How Would You Have Liked To Be One Of The Ranong 12 ?

[Tippaporn]

When I moved here in 2002 I worked for an international company. My entry visa was for 30 days but we were so busy that our general manager (an American) didn't want me to leave when it expired. I was scheduled to fly to Taiwan to apply for a B-visa but it was postponed a few times. He made light of overstaying, mentioning it was merely 200 baht/day. I took him on his word since I figured he had years of experience in Thailand. I overstayed about 10 days but didn't get hassled at all at the airport.

Would I have been pissed had I been caught and thrown in jail for 12 days? You bet. But I didn't.

I don't thumb my nose at the law here, and make it a point to insure that my activities are always legal. It's simply not worth suffering unknown consequences (TIT), worst case being deported and blacklisted.

Indo-Siam raises a good point about the 90-day reporting rule. I have ignored that one and the Ranong 12 are starting to make me wonder whether not reporting is such a wise thing. Just curious, but of the sticklers who can't empathize with the Ranong 12 how many of them abide by the reporting law?

Edited February 18, 2006 by Tippaporn

[Stephen Cleary]

It can be argued that the Ranong 12 were not breaking the law and that the arresting police officers had 'taken the law into their own hands'

The lead above on 'Immigration Law' written by Thai-Visa doesn't quite tell the whole the story.

Let us first look at the Thai word 'morp tua' (to surrender). The lead above by Thai-Visa explains that 'surrender' in terms of Immigration Law means 'getting to the border'.

Besides just 'surrender' there is 'in the process of surrender'. To be legally in the "process of surrender" one has only to prove that he is "about to surrender" to the governing authorities.

Perhaps our readers can remember the story of 'Duangchalerm' and his once-popular father a 'Bang Bon' MP going by the name of 'Chalerm'. One reason his father was able to get around the law for so long was exactly 'in the process of surrender'.

It could be argued therefore that getting on a Visa-Run bus to the border is 'in the process of surrendering' and thus - the Ranong 12 were not violating the law.

The police however could simply say that 'getting on a bus to the border' is not surrendering themselves to the authorities. ie....the Ranong 12 were going shopping instead of hopping across the border.

If any of the Ranong 12 had informed any police officials or been given advice by any Police to 'simply go to the border' to clear an overstay. That person had clearly not broken the law.

Perhaps any specialist on Thai law here at TV could go even further than that.

[Sing_Sling]

I think the thing you may be missing is the fact that for as long as anyone can remember, if you do over stay your visa - which is a stupid thing to do, we all agree - you have been charged 200 bat a day.

Not locked up.

Which seems a bit harsh.

What I'm missing is that one would want to take any sort of chances with a police force that is so clearly arbitrary and corrupt.

[billd766]

Could you have been caught on that visa run bus, with an expired visa ?

How about those of us who have a legal wife, possibly a kid or two ? (i Have one (wife) and a kid !))

To me it's obviously the beginning of the plan to seed out "quality" tourists (quote Thaksin) from the ones that are just not affluent enough to be welcome here !

Thoughts, anyone ?

Mike

1 No I would not have been caught with an expired visa.

2 I have a legal wife and son and I went to the UK and forgot to get a re-entry visa, totally my own fault. I went to Suan Phlu about a week early and they said sorry but you have to start your support visa all over again. So I had to go on a visa run which I did with a couple of days to spare. Before I was able to go out of country and get a proper visa in Penang my wife had our son 6 weeks early, so it was another quick over the border trip.

Then I went to Penang and did it properly and now I am fully legal again with a support visa for my wife and son and yes I do report every 90 days plus or minus 7 days.

Sometimes it is a pain but I always do it because as many people have said on this thread and others, we are guests of the country and we should play by their rules even if we don't like it.

Yes I also keep the boys in brown happy now and again if the need arises because I like a quiet and peaceful life here up country.

If you have a legal wife and son why not look at getting a support visa, valid for a year at a time, report every 90 days even by post is possible and no need to make a border run every month.

[Noel]

It can be argued that the Ranong 12 were not breaking the law and that the arresting police officers had 'taken the law into their own hands'

The lead above on 'Immigration Law' written by Thai-Visa doesn't quite tell the whole the story.

Let us first look at the Thai word 'morp tua' (to surrender). The lead above by Thai-Visa explains that 'surrender' in terms of Immigration Law means 'getting to the border'.

Besides just 'surrender' there is 'in the process of surrender'. To be legally in the "process of surrender" one has only to prove that he is "about to surrender" to the governing authorities.

Perhaps our readers can remember the story of 'Duangchalerm' and his once-popular father a 'Bang Bon' MP going by the name of 'Chalerm'. One reason his father was able to get around the law for so long was exactly 'in the process of surrender'.

It could be argued therefore that getting on a Visa-Run bus to the border is 'in the process of surrendering' and thus - the Ranong 12 were not violating the law.

The police however could simply say that 'getting on a bus to the border' is not surrendering themselves to the authorities. ie....the Ranong 12 were going shopping instead of hopping across the border.

If any of the Ranong 12 had informed any police officials or been given advice by any Police to 'simply go to the border' to clear an overstay. That person had clearly not broken the law.

The Ranong 12 had already overstayed.

Whatever their intentions were thereafter is irrelevant: they had already broken the law and no amount of hypothetical analysis can change that simple fact.

[fatter than harry]

But as the accepted punishment for such actions is 200 baht a day you'd agree that 12 days in Jail was harsh, right?

[Sing_Sling]

But as the accepted punishment for such actions is 200 baht a day you'd agree that 12 days in Jail was harsh, right?

Accepted? By whom?

Again, I find it totally incomrehensible to play with the law in a place like Thailand.

[ilyushin]

Overstay and you pay. Very simple.

[Noel]

But as the accepted punishment for such actions is 200 baht a day you'd agree that 12 days in Jail was harsh, right?

The question is somewhat academic, as they were not in jail for 12 days.

[Stephen Cleary]

The Ranong 12 had already overstayed.

Whatever their intentions were thereafter is irrelevant: they had already broken the law and no amount of hypothetical analysis can change that simple fact.

Geez....if this Pattaya boy had actually read what i had written!

According to well-informed sources in my home province ie....... (Thai people in the know of Thai Law) i learnt today that that "Yes' i was right, the Ranong 12 were probably not breaking the law and would have a good cause, in a court of law, if they wished to file for damages against the arresting officer and The Royal Thai Police.

There intentions thereafter is irrelevant well exactly....not! Before posting a comment it is recommended to read the post you wish to comment on first.

As i already wrote "It could be argued that........"

Edited February 19, 2006 by stevesuphan

[solo siam]

The Ranong 12 had already overstayed.

Whatever their intentions were thereafter is irrelevant: they had already broken the law and no amount of hypothetical analysis can change that simple fact.

Geez....if this Pattaya boy had actually read what i had written!

According to well-informed sources in my home province ie....... (Thai people in the know of Thai Law) i learnt today that that "Yes' i was right, the Ranong 12 were probably not breaking the law and would have a good cause, in a court of law, if they wished to file for damages against the arresting officer and The Royal Thai Police.

There intentions thereafter is irrelevant well exactly....not! Before posting a comment it is recommended to read the post you wish to comment on first.

As i already wrote "It could be argued that........"

Codswallop

Overstaying your Visa is of course against the law, especially so in Thailand.

The punishment for overstaying is not 200 baht a day, it is prison and axpulsion from the country - However immigration offer an amnesty by paying 200 baht a day on exit, Its not the legal punishment.

Besides I really dont get it, 12 out of how many Visa extenders (lets say 48) had visas that had run-out, thats 25% - Why do a visa run a day after your visa has run out, I cant beleive such a large margin of people would have just forgotten etc... especially as all where within a few days of there visas running out.

[dannishgung]

Thailand 30 days only visa policy has backfired. Thai government only thinks about the short term profits from extorting fees from longer visas, re-entry permits,ect from we foreigners, then they fail to realize they will lose more money from tourism to their rival neighbours such as Malaysia and Singapore which both give out 90 days on arrival for citizens of civilized nations. In fact Malaysia has overtaken thai by a big margin in total arrivals. http://www.world-tourism.org/facts/menu.html

And more and more people who want to long stay or retire in Asia are switching to Malaysia from Thailand for the inexpensiveness, safety, and of course visa friendly. Thailand in fact is the only nation along with communist China that do not offer 90-180 arrivals for citizens of civilized nations in the top 20 destinations,thai is ranked 18th.

Thailand depends on more to tourism than any of the top 20 tourism nations, because they have no other alternative industries, and they are destroying tourism very quickly by themselves. After all these tourists murder and assualts, all these visa limitations and restrictions, I think Malaysia will be very very happy to take over as the top destination of Asia(which is already now). If Thai still only think to extort money from visas, then their monkey brain need to be operated. They will benifit much much more from give out visa free 90 days or more like all other top tourism nations including it's neighbours of Malaysia and Singapore. But I doubt these small monkey brains can analyze anything in a logic manner. Malaysia will always be a benificiary at the end.

[thedivezone]

There's this guy with wife and family doing time in Klong Prem Central Prison for mugging old ladies off their handbags. Could this happen to you?

Give me a break...overstaying is an offence and if you do it you have to face the music. Just like in any other country.

Wow, so overstaying your visa for one day is as serious an offence as mugging old ladies of their handbags. well i ain't taking you as my lawyer if i get into a scam.

Stevesuphan, thanks for the info, makes me feel a whole lot better, that !

Mike

[poorfarang]

Went to Ranong for my visa run 2 days ago. They posted a sign saying overstay is going to be 500 baht starting soon.

[Noel]

The Ranong 12 had already overstayed.

Whatever their intentions were thereafter is irrelevant: they had already broken the law and no amount of hypothetical analysis can change that simple fact.

Geez....if this Pattaya boy had actually read what i had written!

According to well-informed sources in my home province ie....... (Thai people in the know of Thai Law) i learnt today that that "Yes' i was right, the Ranong 12 were probably not breaking the law and would have a good cause, in a court of law, if they wished to file for damages against the arresting officer and The Royal Thai Police.

There intentions thereafter is irrelevant well exactly....not! Before posting a comment it is recommended to read the post you wish to comment on first.

As i already wrote "It could be argued that........"

”…this Pattaya boy”? did indeed read your hypothetical nonsense.

Perhaps you do not understand the meaning of the word ‘hypothetical’?

I also wonder if you understand the meaning of the word ‘surrender’.

Please tell me how or why a person could/would ‘surrender’ themselves to the authorities if they had not broken the law?

What ‘could’ be argued, what the Police ‘could’ say, ‘if’ or what people had ‘probably’ done or not done are all matters of conjecture and therefore hypothetical.

Regardless, the basic fact is indisputable: the Ranong 12 had overstayed and had therefore broken the law.

The probability that had they made it to the border and only been fined for breaking the law versus being arrested and locked up for having broken the law does not even enter the equation: they had broken the law and that is all there is to it.

It really is such a simple concept to understand, yet for some reason you are unable to grasp it.

Were you dropped on your head as a child, perchance…?

[britainmal]

As mentioned in the link, if you have overstayed and can make it to the airport/border, there is usually no problem.

But as mentioned, if you are caught before getting there, even if you are on the way to the airport/border, you could be in for a world of hurt.

"it can be a very different story if you are stopped by the police beforehand for whatever reason and are found to have overstayed - no matter for how long."

In other words, even if your visa expired the day before, you could face jail, fines and deportation

Oh really, Show me the law where it states that.

[Noel]

As mentioned in the link, if you have overstayed and can make it to the airport/border, there is usually no problem.

But as mentioned, if you are caught before getting there, even if you are on the way to the airport/border, you could be in for a world of hurt.

"it can be a very different story if you are stopped by the police beforehand for whatever reason and are found to have overstayed - no matter for how long."

In other words, even if your visa expired the day before, you could face jail, fines and deportation

Oh really, Show me the law where it states that.

Hopefully one of the Ranong 12 is reading this thread. I should imagine every one of them could quote the precise statute.

[Ronpang]

Oh really, Show me the law where it states that.

let me show you where, it is in the officer's pocket.

[HarryHacker]

As mentioned in the link, if you have overstayed and can make it to the airport/border, there is usually no problem.

But as mentioned, if you are caught before getting there, even if you are on the way to the airport/border, you could be in for a world of hurt.

"it can be a very different story if you are stopped by the police beforehand for whatever reason and are found to have overstayed - no matter for how long."

In other words, even if your visa expired the day before, you could face jail, fines and deportation

Oh really, Show me the law where it states that.

....pissing in the wind springs to mind.

[fatter than harry]

At least we're closer to establishing whether it was harsh or not.

Oh, wait...

[khall64au]

FREE AT LAST!

Visa runners released after four nights of fear

RANONG: “The Ranong 12”, a group of 12 foreign tourists arrested on the morning of February 8 for overstaying their visas, were finally set free on the morning of Sunday, February 12.

During their five-day ordeal they were forced to spend two nights trying to sleep on dirty police cell floors and two more nights locked up on buses during overnight journeys to and from Bangkok, where they were sent to be processed for deportation.

Among the detainees, who included British, South Korean, German, Vietnamese, French, Italian and Swedish nationals, the maximum overstay was just six days.

The detainees were eventually spared deportation from Bangkok following successful negotiations between their embassies and top Immigration officials in the capital. They were then returned, still under detention, to Ranong, from where they were finally allowed to depart the country under expulsion orders.

They then re-entered the country as free men and women on new tourist visas.

Here’s a diary of what happened:

DAY 1: WEDNESDAY. The nightmare started when a team of six Highway Police and Tourist Police officers waved over the well-known “Big Bus”, an air-conditioned double-decker bus that makes daily “visa runs” to Ranong.

The bus had reached Kapoe District, just 40 kilometers from the Ranong Immigration office, when it was pulled over and its passengers checked for visas and permit-to-stay stamps. The 12 passengers who had overstayed were then separated from the other 26 passengers on board, who were allowed to continue on their visa run.

The 12 were forced to squat in the back of a police truck, and taken through the midday heat with sirens blaring to the Immigration office in Ranong. There, the group spent an hour in the parking lot before being returned to Kapoe, where they were locked up together in a single Kapoe District Police Station cell to await a hearing at the Ranong Provincial Courthouse.

DAY 2: THURSDAY. Jutarat Payonchart, an employee of Phenpet Co Ltd, which runs the visa run service, informed the Gazette of the arrest. Speaking from the Ranong courthouse in the afternoon, she said she felt police had overreacted in incarcerating the visa runners.

“Why did they have to keep them overnight in a cell? These aren’t illegal aliens trying to hide out in the country,” she said.

Speaking from his prison cell, one of the detainees, 31-year-old Australian Chris Taylor told the Gazette: “On Tuesday I went to [Phuket] Immigration and said, ‘This is the last day of my visa, it expires tomorrow, what should I do?’ and they said, ‘Do a visa run tomorrow and pay a 200-baht overstay [fine].’

“That’s exactly what I [was doing], but then we get pulled over by the Tourist Police and Highway Police and they make a huge problem for us,” he said.

Justifying the arrests, Pol Maj Songproad Sirikul, the new head of the Ranong Tourist Police, told the Gazette that his office had received a report that a business was assisting illegal aliens by bringing them to Burma. He said he ordered his men to check into this and, when they did, it turned out to be true.

“The police arrested them because they broke the law,” he said, while strenuously denying allegations that the arresting officers asked for 5,000 baht from each tourist in exchange for letting them go.

“I think that’s impossible. I can guarantee that Tourist Police officers did not ask for money because we are not in trouble [financially] and I constantly remind them to not do that.”

The group spent the night trying to sleep on the floor in a cell at the Ranong Muang District Police Station.

DAY 3: FRIDAY. The Gazette again contacts Chris Taylor, who is still in custody and has just learned he is to be deported.

“I can’t believe what has happened. They want to send us to the Bangkok Detention Center, from where they will deport us to our home countries – all because of a one-day overstay [in my case].

It was our second night sleeping on the dirty floor, with mosquitoes. I am black and brown from dirt.”

He said the group members had been led to believe they would be released after paying 1,000-baht fines at Ranong Court. That didn’t happen.

“The public prosecutor told us that if we just admitted to the Court what we did and paid a 1,000-baht fine, they would let us go to Immigration and we could complete our visa trip. We paid, but when we got to Immigration they fingerprinted us and said, ‘You’re being deported – immediately’.”

The Australian said he felt betrayed. “We sent money for the tsunami problem. We like the Thai people and want to visit – and then we got s**t on. We are part of one of their tours, where everyone makes money. We spend money in Phuket, we want to stay here. It’s good for the economy, good for everyone. And now we are just being s**t on.

“We’ve been treated like animals, sleeping on the ground. I’ve never been locked up before in all my life. It’s absolutely disgusting. You cannot trust the Tourist Police anymore. They are supposed to be on our side, helping us. But now they have gone against us and made a big problem for us.”

Pol Capt Weerachai Phugkesorn of the Ranong Immigration Office told the Gazette, “It’s true that if people arrive at our office and have overstayed their visas we just fine them 200 baht per day of overstay. But it was [another police division] that arrested them, not us. If they hadn’t been arrested, we would have just fined them as usual.

“The case went to court, where the judge rendered a decision. They were sent to us by the police and we are just following the provisions of the Immigration Act by transferring them to Bangkok for deportation,” Capt Weerachai said.

After being kept in the cell for most of the day, in the evening the 12 were locked into two minibuses supplied by Penphet Visa Run Co for the long overnight journey to the Immigration Detention Center in Bangkok. Although exhausted, most find it impossible to sleep.

DAY 4: SATURDAY. The detainees arrive at the Immigration Detention Center, where they spend much of the day in cells, desperately trying to contact their embassies.

Many have still been unable to sleep and find the food they are given inedible.

At about 11 pm, they are again locked up in the minibuses and begin the overnight return journey to Ranong. They will not be deported from Bangkok after all, but from Ranong.

DAY 5: SUNDAY. The buses return to Ranong Immigration, from where the detainees are finally put on a boat and “deported” to Burma around 9 am. After crossing over to Victoria Point (Kaw Thuang) and getting their entry and exits stamps, they return to Ranong Immigration, where they are issued new visas.

On February 14, Janpen Munsa, partner in the Penphet Visa Run Co, told the Gazette that the arrests were unprecedented in the company’s six-year history and had hurt her business, as former customers now feared arrest if they used it.

“The company is registered as a visa run business, but they arrested [our customers] – using rude words and bad behavior,” she said, adding that hers is just one of three companies providing the service.

“Why was our vehicle pulled over and our overstayed customers singled out for prosecution?” she asked.

Anchalee Praphut, owner of Angelina Travel and Tour Agency, who arranged the visa tour for one of the overstays, said the whole episode had sullied the reputation for the Tourist Police – adding that they had to plead with the police to allow two of the group who were diabetic to be given insulin shots, which they had to pay for themselves.

Ranong Governor Mekin Methawikul, who was informed of the issue by K. Anchalee, told the Gazette that he had sent a formal request to the head of the Ranong Tourist Police for a report about the incident.

He said that the Tourist Police Chief told him that there had been cases of foreigners using the visa runs to smuggle ya bah (methamphetamine) into the country from Burma, so his staff needed to check foreigners on visa runs carefully.

As Tourist Police do not have the authority to stop moving vehicles, they called on the Highway Police for assistance.

Another bus on a visa run that followed shortly thereafter was allowed to pass by because police did not want to create traffic congestion, the Governor quoted Maj Songproad as saying.

The Governor added that, as the arresting officers were low-level police, it was unrealistic to expect them to be able to communicate well in English.

“It should be the tour company staff who speak English who should have explained to the tourists about what was going on,” he said.

“I admit this type of thing has never before happened in Ranong and I have told the Tourist Police to prevent this kind of thing from happening [again]. Still, I think the officers did their jobs according to procedure,” he said.

EDITORIAL: Phuket Gazette

The Ranong 12: overstayers caught in the crossfire?

Here’s the law: Stay in Thailand past the end of your permit to stay and you have broken the law. In fact, in any country in the world, that’s the case.

But Thailand has long had a relaxed attitude to this law. Certainly, if police raid your Patong hotel and find that you have overstayed your visa, you are in trouble.

On the other hand, if you go to Immigration and, in effect, confess that you have overstayed, then the result has always been a slap-on-the-wrist fine of 200 baht per day of overstay.

In the wake of the arrest of 12 people by Tourist Police and Highway Police on February 8, Ranong Immigration reiterated that its slap-on-the-wrist policy remains unchanged. Anyone making it that far will be fined and allowed to make the hop into Burma and back again.

But anyone doing the run to Ranong should now be aware that, like wildebeest on migration crossing Kenya’s Mara River, there are crocodiles waiting for them. Some will get eaten.

This is plainly not a nationwide drive by Immigration to crack down on overstays. Nor is it a nationwide drive by the Tourist Police and Highway Police. It is very much a local affair.

Just what is behind it is a matter for conjecture. The visa run bus company has alleged that the police were soliciting bribes in return for freedom. The police deny this. Indeed, the major in charge of the Tourist Police told the Gazette, “I can guarantee that the Tourist Police officers did not ask for money because we are not in trouble [financially] and I constantly remind them to not do that.”

Others have theorized that the “Ranong 12 “ got caught in a battle between competing “visa run” companies. But no hard evidence has surfaced to support this theory.

There will undoubtedly be those who will argue that “the law is the law”. But anyone familiar with Thailand will know that on-the-ground interpretation of the law is more important than the word of the law.

Although this attitude may often be convenient for those who push the boundaries of Thai law, it also means that there is no consistency. Tomorrow’s interpretation may be radically different from today’s.

While this particular local interpretation of immigration law pertains, those who find they have overstayed their visas are advised to fly out of the country. Thus far, neither the Tourist Police nor the Highway Police appear to be stopping aircraft.

- The Editor

[NordicMan]

I think that Thailand is quite kind to people who overstay a little compared to other countries like Singapore, Australia, etc.

Not really.

I overstayed in Singapore once. Arrived there by plane, got a 30 day visa. After a few days, one of my friends invited me for a daytrip to Johor Bahru in Malaysia. Had to stamp out and in at the immigration, of course. What i didn't notice was that my new visa to SG was only 14 days. I didn't think more about it until staff in the hotel I stayed in noticed my visa had expired 3 days ago and kicked me out of their hotel. That was a Friday. All I did was to go down to the immigration office on Monday morning with an SG friend and say I'm sorry, misunderstanding etc. No problem, got a 14 day extension immediately.

As previously written, I also overstayed in Australia, by 5 months - I was a full-time student and extended my studies by one semester. I thought the University would handle the immigration issues, as they were involved when I arrived there in the first place. Of course it was my fault for not doing anything about the visa. As I walked past the immigration in the airport, i was taken aside. Some discussion, I explained why and what had happened - some stern remarks and I was told I was not welcome for the next 3 years. Nothing else.

-nm

[khall64au]

Not welcome for the next 3 years .... after spending how many tens of thousands of dollars on education fees and contributing how many years cost of living expenses?

Same same Thailand... the govt knows that long-term tourists spend vast amounts of various currencies here. Time to re-think "long-term tourism policies". Methinks!!!!!

[NordicMan]

Not welcome for the next 3 years .... after spending how many tens of thousands of dollars on education fees and contributing how many years cost of living expenses?

Same same Thailand... the govt knows that long-term tourists spend vast amounts of various currencies here. Time to re-think "long-term tourism policies". Methinks!!!!!

I reckon I spent A$75,000 (US$55k) while I was there, money I brought in from my home country. Anyway, with 192 (or so) countries in the world, there's still a few left where I'm not banned.

-nm

[dannishgung]

As i post before, Thai is the only nation along with communist China that do not give out 90 days or up visa free on arrival in the top 20 tourism nations. Because they are so short sighted so lusty to extort visa fees from travelers. And also the fourth world mentality of law enforcement.

I can guarantee this kind of horror story when spread to other countries, tourism in Thailand will down by another 5%, the crime agaist the tourists have taken serious damages already recently. I feel personally many long term stayers are not coming back, my many long time Thai regular friends are not coming back.

I have overstyed in Brasil 3 times, all three times too lazy to go down to policia federal for extension, visa free for 90 days on arrival and then need to get 90 day extension at policia federal.

First time I exit from Sao Paulo Guarulhos airport, overstayed about 50 days, the immigration officer did not even care and stamped me out in 1 second.

2nd time, overstay about 60 days, exit from Bahia airport to Danmark, the immigration officer asked me why I stayed so long, I smiled and said: I love Brasil. She stamped me out with a smile.

3rd time, again from Sao Paulo Guarulhos, overstayed about 60 days, immigration officer joked to me when he looked at all my Brasilian stamps, and many long stays and jokingly said you must be in

love with the Brasilian women. I said for sure then stamped me out.

So I don't see the point of getting extension at the policia federal. Brasil is so visa friendly and so nice to long term stayers. But on the other hand, Thais have done everything they can to destroy their only source of income-tourism.

Edited February 20, 2006 by dannishgung

[Khun Jean]

Any country will have your arse in a sling for overstaying, in Singapore you can even get caned for it before they chuck you out.

Not any country. If you overstay your visa in Canada, they send a notice for you to appear at a hearing. Failure to appear at the hearing may result in another notice being sent out, possibly with a non-offensive warning.

If you still decide to not show up, they may put out a deportation order for you. They may even convince a judge to issue a warrant for your arrest, but don't worry, they won't come looking to arrest you. (Apparently, Canada has over 13,000 outstanding deportation orders. Problems is, the authorities have no idea where any of those people are !)

They wait until you are arrested for commiting a crime. If you are convicted, you may get deported after getting out of jail, but your lawyer will probably be able to squash that and get you out on bail.

Once out on bail, you are home free, as once again, they won't actually come looking for you ! As long as you don't commit another crime, no worries !

Even if you are one of the very few unlucky ones that they actually do manage to get rid of, it's still not a problem. Simply go to the embassy the day you get back to your home country, apply for another visa, hop on the next flight back to Canada and viola ! Set for life !

One character actually played this game for 17 years ! Even after being convicted of arranging a million dollar credit card scam. After having been caught with numerous fake passports in a people smuggling ring, and after having been deported at least once already. He just keeps coming back and flouting the system.

So as you can see, some 1st world "developed" nations are far more progressive in their dealings with foreign nationals

My god. Now Canada is of my list of respectful countries. With so many 'may' 's. Does Canada put any offenders in jail, or only if they are kind enough to oblige.

I sense some french ancestory.

[kasi]

It sure seems the authorities tried to backpedal here some to save some face by deporting them in Ranong. Then they were immediately allowed back into Thailand.

If strict letter of law were followed they would have chilled their heels in the Bangkok immigration jail until a plane ticket abroad was forthcoming.

I think an element of fair play was at work.

You don't want to rub peoples(Thai peoples) noses in their own mistakes. It's still their country (more or less) after all.

[Stephen Cleary]

It reads like there are a lotta members here justifying and siding by the police on this issue.

Didnt realize ther were so many law-abiding Farangs in Thailand!

Just hope that all these law-abiding Farangs here refrain from breaking all the other laws which could be 'brought into force' by any arresting officer at anytime.

Prostitution is illegal: so i hope that these law-abiding Farang members of TV refrain from using any such service.

Drinking: There are set times now for purchasing alcohol, hope our law-abiding members adhere to that law too.

Visas: Hope our law-abiding members adhere strictly to 'what visa they are on'.

Farang Ladies: It is illegal for a lady to enter an entertainmet venue alone ie..bar, disco, pub etc...

If any members of TV have broken the Thai law in anyway, then they have no right to criticize the Ranong 12 for their naivety.

Otherwise, it is called 'Double Standards'

Edited February 21, 2006 by stevesuphan

[Sing_Sling]

As i post before, Thai is the only nation along with communist China that do not give out 90 days or up visa free on arrival in the top 20 tourism nations. Because they are so short sighted so lusty to extort visa fees from travelers. And also the fourth world mentality of law enforcement.

I can guarantee this kind of horror story when spread to other countries, tourism in Thailand will down by another 5%, the crime agaist the tourists have taken serious damages already recently. I feel personally many long term stayers are not coming back, my many long time Thai regular friends are not coming back.

I have overstyed in Brasil 3 times, all three times too lazy to go down to policia federal for extension, visa free for 90 days on arrival and then need to get 90 day extension at policia federal.

So, danishgung, you count the PRC as one of the top 20 tourist destinations? Please share with us how you arrived at this statement.

So, you can guarantee that tourism will slump by another 5% because of this 'horror story'. Are you aware that the vast majority of tourists don't stay anywhere near 30 days? So, why should a bunch of people that LIVE in Thailand and are penalised for breaking the law have such an impact on potential tourists in Denmark, Germany, GB, Italy . . .

You think mightly highly of yourself, but not of anything esle as you mention that you were smply too lazy to extend your visa. This is how much respect you have for the law of a place that you are visiting? Nice attitude. Any nation would be proud to have you as their guest.

Ah, you talk so glowingly about Malaysia but know absolutely sweet FA about it. Malaysia is riddled with problems, racial, economic, social and criminal - you just have to go there once to see that, spend some time there, talk with the locals and look at CRIME STATISTICS!!!

Seriously, you are talking crap.

Nordic Man, Australia thanks you for leaving our shores having parted with so much money, and don't let the door slap your arse on the way out.

Mate, ignorance is not an excuse - you thought the University would have sorted out your visa???? Do you hand the University your passport???? Did the stamp get changed????

I simply cannot believe that breaking the law through sheer lazyness (the Danish Dude), Ignorance and Sloth (Nordic, could be DK, N, S, SF or even a ....dottir) or whatever reason (with the 12) is so easily minimised.

There are no excuses, aside from some tabled here in relation to medical emergencies, for breaking a law that is clearly defined by a stamp in your passport. Does it not say when it runs out? Would this not give you a hint as to when it should be renewed?

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[kasi]

I feel personally many long term stayers are not coming back, my many long time Thai regular friends are not coming back.

I personally hope the door doesn't hit them on the a$$ on the way out!