Na And Pa Correct Useage

[TravelerEastWest]

I have two small children who speak Thai and a Thai wife she always uses na or pa in relation to her age when introducing women to my children.

So if a women is older than her she will use pa even though I am older than my wife and often older than the women introduced as Pa.

So my question is when is my age (instead of my wife's younger age) used as a reference point in Thai language for na and pa?

[patri]

No, if those women are her friends and not your friend, your age is irrelevant.

If they're both, then it may be more complicated.

[Mole]

There's really no strict rules and it can be complicated if there's a huge age difference between you. But most of the time, she would probably chose to call any older acquaintances using "pa" in order to give them seniority.

If there's a huge age gap between you, most of her senior friends would be your junior. However, it would still be more appropriate for her to use a senior title for her older friends than junior.

[sbk]

Na and Ba are, strictly speaking, uncle or aunt

Na is the mother's younger brother or sister

Ah is the father's younger brother or sister

Ba is either parents' older sister

Loong is either parents' older brother

Now, if these are distant relatives then they will know the exact relationship and know the correct term. If they are her friends it doesn't really have alot to do with you it would be more appropriate with your friends. For example. your best friend Jimmy comes to visit and you introduce him to your child as "Uncle Jimmy". So if Jimmy were younger than you he would be Ah Jimmy. Older; Loong Jimmy.

[Richard W]

Now, if these are distant relatives then they will know the exact relationship and know the correct term.

So what is the correct name prefix for the husband of a younger sister of one's maternal grandmother? My wife was stumped on that one.

[TravelerEastWest]

No, if those women are her friends and not your friend, your age is irrelevant.

If they're both, then it may be more complicated.

Actually, most of the time it is our staff.

And my real question is what my children should say?

Up to now the wife always uses her age as the deciding factor.

In an amusing old -fashioned way I feel a man's home is his castle (smiling) and my age should be taken into consideration for staff and aquaintances - for actual family we can use my wife's point of view.

[TravelerEastWest]

it would be more appropriate with your friends. For example. your best friend Jimmy comes to visit and you introduce him to your child as "Uncle Jimmy".

So if Jimmy were younger than you he would be Ah Jimmy. Older; Loong Jimmy.

Sounds good.

Now what if the relationship is equal? As in my wife and I work togther in the family business? (This is the actual case)

Do my children use my wife's age or my age as the reference point?

Also I have a problem with P an B in Thai I often get confused.

As another refernce point what do you call the River in Chiang Mai - Ping or Bing?

[Briggsy]

If your kids refer to somebody as Na Daeng because your wife has introduced this as the way to address Daeng and

if you talk to the kids in English,

then you don't need to worry about it because you just call her Auntie Daeng or Daeng to the kids, whichever you feel is more appropriate when using English. (Honorifics being less common in English).

However if you use Thai with the kids, then you will probably have to follow your wife's lead and she is เจ้าของภาษา and that is the way it is.

[Briggsy]

Since it your own thread, you can sidetrack it!

The P in Pa (aunt) and Ping (the river) is an unaspirated unvoiced P. The nearest to it in English is the p in 'spy'. It is not a b.

[sbk]

it would be more appropriate with your friends. For example. your best friend Jimmy comes to visit and you introduce him to your child as "Uncle Jimmy".

So if Jimmy were younger than you he would be Ah Jimmy. Older; Loong Jimmy.

Sounds good.

Now what if the relationship is equal? As in my wife and I work togther in the family business? (This is the actual case)

Do my children use my wife's age or my age as the reference point?

Also I have a problem with P an B in Thai I often get confused.

As another refernce point what do you call the River in Chiang Mai - Ping or Bing?

Your kids would refer to your wife as mother. I refer to my MIL as mother as well.

[TravelerEastWest]

Since it your own thread, you can sidetrack it!

The P in Pa (aunt) and Ping (the river) is an unaspirated unvoiced P. The nearest to it in English is the p in 'spy'. It is not a b.

Thank you!

[TravelerEastWest]

"Your kids would refer to your wife as mother. I refer to my MIL as mother as well."

I may not have been clear I am asking what my childern call women who in this case are staff but could be friends etc. in Thai Na or Pa?

Where I am older than my wife.

So if the title is in reference to myself my age will determine Na or Pa.

If in reference to my younger wife her age willd determine Na or Pa.

Currently my wife uses her age as the reference apparently with the logic that she is Thai - which seems strange hence this post for a better understanding.

[sbk]

Most likely in reference to your wife, sorry I thought you meant how your kids would refer to your wife.

[TravelerEastWest]

So does no one have a certain answer?

I would assume that since I am older I would be the reference point.

If no one knows the answer for sure what would be the next step in researching this question?

Perhaps asking the Thai teachers at my childrens school?

Edited December 18, 2012 by TravelerEastWest

[sbk]

Now, if these are distant relatives then they will know the exact relationship and know the correct term.

So what is the correct name prefix for the husband of a younger sister of one's maternal grandmother? My wife was stumped on that one.

Na

DH has a 'cousin ' whose grandfather was the younger brother, while my husband's grandfather was the older brother. Despite the fact that he is well over 15 years older than either one of us he is "Nong"

go figure.

As for these women, if they are your wife's friends and most likely they are, then it would be in reference to your wife, not you.

[swlondonmum]

We are in the slightly unusual situation of my Thai husband being a fair bit younger than me. To be honest I have always gone along with 'their' system which usually means everything is in reference to my husband's age. I don't think they consider me, not becausr I am a woman but because I am not Thai. Fine by me - it's their language and their system' andI'm happy with what seems natural to them. I'd never even noticed before to be honest but I guess there were times when my husband called a guy 'loong' who was younger than me (including staff (in UK) mutual friends but still more his friends as they were Thai).I did ask him why people never called me Pi when I am older but he said that it's quite normal for Thai's not to use their naming conventions with non Thais.

But I'm happy to not be reminded i'm an older woman - may be different for a guy! I dont usually say 'Pi' about someone that he would call Pi who is younger than me (eg cousin/sister/friend)to be honest I just say their name rather than Pi or Nong and that seems to work fine

In a similar way I told my husband when he speaks English he should not call his step mum his sister (i guess he translates it from Pi as she's not much older than him) as it sounds weird in English??

.

Edited December 18, 2012 by swlondonmum

[Richard W]

DH has a 'cousin ' whose grandfather was the younger brother, while my husband's grandfather was the older brother. Despite the fact that he is well over 15 years older than either one of us he is "Nong"

go figure.

It makes sense as a matter of ranking - elder ranks higher, and the ranking of the cousins is derived from the grandfathers'.

As for these women, if they are your wife's friends and most likely they are, then it would be in reference to your wife, not you.

I assumed the choices were 'na' and 'lung'. I wasn't sure whether the generation difference affected the choice. I think I'm younger than my wife's elder sister. As it doesn't, how are the younger siblings of ta (maternal grandfather) and ya (paternal grandmother) addressed?

[meadish_sweetball]

how are the younger siblings of ta (maternal grandfather) and ya (paternal grandmother) addressed?

This may well not be valid for people in other parts of Thailand, and you may already have an answer to this one, but I'm throwing it in all the same: In our mueang family, both older and younger siblings of my son's maternal grandmother refer to themselves as and are referred to as 'ta [nickname]' and 'yaay [nickname]'.

[sbk]

Yes, thats correct, There is no word for great aunt or great uncle, I have a young great niece who calls me Yai. Very depressing.

[sbk]

I should add that I am the wife of the little girl's paternal grandfather's younger brother. How is that for confusing!

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