all of those people opposed to the 300 baht wage to actually live off 250 baht a day themselves and see how long they can last. Not very long i bet. It is a pathetic amount. Even 300 baht a day is next to nothing. It is about time pay structures become fairer.}

Did you even read the thread?

[Gonzo the Face]

Did anyone ever answer the question as to how many nails there to nail the coffin lid????

So here, boys and girls, is the nail of the week......Have not thought it all the way through or seen the statute, but I can't help but feel its not good news.

Sorry ...... forgot to put in link

http://www.thaivisa....-share-capital/

[mania]

Did anyone ever answer the question as to how many nails there to nail the coffin lid????

So here, boys and girls, is the nail of the week......Have not thought it all the way through or seen the statute, but I can't help but feel its not good news.

Sorry ...... forgot to put in link

http://www.thaivisa....-share-capital/

Was wondering if I had a missing page

BTW: Linky no Worky

[Ulysses G.]

BTW: Linky no Worky

[Gonzo the Face]

Did anyone ever answer the question as to how many nails there to nail the coffin lid????

So here, boys and girls, is the nail of the week......Have not thought it all the way through or seen the statute, but I can't help but feel its not good news.

Sorry ...... forgot to put in link

http://www.thaivisa....-share-capital/

Was wondering if I had a missing page

BTW: Linky no Worky

Here is a copy of the clip in the daily news posted by webfact for Thursday the 20th

Its a Thai Visa clip, so I see no reason for it not to work ..

Posted Today, 11:13

New requirement for new Thai companies: Paid-up share capital

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....-share-capital/

Like This

Report

[harrry]

Did anyone ever answer the question as to how many nails there to nail the coffin lid????

So here, boys and girls, is the nail of the week......Have not thought it all the way through or seen the statute, but I can't help but feel its not good news.

Sorry ...... forgot to put in link

http://www.thaivisa....-share-capital/

Was wondering if I had a missing page

BTW: Linky no Worky

Here is a copy of the clip in the daily news posted by webfact for Thursday the 20th

Its a Thai Visa clip, so I see no reason for it not to work ..

Posted Today, 11:13

New requirement for new Thai companies: Paid-up share capital

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....-share-capital/

Like This

Report

this is the link you posted

www.thaivisa....-share-capital/

note it has dots in place of some of the address